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The LYRICA (pregabalin) Mega Thread

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very nice

Very nice commentary there.. I too am guilty of the brevity issue, but as I initially took my first dose of lyrica last Tuesday (day 2 into my hydromorphone detox with sub), and the results and euphoria was something that not only got me through the second toughest thing I've ever done since beating cancer (i'm 25), but created a state of great feeling and emotion.motivation that NO-ONE could ever understand, except all of you.. I think that's where some of the "
play by play" comes from but not all.. All in all, I'm very happy that I joined and I have people here who can maybe wrap their heads around what I've experienced, what i'm currently doing, and what problems/successes my future will hold.. Thank you all, esp. veya and homey.
 
homeydontplaythat said:
vaya, was there more than one study that claimed there is no cross tolerance btw gp and pg?
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On the entire internet, utilizing Google Scholar, PSU's LIAS database, PubMed, ProQuest, PsychINFO, the Journal of Psychopharmacology, and several other lessser-known but equally-esteemed databases, that was the ONE and ONLY article that contained the following three search terms: gabapentin AND pregabalin AND ("cross tolerance" AND/OR "cross-tolerance")

As far as my ability to search abstracts, citations, scholarly articles, clinical trials, database articles and journals goes, that was it. I searched for three hours (no joke, I am impassioned about this issue as I take Lyrica and have taken Neurontin and the issue directly affects me) and could come up with nothing comparable. I even tried nixing out the word "cross" from the search windows, looking only for pregabalin, gabapentin and "tolerance," but with the same results. Sorry man :\ It was highly frustrating, to say the least.

EPSdeja24 said:
Very nice commentary there
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Thank you so much, EPS; it was from the heart, and it's highly inspiring to know it was received well by at least one person. My heart goes out to you for your (young!) struggle with cancer, and I feel warm inside knowing that you beat it. That is a Herculean feat, my friend; my very best to you and those who love you. Please stay with us here on Bluelight.

~ vaya
 
homeydontplaythat, I want to THANK YOU again for that drugs-forum link; I've been reading it and....

...what a f*cking comprehensive post on pregabalin. Just, thank you for it. I've extracted a lot of pleasure and knowledge from reading it, and I would have been naive, moreso, had you not shared it with us. Kudos and Bravo!

~ vaya

Actually, I have a question after reading that article - it says "generic forms are available" and I was under the impression that Pfizer's patent on pregabalin didn't run its course until at least 2011, if not later. Can someone clarify this, as I'm currently being f*cked in the ass because my insurance won't cover the cost of the Pfizer brand pregabalin each month ($267.87 USD/month for ninety 150mg white capsules per month)?

Additionally, I've always been interested in the 200, 225 and 300mg capsules; are these not available in the United States? I've read on Bluelight that the highest available single-dose capsule in the US was what I get, i.e. the white 150mg capsules, although I've never seen a reference for that claim and am highly curious. Thx!
 
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Took about 800mg with my 40mg Oxycontin and a few 8mg D's and i lost my balance a few times and my eyes have been droopy. Really nice when combined with Vicodin as well since the Vicodin is a little shitty by itself.
 
Indeed to it is thank you.


homeydontplaythat said:
oh, another thing. in the monograph there was a section on gabapentin as it related to pregabalin. they compared doses of 300mg of gabapentin and 100mg of pregabalin. again, this leads me to believe that pregabalin is 3 TIMES MORE POTENT than gabapentin.

i think this is helpful info.
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vaya, there is no generic of pregabalin. i dont know what the fuck they were talking about. however, you could look into a patient assistance program. i was on one for suboxone and received the medication for FREE. totally worth checking out.

after being on gabapentin for 3 days now i can say with slight confidence that the two drugs are not the same. the effects of both vary wildly. the molecular structures are different as well. the fact that there is no cross tolerance tops it off. i really was under the impression that pg was an evergreened version of gp. it is not. they are very closley related but they are different drugs.

i think im just going to stop taking the gp and wait until sunday to resume lyrica. the gp doesnt do ANYTHING.
 
very nice

I just got my script filled from my doc's at MDAnderson and it's def. 200mg capsules, 90 count. They are def out there! And vaya, your words were very kind and uplifting, as I am still in the mental struggle of dealing with such a serious diagnosis/treatment at such a young age.. Thank you again and I will def. be continuing my posts here @ bluelight
 
Revelation? Further testing may be required...

homeydontplaythat said:
after being on gabapentin for 3 days now i can say with slight confidence that the two drugs are not the same. the effects of both vary wildly. the molecular structures are different as well. the fact that there is no cross tolerance tops it off. i really was under the impression that pg was an evergreened version of gp. it is not. they are very closley related but they are different drugs.
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In response to this, I am going to throw something wild out there that I have been thinking about recently.
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I personally believe you can say with complete confidence that the two drugs are not the same!

Pregabalin was designed to be a successor to gabapentin, not a more potent analogue of gabapentin. The two compounds share the properties of being GABAergic anticonvulsants with nocioception-blocking properties, but I believe this is less likely due to the inhibition of glutamate release via the blockage of voltage-gated N-calcium channels, but rather the inhibition of substance P release via the blockage of voltage-gated N-calcium channels. The degree to which each drug accomplishes its inhibition of neurotransmitter release is obviously different based on the variances in potency, and more or less neurotransmitters of other types may still be released despite the presence of one drug or the other.

Thus, GP & PG's mechanisms of action (although not known precisely) are the same. The obvious difference lies in the efficacy of the mechanism; PG is obviously more efficient and effective at blocking the release of substance P, which accounts for why a lower milligram dose is required. In my mind, the less obvious difference between GP & PG lies in their respective side effects profiles*. I think that GP's side effects profile is more haphazard and uncontrolled than that of PG; its side effects are more weakly expressed in a wider range of physiological and psychological areas in the human body. By contrast, PG's side effects manifest more strongly throughout a narrower range of the human body's physiology and psyche.

*When I use the term side effects profile here for each of the two compounds, I am referring to their primary effects (for instance, "mood stabilization") that are not related to nocioception in any way. I do not mean "side effects" in the traditional sense of the term, such as "dry mouth" or "constipation."

The article that I dredged up established that there is no cross-tolerance between GP & PG. Given that their mechanisms of action are the same (which ought to imply cross-tolerance), one hypothesis of mine for explaining the paradoxical lack of cross-tolerance is that the differences between the side effects profiles (as I have defined them here) may be implicated in either negating, preventing, re-routing or rendering physiologically impossible the development of the type of cross-tolerance one would expect to see between two compounds with nearly identical modes of action.
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*whew*
It took me so very long to put into hopefully comprehensible terms what I believe may lie at the root of the disparity between scientific logic and what we are observing in reality with regard to these fascinating chemical compounds. I shall leave it open to scrutiny now.

~ vaya
 
anyone know what doses are recomended for treating anxiety? i know they officially indicate it for that in europe. any europeans wanna chime in?
 
There is generic pregabalin the world round, save for the U.S. Dunno bout canada. And yeah, having experienced the sheer horror that is pregabalin withdrawals, I am very cautious now. Gabapentin and pregabalin def share alot of similiar effects, but I agree they are markedly different. Gabapentin does however substitute for pregabalin whilst in withdrawals....I've found it takes about 4 times as much gabapentin (ie 600 mg will sub for 150mg of pregab) And amen to limited absorbtion...Staggering works wonders with gp.

I think there will much deeper understanding of the pharmacodynamics of these drugs in the upcoming years. Pregabalin withdrawal is not nearly as physical as I would have asssumed. It (in my experience) is a strangely mental affair....LOTS of rebound anxiety, hopelessness, and shades of psychosis abound....also much slower to resolve than I would have guessed. I recently went two weeks with no pg or gp and improvement was very slow. Wonder drugs indeed, but they come with a cost that is steeper than most think. Tread carefully!:D
 
Aye but patent law is country specific. I just returned from 9 months in India surviving off of 4 or 5 different generic pregabalins. Still expensive by Indian standards, but about 5% the cost of Lyrica in the states.
 
amanitadine said:
Aye but patent law is country specific. I just returned from 9 months in India surviving off of 4 or 5 different generic pregabalins. Still expensive by Indian standards, but about 5% the cost of Lyrica in the states.
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Not really, they get away with it because it is so prevalent and it is not worth a corp to go after the thousands of cases with lawsuits, unless of course you are the RIAA/MPAA and due it unlawfully being automated..
 
Alright, I currently take gabapentin 400mg four times a day for social anxiety. I was taken off of clonazepam at a low dosage of 2mg a day that I was taking for 7 years, then put on gabapentin to "counter withdrawal". Anyway, that's all over with, and now I'm taking the gabapentin. I've gathered that the bioavailability is bad, the tolerance skyrockets after the first dose, etc. I've been thinking about spacing my dosage two days apart from each other, plus I've even tried asking if phenibut could substitute for gabapentin (since, long story short, I run out of my gabapentin before I can get a refill).

That said, I'm curious if there's a possibility I could be put on pregabalin if I asked my psychiatrist under the right conditions? Or is this medicine prescribed in a different way? Basically, I want a medicine that works like gabapentin, but I don't want to deal with taking 1800mg or more of something when there's something else I can take ~300mg and have the same relieving effects. Is pregabalin something that you can get from through your psychiatrist, or is this something completely different? Is this worth talking to my psychiatrist about if I have problems with gabapentin?
 
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