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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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dopiejay- 20 mg Valium isnt much. If you really want to quit, research the Ashton method. Its a tapering schedule for quitting Benzos using Diazepam without significant withdrawals, and definitely no seizures. At 20 mg you could be done in 3 months.
At some point you will have to confront your panic attacks though. Maybe you will want to stay on a Benzo for that, but perhaps switch to a fast action one like Lorazepam. That way you can dose only as needed and possibly avoid the long term effects of daily use.
 
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You could also consider clonazepam considering the chronic anxiety.

Valium and klonopin work well for that. I like my valium and xanax for the attacks.

Probably, a lot of valium has built up in your system too. I was recently researching this. Apparently after one week of using diazepam, one of its active metabolites begins to accumulate in the body called nordiazepam. The metabolite is stronger than the diazepam itself, and the both accumulate, probably with other metabolites too I think tenazepam is in there haha. Valium is a lil messy I like it, has some character to it.

Ya tho so after one month of a daily valium dose 8 times that dose has built up in your system. The effect of the valium builds so if you are dependent then there is much more in your system which might account for the withdrawal. It's also good though, because if you have diaz in your system like that a seizure risk is significantly reduced. I take my valium mainly so that I pretty much know I won't have a seizure. But I really like them it would be nice but a challenge to switch to only val.

I couldn't feel val doses like yours until a week had passed and even then it was weak. Eventually it becomes effective for chronic anxiety.

Crashing from a 3 day coke binge (ala that manson song 3rd day of a 7 day binge or somethin lol), exhausted from benzo wd's, back hurts, haven't been sleeping for a long time, and I lost some weight but I think that all this hot yoga is making my body much better at dealing with stress. That post acute withdrawal will maul you like a bear in the mountains sometimes though. And like one dispensary dude said tonight, I better get used to it because it never goes away.
 
thanks for the replies guys. ya the val is all scripted just expensive as fuck and can kinda turn me into an asshole. I wasn't always on only valium and wasn't always at 10-20mg a day either. I remember (barely) going completely overboard with like 4 or 5 valium and 3 or 4 2mg Xanax bars along with like 1600mg of gabapentin before an hour and a half flight. about all i remember is stumbling around the airport visibly very fucked up. getting down to 10-20 has been a challenge.

can't take clonazepam because I kept having too many damn car accidents. found it much more inebriating than valium.

good to see you're back shroomy kinda got a little scared for u there. benzo addiction is hell. all the kids popping bars nowadays remind me of me and my buddies sucking the coating off of oxycontin in high school and flying through school high. too bad now most of them are dead or hopelessly drug addicted. sad to see it happening all over again to another naive generation.

edit: by the way shroomy lay off the damn coke! I never had a drug fuck with my head so bad in my life and that's saying a lot. after a hard and heavy bender I quite literally feel like I'm losing my mind for days after. this only started after my benzo addiction as well I never got like this before (coke addict for 10+ yrs)
 
Scripted val expensive? Weird.

I find valium hard to notice until I stop taking it. It makes me a little tired, which is okay because I enjoy espresso, coffee, and various teas. Not all benzos do this effectively enough for me to have caffeine. When I first started taking klonopin it made me feel so strange. So out of it and I'd pass out off small amounts or get too tired to do anything. I hated it but for a couple years it was the only one I took and I was highly functional. I can't take it anymore I don't feel it... I feel like it messed me up a bit long term, clonazepam specifically in ways.

It's insane I had no idea. Why are teenagers even interested in "zans"? It seems like they are socially acceptable and so naive. There is no getting through to most of them though. When I was that age I smoked pot all day and got drunk on the weekends? Whatever happened to kids being kids without these hard drugs. These are chill stoner type people too I just don't understand what the appeal is in xanax unless there is extreme panic / anxiety going on. They may as well be snorting smack if they are abusing those and at a young age that will fuck you up. I don't really understand this new generation. I think the oxy thing at least makes sense why people would want to use them at first.

Was really nervous all week not good for my health. Time to focus on that. Felt like I was on the verge of a seizure the whole time so shaky and I had to do stuff until I couldn't anymore and people are giving me some space. The rest of the week will hopefully be nothing but mellow stuff.

Yeah I'm out of coke now, had a half gram total in the past 6 months and it is out of the question to use it due to the cost and the crash and how I don't even like it.
 
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At least I am keeping track of my use now. Generally every 8 hours I dose and take a val in the morning. Try to keep it to one xanax but considering how much I've been taking... that is tough but doable. I had my first wonderful sleep in ages yesterday, Not sure how long I slept, crashed so hard at least not sitting on the couch again made it to bed.

Getting off them where I'm at with opiates right now isn't really in the cards. I was losing so much weight really quick, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, the paranoia was getting horrible too. I was getting delusional, looking back, I'm making new friends and sensed threatening incentives with no basis whatsoever. All my friends are chill though or they wouldn't be my friends. Hot yoga 5 times a week to zero and that is a major support system for me. I can't do it without the meds. Everything seems like a threat. Fuck that at this time of my life there is way too much stress from getting off smack last year and then oxy this year so far.

I really think etizolam is garbage and lots of people are developing severe habits with it. It releases prolactin in men well increased levels. That can lead to such nasty side effects, sexual ones as well. I will never use it again. It is like the least sedating benzo and very euphoric and very short acting and tolerance increases way quicker than regular benzos. It's shit. It's the worst one of them all at least for me. The sociability reminds me of opiates. Fake. I like to be real but yeah etizolam changes the way I socialize and I have finally realized not in a good way. Having a benzo in powder form is a disaster waiting to occur. At least I have none of that shit and real pills. I'll be good there has to be a reason for this other than me being stupid. Like today, low energy from the coke, whatever. I think I'll have my first coffee in a while to start the day.

Coke isn't really a panic freaks thing I'm glad to be out. If I come across quality randomly again in like 6 months I wouldn't hesitate it's probably the one hard drug I have always used in moderation apart from a couple little binges for a week or so. I didn't crash too! I feel great today. I was keeping hydrated and well I couldn't really eat much, I think it's cause it was a half gram over three days that really isn't much. Reminds me of the little key bumps of smack that initially were straight up heavenly and could barely feel anything up my nose the doses were so low back then.

Woke up late but yeah... I forgot I don't have anything to do today! I got a few g's of hash, enough benzos to feel safe for a while, a rough experience that led me to realize that I was using too much for no good reason. I actually have money now too since I don't spend it all on drugs. Getting my roots touched up soon and a cut and tone pretty psyched.

lazybones today. Gotta focus on my health today and destress.
 
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Feeling so mellowed out today. No more benzo withdrawal, a tiny coke crash, no more coke definitely really happy about that. Still allowing myself to be anxious, low energy, switched up the coke for earl grey tea this morning. Just gonna chill, read my book, and sesh later with good herb and hash and friends.

Alprazolam is a really good one for me to be taking along with a val. Anxious since I'm dosing low, but physically more chilled out.

Just happy that nothing serious happened. Had a good sleep last night. I forgot to smoke pot for so long I have less of a desire to all the time now. I can eat food without it now. Still can't sleep without it though, perhaps this will lead me to keep it to evenings as the only real reason I smoke early on is so that I am able to digest food but I'm hooked now. Yeah it can be very addictive too, believe it or not.
 
I find benzos, especially Xanax, after being on them for a few years have really fucked my brain up. I think the coke started it for me (8ball every day or two, 2 yrs) and the benzos were the kicker. feel like I'm losing my shit half the time now. wouldn't mind kicking everything and trying sobriety, but I haven't been truly sober since i was a kid lol. getting sick of putting drugs in my system. steering clear of opioids altogether even tho theyre the love of my life. honestly the benzo taper is harder. it's like psychological torture.
 
I feel the same. I don't think drugs have been a constructive presence in my life, even as a teenager smoking weed. Alcohol in college had horrific side effects a lot of them probably long term as well.

I notice cognitive impairment when I am in withdrawal, and I notice memory impairment when combined with weed. The amnesia became ridiculous this year, with all that etizolam. I would wake up and be like what even happened yesterday. It's like a benzo that you can't feel physically so much and that makes it incredibly easy to take a lot as it has an antidepressant and euphoric effect too. A few xanax bars will knock me out with sedation before I could ever get there but never that stuff. How my tolerance got so high, abusing etiz. I resent that drug.

I noticed recently that it has been impacting my sex drive too, probably because it really increases prolactin levels. That is so bad for guys, and etizolam also can cause skin lesions and is notorious for blepharospasm (I twitches). When I take alprazolam and val instead (valium decreases prolactin levels apparently), I get horny rather quickly since the half life of etiz is very short I think 3.5 hours. It never lasts long, miserable stuff for treating chronic extreme anxiety.

I notice the shit really dried out my eyes but so far I have avoided those side effects, probably from all the working out.

After this week, when I'm really anxious I definitely think twice about whether or not I in fact need a benzo at that time.

I was too strung out to be smoking much hash, I was going to smoke a lot today but I'll save it for later with my friends. I smoked .1 a few hours ago, and at the normal time to smoke another point on a day like today I was writing on here and just forgot to. Now I couldn't care either way. I'd like to cut back on hash because I don't need to be smoking that much it's expensive and not good for my health.

I can't say one withdrawal is harder than the other. They are very different but equally miserable. Withdrawing from opiates is definitely much safer. I found with stuff like Mdma the side effects came out when I stopped using it, not the days / weeks between parties.

I wouldn't mind getting my tolerance down to script level and holding there for panic disorder. However I am giving myself the rest of the year to take it easy. Then I will be a year off opiates completely and I willl have the energy to carry on.

I feel my eyes getting sleepy even though I slept all night. It's just that once you have any sort of real benzo habit those thienodiazepines are a joke. My buddy told me if I took etiz only my tolerance to regular benzos would drop rapidly and if I can feel a single xanax bar now then it definitely has. I just want to keep going with this now, but at a slower pace.
 
I just resent benzos entirely now. after reading about them being proven to cause long lasting brain damage im entirely turned if i wasn't before I read that. I still have anxiety, it just feels totally different now when it manifests itself than what it did before I started taking benzos. the fact that using benzos will fuck your brain up for life should be reason enough to stop them. Ativan turned my friends mom into a mental case and she hasn't taken it for years. going to apply all the knowledge I picked up on this thread to tapering off of them, I see no benefit in taking them long term. just my 0.02 cents though if they help someone else then by all means they should keep using them.
 
What do you call it when you have had plan A, plan B, plan C, and so on...... and they have all failed untill you just run out of pills. I fail every time because I know there is a bottle of relief right there. This time I put 15 pills in my safe and I am trying hard to pretend they dont exist. I was only supposed to take 30 mg this morning and then quit cold turkey with a LOT of Loperamide. Instead I took 120 mg of oxy on top of the lope. I have 30 mg left for tomorrow. The hope is that I can avoid my stash in the safe and pretend I am out. Ill see how it goes.
 
Hi everyone. Just to let you know that I finished my tritration and I've been put on 55ml methadone. The first day I was given 40ml and that was pure hell. After 12 hours I was suffering from full on withdrawals. They upped my dose to 55 and I used a bag too. Today I'm doing the methadone only and I'm hoping that, being day 3, I've built enough in my system. I'm thinking about applying for jobs too but I'm worried about being drug tested and the methadone showing up in my urine sample. Looking online though, what I can gather is that methadone isn't something that is commonly part of the drugs tested for.
 
Probably called an inability or difficulty to control opiate use, maybe not the right med for you. I think there is something called opioid use disorder. That is a boring label. You should decide if the stress is worth the pain relief. I personally had much more pain while using opiates than not, after the first little while of quitting.

I find it remarkable that I am no longer distracted by chronic pain. I don't get it, I just became way more active and stopped using opiates and something in my body completely changed. This is going to change my life and bring me self confidence. I know that a lot of where I'm at right now has to do with chronic pain. I couldn't work. Not even hard labour jobs I used to. That's out of the question this summer or I'd at least have something half decent. Couldn't mow the lawn either, but point is I am no longer suffering from it, I know my limits, it does not hold me back.

I can't even believe what I just wrote. That shit tortured me for most of my 20's. Kept me bedridden in agony. Smack was the first opiate I ever tried, 2 years after the injury I was like well if this is my life, I'm probably going to kill myself, so I may as well do some drugs first.

Now I am sad. I have been socializing a lot more though. I've made a few new friends this past week. Made some money running errands but I had to take my shifts off due to the stress of everything.

I'm still recovering from the coke binge / benzo withdrawal. Yesterday was rough, I felt so stupid and didn't do anything much. Made a little money for my haircut soon. So psyched about that! I took care of myself well yesterday. I was so much more active than the rest of the week, I am waking up right now with my bones cracking, neck and shoulder blades, bones feel out of place. And I thought that this week would be relaxing since I got paid and had some spare money. I need a yoga class but I'm still recovering, couldn't handle it. I'll probably start again next week at the latest and make sure to take care of myself before then. I am definitely recovering from the coke crash it was pretty rough yesterday. Not that bad, but detoxing already made it worse. I feel like my body is stronger from all the yoga though, able to handle more shit. Too bad I fucked up I really miss it :_( skipped every normal class this week and lost a lot of weight. I really can't wait to go back. Maybe I can start again tomorrow but I'm not unless my bones stop cracking and aching from how fucked up this week has been for me.

And now I keep the blondie going so psyched. Changing up the toner a bit. I could skip it, but y'know, can't let them roots get too long and that would be dope money for a day or two last year.
 
Billy - you will never know until you try. Youre unemployed now. If you fail a drug test, then at least you tried. You should research methadone and what it could br prescribed for other than heroin wds. Maybe you could tell a story of herniated discs and pain management to explain your positive test for methadone. I know it is prescribed for pain sometimes.

You may want to wait a few more days before doing something stressful like job hunting. Failure could lead to depression and falling back on H for comfort. It will be easier once you have become comfortable in your new life without H. You will probably look healthier also, which might help in an interview.
 
Wish me luck..... I just took my last oxy. Got some stored in my safe, but Im pretending its not there. Only using lope now. 80 mg today. Ill start cutting back tomorrow. Ill be getting the lope down ASAP
 
I cheated.
I guess a large part of the problem is I am sort of alone in this. I have support from the BL community, but I stare at the people in front of me and I cant tell anybody what Im going through. Then the depression gets to me. Then I cheat.
Good news is the lope is totally working on the physical wds still.
 
it's great to see everybody trying so hard. tapering is the way to do it. when your body won't allow you to stop taking something it could feel like you're dying of thirst. keep pushing guys you feel a million times better once you're finally clean.
 
Squeaky said:
I cheated.
I guess a large part of the problem is I am sort of alone in this. I have support from the BL community, but I stare at the people in front of me and I cant tell anybody what Im going through. Then the depression gets to me. Then I cheat.
Good news is the lope is totally working on the physical wds still.
Click to expand...


Hey squeaky
I'll bet you're right in that a large part of both your suffering and your setbacks is that you are alone in this. I always wonder why ppl in our BL community so often say they cannot tell a Soul in their real lives, about their struggles.???? Why can't they? Why cant you?
I realize sometimes ppl are on their Last Chance with loved ones, and that they might lose their spouse or kids or home or job or even go to jail if they are on probation or in a drug -court appointed dependency program.

I also Suspect that many individuals here say those words ,"I cant tell anyone in my life about THIS " simply because it's a secret. I'm willing to bet a large majority who say this have never even tried telling loved ones their struggle. For fear I'm certain. I know I was afraid of how I would be seen n judged by loved ones and by my employer etc when I was in active addiction. However Telling everyone was a huge part of my being Able to benefit from.the services I sought out. It helped so much in keeping myself accountable for my actions; it helped that they knew, so they could become educated on substance abuse disorders n therefore be more empathetic individuals. ..

It helped the Most as far as when I had my set backs or emotional ups n downs I was Able to talk to the people who love and care about me most. A doctor or a counsellor can lend a decent ear at times but they're paid professionals doing their jobs. They don't Dearly love me and have a strong emotional stake in my wellbeing.

I know it's VERY difficult to Admit to loved ones that you struggle with addiction. There's pride...we don't want to disappoint them or have their ideals about us shattered....in my family I was the smart one, the strong one, the dependable one and the Mom.
It was very hard jumping down off that pedestal and Hell -praying they would all still love me even Though I knew the would likely lose a measure of the respect they had for me, and perhaps that would NEVER fully trust me again.

But I did it. I told everyone
Parents siblings spouse children friends employers. EVERY one knew. Only a handful of times over the years (*it's been a decade since my active addiction to opiates began. It ended in 2012)... only a few times in that decade my addiction was "used against me" by an actual.loved one. Those incidents were simply white trash mud slinging efforts when one of my siblings or an inlaw was all pissed off at Me
They couldn't think of any other way to attack , or figured bringing up the pill popping would be the most hurtful, who knows. In any event I didnt take their criticism to heart. My active addiction was NOT an intentional foray into a low life. ... it's not a character flaw nor something to be ashamed of. It's simply a fact. It developed over very understandable circumstances; yes IT led to some poor decision making on my part, for which I immediately and have always taken responsibility for, paid the price and made my ammends. Beyond all of that if ppl I love or admire are scandalized by the fact that I had a 4-year dependency on painkillers.... well all I can say is "I'm sorry my health had an adverse effect on your life ".


Perhaps my family (my dad my spouse my kids, in laws n siblings who NEVER acted nasty towatds me for it) are just remarkable people; but I truly believe that MOST ppl are remarkable people and that they will be Tremendously supportive and actually Glad to know, when a person they love comes forward and talks about addiction. It will answer a lot of questions and explain a lot that they were wondering about... it'll open a conversation. It will lead to Their education on the subject which is always a goodthing. It will strengthen most families to have the truth brought out in the open.
Most of all it will help the person who is suffering in active addiction . .
To be honest to be accountable and tohave loved ones to talk to.
I know it's a Hell of a risk. For me personally I had to tell them. There's no way I would have succeeded in getting away from the pills if I had attempted to keep it all a deep dark secret.
 
Hey, I am doing great personally, in my opinion with everything going on.

Took the week off work as a few days into benzo withdrawal I could no longer function very well. Just told the truth. I was too anxious to work and it was killing me to get there on Monday so I did the responsible thing, in that situation, by letting them know well in advance instead of waiting last minute. I knew I was fucked, nothing I could do about it I'm not having a seizure. Chilled with a new stoner crew, made a couple new friends who I've already seshed with like 5 times at least. Made some money, spent that money. Like the girl at the dispensary kept asking, did you have fun. Cause I was like yeahhh I had a wallet full of cash for once and blew it on all this stuff at the mall etc. And I got my blondie going on lol, took 3 hours total for my hair but it's dope!

It's nice to spend a little money on something other than drugs. I got all sorts of stuff - but yeah, I had fun and wasn't all that irresponsible.

Alprazolam is far and wide the best anxiety med for me. Just gotta watch out not to abuse it. I used to take 3 bars at a time, and after a hundred or so of those I feel that I had a hysteric anxiety rebound. I won't take more than one at a time now, but 2mg is just the right dose at the moment. I think my tolerance dropped a bit.

Been smoking a lot of hash, did a little coke but I got over that quickly. I've still been dehydrated today from the white but I'll be good tomorrow and definitely will not be doing that again any time soon am out and did none today and had a lovely day! I have a crush on that dispensary girl, tall, wears these gothic dresses that I find attractive. Extra nice to me. Best hash cutter of all time, chopped an eighth perfectly it's crazy she must sketch or paint or something or should. So my sex drive came back shortly after stopping etizolam. It's all that prolactin hormone it circulates around I suppose. That is what I despise about that drug, I will never use it again. I'm on real benzos now, a few xanax bars a day and 15mg Val.

Overall, doing pretty well. Got some more hash to smoke and I better get hydrated I have to be up at 6 tomorrow. This week was fucking crazy so crazy I actually like, forgot or didn't have time or was too stressed or on coke to smoke hash. Insane, it was not on my mind even once and normally I can't eat or sleep without it. Survival mode.


Squeaky dude surround yourself with supportive people man. Yeah whenev I'm alone and especially left to my own volition that is the worst. Making some new friends this week really helped me get through that unintended wd and they made sure I wasn't going to have a seizure or anything like that despite just recently meeting them. Real chill people. The worst is being alone in withdrawal and not preoccupying yourself with something and yeah man I was personally never down for the safe idea. If you want the drugs, you're going to get the drugs and do the drugs. If you are anything like me with the pills, there is really no stopping that a time will come. I had to eliminate my prescription and if any friend brings up oxy's or any sort of opiate I tell them never to mention it to me again or ever bring them around as there is no way in hell I am doing this all over again when it has been an entire 5 months now. Jan - May all clean months from dope.
 
Good deal shroomy!
I'm gloriously happy you are off n away from the opiates! Thats a goddam life saver for you!
And getting the benzo situation figured out has to be a huge relief as well. I'm not educated very deeply on the topic of benzodiazepines; for example I don't know the similarities and differences between say, alprazolam & etizolam. I really couldn't tell one from the other; I know Nothing. But I'm glad to learn you seem to be feeling better and getting by on using Less which ultimately is the Goal.


Another thing I wanna bring up: I know tons of people who have anxiety in their daily lives who use marijuana in one form or another, whether the plain Jane, the dabbing or even as you're onto now, some hash....and I ALWAYS wonder in kind of a chicken -or-the-egg style conundrum : are these folks having More anxiety from all the pot use and they just don't know it????
I mean of course most ppl say weed mellows them out . A lotta people use weed Instead Of pharmaceuticals, just To Treat their anxiety and they function so much better this way
I just wonder if, after awhile the weed may be having a rebound affect on anxiety and being all sneaky and making the anxiety Worse for the user?? I mean IT could happen right?

*I'm not saying anyone or everyone should give up their weed. Of course that's a personal.choice as far as I'm concerned. By and large I consider it a Far safer n healthier alternative to most if not all prescription meds for anxiety

I'm just wondering.....I see so many.posts here where our peers struggle with Horrible anxiety and I just happen to note that hundreds of them use marijuana in some form.... just wondering whether the weed (*since we know IT Can Cause paranoia. ...) might be eventually Turning On People n exacerbating the anxiety. I guess it would be akin to the way prolonged use of opiates can cause that horrific hyperalgesia .

Just a thought.
Marijuana does NOT agree with me. I'm in that small percentage of folks who have a Terrible reaction to it. Like complete mental/ emotional Paralysis! Yet terror. Yet severe sadness .yet I can't Fuckin move like a scared rabbit I just freeze up while having racing thoughts of the most awful and horrifying sort. Yikes. It's not pretty so I simply cannot use it, myself.

Any hoooooz
It's good to hear about your 5 months going on six, free of opiates ! Any chance you would be willing to PM me a sneak peek at the new platinum blonde 'do??? I'd like to see it.
You're gonna have a Fun summer shroomy! Just keep that benzo situation under Your control.... I would avoid the stims (*you're high strung enuf without them! Lol*) And keep on posting! I so enjoy reading your updates

Send me a pic ; )
 
Squeaky said:
I cheated.
I guess a large part of the problem is I am sort of alone in this. I have support from the BL community, but I stare at the people in front of me and I cant tell anybody what Im going through. Then the depression gets to me. Then I cheat.
Good news is the lope is totally working on the physical wds still.
Click to expand...

Yeah, wow Squeaky do I ever understand this. I am definitely going to be having to use lope for part of the "month" of my prescription. I am able to control my usage now but it seems my tolerance is just higher and I require a bit more so I think- well should I feel like shit and be in withdrawal the entire month or feel normal and be able to enjoy things and keep socializing and being able to eat and sleep etc. for most the month? You know the answer is going to be, use the amount of medication needed to feel decent most the month and suffer through the days of no medication. Thank God for the lope on those days.

You know guys, I heard this video of this guy talking about how everything we learned about addiction is wrong and how the problem could not possibly be chemical hooks because of studies done that prove it from isolation and lack of love and connection in our lives. I have always felt that the way society is today is so wrong. We are living so un- naturally. Human beings were not meant to sit in cubicles all day staring at computers. We need one another. We cannot live without love! It causes us physical pain and will eventually kill us. We must find ways to reach out to others and get support and to be and feel connected.

Here is a link to this guy's totally right on insights: https://youtu.be/PY9DcIMGxMs

I want you all to know that I love you ALL and I support you! You are not alone! WE are not alone! I see us all overcoming this and guys, we do have the power to overcome this. I went through eight days of morphine withdrawal last "month" with very little lope usage and just with a different mindset and staying connected and refusing to even go through the " withdrawal" made a HUGE difference.
 
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