• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

The Scientific Explanation Thread

World of Warcraft plague and real world implications.

This is one of the coolest articles I've read in a long time. It's about the possibility of using a virtual plague in WoW to model the way people respond to the same situations in real life.

But first some background info. for those that are unfamiliar with the Corrupted Blood plague from WoW (as was I until I read the article):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4272418.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupted_Blood

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2005/09/warcraft_plague.html?entry_id=1230071

Virtual outbreaks, real world ramifications

* 24 February 2007
* From New Scientist Print Edition. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.
* Kim Coppola

UNTIL that fateful day, 20 September 2005, the disease was unknown. But once the outbreak began, its effects were devastating. For many, the infection was lethal. Dying victims oozed contaminated blood through their skin and anyone coming into contact with it quickly succumbed.

It all began when a group of adventurers encountered a deadly virus while exploring a labyrinth of caves. When surviving infected explorers made it back to civilisation, they initiated the outbreak. Travellers spread the word, and the disease, only boosting the carnage and the outbreak to epidemic scale. In the busiest towns, bodies piled high.

This is a true story. But there's a good reason you may not have heard about it. The disease took place inside a computer game called World of Warcraft, a virtual world where upwards of 7.5 million people log on to live fantasy lives where they kill monsters and collect treasure.

The disease, christened the "Blood Plague", was made by Blizzard, the game's developers. It was supposed to be just a bit of a fun - and to remain within the caves. When it spread, catching Blizzard programmers by surprise, it inspired scientists to look at virtual worlds as a new place to conduct serious research on people's behaviour. In the future, subjects as diverse as government decisions on how to contain a disease and theories of social behaviour could be based on knowledge gained through experiments in the virtual world (see "Online obedience").

Of course, computers have long been used to model the real-world spread of disease. For example, at the Discrete Simulation Sciences office of the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, researchers use computer simulations based on statistical models to examine how diseases such as smallpox might spread in the US, and how they might be affected by various vaccination and quarantine strategies. For their Episims project, which is designed to model outbreaks in Portland, Oregon, researchers gathered census and transport records, and used the information to simulate the behaviour of every Portland citizen at 10-minute intervals, including where they travel and who they interact with in a normal day. They were then able to simulate how a disease might spread through this population.

The problem is the model only captures people's routine behaviour. Epidemics can lead to all sorts of out-of-the-ordinary activities, and panic can cause people to behave in completely different ways. The Episims model does not extensively modify behaviour once the disease begins to spread. "The model is very good at examining where disease will go once we know how people will behave, but if that [behaviour] changes, the model falls down," says Nina Fefferman, who studies disease control at Tufts University School of Medicine in Boston. In the Episims model, if an individual is sick enough, they stay home; if they have a sick child, one parent stays home. Otherwise, business continues as usual. Their model does not take into account the complex and unpredictable human responses to a disease outbreak, such as deliberately avoiding places where there are infected people. This is a crucial drawback, says Fefferman. Human behaviour is a fundamental component of how a disease spreads. Ignore its complexity and the results of your simulation could be wildly out.

"We know from the statistical modelling that having clumps of similar behaviours can greatly affect the outcome. So if you know 30 per cent of the people are going to run away, and 30 per cent of them are highly susceptible to the disease, it makes a huge difference to the outcome of the disease whether or not that's the same 30 per cent," she says.

Out of control

That's why the World of Warcraft plague got Fefferman so excited. Here was a chance to gather accurate information about how each of thousands of individuals might behave in an outbreak, a study that would be virtually impossible in the real world. As soon as she heard about it she phoned Blizzard. "I wanted to know exactly what happened," she says.

Press reports at the time described how the disease spread out of Blizzard's control. They had intended for the disease to remain within the caves. When the plague spread to the towns, they didn't know how to stop it. Even quarantine didn't work. In the end, to stem the epidemic, Blizzard had to take many areas of the game off-line. Fefferman reasoned that people would have behaved in a similar way to how they would during a real-world outbreak. She wanted to see if the outbreak held lessons for real-world disease control.

Key to Fefferman's idea is that in virtual worlds each character is controlled by a real person, rather than being just a statistic in a simulation, which means you don't need to try to predict their behaviour; you can observe it. "The real advantage of virtual-world modelling over statistical modelling is that for statistical modelling to work at all, you need to know how people will behave in advance," Fefferman says. In the virtual world you can look at the behaviour in response to the disease. For example, infected characters might flock to healing areas just as real-world victims would head for hospitals.

Unfortunately, though, Fefferman was not about to get anything useful from the Blood Plague outbreak. Blizzard had been so busy trying to stem the spread of the disease, they hadn't thought to keep track of the statistics. So Fefferman will have to look elsewhere. First she needs to find a cooperative company willing to modify its game's code so that characters can be infected involuntarily. Fefferman would then seed a disease and wait to see what happened. She has spent 18 months devising a way to use virtual worlds to model the spread of disease. The games company would need to provide her with detailed information on the outbreak, including every character's movements, who they met, when and where they were infected and so on. She would also like to be able to interview players after the fact to establish why they behaved the way they did. Best of all, Fefferman says, would be to be able to secretly introduce diseases and factors affecting its spread that are beyond the control or knowledge of the players. For example, some characters might be silent carriers - infected but symptomless - while others might be immune.

Virtual-world modelling would not spell the end for statistical models, Fefferman says. They would work in tandem, solving different kinds of questions. Behavioural information from virtual-world modelling could be fed into powerful statistical modelling software to refine our assumptions about how diseases really spread.

So far, though, games companies have given Fefferman's plan the cold shoulder. For example, Linden Lab, which created the virtual world Second Life, turned down a recent request from Fefferman to model epidemics in the game. They didn't want to do things to their virtual residents without their consent. "They were very nice in suggesting that I could run a 'voluntary participation experiment' within Second Life, but that would defeat my purpose in the study," says Fefferman. Voluntary participation would create self-selection bias - only those who consented to it could catch the disease.

It's not all bad news. According to numerous blog and forum postings, World of Warcraft players enjoyed the Blood Plague outbreak and considered it part of the spectacle of the game. Blizzard has told Fefferman it may consider a planned outbreak at some point in the future. "They have promised that if they do incorporate something major like that in a controlled way, they'll call me," says Fefferman.

So does the virtual world hold the key to the future of epidemiology? Dimitri Williams, who studies the social and economic impacts of virtual worlds at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, thinks not. "You can't model behaviour based on games where the human behaviours don't map to the real world," he says. In virtual worlds there is nothing at stake - die, and you are reborn at the click of a mouse. There is no life-or-death incentive to avoid disease.

That's certainly true of the World of Warcraft outbreak, in which some players spread the disease on purpose. Blizzard's programmers planned only for those visiting those specific caves to succumb to the bloody death, yet some ingenious players discovered they could form a chain of infection. They used their virtual pets - characters can acquire them in this game - to help carry the disease out of the caves and take it to more populated areas, where the plague then spread out of control. For Williams this highlights the basic flaw in virtual-world disease modelling. "No one in the real world tries to spread diseases for fun, for example, so it just doesn't work."

Fefferman disagrees. "There are different risks. World of Warcraft has resurrection, so dying isn't as bad as it seems. But if your pet dies, that's it. It costs time, and virtual money, to get it back." Characters buy virtual pets in exchange for treasure they've found or in-game cash they've earned, which both take time to acquire. These pets can't be reincarnated for free, so if a player's pet dies, there's a real loss associated with it. And it's not just about virtual pets. People do invest their time, their reputation, and even real-world money in virtual worlds, so many players do feel they have something to lose. One player so firmly identified with the death of his virtual self that he compared Blizzard's slow response to the US government's mismanagement of the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. This might be at the extreme end of the scale, but Fefferman believes that most players feel there's enough at stake in the virtual world for them to care about not getting infected, so lessons learned there can be extended into the real world.

No one is saying, though, that the situations are exactly comparable. Of course there are differences. For most players, the World of Warcraft plague had little real-world consequence. Most enjoyed the event, which they viewed as a kind of unscripted virtual theatre. After two days Blizzard was able to contain the outbreak, and they reprogrammed the game so that no player could catch the Blood Plague again.

Nevertheless, virtual-world modelling could give valuable insights into how human behaviour makes a difference to the spread of disease, dramatically improving models and the accuracy of simulations. Virtual worlds might even throw up better strategies for combating disease outbreaks. World of Warcraft's virtual plague has kick-started a whole new approach to disease modelling, and its descendants may yet help save real lives.

Kim Coppola is a writer based in London
From issue 2592 of New Scientist magazine, 24 February 2007, page 39-41


Online Obedience

Is it possible to draw real-world conclusions from studies of the virtual world? Mel Slater of the Technical University of Catalonia in Barcelona, Spain, wanted to find out.

He decided to re-enact a famous experiment by Harvard psychologist Stanley Milgram, who showed that people would reluctantly obey a figure of authority and administer pain to an innocent subject even as the subject protested in agony. Slater asked volunteers to apply increasing "virtual" electric shocks to a computer-generated character they saw on a screen. They knew the female subject was not real; nonetheless, as she begged for the shocks to stop, and later seemed to fall unconscious, the participants exhibited genuine signs of stress, as if the shocks were being applied to a real person. The implication seems to be that if people identify strongly enough with virtual characters, conclusions from virtual worlds may well extend into the real.
 
I saw a documentary about these conjoined twins on TV last night and thought I'd share because it's pretty fucking amazing. Especially considering they both seem to be pretty well rounded people besides only each having half a body essentially.

Abigail and Brittany Hensel: an extraordinary bond

By HELEN WEATHERS

henseltwins3112_228x589.jpg



Like many twins they have very different personalities and tastes - even more so now they are teenagers. Abigail, the feisty, stubborn one, likes orange juice for breakfast while Brittany, the joker of the family, will touch only milk.

Abigail loves pink and all things girly but Brittany prefers purple, multi-coloured hair and wearing unusual hats, and now they have turned 16 they love to experiment with makeup and clothes and giggle about which boys they like.

But that is where the similarity with other teenage twins end. For Abigail and Brittany Hensel are conjoined, sharing one body fused at the torso. Each controls just one side of the body, and yet remarkably this has not prevented them leading a full, active and happy life.

Displaying an astonishing co- ordination which has stunned doctors, they play the piano -with Abigail taking the right-hand parts and Brittany the left - and enjoy sports such as bowling, volleyball, cycling, softball and swimming.

And on their 16th birthday they passed their driving test; a mind-boggling feat of teamwork with each twin using one arm to control the steering wheel. Brittany explains: 'Abby does the pedals and the gear shifter. I take over the blinkers and the lights. But she likes driving faster than me.'

Which as their mother Patty, a registered nurse, concedes, could prove a problem. 'I don't know what would happen if they got pulled over for speeding. Would they each get a ticket or just Abby because it's her foot on the accelerator?'

The Daily Mail first introduced the Hensel twins ten years ago, when they were six years old, and now a decade on these remarkable pictures reveal the dramatic progress they have made as they approach adulthood.

The incredible bond which was so evident when they were children has strengthened year by year into one which neither twin ever wants to see broken. As Brittany says: 'We don't know any other way.'

The Hensels are believed to be one of only four sets of dicephalus twins in history to survive infancy and, to mark their 16th birthday last year, the girls allowed the cameras into their fiercely guarded private world to share this milestone in their lives.

'Believe me, we are totally different people,' says Brittany, to which Abigail adds: 'I'm more into like pink and girly and Brittany is more not into pink...we take turns. One day Brittany will pick the outfit and the next day I will pick the outfit.'

It is not unknown, however, for the twins to go out in the specially made top with two different necklines - to reflect their unique tastes - and leggings with each leg a contrasting colour and a different shoe on each foot.

When the Hensel twins were born on March 7, 1990 in Minnesota in the United States, doctors warned their parents Patty, a registered nurse, and Mike, a carpenter and landscaper, that they were unlikely to survive the night.

Just one set of twins in every 40,000 is born connected in some way to each other and only 1 per cent of those survive beyond the first year. The Hensel girls are the rarest form of conjoined twins, the result of a single fertilised egg which failed to separate properly in the womb.

They have two spines (which join at the pelvis), two hearts, two oesophagi, two stomachs, three kidneys, two gall bladders, four lungs (two of which are joined), one liver, one ribcage, a shared circulatory system and partially shared nervous systems. From the waist down all organs, including the intestine, bladder and reproductive organs, are shared.

Yet Patty, 46 and Mike, 47, never once considered having the twins separated, through fear that one or both might die or be left with such severe disabilities their quality of life would be compromised - although today Patty sometimes wonders if she made the right decision given the advances in medical techniques.

But she knows that to separate the twins would mean they could no longer enjoy all the activities they love. They would each have just one arm and one leg and be confined to a wheelchair. It is a choice neither she nor the girls are prepared to make while they remain in good health.

Patty had no idea she was carrying twins until the birth at the local hospital where she worked; she was heavily sedated after the delivery as doctors realised the seriousness of the situation and whisked the twins to a larger hospital in the nearest big city.

'The paediatrician said my babies were together but they had two heads,' she recalled. 'It was blunt but completely accurate. From the first time we saw them, we thought they were beautiful.

I kissed Abigail and then Brittany and gave them a hug. It's like that every time I pick them up from school, two kisses and one hug for the most beautiful children in the world.'

Both Mike and Patty's families have lived in a small midwestern farming community of 300 people for generationsand it is here where they have brought up the twins and younger brother Dakota, 14, and sister Morgan, 12, away from the media spotlight.

Although Brittany is more susceptible to colds and has twice suffered pneumonia, the twins are in good health despite a series of operations.

In infancy a third undeveloped arm was removed from their chest and aged 12 they underwent surgery to correct scoliosis - curvature of the spine - and expand their chest cavity to prevent future breathing difficulties.

They attend a private church school and are popular with their friends, who treat them no differently from anyone else. Only when the family ventures outside this close-knit community does the curiosity of strangers have the potential to wound.

Once Patty heard a child at a swimming pool ask his mother if she had seen the little girl with two heads. 'We have talked about that with Abigail and Brittany,' she said.

'When children ask the girls if they have two heads, they say they don't but that each has their own head. That's what we have encouraged them to do, to develop their own individuality as much as possible.'

That has meant buying two seats every time they go to the cinema - even though only one will be used - separate meals and two different birthday cakes with candles each year. If one of the twins misbehaves, Patty and Mike are careful to scold the individual responsible - even if the other has been dragged unavoidably into the misdeed.

Yet, while the twins have developed their own tastes in food, drink, clothes and separate personalities, their body works as one - although they have different urges to eat and sleep.

When they eat they have separate plates one of them holds the fork and the other the knife to cut the food, and then take turns to put the meal in each other's mouth.

Sometimes it is simply easier for them to share a meal and they will hold a hamburger in their hands from which Abigail will take a bite and then Brittany. Similarly, they take it in turns when they do their hair and make-up.

Although Brittany - the left twin - can't feel anything on the right side of the body and Abigail - the right twin - can't feel anything on her left, instinctively their limbs move as if co-ordinated by one person, even when typing e-mails on the computer.

At school they have different strong subjects and during examinations will sit two papers at the same time with each twin writing with one hand. Their teacher, Kevin Boozikee, says: 'They answer things differently, they think differently. They always get different grades.'

What is perhaps most touching about Abigail and Brittany, however, is their ability to get on - despite their different personalities. They seldom argue, despite Abigail always wanting to be the leader and - according to their mother - liking 'to rule the whole house'.

One twin will scratch an itch the other cannot reach or hold her hand still so the other can count during a maths lesson and when Brittany was ill with pneumonia and couldn't keep the medicine down, Abigail volunteered to take it in the hope of making her twin better.

Only once have the twins talked about separation - in childhood - when Abigail became bored and restless after Brittany fell ill with pneumonia and was confined to bed. She started to suggest being separated from her sister, but when Brittany began to cry Abigail reassured her that everything was fine and that they'd never be parted.

Today, Abigail says: 'No. We never wish we were separated - because we would never be able to do all the things that we do now...like play softball, run and do sports.'

Despite their optimism, devotion to each other and apparent happiness, what of the inevitable challenges they will face as they grow into adult women? Will they fall in love and with whom? What if one of the twins detests the boy the other one likes? Will they have children - a choice they must both make in tandem because they share one reproductive system?

The twins say they have already discussed the possibility of having children, for there is no medical reason why they shouldn't be able to. Their father Mike certainly believes the girls may get married one day.

After all, they have managed to get this far thanks to their incredible bond, their almost telepathic capacity to understand each other's thoughts without speaking and their willingness to accommodate each other's differences.

For now, however, Abigail and Brittany are content to dream, gossiping with their friends about pop music and boys while remaining tight-lipped about whether they have actually started dating.

'The whole world does not need to know who we're seeing,' says Brittany, sounding just like any other ordinary teenager, which is how these extraordinary twins ultimately see themselves.

Source
 
^That is incredible. I can't imagine having to take alternate bites of a hamburger, or lie in a bed all day as my conjoined twin is ill with pneumonia. :|
 
I saw that one too. It looked kinda cute at first. With them both sort of rubbing cheeks all the time. But then I couldnt help but notice that Abigail was really quite dominant and Brittany was dragged around a little bit. It would be like having a bossy sibling but never being able to get away from them. I cant even imagine what it would be like for them to have sex if they can both only feel one side of the body. It was just awesome how they managed to cooperate so well and know what the other side needs with out feeling it or saying anything to each other
 
Yeah I noticed at times they would almost subconsciously do things like hold hair out of each other's faces while brushing it back. Things that I would take for granted having control of both sides of my body, but for them would be something they've had to learn. It was definitely eerie how well they could do things like that without thinking about it and without talking about it.
 
Getting anywhere with your scientific explanation of life the universe and everything yet lostpunk ?;)
 
Yes, in fact I'm finding it quite fascinating and fulfilling.

And here's a Dawkins quote to drive the point home:
Greatest man alive said:
There is much that we are unsure about in science. Where science scores over alternative world views is that we know our uncertainty, we can often measure its magnitude, and we work optimistically to reduce it.
 
^ Yeah there's always that I suppose.

Actually I don't have anything against science at all just some of the applications of it and some of the absolute refusal by some afficiandos to accept that they will never ever get to the end !
 
That's the fun thing about science for me. It's not about the end. It's about the journey, about amendment and thought.

That's why I think religions are bullshit. Anyone claiming to have the answers can fuck right off in my book.
 
^ Religions are full of bullshit , dogmatic theocratic downright inhumane at times , but the basis of them is often actually the way to live if at all possible.


as in the word which conveys little unless you actually feel it



LOVE



At fucking last !
 
lostpunk5545 said:
That's the fun thing about science for me. It's not about the end. It's about the journey, about amendment and thought.

That's why I think religions are bullshit. Anyone claiming to have the answers can fuck right off in my book.

I was actually thinking about this very conversation we had when someone bought up the topic the other day with me.
.
I do like the way that evolution, as a theory, is constantly redefining itself and is therefore far less rigid/fundamental than religion. Still though, both require just as much faith, or at least an ability to to look past certain inexplicable points.

Whatever floats you boat, i s'pose.
 
^ So this is where you've been hiding is it !

Hallo Mr Sandyclut you haven't been to TeDiouS for some time , you catch happiness or something ? ;) :D
 
^ Yeah well it was only theoretical you know !
 
There is where I think you are wrong (candyslut). Science acknowledges its limitations and therefore doesn't require faith. What is fact is well measured and researched, but there is room for improvement. Faith is taking a big leap - with no proof. Science is taking leaps, but you think about where you are going to land before you jump. It may not be right, but you amend your theory after you jump (experiment). Someone may jump after you, and find something different. Therefore discussion and amendment.

Religion you jump, and then make up lies to cover up anything unexpected that occurs in the process.

It really frustrated when I started reading scientific articles that there was never a defined answer, for every person promoting a theory there are ten people disagreeing, or only agreeing to a certain degree. Before I got into it I always thought that everything that was science was "true". But that was definitely a naive, and ill-informed view to have.

My basic point is that religion is static, whilst science is dynamic.

Don't get me wrong there is conservatism in science as well, but science is the product of humans, so there is always going to be irrationality.

Bad Religion - The Answer

Long ago in a dusty village,
Full of hunger, pain and strife,
A man came forth with a vision of truth,
And the way to a better life,
He was convinced he had the answer,
And he compelled people to follow along,
But the hunger never vanished,
And the man was banished,
And the village dried up and died,

At a time when wise men peered,
Through brass tubes toward the sky,
The heavens changed in predictable ways,
And one man was able to find,
That he had thought he found the answer,
And he was quick to write his revelation,
But as they were scrutinized
In his colleagues eyes,
He soon became a mockery,

Dont tell me about the answer,
cause then another one will come along soon,
I dont believe you have the answer,
Ive got ideas too,
But if youve got enough naivite,
And youve got conviction,
Then the answer is perfect for you

An urban sprawl sits choking on its discharge,
Overwhelmed by industry,
Inclined toward charity,
Everyones begging for an answer,
Without regard validity,
The searching never ends,
It goes on and on and on for eternity
 
No i understand what you are saying re: the dynamic versus static thing.

However, and i think i have said this to you before, evolution fails to explain its own beginning, as much as any religion does. While i accept that evolution is based on the concept of 'science', and thus in some way is meant to be more credible, it still cannot explain its own origin. As such, to me it requires a certain type of faith, or at least an ability to look beyond certain factors that cannot be explained, in order for it to be feasible.

Evolution, to some people, may require less 'faith' than religion, but i still think it requires a certain amount.

Far too many people place too much import in science, IMHO.
 
I disagree with what you are saying, but only because I believe I am more informed on the subject of evolution than you (but not through lack of intelligence or anything - I've just spent a lot of time reading about it).

Evolution is pretty much verified, as far as anything in science (or in fact anything full stop can be). Experiments with fruit flies which have very short life spans (and therefore evolve faster) have shown exactly how sexual selection, and random mutations can change a variety of factors in an organism. This is but one example of observation of evolution at work.

There are numerous other examples, such as bacteria evolving to be immune to antibiotics and insects and plants doing the same thing to pesticides and herbicides. Plus there is the fossil record which is a whole other story.

But you were mentioning the origin of evolution and therein is another example of science that is not yet reached a formal conclusion - but is well on the way. There are a few different theories. But the most credible in my mind is that after a long time of increasingly chemical reactions occurring on the early earth an inorganic compound became organic (that is, it was capable of self replication). So obviously DNA was something that evolved in and of itself over a long time.

Anyways if you're interested the wikipedia article, origin of life is a good introduction.
 
Top