uncut amphetamine sulphate ("base")

[Marmalade]

Freebase phet is an oil. In order to form powder amphetamine, sulfuric acid is added. This is the same whoever's making it, really, amphetamine doesn't form a nice hydrochloride, it's possible to form other salts but uncommon.

Right, so whatever it was I was buying, it was freebase phet oil, with sulfuric acid added (he wouldn't tell me what it was they add to the oil at the time), so it's cool to know. Texture gluey, oily, slightly thicker than toothpaste. Wouldn't freeze at all, still maleable. White

Okay, so at the point after adding the SA (for 1st level distribution), what sort of level does that bring the purity down to? and Is it best for them to use as little sulphuric acid as possible, or would that just depend on how it was going to be distributed and sold on? (ie: to main suppliers who sling it to dealers to cut up further etc ect? )

[edit]
The guy I bought from was one of the main 4 funders for the production. He took a 1/4 of what the crew came over to make for him, then split the kgs down into 1 ounce bags, and then slung those to the dealers around the area, who'd then cut it to fuck with whatever and do their thing and flog it on in 2g bags etc

It is very unlikely that anyone is buying freebase amphetamine at a personal use level, and really I can't see anyone producing speed not salting it immediately, otherwise you're just left with an inconvenient, nasty oil.
.

Yeah, wasn't getting the oil, I was just getting it at the point where the first other 'thing' was added to make it a paste/powder.
The guy did tell me once tho, that in Spain they used to do a similar thing, without adding (the substance, which youve explained as SA) and transfered it as a liquid to different countries in sealed straws (like you'd get at maccy dees or whatever) .. but that's by the by

 

[babylonboy]

The sulfuric acid reacts with the amphetamine base to form a salt, amphetamine sulfate, so as soon as the sufluric acid is added, it is no longer freebase phet, but a different compound. It shouldn't really be understood as cutting, it's a chemical transformation, in which every molecule of sulfuric acid reacts with two molecules of amphetamine. So, of the weight of a sample of amphetamine sulfate, 74% is constituted of amphetamine ions. That's not to say it's amphetamine that's 74% pure, it's amphetamine sulfate that's 100% pure. You would usually add a slight excess of sulfuric acid, but no matter how much you add, the same amount ends being part of the final product, the rest is just left over. Is this making sense?

 

[Marmalade]

Yes kinda. And I understand about the cutting bit too ... when i refered to that I meant the cutting it with glucose/shit whatnot that everyone else slings into it later on down the chain, not the adding of the 1st product to take it from liquid to powder.

So if the stuff I was buying was amp sulfate, of the oily pasty kind, how could I have dried it myself? I can't see it could be done? Without adding something else? ...



That 74% amph ions thing, is kinda comparable with like MDMA in crystal format being 85% (think that's as strong as you can get, no?), or crystal meth/ice being 83% tops (lol breaking bad)

 

[babylonboy]

That 74% amph ions thing, is kinda comparable with like MDMA in crystal format being 85% (think that's as strong as you can get, no?), or crystal meth/ice being 83% tops (lol breaking bad)

Yes, exactly the same thing. In each case, the fact that some of the weight of the compound is constituted by the counterions doesn't mean that the substance is impure. Conceptually, it is possible for any compound to be 100% pure. The levels or purity stated in Breaking Bad, fwiw, are not only possible, they aren't even that impressive for a man who is supposedly the greatest amphetamine chemist of all time, the DEA regularly sieze crystal meth that is 99% pure. People often talk about it being impossible for MDMA HCl to have greater purity than 84%, this is, again, a misconception.

You should just be able to let water or solvents evaporate. Base sometimes does have a strange, heavy, greasy component that doesn't evaporate, I don't know what it is, and there's not much point in my speculating.

 

[Marmalade]

Cheers for that! ...

Re in the base amp sulphate, the strange heavy greasy component I assume would be the liquid oil (freebase), so you wouldnt want that evaporating anyway, would you? Because that would reduce the strength and you'd be left with more SA?

That seemed to be the case with mine anyway. It wouldnt dry (or freeze), and I scraped off all the paste one day from an ounce bag, and put the empty baggie in a glass of warm water (cos I'm a pauper and always like to get the most out of what I bought). Anyway, there appeared to be zilch product on the bag and when I'd left the bag to soak for a while, I drank the contents and damn near had a heart attack. Totally wasnt expecting to get anything from it. So that was probably the freebase greasy almost invisible liquid that had stuck to the bag that came off with the warm water?

I take it most dealers start adding stuff like dextrose (and other stuff) after the initial pure amp sulphate is produced, so the product becomes less paste like and can be 'hardened' so to speak, and dried chopped etc for railing (and then the usual tricks of water and whatever the fuck down the chain to make it appear as amp sulfate, and add weight for profit).

I think F&B wrote out a guide of how to do the separation back to freebase again once? Saw it linked a few times ... warm water/icecubes/and the base liquid then sits on the top of all the other shit thats been added when it desolves. Cant remember 100% now tho.

You've confirmed most of what I originally thought, but with tons more info and better terminology, so ta loads anyway

 

[Sammy G]

Re in the base amp sulphate, the strange heavy greasy component I assume would be the liquid oil (freebase), so you wouldnt want that evaporating anyway, would you? Because that would reduce the strength and you'd be left with more SA?

No, he's saying that the 'heavy, greasy component doesn't evaporate:

Base sometimes does have a strange, heavy, greasy component that doesn't evaporate, I don't know what it is, and there's not much point in my speculating.

Freebase amphetamine does evaporate. Very easily too. So whatever the heavy, greasy component is, it's not leftover freebase amphetamine.

I take it most dealers start adding stuff like dextrose (and other stuff) after the initial pure amp sulphate is produced, so the product becomes less paste like and can be 'hardened' so to speak, and dried chopped etc for railing

The problem isn't dealers adulterating the product to make it less paste-like, but dealers adding water etc. to make it appear more paste-like and increase the bulk. That's why cuts are added. Not to change the consistency of the product, but to increase the volume.

I feel we're going around in circles here...

 

[Marmalade]

No, he's saying that the 'heavy, greasy component doesn't evaporate:



Freebase amphetamine does evaporate. Very easily too. So whatever the heavy, greasy component is, it's not leftover freebase amphetamine.

Yes, I would agree, as its an oil, but you wouldnt WANT it to would you?

And I disagree about the greasy component on the stuff I bought not being left over freebase. It was invisible, it looked like nothing was there ... it's very conceiveable that if amp sulphate is left in a bag the stickiness of the liquid oil it was made from could stick to it in some way ... there was nothing else in the product. So if it wasn't that, then it's whatever else is produced in the stages of production of making freebase amp and SA being added to make amp sulphate

Please leave it the Babylonboy to answer further . You just complicate matters.

 

[Sammy G]

Yes, I would agree, as its an oil, but you wouldnt WANT it to would you?

Wouldn't want what to evaporate? The greasy component which doesn't evaporate and isn't freebase amphetamine?

I give up. You're not reading people's posts, you're just looking for somebody to confirm your suspicions.

 

[Marmalade]

I give up.

Thank FUCK

Oh, I'm very much reading Babylons, thankyou.

Youre right tho, I really didnt wish to read yours. I value his opinion. He knows what he's talking about. If I'm talking shite I'm more than willing to be corrected, WANT to be corrected in fact. Just not by you.

 

[Sammy G]

Youre right tho, I really didnt wish to read yours. I value his opinion. He knows what he's talking about. If I'm talking shite I'm more than willing to be corrected, WANT to be corrected in fact.

Are you six years old?

You've already been told several times that what you've been buying is undried sulphate, and the wetness / oiliness / gooiness has no bearing on potency whatsoever. If you don't fancy reading my words (your choice) then at least allow me to provide you with this link.

PS: You smell.

 

[Marmalade]

I'm off out. I thought you'd given up? You just can't help yourself. I dont want your opinion on this matter, I dont value it and it's pointless. I know who BabylonBoy is and I know he knows what he's talking about. Let him answer my questions and tell me I'm talking shit. I'll believe him, and he'll say it in the right way with good info

Stop going on

 

[Sammy G]

i dont want your opinion on this matter, i dont value it and it's pointless.

Right. :D

stop going on

 

[babylonboy]

If you were producing amphetamine sulfate, you would add an excess of sulfuric acid, that is, the quantity of amphetamine is the limiting factor. All of the amphetamine reacts to form amphetamine sulfate, none of it is left as the oil/base/freebase. There is no way that the salt would then separate and form amphetamine base and sulfuric acid under anything like normal conditions. There isn't any way that you'd end up with amphetamine evaporating and leaving sulfuric acid behind.

It seems likely to me that the majority of the wet/paste form speed that is distributed does not contain any base amphetamine, but is amphetamine sulfate with liquid diluents/contaminants. Of course, I can't speak for all the speed that has ever been sold, some of it might be/have been base amphetamine with solid agents added to it to make it a workable solid, some of it might even have contained both freebase speed and salts, some of it might be salts other than sulfate. I believe Shambles used to procure amphetamine base directly from a chemist. What is certain, though, is that most speed being sold, both dry and as a paste, is indeed the sulfate salt.

The simplest way to test this would be to dissolve the speed in water and add a non-polar solvent (lighter fluid/naphtha/toluene etc), then shake it up real good and put it in the freezer. Once the water has frozen, pour off the solvent, and let both that and the water evaporate. You can then test which one had the amphetamine in it (with chemistry or old-fashioned taste test), if it's the water, the amphetamine is a salt, if it was in the oily layer, it was base.

 

[Marmalade]

If you were producing amphetamine sulfate, you would add an excess of sulfuric acid, that is, the quantity of amphetamine is the limiting factor. All of the amphetamine reacts to form amphetamine sulfate, none of it is left as the oil/base/freebase. There is no way that the salt would then separate and form amphetamine base and sulfuric acid under anything like normal conditions. There isn't any way that you'd end up with amphetamine evaporating and leaving sulfuric acid behind.

It seems likely to me that the majority of the wet/paste form speed that is distributed does not contain any base amphetamine, but is amphetamine sulfate with liquid diluents/contaminants. Of course, I can't speak for all the speed that has ever been sold, some of it might be/have been base amphetamine with solid agents added to it to make it a workable solid, some of it might even have contained both freebase speed and salts, some of it might be salts other than sulfate. I believe Shambles used to procure amphetamine base directly from a chemist. What is certain, though, is that most speed being sold, both dry and as a paste, is indeed the sulfate salt.

The simplest way to test this would be to dissolve the speed in water and add a non-polar solvent (lighter fluid/naphtha/toluene etc), then shake it up real good and put it in the freezer. Once the water has frozen, pour off the solvent, and let both that and the water evaporate. You can then test which one had the amphetamine in it (with chemistry or old-fashioned taste test), if it's the water, the amphetamine is a salt, if it was in the oily layer, it was base.

Cheers Babylonboy. Yeah, this 'crew' I bought from travelled from country to country doing their thing. One was a chemist too I believe

I agree about the bit in bold too, based on the speed that I buy now. The stuff I was refering to originally was something that was only available when bought from them (before they then flew off and did their thing in the next place)

Haven't found anything close to it in quality or consistency since. Doubt I ever will either unfortunately

 

[Sammy G]

Did you get this bit:

All of the amphetamine reacts to form amphetamine sulfate, none of it is left as the oil/base/freebase.

So any oily residue in your sulphate consists of impurities and nothing more. Unless what you're buying isn't sulphate at all, but freebase which has been adulterated somehow in order to make it saleable. Which is unlikely.

 

[Marmalade]

I can read. Go away.

 

[Sammy G]

I can read.

Ah! So you'll know we're right back at post #7 then?

Go away.

Suit yourself...

 

[deano88]

Lol this thread! :D

Getting a bit technical for me but interesting tho. Just want the Christmas and New years holidays to hurry up so can get on it!

 

[Treacle]

I fairly recently used a pan of boiling water, with a plate on top, to dry some liquidy speed on. It went from wet, to really thick, then turned into clumps, which couldn't be chopped up. I left it to cool/dry, a bit more, and it turned back into goo. With more heat, it went back to sticky clumps, then back to a totally unworkable goo. I've no idea why this happened, but I'm sure I let it get far too hot, as it seemed to be bubbling away, when I took my eye off it.

A long time ago, I'd turn on my electric hob, to get it nice and warm, then turn it off, and let the stuff dry on it. One particular weekend, I put a couple of grammes on there, and forgot to turn off the hob. The result was a partially melted baggy, with a small amount of caramel-like shit (burnt glucose) inside it. I just ate the stuff, thinking I'd ruined it. It tasted foul, as well. I was awake for a full weekend. I think my point is be careful what amount of heat you use, as you might just be left with something that's only good for bombing, and it might be a lot stronger than you expect. The above advice of spreading it as thinly as possible on a warm plate, and leaving it, seems to be the best way. It should dry quite quickly. Or, if you have a day or two to spare, just leave the bag open, in a warm place, and it should dry to something you can crush and snort.

 

[Bearlove]

I have only used a warmed plate to dry my stuff out on for that reason . I think I've mentioned this before but - I once got a bag of really wet putty like base. It was in one big clump but covered in an oily substance (and the oil was quite thick on the top of the bag upto where it was tied). I took out my clump of base to dry and covered the bag (and oil) in boiling water - washed the bag and drank the water. I was so wasted :D.