• HEALTH & RECOVERY
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules Thread Directory 1 Thread Directory 2
    Mindfulness Links Addiction & Mind
    Sober Living Partner Program (SLiPP)
  • H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

What do you consider to be, 'clean and sober'?

I use some performance enhancing drugs for personal weight lifting gains. I dont use anything to escape life's problems as I still deal with life on life's terms.
 
I ask myself: If society collapsed into utter chaos tomorrow would I be able to function properly?

I justify the use of something that can be obtained on a regular basis and continues to be just as sustainable in the event of a societal or economic collapse as it is in a utopian society.

Sounds extreme, but considering human nature and the state of the world these days nothing is too extreme.
 
what comes up under usable then? thats a unique way of tackling this never to be answered for everyone in a neat law.
 
Serotonin101 said:
I use some performance enhancing drugs for personal weight lifting gains. I dont use anything to escape life's problems as I still deal with life on life's terms.
Click to expand...

What? Was this sarcasm? By using performance enhancing drugs you are by NO MEANS dealing with life on life's terms. LOL You're getting unnatural gains...Completely bypassing life's terms. LOL Not to mention performance enhancing drugs affect mood and personality just as much as any other drug...if not more.


As for "clean and sober"... No such thing... Unless you find a way to live without oxygen.
 
neversickanymore said:
what comes up under usable then? thats a unique way of tackling this never to be answered for everyone in a neat law.
Click to expand...

Precisely ;) that's the point.

It keeps my nose clean and that's all that matters.

There is no answer to this thread - it's like asking what is the meaning of life? Everyone has to agree to disagree.
 
I like that..

if it adds to my life, doesn't ruin it or extinguish my soul, and doesn't drive me towards things that do.. I'm all good.. and i could give a rats ass about definitions.
 
GodandLove said:
What? Was this sarcasm? By using performance enhancing drugs you are by NO MEANS dealing with life on life's terms. LOL You're getting unnatural gains...Completely bypassing life's terms. LOL Not to mention performance enhancing drugs affect mood and personality just as much as any other drug...if not more.


As for "clean and sober"... No such thing... Unless you find a way to live without oxygen.
Click to expand...
The reason for which I use said PEDs is not the same as to why I got high. What about drinking coffee to increase alertness? That's enhancing performance. Using ephedrine to lose weight which a lot of people do is performance enhancing. If you really want to argue this point out then people shouldn't use ibuprofen etc for headaches as they arent dealing with life on lifes terms. Or consuming a cough remedy when sick. The list goes on. The root of addiction is generally escapism.
if you partake in 12 step fellowships then you will read "the drugs were merely a symptom of our disease" hence why a person can be in "active addiction" without using and why a relapse doesnt necessarily means a person used, its returning to old behaviors.
 
Serotonin101 said:
What about drinking coffee to increase alertness? That's enhancing performance. Using ephedrine to lose weight which a lot of people do is performance enhancing. If you really want to argue this point out then people shouldn't use ibuprofen etc for headaches as they arent dealing with life on lifes terms. Or consuming a cough remedy when sick. The list goes on.
Click to expand...
I agree with all this...


What I don't agree with is this "I dont use anything to escape life's problems as I still deal with life on life's terms. " By using PED you're escaping life's problems... You're cheating.

I'm not saying this is wrong... I'm saying you're in denial if you think you're dealing with life on life's terms. That's just your ego though.

Mr.Scagnattie said:
I think that's just a little overboard...
Click to expand...

How so?


Edit
But wait a second now that I think about it... All of this is in life so life being on life's terms isn't exactly something you can define as being sober or not sober..... <------Yeah this is what I meant.
 
Last edited:
GodandLove said:
What I don't agree with is this "I dont use anything to escape life's problems as I still deal with life on life's terms.
Click to expand...
I think what seron may be saying here is that he is not using anything to escape from life's problems.. that is using a mind altering substance to escape from emotions or stress or that causes a dopamine release that will log a unsolved problem as solved in the mind.
 
PED can do this as well. Someone not satisfied with normal gains... wants to kick it up a notch... Testosterone boost raises dopamine levels, known to promote confidence. Therefore with this extra testosterone flooding through his system he no longer has to deal with life's problems like someone who not taking an artificial hormone.

That whole statement just contradicted itself... and still does anyway you slice it. Life's problems? Life's problems are to complex to categorize.

Not to mention drugs don't make you escape or somehow magically solve life's problems... Drugs just make it easier to COPE with life's problems. But even still Life's problems come in many different shapes in sizes...So basically yeah... He's using PED to cope with the fact that life just doesn't hand you mega gains over night. That simple.

edit
Oh yeah, again life being on life's terms... Well drugs are a part of life... So taking drugs can actually be looked at as dealing with life on life's terms...and vise versa.
 
.... .. yes and yes!!

herbavore said:
I really believe that this question has to be defined by the individual to a certain extent. In the instance of weed, many people that use it medicinally for sleep, say, would not consider this any more problematic than using caffeine to get going in the morning--and yet both of these substances can be abused and are certainly habit-forming. So, it comes down to self-awareness, brutal honesty with yourself and then feeling good about the opinion you arrive at for yourself. One of the most self-defeating behaviors I see in recovery is the tendency to assume that one size fits all. I don't think it does.
Click to expand...

herbavore said:
Self awareness and honesty with oneself, while maintaining an open mind and tolerance for diversity is so rare in this world. "clean and sober"; the term clean has always bothered me as the flip side is "dirty" which is a word loaded with shame and I see shame as such a powerful hook of addiction.
Click to expand...

i feel these words as they have really been directly and openly placed around such a subjective and personal question of sorts. to me the term "clean" can create confused expectations and negative pressures towards individual perceptions and emotions on creating a balanced life. NA has been a problem for me over the years due the stress of the "words" [clean] - [sober]. holding them too tightly i see it being a compulsive behavior in its self that can be very restricting and judgmental. having realistic expectations of managing and controlling addiction while truly connecting with realizations moved into forward thinking in a personal pro-active manner is positive movement. = progress. that to me is what truly matters. if medical attention is needed, it is needed. if you are an addict you are not suppose to get medical help that requires medication due to the word "clean"?? to me this is not productive thinking at all. being honest with yourself and your medical providers setting deep personal goals while working other areas from PT to OT to CBT in combination with true medication management is tremendous growth to me. that shit feels cleansed to me!!

"clean" ....... "trying" to figure out how to fit into another mold.. stuffy. i just want to leave that word behind. continuing on walking forward..... .


neversickanymore said:
if it adds to my life, doesn't ruin it or extinguish my soul, and doesn't drive me towards things that do.. I'm all good.. and i could give a rats ass about definitions.
Click to expand...

double down.


pinpoint said:
There is no answer to this thread - it's like asking what is the meaning of life? Everyone has to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

^!!
 
Good to see you PRO:D hope you have been doing fabulous.. must be something in the air tonight.. allot of quality people have suddenly materialized to add to all the other quality people.. falls in the air tonight?
 
hey-a.. ... NSA as always it is wonderful to see you and hope you are beyond well!<3 the air is for sure prime tonight, this is my favorite month. where i am living right now this time of year is such a treat. something that really helps me remember the value and strength of the natural connections of this delicate world that surounds... .
 
Never said what PEDs I used. Could be as simple as a pre workout supplement. Or could be an anabolic steroid (as of current no aas usage yet).
 
Defining the wind would be an easier task and in the end why even bother. I know when I'm doing the right thing. I know when I'm doing the wrong thing. The wind still blows.
 
brutus said:
Sober from opiates would include not being on methadone or bupe. It's really aggravating to hear someone say that they are sober and they are on a hundred mg of methadone a day.
Click to expand...

This frustrates me in my outpatient group. People will be saying that are tired or something because they are adjusting to life without heroin, yet they are on 16mg of suboxone for their 2 bag a day dope habit. Then there's another kid saying how it takes a while to feel normal after getting clean, yet he's on 100mg of methadone so I don't get how he can say that since his body still has a high dose of opioids in it.

Don't get me wrong, I think that maintenance drugs are needed for a lot of people to transition from using heroin or other strong opiates to getting clean. I consider it a step towards getting clean, but I don't consider it being clean because anybody who has gotten off of maintenance drugs knows how big of a difference it is between being on them and being on nothing.

So to me being clean is being off of everything, and being on suboxone is being on suboxone. Same with methadone. I agree with someone else that said they prefer to just say that they are "in recovery" instead of clean, and everybody off of their DOC that has made lifestyle changes and wants to stay off of drugs is in recovery to me.
 
Tommyboy said:
This frustrates me in my outpatient group. People will be saying that are tired or something because they are adjusting to life without heroin, yet they are on 16mg of suboxone for their 2 bag a day dope habit.
Click to expand...
they are most likely tired because they are higher off the bupe than the H.


I agree with what you have said tommy.. and if they think it has been a challenge to adjust to life on methadone or bup as opposed to herion.. when they finally realize that their life is stifled by the maintenance and they make the real jump to living a life free of opiates then the will have a different standard to judge adjusting to life with out herion. As you said maintenance is good but jumping on subs to escape a two bag habit will most likely turn out to be a real nightmare decision.. given that there are much smaller doses available the dr that put them on that doesn't know what they are doing IMO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top