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Is it hard for others when your realization is that death is final?

Death isn't final, it's merely the passing stage for the transition into the next life.
 
I know a pastor who has been next to many people on their deathbeds. On several occasions, the people said they saw Jesus standing beside them or over them just before they died.

For me personally, I feel there's dimensions that transcend our limited human perception and we're being a bit close-minded to dismiss the possibility that we have a soul and that it lives for eternity. This is a classic reason Christianity gets attacked: the resurrection proves there is life beyond the grave and our physical death isn't the end of the story.
 
Kandy K said:
Death isn't final, it's merely the passing stage for the transition into the next life.
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.... and then the next life and the next and the next...... doesnt that frighten you, that it will just keep on going and going? FOREVER??? O
 
^^its better than just not existing for ever and ever....
 
A few things to consider relevant to this discussion:

1. For those whose position is based on science, and the brain just being neurons triggering, and our body and its functionality just being the result of chemical reactions, you must also consider that our understanding of this science is still no more than interpretation and processing of perceptions. You cannot get around the assertion that everything that we claim to be 'real' is just a result of our perception of it, and that for the individual, the only thing that really is is that which is experienced. This is probably not a new argument to most of you, but I'm interested in how you get around that.

2. Based off of this, we cannot disprove that we are no more than a brain or some entity sitting in a beaker being given stimuli that we receive as 'perception' and from which we have created in our minds what we call this 'reality' (again, an old argument, and quite tired -- see the Matrix or skepticism philosophy).

3. Here's where it gets tricky, and I haven't completely got my head around this point myself, but here goes: Once we accept (and we must) that all that is, for an individual, is that which that individual perceives and experiences, then the notion of the individual ceasing to exist becomes an impossibility. Well, I guess I can say that this is only true for me, because though your posts are all nice to read I must accept that I cannot prove that any of you truly exist. The end of me would mean the end of everything because I would not be there to experience it... but there must be something. Furthermore, my death can only be realized if I experience it happening AND having happened. Just as you do not realize that you have lost consciousness until you have regained it (tho you may still be sleeping). Although 'nothing' happened to you while sleeping, that 'nothing' does not exist until you realize it.

4. From this idea, I have to accept that something must be experienced, by me, after my death. The antithesis is inconceivable, it is like dividing by zero.

5. And finally, many of the posts I have read have ignored the fact that they are confining existence to the dimensions that we think we understand in this reality. Most blaring is the notion of time. People talk about a 'boring eternity' and 'living forever'. Eternity and forever are concepts which require the passage of time. Though it is admittedly difficult to do, if one ceases to think of death and the next 'life' as something that exists in 'time', the concept of that life existing becomes easier to accept.

Anyhow, just my thoughts. In summary, when this body dies, our being must experience SOMETHING (anything besides nothing), though I would not assume to know what that something is.
 
TReNDY said:
.... and then the next life and the next and the next...... doesnt that frighten you, that it will just keep on going and going? FOREVER??? O
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No, because chances are I won't remember my previous lives until I've reached a certain point. I can't imagine death as being anything bad.
 
i have, for the first time, just read this thread from start to finish, and i must say, it is probably the most fascinating thread i have ever read on BL.

i am still trying to absorb everything i just read, so i cant really comment at the moment on the issues at hand due to being extremely overwhelmed!
maybe later after i "chew on things" for a bit.

excellent topic though.
 
Acidfiend - wow. i agree with u 100%.. i cant help but be afraid of death tho.. no matter how many times i try and convince myself that i shouldnt be afraid it doesnt work..
i still cant get around that this whole existence is in the end absolutely pointless...
but reading what u had to say was literally mind blowing.. thanks for that
 
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Sorry to bump this thread but I just realised tonight.....

I don't care.

If I die, it's not going to matter anyway. My ego as I know it, is gone. I'm not going to be "stressed" about dying or anything like that. I'll just be dead. Whether it's an afterlife or not.

I think much of our angst about being dead stems from how we feel NOW about dying. When we're dead it won't fucking matter, will it? All our emotion is based around the ego of human living as we experience it now.

If there's an afterlife... Boooyeah! Sweet! We'll love it and be glad for it.

But if not, we won't know any different. We'll just disintegrate into the tapestry of time. And that's not going to be a concern, because we won't have an ego, a personality, to be concerned about it. We'll just.... be nothing.

For me, if that's it... that's it.
 
I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone else...
But there are two really good books, off the top of my pointed head, that deal with these issues. Both are fiction, but the ideas are universal.

1. God's Debris, by Scott Adams (yes, the 'Dilbert guy)

2. The Footprints of God, by Greg Iler

Check them out. If nothing else, they might comfort the convinced, or amuse the unsure. Either way, it's good to simply think about this stuff.
 
This seems like insanity.

How does a creature not fear death? If you don't fear death, then you shouldn't fear anything. Every action is guided by fear of death (in addition to happiness). But pain is a warning signal. Too much pain could mean death, or incapacitation which would lead to death (decrease in amount of survival).

To not fear death would be to not fear pain would be to not fear anything. You would never hesitate, as you would not fear any consquences.

So, either: (a) people are fooling themselves and say they don't fear death when they have other fears existing, (b) people have undergone temporary, or perhaps permanent, insanity as they don't fear death, something that goes against biology and the wiring of ourselves completely, or (c) someone has truly accepted death and has no fears nor hesitations.

Edit: although (b) and (c) are equal. I'm wondering if there's any difference...

Ever wonder why religion and the afterlife were created? It's evolutionarily smart and safe. Satiate the people and don't let them be swallowed in their own fear.
 
B and C are NOT equal. However B and C often compliment each other. There are definately sain, rational, "non-crazies" out there that have truly accepted death and has no fears nor hesitations
 
sexyanon2 said:

To not fear death would be to not fear pain would be to not fear anything. You would never hesitate, as you would not fear any consquences.
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To not fear death is a different thing to wanting to induce it prematurely ;)

Or experience pain in this life. Experiencing pain would be a bad thing. It hurts. Death, on the other hand, can not be a bad thing after you're dead because you won't fucking know anything about it! :D

I don't want it to happen and will do all I can to avoid it, doesn't mean I *fear* it. I don't particularly like curried sausages and will avoid at all costs, I don't fear them.
 
Not fearing death has very little to do with "never hesitating" or fearing or any consequences. Cause you can do A LOT of shit without hesitation or fear, and not die...and still be afraid of death.
 
Dexter - can every action have no fear nor hesitation attached to it? (or rather before it occurs?) What you're saying is true. But you're working from the reverse of what I'm saying. From no fear of death comes no fear in life. No fear in life does not necessarily mean no fear of death.

SLM - Do you fear anything? Any hesitation? Where does fear stem from? What's the core root of fear?

Pain. Mental or physical. We don't want it. What does pain mean? It's a warning sign. From what? For death. All pain felt is for a means of survival. Putting your hand on a turned on stove will result in extreme pain in your hand, or a burning sensation. This pain is to tell you to back away from the stove because it hurts you and reduces your likelihood of survival. It also becomes a lesson. Pain is a bad thing, like you said. And we do not want to experience it. That's why we hesitate and don't take dangerous actions that could possibly lead to pain.

We create fantasies about death. Afterlife. Non-existance. Or, even what you said.
 
I fear lots of things. But then we'd be having a discussion about fear, not death ;) So I'll just stick to the subject.

If you're implying all hesitation to put oneself in harms way stems from a fear of death, you're right, I agree that's probably the motive. But I think we're talking at cross purposes here.

All I'm saying is that I don't fear what comes AFTER death. I don't fear being in that state, because it's not going to matter. I would fear being stuck on a desert island, or locked in a cupboard for the rest of my life, because my ego and human emotions would have to live with that. But the state of death is hardly going to cause me any distress because "I" (as in the ego I consider as me) won't BE there! :)

Who knows, it might even be better! It's either going to be something, or nothing. If it's nothing, I won't know it anyway.

Now fearing the actual act of dying is a different thing. Yeah, that scares me. I don't want to die. I don't want to suffer. I want to preserve my life at all costs. But as for fearing what's on the other side of death, or fearing that NOTHINGNESS (if you're an atheist).... I see it as just a desperate grasp to have your life NOT not mean anything.

Fearing the nothingness and dwelling on that makes you think life is pointless. Well life is pointless. We're all gonna die. I think I just embraced that and it's kind of freeing :D
 
^exactly. I have a strong will to live: it's part of the way the body is wired. But I don't fear what death would be like. After all, I have no idea what it was like before I was born. Maybe the memories don't survive the transfer, or maybe it's just nothingness, but I don't remember it sucking. So it must not be that bad.
 
sexyanon2 said:
Dexter - can every action have no fear nor hesitation attached to it? (or rather before it occurs?) What you're saying is true. But you're working from the reverse of what I'm saying. From no fear of death comes no fear in life. No fear in life does not necessarily mean no fear of death.
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That's still not true. You can have no fear in death what so ever, and still be a pussy when it comes to physical torture.
 
Dexter, that seems contradictory.

You fear pain. What is pain? A warning signal. Warning signal for death. Too much pain would lead to less survival or death.

Pain-->Warning-->Less Survival-->Death

So you're saying that you fear the warning but not what the warning is telling you?

That's like if the Red Terror Alert for the US says: "Something unfathomable will happen to you if you open any door." So you're not afraid of something you can't comprehend, but you're just afraid of the Red Terror Alert itself?
 
Actually it's a quite easy concept to comprehend. Get off your highhorse and imagine if you were getting physically tortured yourself. Think of some of the worst possible forms of torture that humans can and DO to others. Eventually you would rather just want to die to end the pain..Death being a better option than feeling the endless pain of torture. Torture doens't have to have anything to do with death. That's why it's torture. Causing severe pain to someone without killing them....hence death is not even in the picture.
 
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