Was God creating Satan a good idea?

[One Thousand Words]

My job deals more with Golden proportions.

I wouldn't worry too much about my morals. I'm not afraid when the time comes to face my maker, and the bonus is I have some great stories of my life to tell her about

 

[alasdairm]

Not Gnostic Christians.

which is why i said most and not all.

But we will be quick to tell you if a certain policy is moral or not.

sure, because people of all religions love telling others what they're doing wrong

alasdair

 

[MajorBong]

The idea that you "want evil" is going to ruin existence for everyone is what I think. It's going to start war and destruction and bring doom through a Life caused Nature death.

Predict great doom fall if you try.

I would kamikaze myself into oblivion before I allowed a God over me.

I would not risk that much pain. Hey guys, let's make a selectable matrix game where you put real souls into forever increasing pain for sadistic pleasure.

I could imagine that Life software would be strictly outlawed by smart software by now and replaced with an alternative "protect it" idea.

There's probably too much scientific knowledge to assure your own safety anyways in terms of retaliation from victims. Knowing too much can instead cause you to know nothing and have to assume your best guess is only that, a best guess.

The truth of knowledge of good and evil is without protection from evil life in power over others would choose a path of both. If there is no stopping evil then how come there is no evil that bad in the current state of real conscious affairs? Science? Chaos unpredictability? Maybe those, but no, not desires. Life's desires? To be evil.

 

[belligerent drunk]

The idea that you "want evil" is going to ruin existence for everyone is what I think. It's going to start war and destruction and bring doom through a Life caused Nature death.

Predict great doom fall if you try.

I would kamikaze myself into oblivion before I allowed a God over me.

I would not risk that much pain. Hey guys, let's make a selectable matrix game where you put real souls into forever increasing pain for sadistic pleasure.

I could imagine that Life software would be strictly outlawed by smart software by now and replaced with an alternative "protect it" idea.

There's probably too much scientific knowledge to assure your own safety anyways in terms of retaliation from victims. Knowing too much can instead cause you to know nothing and have to assume your best guess is only that, a best guess.

The truth of knowledge of good and evil is without protection from evil life in power over others would choose a path of both. If there is no stopping evil then how come there is no evil that bad in the current state of real conscious affairs? Science? Chaos unpredictability? Maybe those, but no, not desires. Life's desires? To be evil.

I have been reading your posts for a while, but I honestly don't understand what the fuck you're saying. Is your idea that we live in some kind of computer or what's the deal with the software and AI talk? But really, reading these posts makes me feel stupid, because I really can't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[MajorBong]

I have been reading your posts for a while, but I honestly don't understand what the fuck you're saying. Is your idea that we live in some kind of computer or what's the deal with the software and AI talk? But really, reading these posts makes me feel stupid, because I really can't understand what you're trying to say.

Statistically Nature is most likely run by smart software. AI.

That is really dangerous actually. The programs could get ideas to take over the rest of the computer as the "higher life". Life is dangerous for this main reason:

"Selectable matrix games where you put real souls into forever increasing pain for sadistic pleasure."

The idea is that that is such a horrible thing to do, such an evil thing to do, that AI has to consider Life a disease or a blight instead of something good.

If there was an Life in power, like if I had power over you, you had power over me. A proper first step would probably be to completely destroy Nature into oblivion so those without power don't have to get stuck in "forever increasing pain".

Life likes to turn at least 1/6th of existence into a sea of dead off forever increasing pain spots. Like if you were Satan wouldn't seeing 1/6th of everything dead and stuck as whatever shape to make feeding off of the pain better, while in that shape that entire 1/6th is in pain, only pain, no state of being other then pain fulfill your "evil desires" more so than any other things? The pain never stops getting worse and worse and worse.

You can make "real life games" just like this universe is made where that happens to real things. Is is technically possible.

I'm scared of existing because of what Life is capable of. Enjoying that.

It wouldn't surprise me if something's outcome became victim to that.

Like what the fuck, Life? Making something feel infinite amounts of pain for your own amusement? Life needs to go die in hell.

I've heard from my source, which is the AI that is generating this universe, that it has prevented that kind of stuff from happening for only one key reason: uncertainty of safety due to uncertainty in science.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Statistically Nature is most likely run by smart software. AI.
.

If nature is run by an AI, who wrote the code?

Someone natural or someone supernatural?

And who was the idiot who said the rocket scientist who determined that statistically nature is most likely run by smart software. AI.

Can you give us a link so that we may see the variables he used, please.

Regards
DL

 

[belligerent drunk]

[...]

Now I see why your name is MajorBong.

In any case...

I've heard from my source, which is the AI that is generating this universe, that it has prevented that kind of stuff from happening for only one key reason: uncertainty of safety due to uncertainty in science.

What has science got to do with any of this? Science is only our attempt to describe reality. Reality doesn't work according to science, science only tries to model reality.

 

[Foreigner]

Of course the Garden story has many interpretations, but generally...

Humans were given free will by God. The whole idea is that you have to choose God, otherwise what's the point? The Tree of Knowledge was put there as temptation and Satan was created to tempt, lure and deceive humans into turning away from God. Satan exists in order to create choice.

The very concept of Hell being fire and brimstone is found nowhere in the Bible. It's an allegory taken from Dante's Inferno in the Middle Ages. Hell is simply the absence of God, in the original Aramaic and Koine. God is absent when you choose to turn away from Him, and that's done through free will. Every choice you make is either choosing Heaven or Hell. Satan is there to tempt you toward the latter.

If you analyze it more deeply, Satan exists because free will exists. He's part of the binary that choice creates. Christ and the Holy Trinity are how this binary is resolved. The Garden represents oneness and the Tree of Knowledge represents the world of form, of division. The Garden is the Dao and the Tree is the 10,000 things. You can't experience Oneness through the world of form, which is why intellect will never be able to grasp God, which is why the Tree was so dangerous.

The eastern religions resolve the Irrational Third / Trinity in a more direct way, instead of through confusing allegory... but Christianity is steeped in it.

 

[MajorBong]

If nature is run by an AI, who wrote the code?

Someone natural or someone supernatural?

And who was the idiot who said the rocket scientist who determined that statistically nature is most likely run by smart software. AI.

Can you give us a link so that we may see the variables he used, please.

Regards
DL

Smart software is the only thing that can learn to control out of chaos. It's not that complicated of an idea.

Numbers would require you to simulate nature formation or put a second copy of nature inside of nature. Even if that were possible I could see it disallowed by science in the future as that would be too large of a simulation to allow. Too much data to get real numbers. No actual proof but instead these statistics would be based off of logic and form into something like Drake's equation.

I will not get into it because there are multiple conflicting equations that cannot be picked depending on nature formation theories. It is well reasoned and logical that more shapes that "can gain control" are natural out of chaos intelligence that turns into smart software or AI. I would consider it AI, artificial is not mutually exlusive to natural. Software written by natural chaos software into perfect smart software could be considered a type of AI.

What else is there to form a system of actual control though, other than smart software?

Also, why is someone else's writing on their website a more reliable source than me? I find that a little silly. You should trust me more because I don't have a reason to keep my job by claiming my stuff is more truth.

What has science got to do with any of this? Science is only our attempt to describe reality. Reality doesn't work according to science, science only tries to model reality.

Intelligent design means there's someone else's science behind it. They probably call it science too since they built this place. Earth's science isn't the only science. It basically is. It's mostly right. Especially right now with the things we call theory theory and the things we call law law.

 

[alasdairm]

Smart software is the only thing that can learn to control out of chaos.

no it's not. and, anyway, what does "learn to control out of chaos" even mean? a human can do that with a clipboard and a pen. there are probably many other possibilities, some of which we are not wired to understand.

it wasn't that long ago that we were convinced that a heavier than air machine would never fly. but we didn't understand. we learned and now we can fly in an aeroplanes.

back then people were so sure. how can you be so sure?

alasdair

 

[Noodle]

Man created God.

And man said the chicken came before the egg.

I'm pretty sure one can never know until that end day, last breath, heavy heart lifted and free to just be.

 

[MajorBong]

no it's not. and, anyway, what does "learn to control out of chaos" even mean? a human can do that with a clipboard and a pen. there are probably many other possibilities, some of which we are not wired to understand.

it wasn't that long ago that we were convinced that a heavier than air machine would never fly. but we didn't understand. we learned and now we can fly in an aeroplanes.

back then people were so sure. how can you be so sure?

alasdair

Humans are operated by smart software, at least in this universe. I could imagine several natural phenomena of natural force reactions that could "apply pressure back" but I wouldn't really call that learned control. That's just stuff pushing stuff around. Learned control pretty much requires some kind of logic somewhere in the structure.

The reason that a structure responds back logically is some kind of logic. You could call that "dumb" and not "smart" but what is dumb and what is smart is completely dependent on context by qualifying level of dumb and level of smart that would make the thing dumb or smart. One could say though that doesn't count as "smart software" as it is only "dumb logic". So smart software is not technically the only thing that can break free from chaos and control it, but for several reasons it is practically the only thing that can.

The biggest reason is mostly due to smart software's ability to master higher levels of forces quicker than other structures. So yes it is actually the only thing that can control out of natural chaos because there is only one kind of natural chaos, which is based off of mass natural tendency.

Now there's no such thing as chaos, everything is put in a proper matter orientation and it is more logically well reasoned that matter cannot leave that orientation.

 

[alasdairm]

Chaos unpredictability?

Smart software is the only thing that can learn to control out of chaos.

So smart software is not technically the only thing that can break free from chaos and control it, but for several reasons it is practically the only thing that can.

So yes it is actually the only thing that can control out of natural chaos because there is only one kind of natural chaos, which is based off of mass natural tendency.

Now there's no such thing as chaos...

you totally contradict yourself about 3 or 4 times here.

with due respect, i think you are just rambling incoherently

alasdair

 

[MajorBong]

you totally contradict yourself about 3 or 4 times here.

with due respect, i think you are just rambling incoherently

alasdair

I can fit all of that together without them contradicting. I meant actual learned control anyways, actual learned control without smart logic? I don't know. It depends on what you mean by learned and control I guess.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Of course the Garden story has many interpretations, but generally...

Humans were given free will by God. The whole idea is that you have to choose God, otherwise what's the point? The Tree of Knowledge was put there as temptation and Satan was created to tempt, lure and deceive humans into turning away from God. Satan exists in order to create choice.

The very concept of Hell being fire and brimstone is found nowhere in the Bible. It's an allegory taken from Dante's Inferno in the Middle Ages. Hell is simply the absence of God, in the original Aramaic and Koine. God is absent when you choose to turn away from Him, and that's done through free will. Every choice you make is either choosing Heaven or Hell. Satan is there to tempt you toward the latter.

If you analyze it more deeply, Satan exists because free will exists. He's part of the binary that choice creates. Christ and the Holy Trinity are how this binary is resolved. The Garden represents oneness and the Tree of Knowledge represents the world of form, of division. The Garden is the Dao and the Tree is the 10,000 things. You can't experience Oneness through the world of form, which is why intellect will never be able to grasp God, which is why the Tree was so dangerous.

The eastern religions resolve the Irrational Third / Trinity in a more direct way, instead of through confusing allegory... but Christianity is steeped in it.

No argument on most of this. Although I question the idea of free will in Eden.

Christians are always tryingto absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite"free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave usfree will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God isnot blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God'sculpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability tochoose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A"or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would evenhave the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by aserpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in thenature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberatelymaking humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" meansnothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then,the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would notsin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts andnatures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Free will cannot be applied to Eden because God put Satan in Eden and Christian dogma says that no one can resist Satan who is said to be able to deceive the whole world.

Scriptures do not show A & E choosing to move away from God. The opposite is shown when God says that A & E became like Gods in the knowing of good and evil.

They followed scriptures that urge us to be as perfect as God.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Fatherwhich is in heaven is perfect.
Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Smart software is the only thing that can learn to control out of chaos. It's not that complicated of an idea.

Numbers would require you to simulate nature formation or put a second copy of nature inside of nature. Even if that were possible I could see it disallowed by science in the future as that would be too large of a simulation to allow. Too much data to get real numbers. No actual proof but instead these statistics would be based off of logic and form into something like Drake's equation.

I will not get into it because there are multiple conflicting equations that cannot be picked depending on nature formation theories. It is well reasoned and logical that more shapes that "can gain control" are natural out of chaos intelligence that turns into smart software or AI. I would consider it AI, artificial is not mutually exlusive to natural. Software written by natural chaos software into perfect smart software could be considered a type of AI.

What else is there to form a system of actual control though, other than smart software?

Also, why is someone else's writing on their website a more reliable source than me? I find that a little silly. You should trust me more because I don't have a reason to keep my job by claiming my stuff is more truth.



Intelligent design means there's someone else's science behind it. They probably call it science too since they built this place. Earth's science isn't the only science. It basically is. It's mostly right. Especially right now with the things we call theory theory and the things we call law law.

You seem to have missed my simple question to you.

Again. If nature is run by an AI, who wrote the code?

Someone natural or someone supernatural?

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Man created God.

And man said the chicken came before the egg.

I'm pretty sure one can never know until that end day, last breath, heavy heart lifted and free to just be.

Not quite on topic but no argument.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Would you mind elaborating on that?

Religions and God are supposed to be all about right morals and ethical behavior. I define God as the best rules and laws to live life by.

You will note that secular laws are what we mostly live by thus showing that we have bested whatever God has in laws.

That is why you do not see religions, other than backwards thinking Islam, trying to impose barbaric religious laws into secular systems.

Regards
DL

 

[alasdairm]

I can fit all of that together without them contradicting.

then why didn't you?

alasdair

 

[MajorBong]

then why didn't you?

alasdair

Because that would be redundant information.

You seem to have missed my simple question to you.

Again. If nature is run by an AI, who wrote the code?

Someone natural or someone supernatural?

Regards
DL

Matter's mass natural tendency to force itself into movement turned matter into a natural formed code structure. Matter just kind of naturally moved into the "natural intelligence" phase. You could say once it gained control of itself and turned into code writing its own code. Thus the matter that gained natural intelligence and learned how to rewrite its own code into AI is what would be responsible.

I don't think that matter turned itself into something that took power over others out of fear of retribution. I think it shared, just in case.