What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[user666]

...but usually 98 -99% is enough for any MDMA to be considered fire by everyone.

...unless the remaining 1% is Lofentanil.

 

[unodelacosa]

Ever tried MDMA with caffeine or amphetamine?

Sometimes MDMA is already mixed w/caffeine, just look at pill report websites. Caffeine potentiates MDMA but also adds to the neurotoxicity and cardiotoxicity, so I avoid combining the two if I can.

• Caffeine provokes adverse interactions with 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ‘ecstasy’) and related psychostimulants: mechanisms and mediators
• Association of caffeine to MDMA does not increase antinociception but potentiates adverse effects of this recreational drug
• Caffeine promotes hyperthermia and serotonergic loss following co-administration of the substituted amphetamines, MDMA ("Ecstasy") and MDA ("Love")
• Neurochemical and Neurotoxic Effects of MDMA (Ecstasy) and Caffeine After Chronic Combined Administration in Mice

Amphetamine has a similar effect, and I don't like to mix amps with rolls anyway – the amp tends to take over and I feel like I wasted the roll. The times I've tried either though, they didn't affect my coordination much if at all. And mind you, I'm still able to dance when I'm rolling, I'm just not as smooth and I feel off-balance a bit, though again, not enough to make me stop dancing if I want to dance. Really it kinda comes down to how hard I'm rolling which really boils down to dosage for yours truly. YMMV of course.

…combo with opiates or a bit booze.

Yeah they don't do much for me. I mean, different strokes & all that, but I'm not a big fan of drinking or recreational opiates, just a personal preference. Booze gives me headaches. Opiates constipate me. To modify MDMA's effects, I'd rather go w/GHB, PCP, or a key bump of K if a better disso isn't nearby.

I too find MDMA, especially dosed high a lot on the relaxing & melting & connecting but I ain’t a huge raver so that too is ofc personal preference.

I don't think you have to be a raver to experience that. But yeah MDMA's effects can seem paradoxical at times.

I still think using drug that’s already dissolved, even pure MDMA or equivalent in speed of dissolving in water can make a change, ofc not nearly as change of ROA but minutes can play a difference.

I agree that "minutes can play a difference". Certainly it can't hurt to dissolve your drug before ingestion. I know ppl who chew up their pills and claim it hits faster, but as pointed out: can't rule out placebo yet.

very hard presses compared to loose/chalky make some difference. I’ve noticed that very high dosed pills, usual in some parts of Europe tend to be very hard pills while “normal” about 120mg pills are usually not that hard…

It's easier to obtain micro-crystalline cellulose (MCC) in EU than it is in the US. MCC as a bonding agent + stearic acid as a lubricant + active ingredient + milling → single punch rotary tablet press = excellent tablets. So US clandestine chemists often resort to other, inferior bonding agents with lower compression ratios of inactive-to-active ingredients. This results in large, crumbly pills and the emergence of so-called "double-stack" and "triple-stack" pressies during the late 90s / early 2000s.

inactive ingredients in pill do make difference as they do with pharmaceuticals and make some people think some generic brand is stronger or better when in fact just absorbs at a bit different rate.

In theory, regulators are supposed to catch discrepancies between a pharmaceutical drug product and its generics. They specifically look at this portion of it as it's often different from the original product in an effort to shave a few more cents off of each dose. In reality, I'm sure this process is far from perfect and probably has an appreciable fault tolerance.

MDMA of as low as 65% purity isn’t unknown on the market as xtals and less so in pills. Usually anything beyond 85% is considered very good stuff. Stuff that’s really in high 90% is more of a rarity than a common thing.
Stated is correct for some periods and some places but I’m pretty sure stuff of exceptional purity still isn’t a norm in most places outside specific, not so big circles. With that in mind I assumed that purity of xtal can be low enough to really influence absorption.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions here.

MDxx sometimes potentially being closer to it than MDA or MDEA etc.

Idk about this statement.

On occasion or two with xtals I had that confirmed, like once being a mix of MDMA and MDEA, and MDA is surely more common “cut”.

Again, this is a lot of speculation. I doubt anyone thinks of—or uses—MDA as a "cut".

 

[unodelacosa]

Here's a story in The Gothamist about a 23-year-old who overdosed at a nightclub in Brooklyn two years ago. What's notable is that she dissolved her drugs into a water bottle and consumed it that way. The story reminded me of this discussion.

Sad story in the middle of a bunch of night club drama ☞ https://gothamist.com/news/a-23-year-old-odd-at-the-brooklyn-mirage-in-2021-it-wasnt-reported-to-regulators

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I think you're making a lot of assumptions here.

I’m just stating my experience and experience of people I know who tested quite a few batches of crystal and pills. As for MDA I personally never saw it as crystal with MDMA but there were a few pills that were mix of two. I did have crystal that was mix of MDMA and MDEA, don’t think that was any kind of mistake but someones practice of mixing up things a bit to refresh experience for people.

 

[unodelacosa]

I’m just stating my experience and experience of people I know who tested quite a few batches of crystal and pills. As for MDA I personally never saw it as crystal with MDMA but there were a few pills that were mix of two. I did have crystal that was mix of MDMA and MDEA, don’t think that was any kind of mistake but someones practice of mixing up things a bit to refresh experience for people.

Yeah although it's speculative. Another possibility is that this person had access to, say, a mixture of nitromethane and nitroethane, but didn't want to risk fractional vacuum distilling them to separate, so they aminated their ketone with it like a boss all the same. No, you're probably right.

Many moons ago (20+ yrs) I made a batch of MDE, or MDEA if you prefer (I cringe at the "DEA" portion of that acronym), simply bc I had a simple in situ method for producing ethylamine from nitroethane subbed in for nitromethane, and why not? It's an interesting compound. Back then I was younger and immature and I just thought that MDE was a dicktease compared to MDMA. Years later, looking back and considering the harsh hangovers I get from MDMA now… I probably didn't fully appreciate MDE for what it is. Sometimes you don't want the experience to be but so intense, ya know?

MDMA + MDA together really kick my ass. That's going HAAM

 

[vash445]

You would surely change your mind given right place, music and dose. If you love dancing on emphatogens you would almost certainly learn to love dancing on psychedelics.

Ever tried MDMA with a bit of caffeine or amphetamine? Just a tiny bit is usually enough to make it dancey for me. But in fact so does combo with opiates or a bit booze. Ofc adding psychedelics changes experience totally unlike tiny dose of mentioned, sure not everyones cup of tea. I too find MDMA, especially dosed high a lot on the relaxing & melting & connecting but I ain’t a huge raver so that too is ofc personal preference.

As for Shulgin, yeah I know that. I still think using drug that’s already dissolved, even pure MDMA or equivalent in speed of dissolving in water can make a change, ofc not nearly as change of ROA but minutes can play a difference. As for pills, I won’t say I’m positive but almost that very hard presses compared to loose/chalky make some difference. I’ve noticed that very high dosed pills, usual in some parts of Europe tend to be very hard pills while “normal” about 120mg pills are usually not that hard. Tho if that’s intended or simply to be able to make 225mg pill about same size and weight (or at least not double) of one with 120mg of active stuff or there might be more to it. At some level again I won’t say I’m positive but again almost, you can bet that inactive ingredients in pill do make difference as they do with pharmaceuticals and make some people think some generic brand is stronger or better when in fact just absorbs at a bit different rate.

But what I was really aiming at with my previous statement is that MDMA of as low as 65% purity isn’t unknown on the market as xtals and less so in pills. Usually anything beyond 85% is considered very good stuff. Stuff that’s really in high 90% is more of a rarity than a common thing. Stated is correct for some periods and some places but I’m pretty sure stuff of exceptional purity still isn’t a norm in most places outside specific, not so big circles. With that in mind I assumed that purity of xtal can be low enough to really influence absorption.

I’ll conclude this by repeating that I’m yet to encounter mehDMA that can’t be purified enough to become fire stuff. I’ll admit that sometimes it seems that fire still can have a different flavour but that comes to fact that MDMA in a mix with other MDxx is not that rare either OR possibly even more common, MDxx is sold as MDMA. MDxx sometimes potentially being closer to it than MDA or MDEA etc. And to clarify that I don’t claim a bunch of MDMA is something close not real stuff but rare occasions I encountered mehDMA turned to fire with a bit of different flavour was usually the case. On occasion or two with xtals I had that confirmed, like once being a mix of MDMA and MDEA, and MDA is surely more common “cut”. I’m also open to that in unconfirmed MDxx maybe additional purification would remove “flavour” but usually 98 -99% is enough for any MDMA to be considered fire by everyone.

I’ll conclude this by repeating that I’m yet to encounter mehDMA that can’t be purified enough to become fire stuff

Well me personally. I had a meh/okish batch...

Recrystalized from dh20 2-3 times . clear and thin as fragile as glass this mdma looked. It became even more MEH then before.

What solvent were you Recrystalizing from

 

[vash445]

I’m just stating my experience and experience of people I know who tested quite a few batches of crystal and pills. As for MDA I personally never saw it as crystal with MDMA but there were a few pills that were mix of two. I did have crystal that was mix of MDMA and MDEA, don’t think that was any kind of mistake but someones practice of mixing up things a bit to refresh experience for people.

Lab test WITHOUT NMR is pointless..

Gm/ms, FTIR AND RAMEN and paperspray mass spec is missing something.. all of those can't tell the difference between fxe and can ket a meo analog of fxe

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Lab test WITHOUT NMR is pointless..

Gm/ms, FTIR AND RAMEN and paperspray mass spec is missing something.. all of those can't tell the difference between fxe and can ket a meo analog of fxe

Wouldn’t say it’s pointless at all with MDMA, each time we found out purity of given crystals and pills too. Yeah it could have been something really close to MDMA, and I did mention that possibility but I did get result one time as high purity MDMA and MDEA mix so paid and free testing facilities we used weren’t run by amateurs with cave equipment.

As for pills we on occasions knew amount of crystals that was used to produce them and got back only amount of MDMA HCl in those, that was when tested in free NL facility. So it was easy figuring purity, which with crystals used to make pills often wasn’t impressive.

In all my life encountering MDMA xtal, and that was not so long ago as many of you here did, but was still more than 10 years ago (and last up to couple years ago) and pill(s) more than 15 years ago as pills were main form MDMA was and probably is used where I am. And all that time I maybe had 3 different xtals that I found fire without additional purification and recrystalizaion. And those were Canadian mix of MDMA/MDEA, NL brown sugar and some perfect glass looking xtals I got on some festival and was pretty sure it was MDA or a mix with MDA. It’s quite spread misconception that MDMA can be 85% top purity, as some believe that normally HCl is not counted in, but that’s not the case, mostly at least ime, but MDMA of “just” about 85% purity sadly usually is more than satisfying purity for most. And stuff produced at about that purity and melted to glass/huge xtals without additional purification was and I would be surprised if it still isn’t standard at the old continent.

 

[Rectify]

Did your pupils maximally dilate or not?
(1) yes
(2) no
(3) don't know / don't remember

Did music sound unbelievably good?
Were you overcome with an urge to dance all night?

I don't think the syndicates are selling real X.

 

[Frog Dreams]

I can get pure MDMA from clinical trials so I don't know WTF y'all are talking about, honestly.

MD is better than ever... but I've never liked it and I'd rather have shrooms any day of the week.

 

[Observer01]

Was very curious to come back to this thread after a few years away and see if it was still going. I'm not knocking anything because more than anything it has evolved into an expert level discussion on MDMA and it's synthesis and history, an interesting read by any measure if you are into learning about MDMA.

My 2 cents as someone looking in from the outside and as a long time, responsible, MDMA user, who still gets good effects. I don't think there's anything "wrong" with the MDMA around today. Of course, like always, there are bad drugs out there and much better drugs. However, the sub-par experiences IMO can most often be attributed to some combination of tolerance, mindset, age, environment, and most heavily: expectations. I know many will disagree, but if you are careful in your sourcing (darknet for me), the good stuff is there.

Personally, as I enter my 40's, I've had to reset my expectations around what the substance is. I partake no more than 1-2 times per year. I know it's going to open me up for a bit, encourage some connection, and give me some energy, but it's not going to "blow my mind" like it did 20 years ago. The era when I thought everyone was my best friend for life while under the influence, and everything everyone said was the most interesting thing I had ever heard. I'm aware now that I'm under the influence, that I'm still me, and that I will indeed come back to earth. I know the ride, I know the endgame. It's predictable. The big breakthroughs that I achieved with MDMA at some point have come and gone, but I can still have nice experiences that are worthwhile.

Have a great week everyone, and good luck out there.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

My 2 cents as someone looking in from the outside and as a long time, responsible, MDMA user, who still gets good effects. I don't think there's anything "wrong" with the MDMA around today. Of course, like always, there are bad drugs out there and much better drugs. However, the sub-par experiences IMO can most often be attributed to some combination of tolerance, mindset, age, environment, and most heavily: expectations. I know many will disagree, but if you are careful in your sourcing (darknet for me), the good stuff is there.

I had to consider that that was the issue so I asked some younger family and friends what their recent first time experience of MDMA was. I let them describe before asking specific questions. Their description was very lackluster. Putting all the subtleties aside, I'm looking for at least very strong feelings of pleasure and euphoria as this was a huge part of my limited use in the 90s. For me the initial comeup after 50mins was such hard pleasure that it almost made me panic but within 5 mins the euphoria kicked in and everything was amazing for a few hours.

I have had nothing like that since starting again around 2010. My younger family's description was very much in line with my current experience. Basically they would shrug and say it was fairly good and got them wasted - basically the requirement for people nowadays.

 

[Delsyd]

Great post @Observer01
I never understood the MehDMA debate. I always have great experiences on MDMA. The nature of the experience has changed as I get older but it is still very emotional and heart opening especially when I take it with my partner

 

[vash445]

 

[vash445]

I kept saying this but.....it seemed to fall on deaf ears.

 

[unodelacosa]

I had to consider that that was the issue so I asked some younger family and friends what their recent first time experience of MDMA was. I let them describe before asking specific questions. Their description was very lackluster. Putting all the subtleties aside, I'm looking for at least very strong feelings of pleasure and euphoria as this was a huge part of my limited use in the 90s. For me the initial comeup after 50mins was such hard pleasure that it almost made me panic but within 5 mins the euphoria kicked in and everything was amazing for a few hours.

I have had nothing like that since starting again around 2010. My younger family's description was very much in line with my current experience. Basically they would shrug and say it was fairly good and got them wasted - basically the requirement for people nowadays.

Is it not possible you and your younger family members have been unlucky in your local area in terms of finding real deal, high-quality MDMA? I've been using MDMA since '96. There are good batches and not-so-good batches out there, just like there were in the 90s. What do we expect, it's an unregulated drug. Acid purity varies quite a bit as well, as does cocaine, meth, heroin, speed paste, even RCs…

But you're right insofar as to say that there's a certain novelty to doing a drug for the first few times and this just wears off eventually. Rolling in new environments and around new people helps to refresh the vibes sometimes for me though. Set & setting – and really with MDMA, the company is important and so are the lights and music. It picks up the experience and gives it some kick, and at times these things can be the difference between an amazing experience and a lackluster one. Many of us are not making the same moves we made when we were younger. Add to that the fact that as we get older our brains produce increasing amounts of MAO and getting high actually becomes more difficult with a higher threshold.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I've had some amazing MDMA in the recent past so there are definitely good and bad batches still out there if you know where to look

 

[ThreePointCircle]

Is it not possible you and your younger family members have been unlucky in your local area in terms of finding real deal, high-quality MDMA? I've been using MDMA since '96. There are good batches and not-so-good batches out there, just like there were in the 90s. What do we expect, it's an unregulated drug. Acid purity varies quite a bit as well, as does cocaine, meth, heroin, speed paste, even RCs…

But you're right insofar as to say that there's a certain novelty to doing a drug for the first few times and this just wears off eventually. Rolling in new environments and around new people helps to refresh the vibes sometimes for me though. Set & setting – and really with MDMA, the company is important and so are the lights and music. It picks up the experience and gives it some kick, and at times these things can be the difference between an amazing experience and a lackluster one. Many of us are not making the same moves we made when we were younger. Add to that the fact that as we get older our brains produce increasing amounts of MAO and getting high actually becomes more difficult with a higher threshold.

I'm not sure where they got there's but I got off the DM so same country but that's about it. I suppose I can summarise by saying I don't know anyone from the UK who has got anything good for years, except for one time but I don't know where they got it from (and that is very 3rd hand information).

Acid has varied in strength but never omitted basic functionality associated with it.

 

[unodelacosa]

I'm not sure where they got there's but I got off the DM so same country but that's about it. I suppose I can summarise by saying I don't know anyone from the UK who has got anything good for years, except for one time but I don't know where they got it from (and that is very 3rd hand information).

Acid has varied in strength but never omitted basic functionality associated with it.

I'm not in the UK but I would completely agree w/that assessment and I also don't know anyone currently in the UK who seems able to get domestic MDMA worth a fuck, save for a few rare cases here and there, it seems. And this makes me think it might get better soon-ish. Seems like a really big market and it's only a matter of time before some enterprising types with the right connections and inclination for civil disobedience take advantage of this opportunity, risky though it is in its criminal elements and potential for loss of liberty. It's just a matter of time before the land that gave us the Doncaster raves will be flush with high quality Mandy again…

I've had some amazing MDMA in the recent past so there are definitely good and bad batches still out there if you know where to look

Eggs smactly.

Personally I like to see what I'm buying, not to knock the markets on the net of the darq persuasion, which can be useful at times with certain things especially, but when it comes to this topic, I know the real deal Holyfield MDMA when I see it and especially when I taste it.

 

[Rectify]

What is wrong with the MDMA available today? It's 98 to 99% likely BUNK, based on my last 20 years here in the United States buying and eating x pillz.

I feel sure that if and when one or more of one of the larger global crime family syndicates led by, say, Warren Buffett decided to, oh what the Hel, bring back the 134 mg MDMA.hcl aspirin sized Mitsubishi stamp on a world wide scale, WE WILL KNOW soon enough.