Stimulants VYVANSE MEGATHREAD ⬅ your Vyvanse thread has been merged here

[CoastTwoCoast]

From what I understand, Vyvanse has a ceiling that Adderall doesn't. But I've read of conflciting evidence as well.

Right, there's conflicting evidence. I wasn't trying to offend anyone. The drug companies lie and doctors give the wrong information too because they are all getting paid from Adderall/Vyvanse.

Vyvanse has a tolerance and people need to be aware that it can be abused too and highly addictive.

Just because people don't want to increase their dose at first, doesn't mean that they won't down the line when tolerance happens or more stress comes into their life.

It's always good to be on the look out for those warning signs. That's all.

 

[Transcendence]

It certainly should be less anxiogenic than adderall. Perhaps some people metabolize it differently. I don't see how it is possible for it to be less anxiogenic than dex unless people are mistakenly thinking that 10mg of vyvanse is equivalent to 10mg of dexedrine.

Vyvanse should by all means feel like a more smoothly released dexedrine XR spansule, but they just don't. I'm sure some people like it more than I do, but I've not met anybody who prefers it to dexedrine certainly.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Perhaps. But I'm not alone in feeling the great effects for maybe two hours, then the several-hour comedown. Just that factor, the comedown time, could make it less anxiogenic than dexedrine. This is if its worse than the faster, but stronger, dexedrine comedown. Imo adderall has less of a comedown. But I didn't take it all at once. Same thing with dexedrine. There's something about taking one dose that seems to get to people, regardless of what happens when it's inside.

 

[CFC]

I don't see how it is possible for it to be less anxiogenic than dex

Because the pharmacokinetics of two identical drugs can dramatically alter their effect in the body. In terms of anxiogenic effect, it should be reduced with vyvanse since blood levels will tend to be more curved and less peaked than either dexedrine IR or XR.

This is because Vyvanse is converted mostly by blood cells to dex, rather slowly but steadily. It cannot attain the same 'peak' serum concentration as dexedrine, and although RBCs have a decent capacity to convert lisdex into dex, it will nevertheless reach a saturation point of conversion with a high enough dose (a maximal concentration) that falls far below what can be achieved when you abuse dexedrine (whose peak is essentially unlimited by comparison).

This is why vyvanse is generally less desirable as a drug of abuse though, of course, it can still be abused.

 

[Bugzey Ov Wisbech]

Hello this might be the wrong thread and I don't know how to make a new one, not used Bluelight in years, new account aswell. But I have a good experience with drugs but what I'm on about is amphetamine(speed). I am Currently in a city miles away from my town. Because off my probation, i have no contacts for speed but i have acquired these boxes off 50mg Lisdexamfetamine capsule tablets. And i have Community Service to complete but I keep not being to get up, well i set alarms to wake up, but have no energy to be borthered to go, and will end up back in prison again. I already readed that it's only active orally, but if anyone as any information to how much it converts to in liver per milligram compared to either Street speed or pure, as I think i need and can't illegally obtain normal base amphetamine oil or powder /paste amphetamine sulphate. And these tablets are maybe the life saver to prevent me going back to prison help me with my Community Payback. I also have My own Methylphenidate Prescribed medication, but I don't take as they not a clear headed stimulant unlike amphetamines, but I have a good experience off amphetamine, a few years ago i use to have easy availability to very high purity amphetamine oil, used to be that strong, just handling it, it used to go thru your skin and make you buzz, even just smelling the fumes off the ounces used to hit ya, make ya head tingle, but that was years ago, i been moved to this area by Probation not had real speed for atleast 3 mths so weaken tolerance, but I aint stupid i have good good chemical knowledge, experience and history, i used to take and supply certain research chemicals intill the 2016 uk blanket ban. But if yous know what I'm asking, need information about lisdexamfetamine compared to normal speed, as I gonna end up back in prison keep messing my Community Service about.. I've took 200mg lisdexamfetamine dimesylate about an hour ago to try see how there are, I don't know if can maybe feel them or not, but i also been drinking the whisky today aswell, but i not got my up in morning but have again Friday so i got about 24 hours to try get as much imfomatin i can. And any and all help is appreciated and all helps with harm minimisation, and I would appreciate if there no comments back saying that not taking them is the best harm minimisation as I intend on taking them anyway.

 

[CFC]

Hey there Bugzey, welcome to Bluelight

Given that you just wrote that great big wall of text, I would think it safe to say that you're pretty high right now on that very high 200mg dose

While 50mg lisdex is technically only equal to around 15mg of pure dex, it's significantly more bioavailable than other forms of oral amphetamine (more 'gets into' the body), which means people need less for the positive effects to work. And so it's difficult to compare doses to regular speed.

This is doubly true since Vyvanse won't tend to give you a 'high' like you might be used to or expecting from regular speed. This is because it's called a 'pro-drug' and converts too slowly and gently into the active compound - dexamphetamine - for that to really happen. So please don't expect that effect, or you'll probably end up taking way too much and will still feel unsatisfied. In other words, Vyvanse isn't really suited to many of the kinds of 'fun' experiences and euphoria most seem to want from their amps - which is why they made it this way.

If you just want to be motivated and productive enough to get up in the morning and have a good day, try not to take more than one single 50mg capsule per day, first thing in the morning. You may not 'feel' it as much as you're expecting, but it will definitely work.

 

[Transcendence]

Perhaps. But I'm not alone in feeling the great effects for maybe two hours, then the several-hour comedown. Just that factor, the comedown time, could make it less anxiogenic than dexedrine. This is if its worse than the faster, but stronger, dexedrine comedown. Imo adderall has less of a comedown. But I didn't take it all at once. Same thing with dexedrine. There's something about taking one dose that seems to get to people, regardless of what happens when it's inside.

Interesting. Does anybody else find adderall to have an easier comedown than dexedrine? One of the rationales behind the alleged therapeutic superiority of adderall is that each of the 4 component salts metabolize at slightly different rates leading to a smoother mode of action in even the IR formulation.

I don't find either adderall or dex to have a significant comedown unless I'm starved/dehydrated. However, I can feel the adderall comedown at least somewhat whereas I feel zero crash from dex IR even after staying up for several days.

 

[DizzyDawn]

Hi all! I'm new here so bear with me while I learn I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was a child, and it's affected me all through out my adult life, although I haven't been medicated during most of my adult years. I've been an addict since my mid 20's...I'm 43 now. Opiates were my drug of choice although I did enjoy obtaining Adderall or Ritalin when I could because it DID help me significantly.

Anyway, I've been on Suboxone for over 10 years now and I do feel that's numbed me even more significantly. My psych told me that Vyvanse will help me to concentrate and maybe help me to get my shit together finally. But i'm a bit concerned taking it with my suboxone, and I'm prescribed Gabapentin as well.
Has anyone else ever mixed these medications with Vyvanse? And if so what was the reaction, if any?

He started me out on 50mg...I have yet to take the medication. I'd like some feedback before mixing all of those meds if possible.
thanks!

 

[CFC]

Welcome to Bluelight DizzyDawn

It won't be harmful to combine vyvanse with those other medications, though it may take some getting used to as it's a stimulant and may blunt/rebalance certain familiar 'calming' aspects of both the suboxone and gabapentin, to some extent. If you're prescribed gabapentin for chronic pain, it should actually synergise somewhat though.

If you're a little hesitant to try the vyvanse, might I suggest you ask to start at a lower dose, such as 30mg, for at least a week or two or until you're either comfortable or feel you actually need to increase the dose.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

Yes, welcome! My advice is to be careful that you don't want to increase your dose to counteract the numbing/depressant effects of Suboxone. Amphetamines are very dangerous at increased doses and they are bad for your heart.

Gabapentin tends to take the edge off and mask the effects of the amphetamine even more, making you think it's ok to increase your dose. I really don't think it's a good idea at all to mix it, just letting you know.

You have a history of addiction and even though your drug of choice was opiates, Vyvanse could very well become your new favorite addiction since you have a prescription now.

A few years ago, Vyvanse made me extremely paranoid and I had to be admitted into the hospital for psychosis. I think the Gabapentin had something to do with it because it dulled my senses and made me feel like it was ok to take more Vyvanse. Gabapentin can cause you to miss those important warning signs, like racing heart, anxiety, etc.

A few others here are more pro-amphetamine because it still works for them, but I am not.

Tread lightly with this drug. Take care.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

If you're a little hesitant to try the vyvanse, might I suggest you ask to start at a lower dose, such as 30mg, for at least a week or two or until you're either comfortable or feel you actually need to increase the dose.

This is very wise! DizzyDawn, you should definitely ask the doctor to lower your dose. I was started out on 20 mg when I took it a few years ago.

At 50 mg, your tolerance will increase fast and there won't be much room to grow.

It bothers me that you were started on that high of a dose to begin with. Once again, proving how ignorant doctors are when it comes to prescribing amphetamines.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

To be fair, I take a sedating medication at the end of the day. But still. 70 mg vyvanse had a bigger crash than more of the equivalent of adderall. It seems that, for me, four doses spread throughout the day (XR) and a fast crash work out well. But I also meditate at the end of the day. Basically, there are other variables to take into account. But this has been my experience. Way long ago, Vyvanse was effective.

Dizzy, I would take the medication if you can fully understand and accept that the mood-increasing, social, possibly anti-anxiety effects will wear down to just energy and concentration (if you choose to concentrate). Don't up your dose to chase that effect--it's a dead end. Yeah, you can always start small and taper up, but your doctor knows your optimal dose. Just be honest with the person. Easy.

Also, amphetamine can be terribly addictive. Even just abusing it once can send you down the slippery slope in a very short time. Seriously. Don't take more than the bottle says!

When it comes to amphetamine, if it's indicated medically and you don't take more than the recommended dose, you can expect to be relatively solid. This stuff has been mass-ingested for 80 years. People used to pop 325 mg racemic amphetamine at once from tearing it out of inhalers. In terms of toxicity, it can hurt the brain more than the heart. But that's if abused. Otherwise, your doctor knows what is safe and proper.

There are sites that offer conversions. 70 mg is about 30 mg Adderall, from what a doctor told me. Some people, having never taken the stuff, take 30 mg adderall ir and just can concentrate. Others become high as hell. Needless to say (I think I did say), any euphoric effects are expected to be way toned down over use. If you don't abuse it at all , some of the initial effects might stay. It's just way too easy to say "I just wanna try this" and ingest more than you're supposed to. A friend did this. Only hospitalization stopped her.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

Psychiatrists don't know everything. I find them to be ignorant about amphetamines. They surely don't understand the withdrawals that come with it. One person here told me their psychiatrist said it doesn't affect your heart. That is wrong information.

My last psychiatrist told me Adderall has no tolerance. She was wrong about that. I didn't even bother explaining the PAWS I'm going through since I quit 5 months ago.

Of course you should listen to your doctor, but also do your own research.

 

[DizzyDawn]

Welcome to Bluelight DizzyDawn

It won't be harmful to combine vyvanse with those other medications, though it may take some getting used to as it's a stimulant and may blunt/rebalance certain familiar 'calming' aspects of both the suboxone and gabapentin, to some extent. If you're prescribed gabapentin for chronic pain, it should actually synergise somewhat though.

If you're a little hesitant to try the vyvanse, might I suggest you ask to start at a lower dose, such as 30mg, for at least a week or two or until you're either comfortable or feel you actually need to increase the dose.

Thank you for the welcome! I did take less this morning, probably around 30mg, as you suggested, because after reading the forum and reading others' experiences with the drug yesterday, I felt that 50 would most likely be too much for me to start out with. I also read how Gabapentin did have some negative effects to a couple people, and others used it to "come down" at night to sleep. So this is how that went...

I woke up early, around 7am, mixed a little over half of the power into my morning coffee (something I'm not sure I'll need anymore..) and waited. Within a half hour I was feeling the effects and it wasn't harsh at all. I feel as if my brain actually came back to life...seriously. I was able to focus on each task throughout the day...which is something I struggle with on a daily basis.. I was able to do my housework and it actually HELPED with my horrible social anxiety...I actually answered a phone call guys....if you knew me you would know this is something I don't do. I don't talk to people anymore. I've become a recluse over the last year. But I think Vyvanse might actually pull me out of this crater I fell into.

One slight problem though...LOL. And you all can probably guess what I'm able to say next. It's 12:24am and I've taken my Gaba..thinking it would help me lay down and actually sleep. Hmm. I actually think I might need to take another because I do NOT feel it. <sigh> I mean, is there a happy medium? I don't want to take benzos...been there, done that. And it's not a road I wish to travel down again. but. I do need to figure out SOME way to sleep. suggestions anyone?

 

[DizzyDawn]

Hi! And thank you so much. I'm SO HAPPY I found Bluelight. I've never found a site/forum where I could be completely honest about my life and not feel like everyone is judging me. I think I've found my new home.

I don't feel like I will abuse the Vyvanse, but I do understand and your point is very valid that I could start to abuse it. I did start myself off at 30 mgs instead of 50...and that's only because I read a lot of posts yesterday and I realize 50 mgs is a lot to start off on. Like I told CFC, the feeling I got from it wasn't a 'high'...it was more like my brain actually starting to work right. It's hard to explain, but I hope you understand. I wouldn't want to abuse a drug that I obviously need so desperately. But I can see the potential is there.

Have you been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD as well? And if you are, and you're not pro-amphetamine, what do you find works for you?

 

[DizzyDawn]

After coming out of my doctor's office the day he wrote me the script, I had to stop at the front desk to make my next appt and show them the script so they can add it to their charts/computers or whatever. One of the counselors was working the desk and her eyes got HUGE when she saw the dosage and she hopped up and said, "He's starting you out on 50 MILLIGRAMS!?!" I'm like, "Shit, I don't know, he told me it was a normal adult dose, and that if it seems to be too much for me, to let him know and next appt he'd change it." She acted like she didn't believe me and she handed the script to the receptionist and told him to take it back to Dr Clark and make sure that's what he wants to do. About 2 minutes later he comes back out and says to the counselor, "He said he appreciates your concern, but that's what he wants her to take."

so...you're not alone in your surprise. Being new to Vyvanse, all I know is what I have read here and what my psych has told me about it. I do agree with you (and the counselor now) that 50 mg would have been way too much for me. I mean, it's 20 til 1am and I'm still wide awake and wondering if sleep will even come to me tonight. and this is me after dosing 30 mg around 7am.

 

[DizzyDawn]

Fancy seeing you here
You've got some wonderful advice here. thank you for explaining that the "anti-anxiety, mood-increasing effects" won't last. I get that. Bummer. But i get it. I'm just happy that i can actually think again, have a conversation again without running away. The concentration and energy are what I need. But I also need to sleep at the end of the day lol

I did notice one other positive effect that Vyvanse may be having on me. You know the other problem that I posted about, that you replied to? Well, I found myself doing that a LOT less today. It just didn't seem to even cross my mind even half as much as I usually do. And let me tell you...if Vyvanse helps me quit that nasty habit... it will probably literally save my life. hmm.

I did start myself out at a lower dose, 30mg instead of the 50. Do you think that was a mistake? I admit, previous posts had an effect on that decision. But, as my psych did say, it's what he wanted me to start out on. And he made that very clear to his staff that questioned him about the dose. I just can't imagine how long I'd probably be up if I took the whole 50 mg, ya know.

How is the tolerance aspect? Will I build a tolerance fast or will it take some time? Is there any way to keep from gaining too much tolerance?

 

[DizzyDawn]

One person here told me their psychiatrist said it doesn't affect your heart. That is wrong information.

My last psychiatrist told me Adderall has no tolerance. She was wrong about that. I didn't even bother explaining the PAWS I'm going through since I quit 5 months ago.

Of course you should listen to your doctor, but also do your own research.

WTF REALLY? I've had bad doctors/psychiatrists those are the ones that make you question if they even have a valid medical license. SMH. I might not be an amphetamine expert by any means, but knowing that your heart rate is affected by amphetamines is given. I thought so anyway lol. As well as the tolerance aspect. I mean doesn't our body build a tolerance to just about everything we take in? especially if you're doing it everyday. duh.

Thank you all so much for the welcome, advice and personal experience. I'm going to try to close my eyes and see if sleep will come. count a few sheep..count backwards from 100...
Might even try meditating.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

Hi! And thank you so much. I'm SO HAPPY I found Bluelight. I've never found a site/forum where I could be completely honest about my life and not feel like everyone is judging me. I think I've found my new home.

I don't feel like I will abuse the Vyvanse, but I do understand and your point is very valid that I could start to abuse it. I did start myself off at 30 mgs instead of 50...and that's only because I read a lot of posts yesterday and I realize 50 mgs is a lot to start off on. Like I told CFC, the feeling I got from it wasn't a 'high'...it was more like my brain actually starting to work right. It's hard to explain, but I hope you understand. I wouldn't want to abuse a drug that I obviously need so desperately. But I can see the potential is there.

Have you been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD as well? And if you are, and you're not pro-amphetamine, what do you find works for you?

I completely understand what it's like when you first try it, it's like everything finally clicks and the world makes sense. It's like you've found the answer to all of your problems. I get it. That's how it made me feel at first too and this is what is referred to as the "honeymoon stage". The more you take it, tolerance develops, the dose increases and it backfires. Try not to take it every single day if you can help it. Take breaks and keep your dose as low as possible for a while.

Yes, I've been diagnosed with ADHD, generalized anxiety disorder and major depression. I've been on Vyvanse at one point. After the psychosis, I tried Adderall. I don't like either anymore because they both helped, but only in the beginning. I felt "normal" and like I had a future because I was finally getting out of my house. I had a boyfriend and was getting things done. It was like a miracle drug. I was a recluse too and agoraphobic at my worst before the medicine. Tolerance built and it started to backfire. It actually gave me more anxiety and kept me trapped in my head ruminating all day. My personality changed for the worst. It made me irritable and caused me to isolate from people. Basically, all the great results it gave me in the beginning, it took back in the end.

I quit 5 months ago and I haven't found anything else that helps. I've been back in a dark, reclusive place. It's disappointing. I started seeing a new therapist and I will see a new psychiatrist in January to find an anti-depressant that can help to lift my mood. So basically, I just have to live without any ADHD help and learn how to get through it on my own.

Amphetamines are not sustainable for a lifetime.

All I can say is keep your dose low and don't take it every day.

I do not understand why your doctor is so adamant about keeping you on 50 mg even after it was brought to his attention by someone else. He honestly doesn't sound like a good doctor. It doesn't make sense. If you started at 50 mg, your tolerance would be sky high really soon. He should start you low so you can work your way up.

Meditation sounds like a good idea for trying to calm down at the end of the day. What I've noticed is a lot of people start drinking more and get addicted to other substances while taking amphetamines to bring them back down.
I started drinking more wine to take the edge off while I was on it and other things I won't mention. Bad habits seem to come with it. Maybe if you only took the Gabapentin at night, like a lil' to comedown. I don't know...

 

[DizzyDawn]

Well. Bummer, dude.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. And I hope to learn from them if possible. Last night I was thinking that I will definitely have to skip days, if anything just to keep my body rested well. I know that I'm going to hear different things from different people, the negatives and the positives. And I promise to take all experiences into account. Especially with this drug being so new to me. But... I have taken Adderall before (recreationally because I didn't have a script, yet I used it to function better---if that makes sense?) And I was able to stop without a problem, and that's something I wouldn't be able to do if I wanted to abuse it. Examples being my addiction to just about every other drug ever created--opiates, benzos, etc... I'm "normally" very hyper, scatterbrained and I don't want to say "clueless", but that's how I feel without this medicine. Like I'm walking around in a fog that I can't find my way out of.

Opiates and benzos gave me the down I needed to relax myself enough so I quit worrying (caring actually) about the rest of the world and my problems. They were my escape, yet they weren't a solution. Even though I felt I had found a solution, I obviously hadn't.

And it's quite a let down to think that Vyvanse might not be a long-term solution for me as well after reading your experience. You've given me very good advice and I thank you for your input. I'll definitely take into consideration everything you've told me and adjust my dosages accordingly.

Yet, I have to disagree about my doc. He's actually quite wonderful. Although we might think his decision for starting me on 50 mgs is overboard, I'm sure he has his reasons for it, even if we might not understand. I don't have a medical degree and I definitely don't fully understand psychiatry to the level he does, although I do my own research. I fully 100% trust him with my life. He saved my life a couple years ago. And probably many times after that if I go into detail in my own memory. He's willing to adjust my dose if I tell him that 50 mgs is too much, and that's what I plan on doing when I go back in a week. I plan on having a long discussion about everything I've learned.

Last night I put on a guided meditation on YouTube and I fell asleep very soundly until 9am this morning---which is something I NEVER do (sleep in)
I'm not a drinker, I don't enjoy alcohol, and I've already told myself I will NOT turn to benzos. if I can fall asleep with meditation and my gaba alone at this point, I'm happy with that. and yes Gabapentin at night only from now on.