What do you think is a possible future for the world's population?

[swilow]

Wish we could have better leaders or begin to form them from our children.

I've wondered what other system we could actually adopt to see us through. Politics is really disgusting to me. Democracy seems to be a sham. But yeah, we need to be teaching children how to make ethical and enlightened decisions rather than how to get the most likes on Youtube.

And we will remain in history forever, as the species that couldn't leave their rock because they were too busy making Gucci bags while they had a chance.

Nice turn of phrase there ksa, well put... I don't think any science fiction author predicted the future would be as self-serving and shallow as our present is...

 

[Ksa]

I went to volunteer yesterday in a 25 stories building of vulnerable individuals. I met a 65 y.o. lady suffering from arthritis, her glasses were stuck together with band aid. When I asked her what happened to her glasses, she said her female neighbor went into her apartment and tried to throw her off the balcony from the 19th floor. She let herself fall on the ground and passed out.

Later on she found out that the reason why she was still alive was that her neighbor, who was jailed for attempted murder, was unable to lift her weight over the balcony bar. There were signs that the screws connecting the bars were tampered with, as she tried to create an opening in the steel bars to let her roll over. I also met a guy who asked me if I was a dealer, said no, then asked me if I was a drug addict, cause there he said, you can only be a dealer, drug addict or a prostitute, and I didn't look like no prostitute he's ever seen.

See, when population increases, there's gona be more shitholes like this. Eventually, it will all be like that. So if you're in the upper-middle class thinking your neighborhood will shield you from life forever, you're wrong. People like that will start appearing, more and more.

 

[Erikmen]

It seems there are already many of slum all over the world living in unlivable conditions.
People living in huge trash communities -- we've gone too far. It has to be some way to make an U turn although I can't see how.
I trust we can possibly stop the violence manage / help the undeveloped countries but too many people are already living in shitholes.

 

[Nixiam]

Other coutries really need to learn how to help themselves. Look at some of the most successful countries and tell me they weren't founded with hardship in it's tears and blood in it's clothes. Most we can do is allow easy trading and such, try and perpetuate their economie's growth. Wish they made growth hormones for money instead of chicken.

However, if we were to lend a helping hand I'd pick a country I thought could lend one back if we needed them. I wouldn't let em borrow money just so they can be in debt and inflate their currency in a futile effort to pay it back, but would takebsome other route. I'm big on systems that have a lot of freedom and benefit both producers and consumers economically

 

[Erikmen]

Precisely!

 

[swilow]

Other coutries really need to learn how to help themselves. Look at some of the most successful countries and tell me they weren't founded with hardship in it's tears and blood in it's clothes. Most we can do is allow easy trading and such, try and perpetuate their economie's growth. Wish they made growth hormones for money instead of chicken.

See, that's part of the problem. You cannot have perpetual growth of a finite resource without having to really scrape the bottom of the barrel. We've become dependant on the economy forever growing and it means we are unable to make rational choices without the duress of this house of cards potentially collapsing. We should be looking at preserving the environment (or at least preventing its decline) as a focus but if we change our reliance on energy and mining, we may encounter a calamity on par with our climate's future. We are stuck in a very difficult spot; if we were to stop mining and use of fossil fuels, the worlds economy would probably collapse but if we continue down this path, we may not have a world at all.

Australia (my country) is emerging from a mining boom. We escaped the GFC largely because of that. But, now that the boom is ending there are real concerns about the future for Australia. We became dependant on the illusion of a plentiful resource and the illusion is being broken.

I consider myself an environmentalist but I think we need to be researching ways of using nuclear energy wisely.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yes, I think nuclear energy is the best solution for the near-term. We should focus on nuclear and simultaneously work on enhancing solar power (solar is the best long-term plan because it's plentiful and endless if could capture it in space or even on Earth in a smartly designed global network - I read an article in National geographic about a team developing such a thing that could wirelessly beam power down to receiving stations). The issues with nuclear power could be virtually eliminated in we had a global power grid, on independent ones on each continent to avoid having to cross oceans. We could build power plants in areas with the least risk of seismic activity, far away from coasts and tornadoes and anything else, and supply the power for everyone. Although of course nuclear power produces a (comparatively tiny) bit of waste, it can be contained and we would stop pouring carbon and other pollutants into the atmosphere. Meanwhile, we'd be working on solar and slowly replacing the nuclear power. Germany already produces over 50% of its energy from solar power with huge arrays. The US we have a vast expanse of desert with nearly constant sunlight.

Too bad the big money is in expendable fossil fuels and coal.

 

[Nixiam]

See, that's part of the problem. You cannot have perpetual growth of a finite resource without having to really scrape the bottom of the barrel. We've become dependant on the economy forever growing and it means we are unable to make rational choices without the duress of this house of cards potentially collapsing. We should be looking at preserving the environment (or at least preventing its decline) as a focus but if we change our reliance on energy and mining, we may encounter a calamity on par with our climate's future. We are stuck in a very difficult spot; if we were to stop mining and use of fossil fuels, the worlds economy would probably collapse but if we continue down this path, we may not have a world at all.

Australia (my country) is emerging from a mining boom. We escaped the GFC largely because of that. But, now that the boom is ending there are real concerns about the future for Australia. We became dependant on the illusion of a plentiful resource and the illusion is being broken.

I consider myself an environmentalist but I think we need to be researching ways of using nuclear energy wisely.

It seems like resources are the biggest probelm for 1st world countries used to fossil fuels and crude oils to make life easier.

Just so you know, when I said other countries I really meant 3rd world. Didn't mean to come off as an arrogant nationalist concerned with only benefit for his own country. Apologies.

I also see myself as an enviornmentalist. I feel that nuclear energy as produced by fission definitely has its place, and I mean more physical than anything else. It is very cost effective in terms of keeping it running, not for startup. Produces crazy amounts of energy. Awesome.

However, fusion is by far a better option, and when we attain it I will be much more fornuclear energy than I am currently. I think it would be great if all these war countries calm the fuck down and build their own fusion plants.

I wanna visit Austrailia. Kangaroos m8?

 

[One Thousand Words]

I have high hopes for the future, particularly robotics and automation.

Reality is very few civilisations have not thrived when their society was powered by cheap slavery, and robotics relieve the ethical concerns that comes with exploitation of human life. While I'll expect some short term pain as many menial jobs are lost to machines, technology's greatest benefit is creation of leisure.

I foresee a future where all our manufacturing, food production and even health care is performed by robots. Rather than creating chaos it is possible that instead we could cloth, feed, house and cure every human, without the need for people to actually work. While I accept some people will waste this free time plugging into VR and masturbating, many more of us would create art, research ideas or help build monuments that grow mankind.

Self sufficiency would be easier if our homes produced all the food we required in a closed ecosystem, powered by solar. Greenhouse Systems exist already which extract only certain wavelength required for photosynthesis and the covert the wasted spectrum towards power production, which in turn fuels aquatic systems for fish production, whose waste products are used in the hydroponics. As these become cheaper and easier to automate it will be possible to feed and power a family with little effort.

Obviously the excesses of current modern life may have to be trimmed. We waste much and recycle little.

 

[Erikmen]

Well, don't want to run away of the subject but I find Sweden to be a quite enjoyable society.
There's transparency. People are polite, everyone pays taxes, low levels of corruption.
Last 200 years of piece. Does not have an independant day -- recently created a National Day but it did never belonged to anyone else.
Now with the immigration, it seems they've got as much people as they could have. Everyone has access to education, health, information about anything in politics. Welfare is quite reasonable. Amongst all countries I've visited I got a sense of respect and education.

I'm sure it's not perfect --but it's a workable society worried about international issues .. clime, help other countries, especially Africa.
And the worst is that people say Swedish people are always very careful about telling good things about them. I know it's a good society.
Not as patriotist, don't show up, 90% is middle class. Simple. Can't that be one good example of a society that is trying to make it work?

I know people tend to dislike when we talk good things about a country but this was a model of society I had for years and years.

 

[Ksa]

^ Sweden has a violent history, and the methods of violence say a lot about the kind living there. Also, I'm not sure if your lifestyle obsession is living in a woodshed, because that's what they have for homes there. Much worst than in Canada.

I can say however, after visiting Malmo, that it can be romantic and you could easily picture yourself being born there and living your early years, no problem.

 

[Erikmen]

You haven't seen the cities like Stockholm? And others more than and few houses in wood.

It's just a pith of how society made it work. The city is the capital and most populous city of Sweden, most populous city of Scandinavian. It's a safe place, good environment with educated people. Violence may have been a reality 200 years ago, but what people have learned about that and turned around it's evolution.

The countryside is innovated, modern and to me very pretty. People's incomes are fair, and the IRS is probably the admired one. Admired by the population for having done a good job in using the tax payer's money.
Don't put it down because it's not as New York or up to your standards.

It's a safe environment to live. And what is the matter with being alike Canadá? Every country has it charm, including Canadá. I'm always pretty happy when I'm in Toronto or Ottawa or in Quebec etc.]

The people are very educated and also feel very safe, fair somehow with income distribution and how we are treated.
I'm trying to post examples of how some society can evolve.

The world has a violent history IMO. What some countries has learned with this violence is what it matters to me.

 

[Ksa]

^ I know, I'm just not fond of how homes are made of woodchip and sold for $300,000 as if they had a steel frame, and everybody from wood choppers delivering raw material up until construction contractors, all get a bit too much down the chain, the final product being overpriced to the max for its material quality.

Like, if you look at roofs, the roof material is just corrugated paper mixed with bitumen, I know it because 100 years ago that's what they were putting on top of woodsheds for chickens and pigs in Romania and all eastern Europe. Human beings had their rooftop made out of more durable and expensive materials that almost never worn off.

Then you hear stories on TV, driver, drunk, drives into a guy's house, in-out, like, goes through the front wall, through the living room, and comes out of the back wall, driving like nothing happened. What kind of protection does that give you if something were to happen. What if someone fired a gun? Where do you take cover? Your fridge is the best bet.

 

[One Thousand Words]

I think the word you are looking for is civilised erikman

Great public and social initiatives require a strong tax base, and this comes only with everyone paying their way.

Corruption and a "me" attitude is not the way forward.

 

[Erikmen]

Exactly.
Actually what you wrote about tax base and everybody becoming part of it is precisely what I meant.

In most Nordic countries you pay more than 50% taxes but you almost do it happy because you have everything you need. The basics, like education, health, structure. It's a system of nets, if you fall down, there will always be another net to get you.

You are right about corruption. I don't like it. And corruption is not only about money is also doing something to someone because you are friends with that person or getting discounts because you are from this or that Ministry. So on so forth.

 

[Jabberwocky]

While we're on the subject of taxes, just finished filing my tax return. What a drag. I'm happy to pay but there is no joy in it whatsoever. I made a mistake in my early twenties that created all kinds of problems for me with the IRS (united states) and now I get anxiety every year around this time. Just take my money.

Anyways, I hope in the future we can look back at the current state of affairs that we call the tax code and giggle at how primitive we used to be. I don't know if anyones heard of fair tax? Maybe it's got problems I can't foresee but I like the idea. Eliminate fillings all together. Anytime money changes hands, government gets a cut, no questions asked. If you buy drugs, tax that shit. If you donate to charity, tax that shit. Tax that shit. Money is for spending, so tax me when I spend it.

I'd also like democracy to mean (within reason) that I have a tiny amount of say in how my taxes are spent, say 5-10% of my tax dollars I get chose how it gets spent at a societal level from a list of options. That'd be more power than any vote I've ever cast. Might get me excited about the system again. Whatever, just a rant now that I've survived another year of tax preparation

 

[Erikmen]

I still find incredible when most of the Nordic society don't mind when it comes to tax payment, not at all.
They initially say well, at least I have my son in daycare, my wife/daughter is going to free University and I can travel to Thailand using money from the Tax Authority who would let me pay back very fairly and on time. They don't give money away but the lent it rather easily because they know everyone pays it -little by little and people can't take so much more than we need. After all we love to travel around and learn languages, culture around the world and how would we do that if it wasn't for IRS.

For me, this is almost utopic. Not to mention you can really, really count with welfare so would the immigrant who lives next door. I don't know why people are not compatriot and are not telling these stories to the world in every occasion as in any other country they would. I guess they are too modest. Seriously, people don't like to show up or to be ostentatious. Except perhaps for very few individuals.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

I'd like to hear some speculation on what you guys feel is likely to occur in our lifetimes (in a worldwide political sense). Stuff like nuclear war and other ultimatums would be entertaining to discuss I believe. What do you think should be established to help turn some hings around? Maybe worldwide philosophies, campaigns, etc. Just what you think will lead to another and how it might end.

MY OPINION
I know a lot of people say that nuclear war will be the end of us, but I think our government (American) and all of its surveillance would be able to neutralize something before it started to grow, more or less. Not that I trust our government entirely, but ai'm not huge on irrational conspiracy theories either. I don't think any gov is stupid enough start a WW3, especially considering the W.O.M.D. some of these power house countries have at their disposal.

Nobody is trying to ruin everything while trying to climb to the top.
But that's just my first opinion, which is likely to change after more thought.

Try not to be suicidal or homocidal whilst the discussion evolves, thanks.

I see extinction in our future. shit happens.

 

[swilow]

I see extinction in our future. shit happens.

You are likely 100% correct. There is very very very few species that survive for any significant period of time. Humanity will be no different. Or we may be around in a few million years though we will probably look like animated, talking plastic dodecahedrons or something.

 

[belligerent drunk]

In a universe driven by entropy, extinction is the only possible outcome. If our universe gets to exist in the state it does now for an indefinite amount of time, then it'll just suffer a heat death, and that means life stops existing. But we'll be gone way earlier than that, I believe.