• 🇬🇧󠁿 🇸🇪 🇿🇦 🇮🇪 🇬🇭 🇩🇪 🇪🇺
    European & African
    Drug Discussion

    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

The UK benefits system

Vurtual said:
^ukip won, according to the media (even though their share of the vote was down 6%, they got no councils, while labour's share was up)
Click to expand...

Yes and let's not forget the Daily Mail headline the day after the council elections. Elections where Labour put their share of the vote up and gained 300+ seats in a performance that far exceeded any other party. The Daily Mail headline?

THE SAVAGING OF RED ED.

Now, I can't stand the fucking Labour Party, class traitors/revisionist pile of wank (take your pick) that they are and have been for the last, ooh, 80 years or so. And I can't stand Ed Miliband, ineffectual pile of wank as he is.

But if you want to live in a fascist country ruled by Daily Mail headlines, here's your chance.

Labour vote up (UKIP vote down) Labour the only major party to gain seats (300+) Labour the only party to show an overall gain in actual councils...

...THE SAVAGING OF RED ED.

That's fascism, right there.

Burn it down.
 
^right on. It's amazing the media coverage of the election results - most of them managed to mention the "ukip share down 6%" somewhere (blink and miss it), but the doublethink was in full force and it still felt like a ukip victory when you watched the reports; especially the bbc. Of course, the 'clever' news (newsshite etc) were a bit more nuanced but not much.

And i had to look hard to find out the greens gained seats and control of a council. (and who knew about 'nhs action' if you only watch national telly?).

The euro election results later today will probably be better for farridge - though if bob crow's NO2EU party had equal media boosting for the previous 5 years it would have been a very different story (most people don't even know there's a left wing/anti-EU option)
 
THECATINTHEHAT said:
What are your opinions? Do we give people too much? Not enough?

I'm pretty set in my opinion but I'm interested to hear what the demographic on this board thinks.
Click to expand...

At this moment in time im absolutely disgusted by our benefits system. I'm a single parent and due to my baby only being 3 month old I cant work yet, I wish I could because I despise being on benefits.
So everything started out fine for me, I was on income support and housing benefit, but when my child was born I needed to claim child benefit and tax credits so i had enough to live on. However, due to the area I live in the council told me I can't have tax credits and must transfer over to universal credit. So I applied for universal credit, however due to struggling to pay bills because I was waiting to be transferred over I got told by the job centre I could apply for a first months advance to get me through. But when i went to apply for this they told me no i cant have it and then proceeded to tell me i need to cancel my income support or i cant have the universal credit either. So i cancelled my income support as asked and they still wouldnt give me the advance so im now living on £20 a week (child benefit) which goes towards buying my babys formula and anything else he needs. Things like gas and electric i cant afford and i cant afford to eat or pay any bills. And i asked the universal credit to help me and they said theres nothing they can do. Now however ive been told i cant have my housing benefit either because i cancelled my income support. So what am i supposed to do ? I cant have universal credit if im on income support and i cant have housing benefit if i havnt got income support? So im stuck living on £20 a week for god knows how long because they wont let me have the advance to help me get through. And they are taking their sweet ass time sorting out the universal credit. Oh and it gets better, they even charge you for ringing them as well :) .. so they make me live on £20 a week and then charge me to ring them for any advice or help i need. Well thanks. Most of you will probably tell me to go get a job but ive just finished college and I dont see how i could get a job when i have a three month old son and no one else can look after him but me and i cant afford to eat let alone pay for child care. So im stuck in the shit. I want a job more than anything because ive been screwed over by the benefit system. They want me to get a job too... well then help me out and i will get one.
 
No body on here is likely to judge you for claiming benefits - I personally have been out of work for 4 years after entering methadone treatment and they made it as difficult as possible for me to renew my claim once it ran out in the new year. It took me 2 months to get it re - instated and although I cannot offer any advice on your complex situation they are currently making life as difficult as possible to deny folk money they need to live on any which way they can.

I can understand the UK benefits system has a historical history of abuse ('dole dossers') - a relative of mine managed to claim sickness benefits for himself, and his seven child family for his entire working life (he is 'retired' now). I know I am as bad as anyone for sponging money for a self inflicted illness but I hate being out of work - I have worked full time since the age of 17 (I am now 38 ) with the exception of one episode of unemployment that lasted for 15 moths over the 2008 / 2009 period, until I had to resign from my last job prior to my relapse into opiate dependency in 2013.

You need an experienced advocate (such as someone from the Citizens Advice) who can help you in this area but like the support payments themselves, the 'benefit experts' which used to be a feature of most health or social care services are now impossible to access as they have all been fired due to cost cutting in these areas.
 
I wonder how much it costs to administer the system -- working out exactly how much each person is entitled to, making sure nobody claims any more they are entitled to, and so forth.

It would be a whole lot simpler just to give everybody £200 a week, and a council house if they want it. Checking you have paid someone only once is a much simpler problem than working out how much they deserve. And enough people would soon tire of living on such a bare minimum, that they would actually get jobs and buy their own houses of their own accord.
 
Definitely get down to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, they can be very helpful.

BecomingJulie said:
It would be a whole lot simpler just to give everybody £200 a week, and a council house
Click to expand...

A basic minimum income, like a basic minimum lifestyle, should be a guaranteed right of any citizen/national. The idea people won't work is absurd, since 'minimum' is hardly going to be a gratifying sum, and nor will it satisfy most people's desire to do something with their life.
 
Call me cynical, but the secret is to have at least 3 kids, all with a 'disability' like ADHD and be a good liar. Seems to work well for all the fuckers round my way.

If you're honest and employable, you get fuck all. Be a lying, cheating lazy unemployable imbecile, and it seems like you get what you want.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
it seems like you get what you want.
Click to expand...

I think the latest estimate was that 0.4% of benefits claimants are fraudulent, and apparently all appearing on Channel 5 programmes.

But anyway would you want to live like that? It seems they have pretty shitty lives, no matter how they go about getting it.
 
f.u.b.a.r. said:
call me cynical, but the secret is to have at least 3 kids, all with a 'disability' like adhd and be a good liar. Seems to work well for all the fuckers round my way.

If you're honest and employable, you get fuck all. Be a lying, cheating lazy unemployable imbecile, and it seems like you get what you want.
Click to expand...

^qft
 
CFC said:
I think the latest estimate was that 0.4% of benefits claimants are fraudulent, and apparently all appearing on Channel 5 programmes.

But anyway would you want to live like that? It seems they have pretty shitty lives, no matter how they go about getting it.
Click to expand...

Oh don't get me wrong, I've claimed benefits before, and fraudulently for a while I must admit. But it wasn't sustainable because I'm no good at playing the system and as you say, we didn't really want to live like that. But a lot of the people I know have kept it up for years, drive decent cars and go on holidays abroad. We haven't had a holiday for 6 years, and that was a shitty caravan in Wales paid for by the in laws (and they were there as well) because we were both out of work. The irony is that now we're both working, we've got no more disposable income than we had then and still can't afford a holiday. I honestly believe that some people get away with it because they are so utterly unemployable that the system basically pays them off and pretends they don't exist - and it's the genuine ones like LillyAnne a few posts above who pay the price.
 
Last edited:
F.U.B.A.R. said:
I honestly believe that some people get away with it because they are so utterly unemployable that the system basically pays them off and pretends they don't exist - and it's the genuine ones like the OP who pay the price.
Click to expand...

I will happily pay my taxes towards keeping unemployable/fucked-up people off the streets, though I'd rather - for that help - they were drafted into doing useful things for their communities/society, and not just receiving benefits to sit around and decay.

However the point you make is extremely important because it underlines the fact that 'average' wages for ordinary working people just aren't high enough, and have fallen on average since the 1970s.

So rather than us rounding on unemployable scroungers who live on benefits and making them our scapegoats, we should be blaming the ultra-rich 0.01% for fucking all of us over and instead taking (a) more money back from those leeches in terms of wages, and (b) making them pay their fair share of taxes.
 
CFC said:
I will happily pay my taxes towards keeping unemployable/fucked-up people off the streets, though I'd rather - for that help - they were drafted into doing useful things for their communities/society, and not just receiving benefits to sit around and decay.

However the point you make is extremely important because it underlines the fact that 'average' wages for ordinary working people just aren't high enough, and have fallen on average since the 1970s.

So rather than us rounding on unemployable scroungers who live on benefits and making them our scapegoats, we should be blaming the ultra-rich 0.01% for fucking all of us over and instead taking (a) more money back from those leeches in terms of wages, and (b) making them pay their fair share of taxes.
Click to expand...

Agreed, agreed and agreed - all points.
 
CFC said:
Definitely get down to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, they can be very helpful.



A basic minimum income, like a basic minimum lifestyle, should be a guaranteed right of any citizen/national. The idea people won't work is absurd, since 'minimum' is hardly going to be a gratifying sum, and nor will it satisfy most people's desire to do something with their life.
Click to expand...

The way the system works at the moment most people, unless they're extremely fortunate, have to spend virtually their entire lives working for someone else to pay for the things that should be granted at the start of life, i,e a home, a secure base of operation. Doing shitty meaningless jobs for a boss and paying taxes towards a system which does nothing else but keep them and their children enslaved. A lifetime of watching their youthful ambitions and hopes fade away. People shouldn't have to pay for food, water, & energy. These are things that that are ours by right. They shouldn't be the property of some ruling class to be distributed only to those who bow the knee. There is abundant wealth out there and technology to make all our lives much easier and yet so many of us are so tired after a day of commuting to work (and paying to travel there, to add insult to injury) that we don't have the energy or the time to pursue our own interests.
 
In a nutshell, I think the only ones who benefit from the UK 'benefits' system, are those that don't deserve it. Anyone who genuinely needs help is leaned on so heavily and made to navigate a ridiculously and unecessarily complex Mish mash of bureaucratic red tape, whilst jumping through hoops blindfolded, with their hands and feet tied together, all the time being told they will be better off working - which is a blatant lie unless you earn significantly more than the so called 'living' wage.
 
The so-called "benefits system" really only benefits exploitative corporations by ensuring that there is always a large pool of desperate people who have no choice other than to compete for jobs which pay a pittance. To claim Jobseeker's allowance you basically have to declare yourself as a worker who is prepared to do just about anything to get the measly "benefits" on offer. As a jobseeker you have virtually no rights to refuse employment on any grounds whatsoever and will have your money withdrawn at a moment's notice at the discretion of your personal advisor. When you claim anything from the state the state owns your life.
 
Also, don't forget that there has been chronic underinvestment in manufacturing industry for over a generation now. It's cheaper to buy stuff from China and ship it halfway around the world, than it is to make it locally. This is because we have strict standards for the working environment; fair wages, adequate food, water and toilet breaks, proper safety equipment, and you can't just dump shit out in the countryside or in the rivers or sea. Compliance is expensive. Yet somehow, we think it's O.K. to treat workers in other countries in ways that we have already decided it is not O.K. to treat our own workers.

Then when you do get a job, you suddenly have to start paying for things that used to be free; and you have to start buying things that you used to be able to make for yourself. You can be worse off working than on the dole. And there isn't much anybody can do about it, when there are so many people ready to replace you if you complain .....
 
The Green Party in England and Wales have had the "Universal Basic Income" as a key policy for over a decade now.

Worth noting (as with several Green policies) Jeremy Corbyn is now seriously investigating taking it up as a Labour Party policy too.

Labour sets up 'working group' to investigate universal basic income, John McDonnell reveals

I'm not sure if it is also designed to replace the current welfare system, but it certainly would make sense if means-tested.
 
spacepostman said:
I'm not sure if it is also designed to replace the current welfare system, but it certainly would make sense if means-tested.
Click to expand...
NO! Means-testing is the problem. It creates all those awkward corner cases, where people end up worse off in work. Scrap means-testing and pay everyone the same.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top