• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

What happens when you die?

Sometimes I think that you never really die. Each one of us could have died before we are just continuing in what we think is our life's. Perhaps I died in that car accident that I almost got into a week ago. We all just seem to get out of it but in a different reality we did die, life may just continue on without our knowledge and the event of our death is erased until we die of old age.

But other then that I believe that we return to our existence as god in whole. God is just life's existance in general. All living things together is god.
 
ive heard many reports of NDE, or people dieing than being saved by doctors and saying they saw heaven, felt at peace, etc. the first time i read about it i though that this had to prove exsistence after death, but than i realized if your heart stops and your dead, your brain is still working, and who knows what its doing to make you feel peaceful on the most stressfull moment of your life. does anyone know of a NDE where the brain actually stopped functioning?
 
capstone said:
Its like you are a drop of water returning to the ocean of universal consciousness. If one is not ready for this, they essentially go into a battle with their own ego, those torturing demons, until one realizes these are but old friends trying to help relieve one of their material life's burdens. All that which holds a person back from their next manifestation, the next playground teaching tool for the soul, these are the things with which the human condition has been instilled, holding a person back from being an infinite consciousness.

For some, these burdens are part of the prison that ties them to this planet, and they unknowing return life after life here, ignorant of the fact their soul can remanifest somewhere else. Problem is, its not widely known that everyone is a soul, and their body is the lower vibrational resonance of their manifestation. So death of that lower vibration would simply be the realignment of that expressive energy. Not any end, or rot, only another path on the journey.
Click to expand...

Haha capstone nailed it.
 
prepare to have your mind blown by the next two posts

here's my detailed answer, with graphs and everythang: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=432557

the particles we know of and their behavioral laws cannot lead to qualia/consciousness/"how we see redness" as opposed to how a computer simply recognizes redness because certain switches click. nothing we know of can "produce" or "maintain" or "influence" *qualia* (qualia is the technical term for experience itself, eg redness or sadness)

so i think there's a lot more to the universe that we have yet to figure out. one of the things we'll figure out, is what happens upon death

since something besides what we know is maintaining our qualia, i think that whatever maintains it will probably continue to exist after death -- either we will exist in a dimension where our consciousness-producing entities do not need "bodies", or we will inhabit a new body

perhaps once a soul inhabits a creature, it can become "trapped" in the information exchange network until the creature dies

but i don't see our actual experience of the universe as arising from simply an internal observer observing the information exchanges inside one's brain* (see post below)... i don't see qualia arising simply from information flowing in complex patterns. levers/gears cannot produce consciousness, and there's a paradox with time where "complex patterns" can be put on paper producing consciousnes as well--consciousness that never is born and never dies, does not experience time, and is infinite

so i don't think "information" or "particles" can lead to consciousness itself... there has to be some satisfactory information. since new physics is thus needed to explain consciousness, this allows for the possibility of inhabiting new creatures upon death (reincarnation) or ascension to another universe

further supporting these ideas is brane theory. spacetime itself is an object, and particles are sort of like waves travelling through that object. so space itself is "something", and our universe is a "brane" which is basically a big block of spacetime. it's a lattice, and it's something, therefore zero point energy exists

branes can collide (producing big bangs? ) and interact. fyi gravity is the only known force that leaks out of our brane into the bulk and can influence particles that are on other nearby branes or in the bulk

spacetime is something i think we're going to be probing pretty soon. once we get *past* spacetime, i think we'll be probing what produces qualia. and that'll make for some pretty interested lab experiments. and thought experiments
 
Last edited:
Absolutely nothing happens except for the experience of dying and a change of form. People are under the false illusion that everything that is happening is happening to themselves when in reality it is just the universe experiencing itself. So anytime there is an eye in the universe that sees, thats you seeing. The confusion lies in the fact that u dont see every eyes vision all at the same time. That doesnt change the previous though.

That is why Buddha Eckharte Tolle, Lao Tzu, Allan Watts etc... say that when you achieve enlightenment you never die and you were never born. That is because you are and forever will be/have been now.
Click to expand...
if my soul concept is incorrect and there's no "reincarnation" of sorts,

this would be my second pick. even if the particles we know can't produce qualia, it still makes sense to say that (see post above)*we are the universe looking at itself. however, i'd say it's more than just electrons shuffling, and the universe looking at itself just by how their information shuffles

i still say that's a non sequitur. but if our brains somehow evolved some sort of component made of constituents of reality that we are NOT aware of, or can somehow communicate (send signals and recieve signals, it would need to do both in order to conform to our experience of .. well experience itself) with a component in another brane/dimension where the laws of physics are different and there are particles/things we are not aware of, my idea could still work--

the "soul" would be something we could not say anything about until we learn something about this other brane, or this component made of something we know nothing of. but upon death, it could die just as our bodies die, if the component no longer recieves the energy necessary to maintain qualia. then, we WOULD "absorb into one" and i would say strong AI is sorta true, just not with anything we know of

however, the laws of physics concerning such a component in our brain, would be so wildly wierd/crazy/wtf, if we are saying that electron information shuffling cannot lead to qualia, but the shuffling of that unknown stuff CAN lead to qualia. we're making things more complicated than necessary, and i'd rather stick to the above post: qualia is an actual "something" (maintained by "something", by way of physics we know nothing of yet, as there is more to this universe than we can imagine) rather than "nothing" (maintained by simply having the right information flow.. just a shadow of the inner workings of a thinking-machine/computer**)

** let's say qualia is nothing, it's the universe watching itself. if that is the case, we can create living creatures. we can also inquire as to what information patterns lead to qualia. and we could find that (as alluded in the above post) maybe even patterns of information that are "frozen in time" for whoever is "the ghost observing that pattern" (eg an image on a paper) are conscious... maybe even light switches have some rudimentary consciousness... the universe would be full of this "shadow of information shuffling itself being qualia". i really don't see this scenario though. ( by the way... in the show lexx, if qualia is nothing, and strong AI is true, and "shadows" of patterns of information lead to qualia.... then Kai would be as alive as anybody else. and a lot of the show would not make sense heh)

it seems to me that qualia is "something". it's an actual physical entity in reality, like an electron but different (since it relates to physics we know nothing of, rather than the physics of particles like electrons). when i think about my qualia, it starts to get more intense; when i examine it, it's not -directly- connected to my senses, it's not what i would think a simple thinking-computer-brain would feel like
 
hi guys , first of all i may be unknown to you all, but i wish i be a light friend to you . i have a point on that topic . first , let us think of someone who wanna go to his job early , what should he do? . Yes he will get up early and get in a taxi and go to work. why did he do that ? Yes he did that because he belived that he must follow follow the reasons to reach his point, right. Even , we if we wanna heaven , we must do everything through which we will be deserving to be there. And after that we will discover that the question that " what happens if we die ?" will be a stupid and silly one .
again i'm sorry for my interference but i thought that my opinion may be taken into consideration by you happy guys .
 
^ aside from the rofl-lol translation, i see what you're saying

i don't think that the way we move our physical bodies while alive (that is, our actions and their consequences) would, in any way, effect what happens after death....... why would it?

unless there is a judgemental god... but if god is judgemental, he doesn't exist and we made him in our selfish human image. if god is not judgemental, no need to worry, we're all going to heaven or whatever he decides is awesomest
 
ok you are not at right because God exists and we will be judged . first , im grateful to you to interact eith my message . why did you think that there is no a judgemental god as you say. please add me to your contacts on Yahoo to be more active .

[email protected]
 
i think the tables should be turned. there is no reason to think that there is a god and that we are judged by him when we die

if there is a god and he does judge us... the burden of proof is on you. why would you say that that is the truth? do you have any evidence? otherwise, of course, i could say "when we die, we become a noodle, a noodle on the flying giant spaghetti monster's vagina". obviously, that's not true, but if i feel it is true and you feel god is true, why is the "God's side" more logically appealing? it isn't. you only believe in the god/judgement stuff because you were raised as a child to do so, or society infected you with the religiomeme (don't try to translate that word).

if your society believed in a flying sphagetti monster with human-noodle-vagina-pubic-hairs, well that is where you would be arguing we all end up upon death

--

point summed:
* if god is judgemental, he is not perfect. he was made by humans. and thus he does not judge us upon our death and does not exist
* if god is not judgemental, we need not worry about judging anyway

personally, i even believe that i would "get into heaven" if heaven were to exist, because i think i'm a very good person. but i don't think it does, and part of your god's bible's judgement is to send me to hell simply for having the idea that there is no god--simply for having a certain chaotic patterned arrangement of electrons and cells in my brain. why's god care about the electrons in my brain? he should be caring about my actual soul. ok irony done

>>i'm waiting for you >>

i'd prefer to keep our discourse public (don't even have yahoo). though, let's not derail the thread with a god-vs-spaghetti debate. your welcome for responding to your thread, but it's nothing personal :)
 
Last edited:
what i meant when i asked you to add my e-mail , i meant that i have no time to wait for you adding or reply , so i thought that it will be better to follow " ask and reply " way to make the conversation more active. Anyway , im thinking that you are the moderator of Science and tech ,so our debate will be based on logical concepts. If you wanna have a cup of tea , you will have sugar , tea, cup , and a teaspoon then what ? you will boil the water and mix them all and you will have the cup of tea you wanted. Imagine you put all these content in an empty room , will you have that cup without be made by someone , off course no. Secondly, Imagine i came to your house and told you that while i was coming to you, i couldn't see any houses and suddenly i found the bricks or the woods were moving and organizing themselves to build your house and when i got in your house i found your furnitures were moving to create that great scene that you have in your house , Sure you will say that i went mad , right and you will be at right . Now, can you claim that all the world around you is without a creator, no you will not be at right friend . Thirdly i'm moslem and not a christian . fourth you are my friend so sweet, it is not my purpose . My purpose is to reach with you the right , the truth .
 
Something happens, that's all I believe. Something within us lasts forever, but what happens to it after we die I don't know.
 
sorry abohafs. this is a forum so the discussion is "type away whenever you aren't doing other crap like work or school"

re: teacup, i think most of this community has moved past that logical fallacy. i'll explain it briefly since this isn't a thread about whether the universe was created or not

it *IS* possible for a teacup, water, and sugar, to all "magically" rearrange themselves into the right order so that i have my cup of tea. however, the probability of that happening is very very low (we would need more time than the entire universe has experienced so far, so basically it wouldn't happen)

if the universe is infinite, then you and i are created an infinite number of time, just out of chance. how can something come from nothing? well we've never found "nothing"..... "something" is all around is physically. we cannot reach "nothingness". spacetime itself is a structure, and it has energy (wiki Zero Point Energy). universes can pop out of nothing due to random chance, it just doesnt happen very often. the reason we're so lucky to be alive when that universe is here to support us, is because of the (wiki) Anthropic principle... we're going to be born wherever the universe is, wherever it is hospitable to life

technology is another way to put a broken egg back together and reverse time's arrow of entropy. we can't do it yet, but all we'd need is to input energy to rearrange the chemical bonds in the right way. theoeretically possible. likewise, you would ask how humans came to be on earth. i would answer that the sun is providing the necessary energy, and where there is an abundance of energy compared to the space around it, entropy can decrease rather than increase (aka, things can get more complex rather than less complex, and things can evolve)

hopefully i've woken up another soul today :) but i have a feeling cultural upbringing will win out here
My purpose is to reach with you the right , the truth .
Click to expand...
i'm glad. me too
 
When you die, it is like waking up from a dream. The dream was your life and the reality you wake up in is a higher level of consciousness. Because the higher level of consciousness remembers this dream, there is enough continuity in your sense of self that it is a form of immortality. However, you are also a very different being because this life is just one of many whose experiences are integrated into the higher consciousness. The others include family members, friends, etc., so you are in some sense "reunited" with them in death because you become the same person.

Or something like that.

~psychoblast~
 
NOBODY KNOWS.

Everything everyone is saying in this thread is just conjecture.

Like the post above mine. ^ You just made all of that up.
 
The Philosophical Review said:
How can mental phenomena affect what happens physically? Every physical outcome is causally assured already by preexisting physical circumstances; its mental antecedents are therefore left with nothing further to contribute
Click to expand...
this relates to the life after death issue in the sense of, what is the ghost in the machine?

i think natural cause/effect relationships with natural entities are at play (entities and laws we haven't seen/considered yet) to create our qualia since all of the known laws and particles cannot create a system that creates qualia (since qualia is something totally different than information; information is an idea of an arrangement that cold exist... qualia is an actual phenomenon like a chair or photon that we experience)

as such, we have yet to determine whether we "die at death". brane and string theories allow for the possibility of our brain sending and recieving information from other universes with different physical laws and constituents, and more
 
you think , you decide

First i'm too glad that our purpose is to get the truth . so you said that the cup of tea may be created by a magical power , therefore """""""""""""""""that magical power require someone '"""""""""""""""""""""to use that power to get the cup of tea right. Then i read what you wrote and understood that you wanna say that the human life is found in any kind of universe proper to life . i will accept it theoretical , although practical i disagree , then who makes that universe proper to life? . " Do nothingness create a thing?" and if you believe that we are created of nothingness so " do nothingness create nothingness?"

i wanna you friend depend on your own mind , think of yourself " how do you speak" who is the one who organized all these systems in your body , is it luck , off course no ? we all happen that since we have universe or a being then there is off course a creator . thank you for your patience.
 
>>so you said that the cup of tea may be created by a magical power>>

no. by the natural laws of physics

>>therefore """""""""""""""""that magical power require someone 'to use that power to get the cup of tea right.>>

no. it can happen of its own accord. this is mathematics/physics and has been demonstrated (not to the point of a teacup appearing out of thin air, but enough physical evidence is there that we can say that, conceivably, at some point in the universe, at some time (give enough time), a teacup would randomly appear out of thin air. since you didn't get that i was saying it can happen of its own accord, you should go back and re-read my previous post, with this in mind: no one is building the teacup

>>Then i read what you wrote and understood that you wanna say that the human life is found in any kind of universe proper to life . i will accept it theoretical , although practical i disagree , then who makes that universe proper to life?>>

if there are many universes, and they are different from one another,

then the anthropic principle applies. it's not theory here, it's a principle: life will be more likely to be found among the universes that are more habitable to life. if you don't accept that (and if you consider it theoretical) that's a logical mistake (but since you're religious, that may not matter :))

>>Do nothingness create a thing?" and if you believe that we are created of nothingness so " do nothingness create nothingness?">>

if by nothingness, you mean "empty space(time)", yes, spacetime can and does (all the time) produce "something". what we are calling "something" is physical particles, and what we are calling "nothing" is space... but space itself is not nothing, which is what i meant when i said, we have never been able to find, reach, examine, etc, "nothingness". we are like fish in water in the sense that space itself is a structure

>>i wanna you friend depend on your own mind , think of yourself " how do you speak" who is the one who organized all these systems in your body , is it luck , off course no ?>>

i do think for myself, and i'm glad you're trying to do the same :) (trying to be funny not mean)

it's not luck. it's just the natural course of this universe. the earth peoples in the same sense that an apple tree apples... the universe makes earths in the same sense that an apple tree makes apples. it happens by way of evolution, aka, negative entropy progressing in stages of complexity due to a sophisticated exchage of information between the entity and its environment

our bodies were not designed. god would have put our testis on the inside. more seriously, there are many design flaws that god would not have made (organs that do nothing, for example) and all of these design flaws, when taken into account with DNA, point to other species as our ancestors. no intelligence/being "designed" our bodies in any way, unless we are talking about aliens seeding our planet with DNA or even more advanced aliens seeding this universe with energy and setting the parameters just right for this type of life

>>we all happen that since we have universe or a being then there is off course a creator . thank you for your patience>>

np. would you like me to take your sentences, and write them back to you in good english?

when i see a tree outside, i don't think "there must be a creator for that tree". likewise, when i see this universe, i am mystified as to how it was created, but relying on the concept of god is logically similar to relying on the following concept: a talking donut constructed our universe

they both have equal credibility, and they both do not make sense. in all my experience, i have not found room for the god that exists in the christian bible or other major religions. there may be a cosmic figure that is godlike, but i'm pretty sure there is no "one entity" superseding ALL of existence
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top