The EADD Metathread - Let's talk about how we can improve EADD

[Sammy G]

As a starter for ten, here's a proposal. Stringent application of the rules. Anything that comes across as hateful or bigoted gets unnapproved. Repeat offenders get infracted. And no account is made for it being "funny", or "honest".

Not a bad place to start, is it? With the rules that are already there.

And fuck anybody who consequently complains of 'censorship', because they really are talking from their top hats.

 

[knock]

OK, I am actually willing to give that a shot, but it's not just me, there are four moderators plus the senior staff, and there are also lots of members, possibly there is a compromise solution.

Also before starting on a new hardline policy, I want everyone to have a chance to make their voices heard, so I'm not about to start anything right this minute.


Snolly - I don't want to draft a new set of rules, although maybe we could evolve something over time. In the first instance, we could just be hardline according to our gut feelings. People need to know this is happening before it starts, though, otherwise we'll just get a deluge of moaning and griping. We'll get that anyway, I suppose, but at least "we did tell you".

 

[ColtDan]

Can you not exercise some judgement even when you're off your trolley? I think I do.

This

Theres no excuse for being a cunt, fucked or not

 

[Sammy G]

OK, I am actually willing to give that a shot, but it's not just me, there are four moderators plus the senior staff, and there are also lots of members, possibly there is a compromise solution.

With all due respect, forget about the people in bold. At least just this second.

This is a staff decision, and staff are going to have to enforce it.

 

[masaz]

OK, I am actually willing to give that a shot, but it's not just me, there are four moderators plus the senior staff, and there are also lots of members, possibly there is a compromise solution.

Also before starting on a new hardline policy, I want everyone to have a chance to make their voices heard, so I'm not about to start anything right this minute.

Sound by me.

 

[knock]

With all due respect, forget about the people in bold. At least just this second.

This is a staff decision, and staff are going to have to enforce it.

I disagree, the forum is here for the members, not the staff. But it's also here for new/potential members. And the general non-posting public, but I guess we can't hear them. I think everyone who can be heard should have the chance to make their feelings known.

In the final instance, yes, staff must take the decision. But I want to listen to our members first.

 

[Marmalade]

urgghh 'stringent' application of the rules is a really really ireally gonna piss lots of people off because not all the rules apply in certain situations

Why not firstly, before going that militant. discuss like we're doing now, set out the examples of what's alienating and what's turning people off, and issue a warning that if it continues then stringent application of rules will be enforced.

It can cause all manner of problems when you go in hard immediately ... boundaries get pushed, rules get probed left and right, normally requiring more 'policies' to be drawn up to accomodate this and that.

Can't there be a 'we're not fucking kidding guys, tone it down a bit and think before posting', period first, please?

I think it really needs that first personally

 

[Sammy G]

I disagree, the forum is here for the members, not the staff.

Congratulations. You just failed your first 'deadpan humour detection test'.

But it's also here for new/potential members.

Indeed.

Can't there be a 'we're not fucking kidding guys' tone it down a bit and think before posting period first, please?

Hasn't worked, has it? Maybe it's time to try a different approach?

 

[ColtDan]

Your new avatar thing aint half as good as your old one

 

[Marmalade]

I disagree, the forum is here for the members, not the staff. But it's also here for new/potential members. And the general non-posting public, but I guess we can't hear them. I think everyone who can be heard should have the chance to make their feelings known.

In the final instance, yes, staff must take the decision. But I want to listen to our members first.

And this knock, is why you're so fucking awesome and I'm so glad you're a mod and Sam is no longer one

 

[knock]

Now now marmalade! I love you too but there's no need to hate on Sammy!

 

[Sammy G]

Are you quite finished? :D

 

[knock]

urgghh 'stringent' application of the rules is a really really ireally gonna piss lots of people off because not all the rules apply in certain situations

I know. But we really don't have time to be judicious in our application of the rules in such a way as that every judgement is nuanced.

Why not firstly, before going that militant. discuss like we're doing now, set out the examples of what's alienating and what's turning people off, and issue a warning that if it continues then stringent application of rules will be enforced.

Yes this is a good idea.

It can cause all manner of problems when you go in hard immediately ... boundaries get pushed, rules get probed left and right, normally requiring more 'policies' to be drawn up to accomodate this and that.

Can't there be a 'we're not fucking kidding guys, tone it down a bit and think before posting', period first, please?

I think it really needs that first personally

OK, maybe this is it.

 

[masaz]

I think a 'probationary period' would be a good idea, aye. I know Sammy's said it's not worked up to now and that might be true, but we hadn't explicitly set it out before now. I don't want to make the place a humourless overly sensitive bore-a-thon, but I do want people to feel like they can post without getting jumped on. Hence why I said I'd like this be on the members as much as the staff, cos we could just go around editing and deleting and whatever but that wouldn't be tackling the problem and would just end up breeding resentment.

 

[Sammy G]

Ooooohhhh.. knock! Knock!!!

Can you pweeeaaaase pwetend that we members are weeeeallly important?

And not weaaaallly do anything about anything, but just say we've been a bit naughty and weeave it at that till the next time we're a bit naughty?

Pwetty pweease, knock?

 

[Shambles]

What Snollz said mostly. Insensitive comments in RIP threads should be warned/infracted/removed/unapproved/whatever in all cases (imo, etc, etc) but there is always gonna be problems on the BLaw, the Letter of the BLaw how rigid and stringent they are, how and when they are applied and whose version of moral/ethical/social/political Truth is truest and such like is a far trickier beast altogether. The BLUA does state pretty clearly that any offensive personal comments will result in warning and infractions so it's not like people shouldn't be aware they need to bear that in mind before posting at all times. Being fukked is no excuse if it's anything other than a first offence cos however fukked you may be you've been around long enough to have had time to read the rules.. If a few of 'em were to be applied more rigorously then this would count as fair warning and I tend to be of the opinion that posts that are liable to cause serious offence, upset or insult then people should learn a bit of common decency and stop whinging about fukkin censorship. It's not censorship it's basic human decency. EADD needs to be a place where any and all feel comfortable and safe to read, post and join in without having to worry about arseholes being dicks

(would that be a prolapse? i really should've thought that last sentence through properly )

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I dunno Knock, there's so many different issues involved. I would imagine EADD traffic peaked around the same time that mephedrone was becoming more and more widely known, it is well known that this caused an explosion of interest in and discussion of said topic and related topics, so things will have inevitably died down a bit after such a surge. Also apparently the average time for an active member to maintain their interest in any internet forum is 5 years, i dont know why this is the case. Obviously there are some people here who have been members since the year dot literally.

I dont like seeing hate fuelled argument raging across the forum, its an ugly sight, and does little to support or raise the spirits of anyone. I have occasionally been foolish/deranged enough to take the bait and let go of all my rage and vent/rant at whatever rattled my cage that day. But the things you are talking about, like any posts that threaten, intimidate, bully, or belittle any one else on whatever grounds are allready covered by the rules. Its a difficult one allright, and this little ramble doesnt really contribute anything.

We need a new mephedrone.

EDIT: Yeah what Shambles said.

 

[Raasyvibe]

Yeah, it just keeps happening though and it is affecting people and the view of this forum negatively. And I'd say it was definitely insensitive but then I don't know Raas enough to say it's bigoted, or is a remark like that just inherently bigoted? It's a hard one to get into really which is why it would be awesome if people could just try and be more sensitive to stuff like this instead of us having to draft a massive set of rules and trigger words and god knows what that everyone has to adhere to. Being fucked isn't exactly an excuse when I'd say more than half of us are constantly fucked and don't cause the same degree of offense, or edit it swiftly if we say something we realise is a bit off; god knows I've done it from time to time if I realise the person I'm talking to could take something badly or what I've said could be misinterpreted.

No, I'm not a bigot. But I do have an opinion, and that is I do not like to see people go ahead with sex changes. From RL observation I know that the "change" can be a manifestation caused from a lot of previous psychological damage. I think it's an awful thing for a person to go ahead with, when it is produced from other complex's. Why I generally do not like it when everyone congratulates them and is so happy for them, leading them into a false sense of acceptance.

I accept my opinion is not one that BJ would like to here, so the sensible thing I guess would be to keep my thoughts to myself while everyone congratulates him/her. But after a few wines you tend to be a little less inhibited.

I have nothing against BJ and respect for his/her decisions and I addressed this thereafter -

I'm glad BJ has had the confidence to be open to others about her/him self and I'm sure that will become a positive pre-cursor to whatever stage of personal progression it leads too. No offence intended towards his/her choice whatsoever

Bad judgement (due to alcohol) on expression of an opinion towards a very sensitive issue. But the comment was not bigotry, and the poster is not targeted. Sorry the new poster has gone, but honestly if they listened to my later response and discussed the issue with me, we could have resolved it. Having a go then running away isn't exactly fair and I can't say I feel bad about that.



PS - When I refer to BJ as "him/her" this is not meant to be derogatory either, I sincerely do not know as yet what BJ would like to be referred to.

 

[Sammy G]

The BLUA does state pretty clearly that any offensive personal comments will result in warning and infractions so it's not like people shouldn't be aware they need to bear that in mind before posting at all times. Being fukked is no excuse if it's anything other than a first offence cos however fukked you may be you've been around long enough to have had time to read the rules.. If a few of 'em were to be applied more rigorously then this would count as fair warning and I tend to be of the opinion that posts that are liable to cause serious offence, upset or insult then people should learn a bit of common decency and stop whinging about fukkin censorship.

Absolutely spot on.

Though from some quarters we're hearing that the BLUA isn't enough, and that people should undergo further consultation on what does and doesn't constitute acceptable behaviour. Rather than the it being up to the individual member to conform to the terms of the BLUA in the first place, and the responsibility of the mods to ensure that members comply.

Which seems bizarre to me, but there you go...

 

[knock]

I dunno Knock, there's so many different issues involved. I would imagine EADD traffic peaked around the same time that mephedrone was becoming more and more widely known, it is well known that this caused an explosion of interest in and discussion of said topic and related topics, so things will have inevitably died down a bit after such a surge. Also apparently the average time for an active member to maintain their interest in any internet forum is 5 years, i dont know why this is the case. Obviously there are some people here who have been members since the year dot literally.

I dont like seeing hate fuelled argument raging across the forum, its an ugly sight, and does little to support or raise the spirits of anyone. I have occasionally been foolish/deranged enough to take the bait and let go of all my rage and vent/rant at whatever rattled my cage that day. But the things you are talking about, like any posts that threaten, intimidate, bully, or belittle any one else on whatever grounds are allready covered by the rules. Its a difficult one allright, and this little ramble doesnt really contribute anything.

We need a new mephedrone.

I wasn't around on BL before the mephedrone phase, so I don't know what it was like before. You're right that things died now after the meph craze died down. And yeah, the 5 year thing, that's what I meant by "natural attrition rate".

But I really do think that the childish and offensive nature of some posts put off new members. We really could do better.

No, I'm not a bigot. But I do have an opinion, and that is I do not like to see people go ahead with sex changes. From RL observation I know that the "change" can be a manifestation caused from a lot of previous psychological damage. I think it's an awful thing for a person to go ahead with, when it is produced from other complex's. Why I generally do not like it when everyone congratulates them and is so happy for them, leading them into a false sense of acceptance.

I accept my opinion is not one that BJ would like to here, so the sensible thing I guess would be to keep my thoughts to myself while everyone congratulates him/her. But after a few wines you tend to be a little less inhibited.

I have nothing against BJ and respect for his/her decisions and I addressed this thereafter -

As I said, it's fine to discuss these issues, but it would be better done in a more sensitive manner and in it's own thread. You have the power to create new threads. I know that, you've done it before.

Bad judgement (due to alcohol) on expression of an opinion towards a very sensitive issue. But the comment was not bigotry, and the poster is not targeted. Sorry the new poster has gone, but honestly if they listened to my later response and discussed the issue with me, we could have resolved it. Having a go then running away isn't exactly fair and I can't say I feel bad about that.



PS - When I refer to BJ as "him/her" this is not meant to be derogatory either, I sincerely do not know as yet what BJ would like to be referred to.

I don't think it's too late for our new poster to come back. But people react to stuff in different ways, and that's why it's good to be a bit sensitive. We have a whole general public who don't post that benefit from information here, and some of them might join up and brighten the place up, if only we didn't scare them away.