The LYRICA (pregabalin) Mega Thread

[homeydontplaythat]

does anyone think the concept of stagger would apply to lyrica? i know the dosing is linear, but im trying to figure out why intravenous use does not work nearly as well as oral. is it something about the transport proteins being absorbed by the gut?

seriously, other ROAs that are known to be more direct dont work nearly as well as oral use in my experience. i have tried plugging and IV. it hits faster but it seems like half the drug really gets absorbed. i dont know. it just doesnt make any sense. the assholes at ADD wont answer any questions because they are too busy jerking off to how smart they think they are. i wish there was an intermediate between OD and ADD. something where more advanced talk of drugs could be held without assholes that have no other life besides a forum.

 

[avrolling]

Weak opiates "awaken" me (in a sense) too, 10mg of hydrocodone is NOT likely to do this in combination with Lyrica. If anything, it will probably make you much, much more tired, as pregabalin potentiates the effects of opiates.

Damn haha I guess I'm stuck just going to sleep with Lyrica! :/

 

[Bojangles69]

In college I used as a source for a paper on psychiatry, GAD and emerging medications a study conducted to compare the efficacy of pregabailn to placebo and alprazolam in the treatment of individuals diagnosed with GAD using DSM-IV-TR criteria. In it, three pregabalin groups were used; 300mg/day, 450mg/day, and 600mg/day groups. One alprazolam group was used, at a daily dosage of 1.5mg. And then there was a control group, which received a daily placebo (inactive) pill. Measurements were conducted over a 4-week period to quantify and compare improvements in both psychic anxiety symptoms (mental manifestations of anxiety [disastrous thinking, etc.]) and somatic anxiety symptoms (physical manifestations of anxiety [racing heart, etc.]).

By the end of the 4-week study, the 1.5mg/day alprazolam group, as well as all three pregabalin groups, demonstrated a significant reduction in psychic symptoms of GAD over placebo; interestingly, though, only the 300 and 600mg pregabalin groups demonstrated a significant reduction in somatic symptoms of GAD over the placebo group, whereas the 1.5mg/day alprazolam group and the 450mg/day pregabalin groups did NOT demonstrate clinically significant improvements!

Here's a free link to the full study:
Archives of General Psychiatry Vol. 62 No. 9, September 2005.
Pregabalin for Treatment of Generalized Anxiety Disorder
A 4-Week, Multicenter, Double-blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial of Pregabalin and Alprazolam

Personally, I'm not *entirely* surprised about the alprazolam group not showing physical anxiety symptom improvement, simply because alprazolam has less musculo-skeletal relaxant properties than some other benzodiazepines, such as diazepam, but what really perplexes me (and the study's authors) is that the low-end and high-end pregabalin groups showed physical improvements, but the middle group did not. But, for the purposes of answering your question, if I were to base my answer to you off of the results of this study, I suppose I would suggest either a dose of 300mg/day or 600mg/day, since both these groups were the only groups to have shown improvements in both realms; 450mg took care of half the symptoms, but for someone in the US diagnosed with GAD who is scripted Lyrica for it (off-label, obviously), I *need* those somatic anxiety symptoms taken care of as well as just the debilitating psychic symptoms. Both psychic and somatic symptoms of anxiety can be equally as uncomfortable for me and in terms of treatment, they must be inseparable.

Interesting thing, though, is that my own scripted amount of Lyrica per day happens to be 450mg/day - the one pregabalin dosage that *didn't * work for somatic symptoms in the study, and I should note that it *does* work for all of my symptoms

Hope all of this maybe h elps, although now that I've typed it all up, it seems rather more likely to confuse the issue rather than answer the question. However, for what it's worth

~ vaya

I wouldn't pay attention to this study for too long. When you conduct research like this there is NO WAY to possibly control for all the confounds. And theres potentially a hundred different reasons why the middle group didn't show an improvement which the study can't mention.

They were merely asked what medications/drugs they were on, not tested. When you conduct research long enough you learn that participants in studies lie all the time because they don't realize that certain "nonimportant" things can hugely sway the results. If you were perplexed by these results you'd further be perplexed by the amount of data people report thats not true. And although this won't effect their somatic readings it will effect them from being allowed to participate.

Also, the population was sampled through a clinical referal. The problem isn't the referal, the problem it the actual diagnoses of the patients. In order to test for a somatic change that can be generalized to the average biology of an avg person, you would sample non gad patients and do a "random sample".

Some of those patients could have not had gad, had higher adrenal output (which would make someone anxious) and simply been bad referals. In a situation like that its not hard to get clusters of people in certain groups even when they are randomly assigned to their groups.

In fact, because this research was isolated to only people who suffer GAD, the results can only be generalized to people WITH GAD, which is a small percent of the people actually taking lyrica. Then there is the fact of misdiagnosed patients (maybe more patients in the 450mg group had high blood pressure and not GAD) and the fact that all these patients report their histories through self report. The researchers really had no idea what they were taking/have been on before the study.
It also doesn't consider the fact of how short the study was (4 weeks) because by 8 weeks for all you know ALL 3 GROUPS could have an improvement.
THIS IS WHY in research we don't say "the 450mg group didn't work", we say "the 450mg group didn't show significance", anyone who works in research will tell you that 1 study means very little. Repeat this study 4 more times with longer records, and control for confounds better. Otherwise, I would NOT try to derive any meaning from it.

-Bo

 

[homeydontplaythat]

it is a great piece of drug porn regardless. i get off on shit like this. thanks for posting the link, vaya. ill have that monograph out to you soon enough.

 

[WhateverIDo]

I received the contents of 5 100mg Lyrica capsules, just the powder. I was able to get high off of it before by snorting it, but it was not pleasant. What would be the best way to take it without snorting?

 

[homeydontplaythat]

just swallow the caps. ive tried shooting, plugging, parachuting and nothing compares to just swallowing the damn capsules.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

well, i took a week off and substitued with with neurontin. it didnt really do much to lower my tolerance.

vaya, i know you found that study that said there is NO cross tolerance, but i dont know man. 7 days off and 450mg does not do what 300 used to, by far.

 

[i8hooked]

i dont know how you get away with only 3 dollars a month , thats insane , i pay 99 euro's for medicare covering.

i got scripted 4x150mg a day but i mostly take about 300-450 mg a day otherwise concentrating at work becomes very hard.

lyrica can give some confusion, especial when you take it over a long time.

I guess I am lucky. My girlfriend is on medicaid/medicare, she gets 60 Lyrica per month for fifty cents! 90 lortab 10's also for 50 cents and 90 1mg xanax for, yep you guessed it, fifty cents and she dosent take any of it...she gives it all to me.
But the lortabs are useless because of my high tolerance.
But I swear the lyrica staves off withdrawl!!!! I love that shit.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

i actually dont pay anything for lyrica. i pay 3 bucks for the suboxone.

yeah, lyrica is just about as good as a benzo for anxiety or opiate wd.

hopefully drs will start catching on that you dont need to script people vicodin and xanax when lyrica and tramadol is fine. i mean the pregabalin has analgesic effects itself, which is why it is the only thing besides cymbalta for fibro.

 

[Vaya]

Studies, studies, studies...

Thanks for your critique, Bo - I'm in graduate school studying Biological Psychology, so I've had quite a bit of time to understand the importance of all the confounds you correctly identified. The reason I posted it at all was merely that it popped back into mind when I read homey's question. I agree - it definitely is not the be all end all of inquisitions into the efficacy of pregabalin for GAD.

vaya, i know you found that study that said there is NO cross tolerance, but i dont know man. 7 days off and 450mg does not do what 300 used to, by far.

Like I said, it was the only thing anywhere I could find having investigated cross tolerance between the two drugs. Who knows, perhaps the study was flawed or alternatively that the existence of cross tolerance comes down to individual physiology. Either way, the amount of trouble I had to undertake to find an answer at all indicates that MORE RESEARCH NEEDS TO BE DONE!!

I only wish we had the resources to just conduct the research ourselves. At this point, I find the compounds so severely interesting that I could see myself investing the time and energy necessary to get a fuckin' real answer!

Thanks again, by the way, for sending out the monograph - I mean really. I'm so excited to discover that inn my mailbox one of these days!

All the best,

~ vaya

 

[homeydontplaythat]

ummmm, about that monograph, hehe. i think i threw out the duplicate, dude. what i can do is just makes copies of the one i have though. should be like 12 pages though. ill have to get some stamps.

 

[tmoneyinc]

What is the best way to get your doctor to switch you off lyrica and back onto an opiate regime? Or semi-syn. like Tramadol?

Also in everyones lyrica opinion what are the best combos with this drug? Whats works well with the gaba group?

Cheers!

 

[pixplzthx]

i actually dont pay anything for lyrica. i pay 3 bucks for the suboxone.

yeah, lyrica is just about as good as a benzo for anxiety or opiate wd.

hopefully drs will start catching on that you dont need to script people vicodin and xanax when lyrica and tramadol is fine. i mean the pregabalin has analgesic effects itself, which is why it is the only thing besides cymbalta for fibro.

Agreed. I was on/off opiates for almost ten years. I was finally scripted Lyrica™
a few years ago and my opiate needs went way down. I really like the effects that it has both medicinally and recreational use.

One last thing: I've been off of opiates (because I didn't really like them medicinally) for over a month or two. Tuesday I went in to tak about my lower back. I told them I don't want another opiate so: "What else can you do?"

I was told to try Lidoderm™ patches and to apply them "where it hurts." These patches have been out since 1999! They work amazingly. the lidocaine goes through the skin and numbs the nerve roots. I still use Lyrica to conquer most of the chronic pain.

I first got injured in late 2000. I think that doctors are robots that come in say "Hi", pretend to listen to you, and then prescribe some horrible pill. I would never have been on the OXyContin roller coaster if I had known about Lidoderm™. My primary is going to get an earful of hate next week!

 

[homeydontplaythat]

so lyrica helps with pain/potentiates the opiods? great. yeah, if you can get away with it try lyrica and tramadol. i may want to try nucynta. its basically stronger than tramadol but not as strong as oxy.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

oh i have a question. i love lyrica but i worry about tolerance and losing the effiiacy of the drug. therefore i tried to substitute it with gabapentin for a week as i thought there was no cross tolerance. this didnt seem to work and gabapentin has no effect on me.

im thinking i should get scripted xanax to supplant the lyrica for 5 days off per month. im going to have to say i want it in case of panic attacks though. does anyone think this is a good/bad idea? i suppose i could just not use anything for 5 days once a month. does 5 days seem long enough, or would i need even less time??????

 

[FPU4eva]

so lyrica helps with pain/potentiates the opiods? great. yeah, if you can get away with it try lyrica and tramadol. i may want to try nucynta. its basically stronger than tramadol but not as strong as oxy.

dude stay away from tramadol and lyrica, Last summer I was addicted to both of them all the while I had constant access to heroin, oxy and any other hard opiate and benzo i wanted and no matter what what ended up making me go to rehab was the combination of those 2, you know how weird it was telling the doctors I was in rehab because of lyrica? the drug is horribly addicting at recreational levels(taking 500mg-1 gram a day) and after a week of it you will have the worst detox i have experienced, before i had opiate withdrawl bad and it wasent a 10% of what lyrica withdrawl was, and combining that with the mighthy withdrawl from the snri effects from the tramadol and the opiate withdrawls from the o-desemtyhtramadol or w.e its called combined made for one hell of a withdrawl that made me go into a catonic state, im not telling u to just drop them because as long as you dont build to bad of a tollerence lyrica will help ur pain alot. even better then opiates for the certain pain. but i am not a doctor but i advice everyone in the world do not become physically dependant on lyrica!

 

[homeydontplaythat]

i think i may just go with not using anything for 5 days a month.

 

[tmoneyinc]

@FPU4eva
Rehab on this lyrica shit. You must be trollin'. What was so appealing to this combo over even horse?? That had you jacked up in rehab..

And no one answered my previous question, ya we all know about opiods, I mean't like anything else. Even OTC? Or do is it interac with anything? DXM, benadryl forexample.

Either way it seems with most drugs (*not talking anything excempt scripts), if you can have self control and can taper off things, it means you can essentially allow your body and most often mind to become addicted but always find your way back down..Just my thoughts.

Those of us who are pure addicts and just in it for the sheer desire to push it to the limit without any care or caution. Most often end up in rehab. The rest don't, simple observasion from board links and post readings.

I think we'd all be surprised how many of even like our next door neighbours are running constant habits or used too-only excersing discipline and self control to keep them from going that extra step.

Do as you please but know your limits. Sounds retard I suppose but it's the honest truth. I've often seen on various sites over the years of many coming to the self realizes that they "Just wanted to become an addict and get addicted as fuck" Not 100% intently I guess but still willingly and knowingly getting so deep into whatever scripts that have, that they end up in the same one place.


It's like a syndrome..a diease..
People boarding a kamikaze plane ride into certain hell. Rehab.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

fuck, its been exactly 1 month that i have been taking lyrica and my tolerance has gone up. i would take 150mg in the morning on an empty stomach and feel BEAUTIFUL all day. now i get about 1/4 of the effect. instead of taking 300mg tomorrow morning i think i need to take a break.

how long do you think i need to stop for my tolerance to reverse????
the half life is 6hrs so at 24hrs i would have 6.25% in my system....i would think it would be analogous to kicking heroin. so about 7 days? i suppose i could do one full work week or 5 days.

any thoughts are highly appreciated. i would like someone with experience to comment.

 

[amanitadine]

dude stay away from tramadol and lyrica, Last summer I was addicted to both of them all the while I had constant access to heroin, oxy and any other hard opiate and benzo i wanted and no matter what what ended up making me go to rehab was the combination of those 2, you know how weird it was telling the doctors I was in rehab because of lyrica? the drug is horribly addicting at recreational levels(taking 500mg-1 gram a day) and after a week of it you will have the worst detox i have experienced, before i had opiate withdrawl bad and it wasent a 10% of what lyrica withdrawl was, and combining that with the mighthy withdrawl from the snri effects from the tramadol and the opiate withdrawls from the o-desemtyhtramadol or w.e its called combined made for one hell of a withdrawl that made me go into a catonic state, im not telling u to just drop them because as long as you dont build to bad of a tollerence lyrica will help ur pain alot. even better then opiates for the certain pain. but i am not a doctor but i advice everyone in the world do not become physically dependant on lyrica!

^^ man, im sorry, i know the exact hell of which you speak. Lyrica withdrawal is so fricking terrible at those high doses, and yes, it is even worse combined with tramadol withdrawals. I experienced just such a year or so ago. And there is oh so very little to do about, nothing to take to relieve that hell. Benzos helped a little, but there is a nasty verging on psychotic state you end up in and recovery is VERY slow. I was amazed at the time how few reports of pregabalin withdrawal were out there. Tread with care!

homeydontplaythat - yeah tolerance creeps in pretty dramatically after the first month. It takes (in my experience) around two days for your tolerance to drop dramatically for alot of the effects but some aspects dont really ever return. The first few weeks is really the honeymoon stage (i thought i had finally found the RIGHT med for me!) and alot of those sensationally good anxiogenic /subtle euphoric traits that really made pregabalin stand out just are forever muted. I've heard many people compare it to MDMA in that regard, in that it is never as good as it was at first. But yeah, after a couple day break you should at least feel the effects of 150mg in the morning. Twas a shame because I really thought Lyrica was the perfect GAD drug for me. It does however continue to work great for actual nerve pain.

cheers