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Is it hard for others when your realization is that death is final?

Draic said:
How do you know what happens to a dog after it dies ?
Have you seen through its eyes ?
Just because it has the label animal attached to it does not mean its consciousness goes on , in whatever form or way that it might.
Your ASSUMING that death is final , I just don't see what evidence your basing this assumption on.

In my opinion people believe in the soul based on their experience of it , ie. having left their body.Thats what my belief in it is based on.
You are assuming that your physical brain is the be all and end all.

Open your mind to the possibilities of other forms of existence beyond the physical.
If we can exist in a physical sense , then surely we can exist in other forms.
If this strand of existence is possible then why not others ?

IMHO the fact we exist at all proves anythings possible , we have already made the giant leap from nothing to something.

Based on scientific discussions and articles that I read online and in journals throughout the years. I believe that there could be other dimensions, or even other universes. A facet of existence that's beyond our own universe or 'world'. Yet, I can't imagine why humans on one planet would die and then somehow magically be transported to a different place. Our universe, as far as we know, is based on a set of laws. These laws cannot be broken in our universe, as far as we know. Therefore, we can't die and then have something fly out of our bodies on to another world.

It's been established in science that a person is made up of chemical impulses, atoms, etc. But these chemical impulses, atoms, etc.. are obviously not 'human' on their own. Otherwise, everything around us would be 'human'.

The "evidence" that death is final. Is all around us when living things die.
 
Sorry, actually one valid point that I didn't mention in my last reply goes back to what Acidfiend said earlier...

That humans have a habit of thinking of themselves as being separate from the rest of the universe. When actually, everything in the universe is all one and connected. Humans could not exist without there being other parts of the universe, without there even being water on this planet!

So, my rebuttal above does not factor in this point.
 
I believe in life after death, but the idea of oblivion is not frightening to me. It used to be, but not anymore. If I'm right, then it's all good. If I'm wrong, then I'll never know about it. The loss of "who I am" doesn't really concern me; if death is the end, then I should fear as much for my death as I do for an ant's, because my life ain't worth so much in the final analysis.

To rephrase a line in The Devil's Advocate: Life is like a bag of fucking bricks; all you have to do is set it down. That may sound cynical, but it's my POV.

Edit: I'm 25.
 
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EXPERIMENT:

I'm curious if people would mind stating their age when they post in this discussion. I'm curious to see if there's some correlation between 'fearing death' or 'not fearing death' - and a person's age. Not that age is the only factor, but it's an important one.
 
To me the evidence that the death of the body is not the end , as i said above , comes from my consciousness leaving my body.I have expereinced this as have many others.You say you see living things all around you dying .Which brings me back to my original point .You have not expereinced death yet and have yet to find out if life does go on.You have not experienced the process of death and do not know what happens after, simply because you have not passed away yet.
My beliefs are based on my personal expereinces not objective observations of the death of other things whose existence and death you are not experiencing and therfore can't comment on with any authority.
 
Re: EXPERIMENT:

applesbliss said:
I'm curious if people would mind stating their age when they post in this discussion. I'm curious to see if there's some correlation between 'fearing death' or 'not fearing death' - and a person's age. Not that age is the only factor, but it's an important one.

I am 21 years old. So who knows maybe I will start fearing death when I get old. But the fact of the matter is that I used to fear death when I was younger. As I formed ideas about the nature of existance in the recent years I do not fear dying. Not saying that I can override my instincts in the immediate life threatening situation, but when I think about it I am not afraid of losing everything that I now know, even if there is absolutely no existance after death, what is there to be afraid of if you are not there?

What are we really? Just a collection of matter and energy interacting. But its encompassed in a vessel that is our body. Think of it this way, we are like a cup of water, and death is the cup breaking. The water spills out and the ceramic shatters but in essense it is still the same thing, it just changed form. Our ego's only function is for survival, we need it to keep ourselves from harm. Many times when I experienced the dissolution of the ego, I realized that without it I feel liberated in certain aspects.

I am not sure if this sounded like senseless ramble, but I am tired as hell so I apologize if I did not express myself clearly.;)
 
18 and LOVE life !

death??? banana??? rock ????

LIFE !! ashhharhharhhhahrh
 
fearing death ?? i don't understand it so i can't really comment

i think when you beging to LIVE LIFE .... you don't really think about death in a fearful way

its more the awe of the unkown

WHATEVER WILL BE >....(SURELY) .... WILL BE
 
death is just an illusion.

edit: i am 22 years old.
 
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I'm 24 and my ideas are very close to Acidfiends. I'm not afraid of death, but I am afraid of losing my life before I am ready, if that makes sense.

The only real difference is that I don't see life as a restrictive cage. I think that our different lives are the great spirit's (or energy force if you like) way of expressing itself and entertaining itself. So enjoy your life and the experience of it, for it is brief in the great scheme of things and you will only have a short time to be who you are now.
 
Beatlebot said:
I'm 24 and my ideas are very close to Acidfiends. I'm not afraid of death, but I am afraid of losing my life before I am ready, if that makes sense.

The only real difference is that I don't see life as a restrictive cage. I think that our different lives are the great spirit's (or energy force if you like) way of expressing itself and entertaining itself. So enjoy your life and the experience of it, for it is brief in the great scheme of things and you will only have a short time to be who you are now.

I agree. For some reason I excluded this, so I'm glad you brought it up. In my DMT experiences, the entities on the other side always seemed VERY interested (almost obsessive) in my body and my emotions, which clued me in to the importance of being alive. This life you live, that we all live, is the ultimate gift to our souls. The fact that, on top of the blessing of being living beings, that we are HUMAN beings, is even greater reason to be thankful every moment of your life. Our souls have beat odds you cannot possibly imagine, so be thankful that you get to have the experience. This may be the only chance you get.
 
It took me a long time to get over the fact that one day i would die and taht would be the end. But after I did, life was much better. Again I'd recomend reading "That to study philosophy is to learn to die" by montaigne. text
 
^^That's a philosophy about not learning philosphy8o

Whoah! What are you doing to my mind?8o You T&A guys are too much!
 
To me there are to things here: 1) dying and 2) death its self.

I am 42 years old. Today, compared to when I was 18 years old, I am eating better, excersising better, using drugs much more conservatively and responsibly, managing stress better, and just in general doing much more to take care of my health. Yet despite all of these efforts I'm just not as healthy as I was when I was 18. Why? Becuase I'm dying, thats why.

Dying is the natural and inevitable process that steers us towards death its self. Whether we are aware of it or not, we've been dying since the day we were born. There is both a physical and spiritual aspect to this process of dying. The physical aspect is our aging bodies and the second law of thermodynamics which we observe in the world around us. The spiritual process is the intellectual/emotional process of understanding and accepting what is happening.

To me its seems the process of dying also serves to teach us about death its self. And if anything it all it has taught me that there is really nothing at all to fear in death its self. I mean with "I" not existing, what do "I" have to be afraid of? But the process of dying concerns me. The process of dying can be very painful, and not just physically but emotionally as well. But it doesn't have to be. It really depends on our selves whether we suffer or not, IMHO.

So the question for me is not so much about the finality of death its self but more along the lines of how to die gracefully.
 
gloggawogga said:
To me there are to things here: 1) dying and 2) death its self.

I am 42 years old. Today, compared to when I was 18 years old, I am eating better, excersising better, using drugs much more conservatively and responsibly, managing stress better, and just in general doing much more to take care of my health. Yet despite all of these efforts I'm just not as healthy as I was when I was 18. Why? Becuase I'm dying, thats why.

Dying is the natural and inevitable process that steers us towards death its self. Whether we are aware of it or not, we've been dying since the day we were born. There is both a physical and spiritual aspect to this process of dying. The physical aspect is our aging bodies and the second law of thermodynamics which we observe in the world around us. The spiritual process is the intellectual/emotional process of understanding and accepting what is happening.

To me its seems the process of dying also serves to teach us about death its self. And if anything it all it has taught me that there is really nothing at all to fear in death its self. I mean with "I" not existing, what do "I" have to be afraid of? But the process of dying concerns me. The process of dying can be very painful, and not just physically but emotionally as well. But it doesn't have to be. It really depends on our selves whether we suffer or not, IMHO.

So the question for me is not so much about the finality of death its self but more along the lines of how to die gracefully.

Wow. Thank you.
 
gloggawogga said:
So the question for me is not so much about the finality of death its self but more along the lines of how to die gracefully.

This statement begs for much discussion. From reading this thread and also the "How would you like to die?" thread. It seems apparent that the last thing many people would want is to die 'suddenly'. In that case, using "dieing" as you choose to use in place of "life". It hurts to imagine for anyone's death to entail being lost forever in a 'sudden' car crash or from a bullet. That would be tragic because it's sudden and the method would be despised. To be lost suddenly with being unprepared or without getting what we want. By far, I would much rather experience "dieing" (how you put it) than to not experience dieing at all. It seems besides death being final, the other thing that some of us fear of death is that it could occur anytime in an instant.

I wish sometimes that there could be some kind of universal guarantee or even an IOU that would grant anyone the opportunity to live to be 95 years old. That would be great, heh. I learn a heck of a lot as I grow and change. I'm sure that everyone does. We can not learn (even from a book) without having the opportunity to experience -- experience itself.
 
I guess what I'm saying is that we are already dead, and how we live out our life is just how we go about accepting this. If you die quickly, you will have to take it in all at once, and it may be too painful to digest. OTOH if you die slowly, you can take it in slowly, and that my be painful too. Of course keep in mind, that subjective time is not the same as objective time. As with time dilation on strong psychedelics a few moments can stretch out to a very very long time. Maybe one with a heart attack dies as slowly, subjectively, as another with cancer.

Once, when I was 20 years old, I had plan for the rest of my life. The plan was that as soon as I got back to the college campus that I lived at and got a chance to do so without anyone noticing, I was going to go to a tall dormatory building on campus, jump off the balcony, and aim for pavement head first to my death. And that would be that. I would be done with my life. Obviously my plan for suicide didn't get carried out. All I can say is that while I was on my way to killing my self, something deeply profound came to me. And in that moment of realization, I saw that wasn't ready to face all that there is in dying while also realizing a deeper aspect of my 'self' that gave me reasons to want to live.

But the really ironic thing was the underlying reason for my wanting to kill my self. I wasn't happy with my 'life'. Why? I was getting to the part of my life where I had to grow up, realize my own limitations, the limitations of life, and its mortality. It was time for me to start learning how to get over my self. I think I can see now that by killing my self, I would have been jumping head first into the middle of what it was I was trying to run away from. In a way, I would say that time is an illusion that our minds create to keep from having to accept eternity all at once. And experience, that is just what time is filled with. Thus experience leads to the experience of dying, that is, a future that promises nothing, nothing at all. And we learn to cope with that.

Of course, there is no reason for us not to accept eternity for what it is. We are already dead. By accepting this, we are free.
 
anybody ever played to "death" when he was a young child? A game to experiment "an aspect of life" adults seemed to worry about and wouldn't talk about spontaneously as if they would rather want to forget about it...if I have been playing this "curiosity" game as a child, then I guess death isn't that bad because that means that a young child (someone with no rational fears) doesn't think to death in other ways that "a part of life". As said previously, the problem in life isn't suffering or death, the problem is fear that make us confused and keep us from seeing things clearly.
 
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