What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[Mjäll]

I never SAID taking mdma in water is the issue..

I said

Hydrogen bonding is an interaction of great importance in drug discovery and development as it may significantly affect chemical and biological processes including the interaction of small molecules with other molecules, proteins, and membranes. In particular, hydrogen bonding can impact drug-like properties such as target affinity and oral availability which are critical to developing effective pharmaceuticals, and therefore, numerous methods for the calculation of properties such as hydrogen-bond strengths, free energy of hydration, or water solubility have been proposed over time....

But NOOOO... you wanna argue about it..fine



Putting MDMA IN Water. Would have a different PEAK then mdma in the crystal lacittice..The obtained diffractograms matched with MDMA·HCl·H2O and MDMA·HCl in the ICDD reference XRD database, respectively, as indicated in Fig. S3. This clearly shows that the two forms of MDMA·HCl are indeed crystalline polymorphic forms and that the observed water peaks cannot be attributed to (unbound) residual water.


. Often little attention is paid to the crystalline form of reference standards in forensic drug analysis, and it may be possible that this crystalline state differs from actual casework samples. For example, a reference material synthesized in a controlled laboratory environment that utilizes gaseous hydrogen chloride may be of the anhydrous form whereas seized materials form a clandestine laboratory that uses concentrated hydrochloric acid may result in the hydrated species.

You never said that! You just said that in a painfully roundabout way.

 

[vash445]

You never said that! You just said that in a painfully roundabout way.

It's implied if you understand chem..

I also said THAT you need to look at the kenitic energy of postive and NEG IONS fighting against each and not as H20 being lobbed off...

Anyways if FORM 1 and form 2 have 0 difference...

Then please explain the difference of these 2 pictures

---

Screenshot-20230830-003433-Chrome hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-20230830-003433-Chrome hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Also I said People need to see it as Postive and NEG ions fighting against each other and less as solubility. Hydrogen bonding plays a HUGE role apparently... but noooo noone wants to listen

Anyways

Hydrogen Bonds
Hydrogen bonds form when hydrogen atoms covalently bonded to nitrogen (N), oxygen (O), or fluorine (F) in the form of covalent compounds such as ammonia (NH3), water (H2O) and hydrogen fluoride gas (HF). In these molecules, the hydrogen atoms do not pull as strongly on the shared electrons as the N, O, or F atoms. Therefore, the molecules are polar; the hydrogen atoms become positively charged and are able to form hydrogen bonds to negative ions or negatively charged parts of other molecules (such as the N, O, and F atoms that become negatively charged in these compounds).

The People need to see it as Postive and NEG ions fighting against each other and less as solubility. Idk how I could have made it anymore MORE CLEAR... did saying The difference in exact peak positions between experiment and calculation can likely be attributed to a (slightly) different crystal structure or small differences in orientation of the water molecule with respect to the AMINE. The latter can lead to small shifts in the harmonic spectrum, and consequently more pronounced shifts in the anharmonic (near-IR) spectrum.it SHOULD be implied like I said the postive and neg ions are fighting against eachother..

 

[vash445]

You never said that! You just said that in a painfully roundabout way.

Anyways look at these pictures below .

Screenshot-20230830-005612-Chrome hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-20230830-005612-Chrome hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

You can't say they are the same molecule

Considering the structure, the most common are layer, void, and channel hydrates (Figure 1). They can be also divided into stoichiometric and non-stoichiometric ones. Stoichiometric hydrates are composed of a constant number of water molecules located in clearly defined structure elements like channels [7]. On the contrary, non-stoichiometric hydrates have a variable number of water molecules incorporated in a crystal lattice and, in this case, their naming, for example, dihydrate, usually indicates the maximum number of H2O molecules present in a structure. Non-stoichiometric hydrates can occur as channel or void hydrates, but the solvent molecules are disordered because of the weaker H-bonds with the host molecules, when compared with stoichiometric hydrates [8]. As a result, water diffusion out of these structures is much easier. Furthermore, their hydration level depends highly on the humidity in the surrounding atmosphere. Moreover, non-stoichiometric hydrates are much less prone to collapse after water removal. This phenomenon is characteristic for stoichiometric hydrates, especially when they form large channels or voids. In such cases, distortion of a complex H-bonding network that was stabilizing the stoichiometric hydrate leads to completely new molecular arrangements. Less prevalent among API hydrates are ion coordinated hydrates (known also as ion-associated hydrates) [9] and isolated site hydrates. In case of the latter, water molecules interact solely with the host molecule, but not with each other [10].


Examples of different types of hydrates: (a) isolated hydrate, dapsone; (b) channel hydrate, brucine [11]; and (c) ion-coordinated hydrate, ondansetron hydrochloride [12]. Crystallographic structures were downloaded from the Cambridge Crystallography Data Centre (CCDC) [13] with the following reference codes: ANSFON (dapsone hydrate), YOYZIX (brucine hydrate), and YILGAB (ondansetron hydrochloride dihydrate). Ondansetron hydrochloride: chlorine is marked in green.

 

[G_Chem]

UHH did you NOT read what I wrote...

This review discusses only the crystalline stoichiometric hydrates in which the environment of the water molecules exhibits various defined patterns, and emphasizes pharmaceutical hydrates and their behavior. The presence of the water molecules influences the intermolecular interactions (affecting the internal energy and enthalpy) and the crystalline disorder (entropy), and hence influences the free energy, thermodynamic activity, solubility, dissolution rate, stability, and bioavailability....

In most cases, in comparison with anhydrous forms, hydrates are thermodynamically more stable under normal conditions. As a result, hydrates are less prone to dissolve in water and, consequently, they usually exhibit lower bioavailability, which is an obvious disadvantage in terms of their therapeutic applications [15].

MAPS SPECIFICALLY USES FORM1, not form 2 and not form 3 and not a hydrate... Specifically form 1... Drug makers will take product off shelfs for YEARS due to polymorphs see ... Ritonavir was found to exhibit conformational polymorphism with two unique crystal lattices having significantly different solubility properties. Although the polymorph (form II) corresponding to the "cis" conformation is a more stable packing arrangement, nucleation, even in the presence of form II seeds, is energetically unfavored except in highly supersaturated solutions. The coincidence of a highly supersaturated solution and a probable heterogeneous nucleation by a degradation product resulted in the sudden appearance of the more stable form II polymorph.


Screening for different crystal properties of an active pharmaceutical ingredient is a crucial part in understanding and evaluating a drug.... MDMA IS NO DIFFERENT

How come people are putting dutch MDMA in water and having lackluster effects .If Once the compound is dissolved has no effect... Then why has a lot of dutch MDMA been meh. my only guess is there are greater positive and NEG forces within the molecule are at play, doesnt matter if it's water/molly water, doesnt matter if you take it "RAW"in crystals with toilet paper, gel caps etc..
How come my own that was my recrystallized MDMA in dH20 only... that 100% looked like meth and was see thru clear... also caused VERY lack luster effects... It's clear hydrates and the bonds and alike play a greater roll that WE as chemists don't know about.. and that the PREVIOUS form before recrystallization with MORE IMPURTIES WAS MUCH better then this HYDRATED MDMA after recrystallization...

in the 1930s it was realized that the formation of a hydrogen bond has a profound effect on the frequency of the X-H stretch. This started the infrared investigations of hydrogen bonds, which became the most sensitive and the most widely applied experimental method of studying this phenomenon in clusters and in the liquid and solid phases

When pairs of molecules become associated, the associated molecules are called dimers and the molecular process is called dimerization. Intermolecular hydrogen bonding promotes association and thus has a LARGE EFFECT on the physical properties of a substance. For example, lactic acid has two hydrogen bond donor sites (–OH) and three hydrogen bond acceptor sites (–OH, –OH, double bondO). Intermolecular hydrogen bonding of lactic acid in the vapor-phase causes it to form dimers and this dimerization greatly lowers its vapor-phase compressibility,



WHY THEN IF over 100 samples, only one sample was found to contain anhydrous MDMA·HCl. This seized sample had a peculiar appearance as a very fine and dusty powder. It is noteworthy that re-analysis of this particular sample a year after seizure showed that the MDMA·HCl transformed into its hydrated state as described for model substances in section 3.5. The RARENESS of anhydrous MDMA·HCl is also depicted in Fig. 8, where an overlay of randomly selected casework samples (2019 – 2020, The Netherlands) showed that all crystalline samples (Fig. 8, B) and all tablets (Fig. 8, C) show the spectral features diagnostic for hydrated MDMA·HCl in their NIR spectrum.


WE ALSO KNOW that Intermolecular hydrogen bonding between drug molecules and biological receptors can be an important interaction for driving potent binding or selectivity. However, introduction of hydrogen bonding motifs into drug molecules can potentially have a deleterious effect on membrane penetration, presumably due to a high water de-solvation penalty. This can have an impact on absorption, cell penetration and brain penetration. and that bands that originate from crystal water are more defined than those originating from bulk water. The reason for this phenomenon is the more restricted energetic distribution of the O -H vibrations of the water that is bound in the crystal lattice [19].

If HYDRATES OR form 2 or form 3 didnt matter then why is MAPS ONLY USING FORM1, NOT HYDRATES, NOT FORM 3 or FORM 2... Only form 1 WHY?

Because obviously they know something we dont. IF IT was a matter of Those groups simply split off and then you're left with the active compound.. then why is MAPS only using FORM1 and not hydrates... oh wait lets read this 1 MORE TIME... WE ALSO KNOW that Intermolecular hydrogen bonding between drug molecules and biological receptors can be an important interaction for driving potent binding or selectivity. However, introduction of hydrogen bonding motifs into drug molecules can potentially have a deleterious effect on membrane penetration, presumably due to a high water de-solvation penalty. This can have an impact on absorption, cell penetration and brain penetration.

WHY in 100 lab samples only 1 had anhydrous MDMA... in the NL... If and this is a HUGE IF MAPS was ok with HYDRATES why dont they use it? HYDRATES are more shelf stable... oh right HYDRATES are less bioavailable for 1... OH and what this


People need to view it as POSTIVE and NEG ions FIGTHING against each other this Not as H20 water molecule.. it gets lobbed off.. WHY? This can have an impact on absorption, cell penetration and brain penetration. and that bands that originate from crystal water are more defined than those originating from bulk water. The reason for this phenomenon is the more restricted energetic distribution of the O -H vibrations of the water that is bound in the crystal lattice... THESE HYDRATES and other polymorphic forms can be energetically unfavored except in highly supersaturated solutions...

We also have discussed polymorphs... at least at 1 point but hasnt been brought up much... YOU might not think it plays a role... But it clearly does...
Hydrogen-bonds play a crucial role in determining the specificity of ligand binding. Their important contribution is explicitly incorporated into a computational method, called GRID, which has been designed to detect energetically favourable ligand binding sites on a chosen target molecule of known structure. An empirical energy function consisting of a Lennard-Jones, an electrostatic and a hydrogen-bonding term is employed. The latter term is found to be necessary because spherically symmetric atom-centred forces alone may not adequately reproduce the geometry of two interacting molecules. The hydrogen-bonding term is dependent on the length and orientation of the hydrogen-bond. Its functional form also varies according to the chemical nature of both the hydrogen-bond donor and acceptor atoms, and has been modelled to fit experimental observations of crystal structures. The mobility of the hydrogen-bonding hydrogens is considered analytically in calculating the hydrogen-bond energy. The hydrogen-bonding energy functions will be described and their application will be demonstrated on molecules of pharmacological interest where hydrogen-bonds influence the binding of ligands.



This function is used to determine the sites where ligands, such as drugs, may bind to a chosen target molecule which may be a protein, a nucleic acid, a polysaccharide, or a small organic molecule.The energy function is composed of a Lennard-Jones, an electrostatic and a hydrogen-bonding term. The latter is dependent on the length and orientation of the hydrogen bond and also on the chemical nature of the hydrogen-bonding atoms. These terms have been formulated by fitting to experimental observations of hydrogen bonds in crystal structures. In the calculations, thermal motion of the hydrogen-bonding hydrogen atoms and lone-pair electrons may be taken into account. For example, in a alcoholic hydroxyl group, the hydrogen may rotate around the C-O bond at the observed tetrahedral angle. In a histidine residue, a hydrogen atom may be bonded to either of the two imidazole nitrogens and movement of this hydrogen will cause a redistribution of charge which is dependent on the nature of the probe group and the surrounding environment. The shape of some of the energy functions is demonstrated on molecules of pharmacological interest.


SO read this VERY close and 1 last time People need to view it as POSTIVE and NEG ions FIGTHING against each other this Not as H20 water molecule.

I never knew there was more than one anhydrous polymorph, can you link to some info on that please?

-GC

 

[vash445]

I never knew there was more than one anhydrous polymorph, can you link to some info on that please?

-GC

^

The Commercial Chemistry of MDMA: From Research to Patient Access

Written by Heather Clouting, M.Sc. MAPS Bulletin Spring 2020: Vol. 30, No. 1 Download this article. Nearly 20 years ago, during our final year of university while studying for our Bachelor’s in chemistry, I thought that two fellow students and I were rebels for suggesting that our organic...

maps.org

Another significant lesson from the last 12 months of API development work was the discovery of two new polymorphic forms of MDMA, never seen previously in the literature.

Also

In total, at least four hydrate forms and three anhydrous crystal forms of MDMA·HCl were reported [32].

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsomega.1c05520

In my own recrystalized experiences using MEOH or dH20

I believe form 1 is a rock form 2 or form 3 look like shushie mix... and the final form look like retungular flat pieces and are brittle/break easy

 

[Foreigner]

UHH did you NOT read what I wrote...

This review discusses only the crystalline stoichiometric hydrates in which the environment of the water molecules exhibits various defined patterns, and emphasizes pharmaceutical hydrates and their behavior. The presence of the water molecules influences the intermolecular interactions (affecting the internal energy and enthalpy) and the crystalline disorder (entropy), and hence influences the free energy, thermodynamic activity, solubility, dissolution rate, stability, and bioavailability....

In most cases, in comparison with anhydrous forms, hydrates are thermodynamically more stable under normal conditions. As a result, hydrates are less prone to dissolve in water and, consequently, they usually exhibit lower bioavailability, which is an obvious disadvantage in terms of their therapeutic applications [15].

MAPS SPECIFICALLY USES FORM1, not form 2 and not form 3 and not a hydrate... Specifically form 1... Drug makers will take product off shelfs for YEARS due to polymorphs see ... Ritonavir was found to exhibit conformational polymorphism with two unique crystal lattices having significantly different solubility properties. Although the polymorph (form II) corresponding to the "cis" conformation is a more stable packing arrangement, nucleation, even in the presence of form II seeds, is energetically unfavored except in highly supersaturated solutions. The coincidence of a highly supersaturated solution and a probable heterogeneous nucleation by a degradation product resulted in the sudden appearance of the more stable form II polymorph.


Screening for different crystal properties of an active pharmaceutical ingredient is a crucial part in understanding and evaluating a drug.... MDMA IS NO DIFFERENT

How come people are putting dutch MDMA in water and having lackluster effects .If Once the compound is dissolved has no effect... Then why has a lot of dutch MDMA been meh. my only guess is there are greater positive and NEG forces within the molecule are at play, doesnt matter if it's water/molly water, doesnt matter if you take it "RAW"in crystals with toilet paper, gel caps etc..
How come my own that was my recrystallized MDMA in dH20 only... that 100% looked like meth and was see thru clear... also caused VERY lack luster effects... It's clear hydrates and the bonds and alike play a greater roll that WE as chemists don't know about.. and that the PREVIOUS form before recrystallization with MORE IMPURTIES WAS MUCH better then this HYDRATED MDMA after recrystallization...

in the 1930s it was realized that the formation of a hydrogen bond has a profound effect on the frequency of the X-H stretch. This started the infrared investigations of hydrogen bonds, which became the most sensitive and the most widely applied experimental method of studying this phenomenon in clusters and in the liquid and solid phases

When pairs of molecules become associated, the associated molecules are called dimers and the molecular process is called dimerization. Intermolecular hydrogen bonding promotes association and thus has a LARGE EFFECT on the physical properties of a substance. For example, lactic acid has two hydrogen bond donor sites (–OH) and three hydrogen bond acceptor sites (–OH, –OH, double bondO). Intermolecular hydrogen bonding of lactic acid in the vapor-phase causes it to form dimers and this dimerization greatly lowers its vapor-phase compressibility,



WHY THEN IF over 100 samples, only one sample was found to contain anhydrous MDMA·HCl. This seized sample had a peculiar appearance as a very fine and dusty powder. It is noteworthy that re-analysis of this particular sample a year after seizure showed that the MDMA·HCl transformed into its hydrated state as described for model substances in section 3.5. The RARENESS of anhydrous MDMA·HCl is also depicted in Fig. 8, where an overlay of randomly selected casework samples (2019 – 2020, The Netherlands) showed that all crystalline samples (Fig. 8, B) and all tablets (Fig. 8, C) show the spectral features diagnostic for hydrated MDMA·HCl in their NIR spectrum.


WE ALSO KNOW that Intermolecular hydrogen bonding between drug molecules and biological receptors can be an important interaction for driving potent binding or selectivity. However, introduction of hydrogen bonding motifs into drug molecules can potentially have a deleterious effect on membrane penetration, presumably due to a high water de-solvation penalty. This can have an impact on absorption, cell penetration and brain penetration. and that bands that originate from crystal water are more defined than those originating from bulk water. The reason for this phenomenon is the more restricted energetic distribution of the O -H vibrations of the water that is bound in the crystal lattice [19].

If HYDRATES OR form 2 or form 3 didnt matter then why is MAPS ONLY USING FORM1, NOT HYDRATES, NOT FORM 3 or FORM 2... Only form 1 WHY?

Because obviously they know something we dont. IF IT was a matter of Those groups simply split off and then you're left with the active compound.. then why is MAPS only using FORM1 and not hydrates... oh wait lets read this 1 MORE TIME... WE ALSO KNOW that Intermolecular hydrogen bonding between drug molecules and biological receptors can be an important interaction for driving potent binding or selectivity. However, introduction of hydrogen bonding motifs into drug molecules can potentially have a deleterious effect on membrane penetration, presumably due to a high water de-solvation penalty. This can have an impact on absorption, cell penetration and brain penetration.

WHY in 100 lab samples only 1 had anhydrous MDMA... in the NL... If and this is a HUGE IF MAPS was ok with HYDRATES why dont they use it? HYDRATES are more shelf stable... oh right HYDRATES are less bioavailable for 1... OH and what this


People need to view it as POSTIVE and NEG ions FIGTHING against each other this Not as H20 water molecule.. it gets lobbed off.. WHY? This can have an impact on absorption, cell penetration and brain penetration. and that bands that originate from crystal water are more defined than those originating from bulk water. The reason for this phenomenon is the more restricted energetic distribution of the O -H vibrations of the water that is bound in the crystal lattice... THESE HYDRATES and other polymorphic forms can be energetically unfavored except in highly supersaturated solutions...

We also have discussed polymorphs... at least at 1 point but hasnt been brought up much... YOU might not think it plays a role... But it clearly does...
Hydrogen-bonds play a crucial role in determining the specificity of ligand binding. Their important contribution is explicitly incorporated into a computational method, called GRID, which has been designed to detect energetically favourable ligand binding sites on a chosen target molecule of known structure. An empirical energy function consisting of a Lennard-Jones, an electrostatic and a hydrogen-bonding term is employed. The latter term is found to be necessary because spherically symmetric atom-centred forces alone may not adequately reproduce the geometry of two interacting molecules. The hydrogen-bonding term is dependent on the length and orientation of the hydrogen-bond. Its functional form also varies according to the chemical nature of both the hydrogen-bond donor and acceptor atoms, and has been modelled to fit experimental observations of crystal structures. The mobility of the hydrogen-bonding hydrogens is considered analytically in calculating the hydrogen-bond energy. The hydrogen-bonding energy functions will be described and their application will be demonstrated on molecules of pharmacological interest where hydrogen-bonds influence the binding of ligands.



This function is used to determine the sites where ligands, such as drugs, may bind to a chosen target molecule which may be a protein, a nucleic acid, a polysaccharide, or a small organic molecule.The energy function is composed of a Lennard-Jones, an electrostatic and a hydrogen-bonding term. The latter is dependent on the length and orientation of the hydrogen bond and also on the chemical nature of the hydrogen-bonding atoms. These terms have been formulated by fitting to experimental observations of hydrogen bonds in crystal structures. In the calculations, thermal motion of the hydrogen-bonding hydrogen atoms and lone-pair electrons may be taken into account. For example, in a alcoholic hydroxyl group, the hydrogen may rotate around the C-O bond at the observed tetrahedral angle. In a histidine residue, a hydrogen atom may be bonded to either of the two imidazole nitrogens and movement of this hydrogen will cause a redistribution of charge which is dependent on the nature of the probe group and the surrounding environment. The shape of some of the energy functions is demonstrated on molecules of pharmacological interest.


SO read this VERY close and 1 last time People need to view it as POSTIVE and NEG ions FIGTHING against each other this Not as H20 water molecule.

Dude stop writing novels and just answer my question directly. This is all tl;dr

If you can't explain something simply then you can't explain it. I've studied organic chem in university and a lot of your explanations are

 

[G_Chem]

^

The Commercial Chemistry of MDMA: From Research to Patient Access

Written by Heather Clouting, M.Sc. MAPS Bulletin Spring 2020: Vol. 30, No. 1 Download this article. Nearly 20 years ago, during our final year of university while studying for our Bachelor’s in chemistry, I thought that two fellow students and I were rebels for suggesting that our organic...

maps.org

Another significant lesson from the last 12 months of API development work was the discovery of two new polymorphic forms of MDMA, never seen previously in the literature.

Also

In total, at least four hydrate forms and three anhydrous crystal forms of MDMA·HCl were reported [32].

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsomega.1c05520

In my own recrystalized experiences using MEOH or dH20

I believe form 1 is a rock form 2 or form 3 look like shushie mix... and the final form look like retungular flat pieces and are brittle/break easy

Fuck ya brother, that’s some good info right there.

As it says in the article you linked, up until their screening only 1 anhydrous polymorph was identified. I believe the last person to even look was Shulgin. With this “new” (to me lol) information we can now look at the polymorph theory once again.

I remember anhydrous forming “orthorhombic” crystals and hydrated forming diamond like parallelogram crystals.

Now next step is finding some form of pharmacological data on each anhydrous polymorph to see what’s what. But I’m going to assume like you that MAPS has zeroed in on the correct “magic” polymorph.

-GC

 

[vash445]

Fuck ya brother, that’s some good info right there.

As it says in the article you linked, up until their screening only 1 anhydrous polymorph was identified. I believe the last person to even look was Shulgin. With this “new” (to me lol) information we can now look at the polymorph theory once again.

I remember anhydrous forming “orthorhombic” crystals and hydrated forming diamond like parallelogram crystals.

Now next step is finding some form of pharmacological data on each anhydrous polymorph to see what’s what. But I’m going to assume like you that MAPS has zeroed in on the correct “magic” polymorph.

-GC

Trust me that isnt the half of it... I also have a feeling on why dutch dirt has been Dutch dirt for a bit...
Except not only only anhydrous polymorph we need to look into hydrates as well... maps uses MEOH for recrystalizations and my own meh got WORSE... not better after recrystalizations it did look better though

Dont forget MDMA from the NL is called "DUTCH dirt" for a reason... my only guess why it's probably hydrates...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468170922000674

A possible explanation of this high (almost exclusive) occurrence of hydrated MDMA·HCl in forensic casework in the Netherlands is how MDMA·HCl is produced within clandestine laboratories. The final step in the production process is to convert the MDMA base oil into MDMA·HCl which is typically performed in acetone with concentrated hydrochloric acid, consisting of a max. 37 % solution of hydrogen chloride in water. Upon MDMA crystallization in the mixture of acetone and concentrated hydrochloric acid, water is included in the crystalline lattice of the MDMA·HCl thus yielding the hydrated form. Anhydrous MDMA·HCl can be produced by using (anhydrous) hydrogen chloride gas to form the MDMA hydrochloride salt. This latter procedure is rarely encountered in clandestine laboratories anymore. Furthermore, when this process is applied, it can be expected that the product will slowly absorb water over time when it comes in contact with ambient moisture.



For over 100 samples, only one sample was found to contain anhydrous MDMA·HCl. This seized sample had a peculiar appearance as a very fine and dusty powder. It is noteworthy that re-analysis of this particular sample a year after seizure showed that the MDMA·HCl transformed into its hydrated state as described for model substances in section 3.5. The RARENESS of anhydrous MDMA·HCl is also depicted in Fig. 8, where an overlay of randomly selected casework samples

Also didnt my FUNKY MDMA have 2 weird thing one was a dimmer... something like MDDMA or MDMMA?
The other which is more shocking was THAT HUGE ass water peak we found when we did the NMR remember? Anyways I'm sure I read something that water molecules can form dimmers thus the theory of both is lining UP.

See https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/j100323a058 and https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/enthalpy-of-dimerization


Anyways Ive donated $500 to GYTD for an NMR I have a few people wanting to drop a few thousand EACH for it for them cuz they are tired of they data they have been getting... and same with me .. once I hear back if they are willing to help. Ill let you guys know so you can donate directly with them. Ive seen used NMRs for around 1300+ freight that do 200MHZ or 3000+ shipping for a 700 MHZ or 9k if they directly pickup from canada but it's BRAND new open box

I also suggested an XRD or similar so we can detect polymorps or hydrates.. I'll get back to you when they respond! Heres what ive been possibly looking at

NMR magnet w/controller 200mHz FT Spectrometer Gemini 200 Varian | eBay

This is a used NMR magnet made by Varian, model Gemini 200. MFG: Varian. Model: Gemini 200. With these two sources of information you will have as much information as possible without being physically here to inspect the machine.

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Bruker Avance 400 Digital NMR Nuclear Magnetic Resonance w/BAFPA 40 x3 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Bruker Avance 400 Digital NMR Nuclear Magnetic Resonance w/BAFPA 40 x3 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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But with that my MEH MDMA had a HUGE h20 peak when we ran it... which could have also inadvertly created the "Dimmer"

THE good news? IF it is Hydrates...

In order to do so, they converted the hydrated form to the anhydrous form by heating MDMA in a glass test tube for 1.5 h at 100 °C.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468170922000674

 

[vash445]

Fuck ya brother, that’s some good info right there.

As it says in the article you linked, up until their screening only 1 anhydrous polymorph was identified. I believe the last person to even look was Shulgin. With this “new” (to me lol) information we can now look at the polymorph theory once again.

orthorhombic

Now next step is finding some form of pharmacological data on each anhydrous polymorph to see what’s what. But I’m going to assume like you that MAPS has zeroed in on the correct “magic” polymorph.

-GC

That makes sense Ive encounter both orthorhombic in MEOH and flat prism/diamonds like BUT VERY VERY brittle thanks for the name... it just slipped my mind

 

[vash445]

Dude stop writing novels and just answer my question directly. This is all tl;dr

If you can't explain something simply then you can't explain it. I've studied organic chem in university and a lot of your explanations are

Because do know there are over 4000+ people in this group and a ton of randos who pop in...

It's not just you and me.. Some people need to be explained like like i'm 5-10 YO...
Not that we got that clear, lets stay turned for on the next episode of dragon ball MANDY and stay on subject... GOHAN and GOKU go to the moon by fundraising selling cupcakes and riceballs for Daddy ELON rocket ship to travel and chemical labs to make cleaner burning fuel XD

 

[TimTim1993]

The first time I did Ecstasy was amazing, I was 16 and I took a Blue Dolphin pill and when the roll hit me I felt so euphoric, and confident, I felt like I could talk to the hottest girls without any anxiety or self consciousness, everything was brighter and way more vibrant like lights and the colors on everything, I got a pretty intense jaw lock but I didn't care because of how euphoric I felt. I never wanted the high to end, I wanted to roll forever. The comedown was brutal. I felt anxiety, anger, emotionally drained and I saw everything with tracers and trails. But that was 13 years ago and I had E pills back in 2019 that were nothing like the Blue Dolphins and Purple Stars I had back in the day.

 

[vash445]

For the first time the investigation of water molecule complexed with methylamine (CH3NH2) in solid neon was performed from 80 to 6000 cm−1 using Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy. From concentration effects and with the help of theoretical results we have identify several vibrational transitions for CH3NH2 dimer, CH3NH2-H2O, and CH3NH2-(H2O)2 complexes. For the CH3NH2-H2O complex, where the two submolecules interacting through hydrogen bonding, the infrared (IR) spectral changes (frequencies as well as intensities) indicate that the water playing the role of the proton donor, in agreement with the previous theoretical works. Theoretical calculations at the second-order Møller-Plesset level have been performed to obtain their equilibrium geometries and vibrational spectra at the harmonic level and comparison with experimental data allows us to give structures of observed complexes.

https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com/271369/1-s2.0-S0022286021X00087/1-s2.0-S0022286021004397/am.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEDEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJHMEUCIELAUU7lXOdZhfWBmhiwejrH6tcoUhWbXeHhAlJpohywAiEA7g1pc7FsW7x7oGQ7O6Put8H%2Fdb%2FdTnNEBCnBEcy2H7sqvAUI%2Bv%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FARAFGgwwNTkwMDM1NDY4NjUiDA3YgMfjQCcC%2Fl45pSqQBcqhrTVytnJB2aGN9ngbCRVngQvNfD4G%2Bbk7TkkdVyz4sWqyGYjpmfHqLhtUvTR%2FlLW0uHUXPQm25vRlCRs6aX3i9%2Bpd7pvf9o9dO1GoVUtjC2qBH274bq5vAKl2R45jHkm%2FJSaFzZNAE7X9hNe4k90tWEN43L68jjlgMhfNK1EEIYj70VWCZAxOWkWNdMDVVhZvOU6942svOijsu%2BJVIznKHTwKj7Pqvusgn2HUCjcUxoqZwFblzZxDGcRkZkKXcqXxdK2Lv1W0B738xdFY4MMbqd%2B8MeNCGlr5g2W5Th%2BPDlAt96qK%2FWqJjNEgJWCv01%2BiHMPdDsJszq2JFJDw%2BdTDWvLSwun79eY%2FInr9HYdewO1lDESziEjXqL0atfAT4%2FVAaapibshEogHJHbyWt9H%2FwszfDkRSHMHvuVKeVyzGIpAAVu5Ry3tHvtEKoFWlOmGxQ9EsFipG2dSehiRUk%2B%2FoDvmtLhvIfyq2lIGvmwpN0AOEtjTugYmRVB1HsMt3LIsdl2I9iBRu5tzy8Baumfpasdsc%2FE5RdHhdie6dIN12eG0T7ajK4%2Bx4xYHHgjl5ztWFMmxu87ziJKloqWicCG%2BTgAOO3OAjzlSTsz98MnG9d9tDWDuDwFQh3iE7szdLyCcwIBy%2BN3Sey%2BIu6rIXUghF%2FCjO72%2FWCPt796tKgGAf%2Fo5f8BXBZZ7Bj8E2G09TiECJkuaMZevPDi9K1yg7%2Fmlbx%2BYBiL1vrTwodrpKkYF2rNAzQrwkFMFoDzcoOTqSGSRpf8PimQbtTv2SlUUW9J2pKe%2Bw5eSV5u1OAxAWR87Ha8JgEY%2BeHvwPEBBF4YOgE64LxtlZLUxcA3vkSk7qaP1SCAvqtveopv%2Buaaw4P9h1MM2IyqcGOrEBTUKAgVyU43OHph8OXAd8bTtekFkObcgUsqeBMfeXftNC1Fo5OTAd%2FWDl75%2BqKNBDy0DpA7E2BraPy3bdfHMyTugv5ZGKmyOvA1XnNFCvxUB9ubsi%2BuMAiZfKCopnvQyL0SThN5VDRogXrRPxLTImZN2K1u5fm1QR0wCe77Es%2BdAMn3UZwe2E3RIsoSKdrguhgMsc58G2MZbVaL%2BO70S9XXfnMoZXXKY3BW4hScKspUyA&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20230902T015435Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAQ3PHCVTY3GIQN7NM%2F20230902%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=b02cec33454bb6106fb6377a2336c24d2148c7b05faa140134ba0d9131e88286&hash=b9dc5cc5a37a3ec686aa3939a67cd62c2e6eb7e34011d20b5b520f4d9c18900f&host=68042c943591013ac2b2430a89b270f6af2c76d8dfd086a07176afe7c76c2c61&pii=S0022286021004397&tid=pdf-535ba8ef-634d-4a4e-ab17-10c5329928a5&sid=20de14cc4cda794a280a39722ce99a582023gxrqa&type=client

Winner winner chicken dinner! with my MEH NMR batch!

 

[someguyontheinternet]

So water is the cause of the meh? The hydrated form is more slowly absorbed?

 

[vash445]

Methylamine is the simplest aliphatic amine found in human urine, blood, and tissues. It is thought to play a significant part in central nervous system disturbances observed during renal and hepatic disease. In this work we have investigated the methylamine hydration clusters using a basin hopping (BH) algorithm with the density functional theory (DFT). The results presented herein yield a detailed understanding of the structure and stability for a system consisting of one methylamine molecule and up to seven waters: the most stable geometries arise from a fusion of tetramer or pentamer rings; by the geometrical parameters and topological parameters analysis, the strengths of the H2N···H-O hydrogen bonds of the global minima increase as the sizes of clusters increase, except for n = 5 where there is a slight fluctuation. This work may shed light on the form mechanism of methylamine existing in organisms and the hydration structures of larger molecules containing amino functional groups and their interaction with the water molecules nearby.

Stability of Hydrated Methylamine: Structural Characteristics and H2N···H-O Hydrogen Bonds - PubMed

Methylamine is the simplest aliphatic amine found in human urine, blood, and tissues. It is thought to play a significant part in central nervous system disturbances observed during renal and hepatic disease. In this work we have investigated the methylamine hydration clusters using a basin...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Clearly water and methylamine play a huge role in dimmers. What with mdma I can't quite say..

But if water just lobbed off.

Eating 300-400mg would have people ROLLING


and yes I found magic later..

Took that along with others and they had all the old effects

 

[vash445]

So water is the cause of the meh? The hydrated form is more slowly absorbed?

my MEH HAD A HUGE h20 peak and a dimmer. So it is a good guess that water molecules react with the methylamine or amine to cause a dimmer. While I cant prove it.
People need to see it as Postive and NEG ions fighting against each other and less as solubility. Hydrogen bonding plays a HUGE role apparently

The presence of signals in both these regions in the experimental spectrum clearly point to the presence of water in the crystal structure. The difference in exact peak positions between experiment and calculation can likely be attributed to a (slightly) different crystal structure or small differences in orientation of the water molecule with respect to the AMINE.

and over 100+ samples in dutch mdma had water and only 1 was anhydrous

 

[unodelacosa]

my MEH HAD A HUGE h20 peak and a dimmer. So it is a good guess that water molecules react with the methylamine or amine to cause a dimmer. While I cant prove it.
People need to see it as Postive and NEG ions fighting against each other and less as solubility. Hydrogen bonding plays a HUGE role apparently

The presence of signals in both these regions in the experimental spectrum clearly point to the presence of water in the crystal structure. The difference in exact peak positions between experiment and calculation can likely be attributed to a (slightly) different crystal structure or small differences in orientation of the water molecule with respect to the AMINE.

and over 100+ samples in dutch mdma had water and only 1 was anhydrous

Maybe I'm missing something, b/c to me that doesn't make sense. In fact one thing has nothing to do with the other. A water-methylamine complex doesn't really have anything to do with the pharmacodynamics or MDMA.HCl or its dimers as far as I can tell. A much better guess, in my opinion, was @indigoaura's guess that MDDMA is a side-product that is synthed from impure, homemade methylamine that is contaminated with dimethylamine and trimethylamine, both of which act as 5-HT reuptake inhibitors, which would disrupt MDMA's path up the serotonin transporter.

So water is the cause of the meh? The hydrated form is more slowly absorbed?

Come on. Does that sound plausible to you?

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Come on. Does that sound plausible to you?

Not entirely but the simple explanation is enticing

 

[vash445]

Maybe I'm missing something, b/c to me that doesn't make sense. In fact one thing has nothing to do with the other. A water-methylamine complex doesn't really have anything to do with the pharmacodynamics or MDMA.HCl or its dimers as far as I can tell. A much better guess, in my opinion, was @indigoaura's guess that MDDMA is a side-product that is synthed from impure, homemade methylamine that is contaminated with dimethylamine and trimethylamine, both of which act as 5-HT reuptake inhibitors, which would disrupt MDMA's path up the serotonin transporter.


Come on. Does that sound plausible to you?

It can be but but almost all dutch mdma has been crap or Dutch dirt. only one had no water.. maps doesnt use hydrated mdma...the water can play a role of a + or minus done so it could make sense. But of course it's just an idea....

Mainly because my recystalized MDMA that looked like meth clear was more lackluster then even before after recrystaliztion in dH20

 

[w01fg4ng]

Anyone remember finger light shows?

Slow motion in a roll. So many toasts on show. Sunrise doesn't come slow.

Tuesdays, oh no.

 

[G_Chem]

Anyone remember finger light shows?

Slow motion in a roll. So many toasts on show. Sunrise doesn't come slow.

Tuesdays, oh no.

Gloving? Fuck ya. I’ve actually wanted to get back into it cuz I haven’t seen anyone gloving in a super long time and it’s fun to have around.

-GC