Dissociatives The effects of long term ketamine use

[mysticquiche]

Hey everyone

This is my first post here on bluelight, but I have been using this site for a good 10 years now and have found it to be very helpful, not only for me but for my friends for whom I share the information I read about on here with. My true love when it comes to drug classes is hands down psychedelics (LSD-25 specifically), so you'll see me mainly hanging around the psychedelic forum.

Apologies if this has been discussed before. I did use the search function and have memories of reading anecdotes of people describing the effects of long term ketamine use but what I want to talk about is perhaps a little more specific. I'm fully aware of the implications that long term ketamine use/abuse can have on the body, I have suffered cramps a few times myself but fortunately nothing more serious. I am also aware of the perma-tolerance that comes with using it frequently, both from first hand experience and from reading about it on here countless times.

What I wanted to discuss however, is if other people have noticed that the effects that they get from ketamine has changed with long term use. Even when I had been a fairly frequent user for 5 or so years, I was still able to reach a place where I could close my eyes, lay back and my mind would take me on a whirlwind trip through different landscapes and imagery, all the while my body would feel like it was either levitating or sometimes being dragged around the room (in a nice way haha). For the past couple of years, when I consume high enough doses that send other people into that psychedelic hole, I often have a strange reaction that can be cause for concern. I get complete amnesia, and instead of being motionless, people have said that I start getting up and falling around, dramatically throwing my arms around, knocking my head against walls. I then come around from the experience with no recollection of what's happened. I know that that sounds potentially dangerous, but this has fortunately only ever happened in the confides of close friends homes and although they have been a bit alarmed by my reaction, they have never had any real cause for concern.

I'm basically just interested to hear if anyone else has these 'blackouts' and weird bodily reactions instead of a soothing calming psychedelic k trip. I don't believe (although I cannot guarantee) that it's due to the quality of what i'm taking as I have a good understanding of what good K is and although there has been some poor stuff around over the last couple of years, there's also been some great stuff.

If anyone has anything to add, please do! Also, if I have done anything wrong please correct me.

Love to you all x

 

[G_Chem]

Hey everyone

This is my first post here on bluelight, but I have been using this site for a good 10 years now and have found it to be very helpful, not only for me but for my friends for whom I share the information I read about on here with. My true love when it comes to drug classes is hands down psychedelics (LSD-25 specifically), so you'll see me mainly hanging around the psychedelic forum.

Apologies if this has been discussed before. I did use the search function and have memories of reading anecdotes of people describing the effects of long term ketamine use but what I want to talk about is perhaps a little more specific. I'm fully aware of the implications that long term ketamine use/abuse can have on the body, I have suffered cramps a few times myself but fortunately nothing more serious. I am also aware of the perma-tolerance that comes with using it frequently, both from first hand experience and from reading about it on here countless times.

What I wanted to discuss however, is if other people have noticed that the effects that they get from ketamine has changed with long term use. Even when I had been a fairly frequent user for 5 or so years, I was still able to reach a place where I could close my eyes, lay back and my mind would take me on a whirlwind trip through different landscapes and imagery, all the while my body would feel like it was either levitating or sometimes being dragged around the room (in a nice way haha). For the past couple of years, when I consume high enough doses that send other people into that psychedelic hole, I often have a strange reaction that can be cause for concern. I get complete amnesia, and instead of being motionless, people have said that I start getting up and falling around, dramatically throwing my arms around, knocking my head against walls. I then come around from the experience with no recollection of what's happened. I know that that sounds potentially dangerous, but this has fortunately only ever happened in the confides of close friends homes and although they have been a bit alarmed by my reaction, they have never had any real cause for concern.

I'm basically just interested to hear if anyone else has these 'blackouts' and weird bodily reactions instead of a soothing calming psychedelic k trip. I don't believe (although I cannot guarantee) that it's due to the quality of what i'm taking as I have a good understanding of what good K is and although there has been some poor stuff around over the last couple of years, there's also been some great stuff.

If anyone has anything to add, please do! Also, if I have done anything wrong please correct me.

Love to you all x

Hmm interesting.. I suppose the biggest question is whether your friends get the same effects off these batches, which it sounds like they do. Then I’d think it’s likely that perma tolerance is happening and maybe you’ve raised your dose without realizing it over the years in effort to combat that but now only being left with the anesthetic portion of the experience. That’s my best guess. Welcome to BL too!

-GC

 

[telepathetic]

Hmm interesting.. I suppose the biggest question is whether your friends get the same effects off these batches, which it sounds like they do. Then I’d think it’s likely that perma tolerance is happening and maybe you’ve raised your dose without realizing it over the years in effort to combat that but now only being left with the anesthetic portion of the experience. That’s my best guess. Welcome to BL too!

-GC

Happened to me too. Honestly that has to constitute brain damage IMO

 

[G_Chem]

Happened to me too. Honestly that has to constitute brain damage IMO

It seems Ketamine can be neurotoxic or neurogenesis inducing depending on the dosage (as with most drugs).

Frontiers | Ketamine: Neuroprotective or Neurotoxic?

Ketamine, a non-competitive N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor (NMDAR) antagonist, has been employed clinically as an intravenous anesthetic since the 1970s. More...

www.frontiersin.org

According to this article sub-anesthetic doses are neurogenic whereas anesthetic doses can be neurotoxic.

I take that as so long as one stays below hole doses they should be fine. But OP sounds like you aim for the hole so maybe you’ve accrued some toxicity over that time.

Tolerance and toxicity seem to go hand in hand with MDMA so I’m assuming the same is true here.

I’ve never holed personally and have very little tolerance increase.

-GC

 

[telepathetic]

It seems Ketamine can be neurotoxic or neurogenesis inducing depending on the dosage (as with most drugs).

Frontiers | Ketamine: Neuroprotective or Neurotoxic?

Ketamine, a non-competitive N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor (NMDAR) antagonist, has been employed clinically as an intravenous anesthetic since the 1970s. More...

www.frontiersin.org

According to this article sub-anesthetic doses are neurogenic whereas anesthetic doses can be neurotoxic.

I take that as so long as one stays below hole doses they should be fine. But OP sounds like you aim for the hole so maybe you’ve accrued some toxicity over that time.

Tolerance and toxicity seem to go hand in hand with MDMA so I’m assuming the same is true here.

I’ve never holed personally and have very little tolerance increase.

-GC

Never holed?! You are seriously missing most of the psychedelic potential

 

[G_Chem]

Never holed?! You are seriously missing most of the psychedelic potential

Ya me and dissociatives just don’t jive. I get nothing from Nitrous. DXM was ok but I felt the other receptors it hits was the reason for that. And I like K but if the dose goes too high I’ll panic. I’m someone that likes feeling connected, maybe to the point of detriment, but when I start to feel myself slipping away from myself (in that way only dissociatives do) I can’t handle it. Salvia

Strange cuz I never have this issue with any psychedelics or empathogens. I seem to handle DMT and others much better than most. So who knows…

-GC

 

[telepathetic]

If you go above that dose you won't comprehend fear

 

[mysticquiche]

is that how it works though? only being left with the anaesthetic effects? because even then, it doesn’t add up due to the way that i apparently throw my body around.

could you expand on the brain damage part telepathetic?

 

[Dead But Smiling]

Hey everyone

This is my first post here on bluelight, but I have been using this site for a good 10 years now and have found it to be very helpful, not only for me but for my friends for whom I share the information I read about on here with. My true love when it comes to drug classes is hands down psychedelics (LSD-25 specifically), so you'll see me mainly hanging around the psychedelic forum.

Apologies if this has been discussed before. I did use the search function and have memories of reading anecdotes of people describing the effects of long term ketamine use but what I want to talk about is perhaps a little more specific. I'm fully aware of the implications that long term ketamine use/abuse can have on the body, I have suffered cramps a few times myself but fortunately nothing more serious. I am also aware of the perma-tolerance that comes with using it frequently, both from first hand experience and from reading about it on here countless times.

What I wanted to discuss however, is if other people have noticed that the effects that they get from ketamine has changed with long term use. Even when I had been a fairly frequent user for 5 or so years, I was still able to reach a place where I could close my eyes, lay back and my mind would take me on a whirlwind trip through different landscapes and imagery, all the while my body would feel like it was either levitating or sometimes being dragged around the room (in a nice way haha). For the past couple of years, when I consume high enough doses that send other people into that psychedelic hole, I often have a strange reaction that can be cause for concern. I get complete amnesia, and instead of being motionless, people have said that I start getting up and falling around, dramatically throwing my arms around, knocking my head against walls. I then come around from the experience with no recollection of what's happened. I know that that sounds potentially dangerous, but this has fortunately only ever happened in the confides of close friends homes and although they have been a bit alarmed by my reaction, they have never had any real cause for concern.

I'm basically just interested to hear if anyone else has these 'blackouts' and weird bodily reactions instead of a soothing calming psychedelic k trip. I don't believe (although I cannot guarantee) that it's due to the quality of what i'm taking as I have a good understanding of what good K is and although there has been some poor stuff around over the last couple of years, there's also been some great stuff.

If anyone has anything to add, please do! Also, if I have done anything wrong please correct me.

Love to you all x

I was thinking about ketamine today too and I have an add-on question for anyone: how fast does your tolerance go up?

 

[mysticquiche]

I was thinking about ketamine today too and I have an add-on question for anyone: how fast does your tolerance go up?

I can’t comment too much on how quickly your tolerance builds when you’re new to k, assuming that that might be the reason for your question, because that was too long ago for me to remember

From personal recent experience though, it builds pretty quickly. If you take a break of several months you can start with small amounts again but it’s not long until your tolerance is back to where it was at. i’d advise saving it for special moments because it is truly beautiful

 

[negrogesic]

Ya me and dissociatives just don’t jive. I get nothing from Nitrous. DXM was ok but I felt the other receptors it hits was the reason for that. And I like K but if the dose goes too high I’ll panic. I’m someone that likes feeling connected, maybe to the point of detriment, but when I start to feel myself slipping away from myself (in that way only dissociatives do) I can’t handle it. Salvia

Strange cuz I never have this issue with any psychedelics or empathogens. I seem to handle DMT and others much better than most. So who knows…

-GC

Yes me too, not a dissociative fan. I've never experienced a "hole" from ketamine, but it did occur from deschloroketamine. A few times. And i only took it once. However i took around 500mg over the course of an evening, before instructing my girlfriend to flush it down the toilet. I was high for days, being far longer acting and around 3x the potency of ketamine. It was very neat, but I'd never repeat that experience. I never enjoyed ketamine itself, except for intravenously, it had an opioid like quality, it felt "good" and more narcotic than IM, which just felt weird, anxiety provoking.

In any event, to the OP, what do you mean by frequent user, quantitatively? Ie how much, how often, via which ROA? Specifically im trying to understand the potential origin of the ketamine-induced dyskinesia you're describing (though of course anything anyone says here is just a guess)

 

[Dead But Smiling]

I can’t comment too much on how quickly your tolerance builds when you’re new to k, assuming that that might be the reason for your question, because that was too long ago for me to remember

From personal recent experience though, it builds pretty quickly. If you take a break of several months you can start with small amounts again but it’s not long until your tolerance is back to where it was at. i’d advise saving it for special moments because it is truly beautiful

Yeah that’s what I thought, faaaast growing tolerance. The fiend in me is pissed cause I wanna use it daily til the bags empty. oh well! Thanks!

 

[Bitchniggaz]

I get a similar effect if ive binged for some time..
My theory is that the nmda tolerance builds alot quicker then the dopamine tolerance.

So if you use enough ket it turns into a more pcpish trip where you are mentally gone bit your body can still move.

 

[mysticquiche]

Yes me too, not a dissociative fan. I've never experienced a "hole" from ketamine, but it did occur from deschloroketamine. A few times. And i only took it once. However i took around 500mg over the course of an evening, before instructing my girlfriend to flush it down the toilet. I was high for days, being far longer acting and around 3x the potency of ketamine. It was very neat, but I'd never repeat that experience. I never enjoyed ketamine itself, except for intravenously, it had an opioid like quality, it felt "good" and more narcotic than IM, which just felt weird, anxiety provoking.

In any event, to the OP, what do you mean by frequent user, quantitatively? Ie how much, how often, via which ROA? Specifically im trying to understand the potential origin of the ketamine-induced dyskinesia you're describing (though of course anything anyone says here is just a guess)

So it depends, as I tend to go through stages of varying use. It can be up to 3g a day for a week and then nothing for a couple of weeks. If i'm at a 4 day festival then I can easily get through 10g+. I have breaks of up to 2 months sometimes too, so yeah, my usage really varies but I am fully aware that I am doing too much regardless. The complete amnesia and weird body movements do not happen every time either. I was just curious to see if anyone else had experienced similar effects. ROA has only ever been via snorting it.

 

[mysticquiche]

Yeah that’s what I thought, faaaast growing tolerance. The fiend in me is pissed cause I wanna use it daily til the bags empty. oh well! Thanks!

Yeah, do it til it's all gone. I know that one

If you can, try to moderate. As in my experience, over consumption leads to diminished returns and a certain loss of the wobbly magic.

 

[mysticquiche]

I get a similar effect if ive binged for some time..
My theory is that the nmda tolerance builds alot quicker then the dopamine tolerance.

So if you use enough ket it turns into a more pcpish trip where you are mentally gone bit your body can still move.

This sounds plausible. That's what it's like, in my head i'm somewhere else as if i am holing but my body has other ideas.

The few times when it has happened, it has been when i've been binging.

 

[jhjhsdi]

instead of being motionless, people have said that I start getting up and falling around, dramatically throwing my arms around, knocking my head against walls. I then come around from the experience with no recollection of what's happened

Happens all the time to me :/

 

[jhjhsdi]

I've had many injuries including broken bones. Makes me wary of using high dose alone, but doesn't seem to stop me.

I feel like when I inject big doses I should wear a neck brace and a full face helmet, or be strapped into a hospital bed with a trip sitter. One of my preferred places to do big shots now is strapped into a passenger car seat with a sober driver overlooking lol.

I miss the days where I would jus got immobile on high doses. What its down to - i dont know. Could be a change in the chemical, could be cuts, could be tolerance being so high it doesn't immobilize the body, yet still detaches the brain from the body.
Pretty dangerous. Such a shame tolerance never really goes away, even after year long breaks.

 

[Hippy Flower Fairy]

Don't even get me started on K tolerence it's fucking shit, me snorting loads and hardly feel a thing, my mate does a line and is telling me she don't feel human anymore, someone else I know has been using it almost daily for years and still feels the K as drinks with it

I can't remember the last time I had a K hole, I need a tolerence break man but I love K dammit

 

[G_Chem]

Yea those dosages are too much IMO. 10g at a festival isn’t light usage by any means lol. I hardly use 1/100th of that at a festival myself.

Honestly I’d say I probably only go through .25-5g a year these past few years and still have been noticing a slight tolerance growing from that little of use.

-GC