The Big & Dandy Synthetic Cannabinoids Thread

[Youkai]

No it doesn't. Psychedelic was coined by H. Osmond and it means 'expansion of the mind" or "mind manifestation." It has to do with a state of mind.

Any other definition is incorrect.

but in thatsense a actual compound isnt psychedelic, I can be completely sober and have a psychedelic thought/experience. so is thought psychedelic? Or is the mechanics behind thought the psychedelic catylists? Im mean realy its all just phanomina that we try to lable, but it expresses its self on some many layers that a simple word liek psychedelic doesnt explain it enough to give IT a proper deffinition.

I mean, smoke some weed and day dream, be sober and day dream, is there a difference in psychedeli action?


and earlier I was meaning to say bud isnt pharmacologicaly? psychedelic.

 

[HAHA420]

what about HU-210?

the claim "HU-210 is 100 to 800 percent more potent than natural THC from cannabis and has an extended duration of action." always kind of caught my eye. any idea as to the validity of this claim?

 

[e1evene1even]

what about HU-210?

the claim "HU-210 is 100 to 800 percent more potent than natural THC from cannabis and has an extended duration of action." always kind of caught my eye. any idea as to the validity of this claim?

Wow, I wasn't aware of that one. Great find. Thats exactly the type of thing I am talking about. I would say the claim is pretty valid. Another interesting claim is that "HU-210 actually stimulates cell growth in the brain's hippocampus region, an opposite effect of drugs like alcohol, nicotine, heroin, and cocaine."

"Zhang's team incubated samples of rat hippocampus with a solution containing HU210, a drug that stimulates CB1 receptors with a strength 100 times (!) greater than that of pot." Notice how that quote says 100x stronger not 100% stronger!

the article then goes on to state "animals injected with high daily doses of the drug over the course of 2 weeks had about 30 percent more newborn nerve cells than did rats given AM281 or a solution without either drug."
(http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20051015/fob7.asp)

Interesting for sure. I do agree with FnB that it would be much easier to extract THC from natural sources, but then perhaps that could be used as the starting material to make different analogues of the drug. Although it seems that most of the discoveries will be made by the pharmaceutical companies (when they eventually start researching the health benefits of cannabis more thoroughly) rather than a 'rogue chemist' like Shulgin. HU210 is already Schedule I in the US, what about the rest of the world? I can imagine that there are many more potent synthetic cannabinoids to be found in the future, I'm just surprised that there hasn't been too much interest up until this point.

 

[fastandbulbous]

It seems that replacing the 5-pentyl chain in THC with other alkyl/alkenyl groups does give rise to a whole series of active analogues; I remember reading that it's thought that the trippy high of things like Thai weed is due to the presence of THCV (THC, but with a propyl chain in place of the pentyl group).

BTW, human trials with HU-210 describe it as being unpleasant as it's so long lasting and potent (probably more like the effects of eating a load of hash, fun for the first day, then you just wish it would end)

 

[time traveler]

could anyone seriously imagine stoners hooked on HU-210 ? 100 times more potent ? shit you would have more active personas at a retiremtent village or plugged to machines in an intensive care ward ......

 

[Xorkoth]

Marijuana is definitely a psychedelic. The problem is that once you start to use it frequently or even just regularly, you begin to lose sight of its psychedelic qualities because your body and especially your mind become so used to it. I'm definitely an example of this myself, but I still consider marijuana to be an important step (as well as the first) in my mind expasion due to drugs throughout my life. I used to trip in every sense of the word from weed.

Sure, it's not as fully psychedelic and doesn't have anywhere near the clarity of the full-on psychedelics like LSD and mushrooms and quite a few less researched compounds, but it doesn't mean it's not a psychedelic at all.

 

[gloggawogga]

I'm surprised there isn't a plethora of cannabinoid related chemicals flooding both the 'underground drug culture' and our collective nervous systems...

Well I'll give you a few reasons why such a market hasn't come to critical mass. The first, is that pot is everywhere and is very easy to get. One reason you see a lot of psychedelic research chemicals because LSD isn't everywhere and isn't as easy to get. And there's certainly not much of an impetus amongst the pot head crowd to try research chemicals, especially when there are always different strains of weed to try, so only a psychedelic connoisseur would be interested in a research cannabiniod. Then there's the problem of how to synth these chems in a clandestine lab. AFIAK all of these synthetic cannabinoids are derived from the natural cannabinoids in weed. So you would still have to grow pot to produce these chemicals, and I don't think the synthesis techniques are easy. If you want to make money, it'd be a whole lot better just to sell your fine pot and make other chemicals in your lab. There is also nothing like TIHKAL or PIHKAL published on these chems. Those books gave chemists a big head start on how to synth tryptamines and phenethylamines and also users a big head start on which ones might be worth trying.

 

[Sprinklervibes]

meh, iv been smoking weed everyday for the last 4 years, every fri sat sun in middle school. sure its psychedelic LIKE but the actual actions are missing, I think it's more along the lines of just a sedative you can think/causes hyper active thinking. I mean, you look stoned but your mind is racing.

If you eat mushrooms a few days in a row it starts feeling like pot. Try not smoking for a year and then force a huge amount of potent smoke down your lungs.

 

[fastandbulbous]

AFIAK all of these synthetic cannabinoids are derived from the natural cannabinoids in weed.

Not sure what's meant by this statement... they are chemically derived from modification of the structure of THC, but most are made synthetically without ever going anywhere near a THC molecule (most involve a 5-substituted resorcinol and various terpinoid compounds with an appropriate amount of post synth modification). The only one that'd have anything beyond a curiosity value would likely to be the THC nitrogen analouge that allows for the production of water soluble salts and as such allows use by snorting, injection etc

 

[Sprinklervibes]

What is the structure of a "cannabinoid"?

 

[Detrevni]

This is Tetrahydrocannabinol. Also a list of other cannabinoid structures.

 

[Sprinklervibes]

So cannabinoid is a group of chems rather than a chemical itself?

 

[Church]

Yes. The suffix "oid" means "that which is like." So, an opioid is that which is like an opiate. A humanoid is that which is like a human. And so forth...

 

[Detrevni]

Yeah, there is a endogenous(sp.) cannabinoid system and a range of chemical structures that "fit the lock".

 

[kong]

Many terpinoid compounds are out there. They are used to flavor foods/beverages. Very unwatched. A guy on overgrow awhile back was vaping them in different combinations with pure CBN, CBD, and THC (he lived in the netherlands) with excellent results. He reported that he could roughly replicate the high produced by certain strains of pot (blueberry and skunk) by adding the terpinoids that smelled similar to the CBN/CBD/THC mix.

He also claimed that vaping any combination of CBN/CBD/THC w/out terpiniods produced an inferior high, with noticable anxiety. Before anyone gets too excited, he said that terpiniods on there own did next to nothing, allthough tasted great! Without doing any research, off the top of my head the only specific chemical I can remember was called "limon" and was purported to be responsible for part of skunks smell.

This info is taken entirely from my inperfect memory from a thread that seems like it was from about 3? yrs ago. This guy was a well established member of overgrow, so if anyone one reading this can remember his name that would be great. He's probably still on a cannibis board somewhere. What I just wrote is very incomplete, (and possibly inaccurate). He had personal experience with ALOT of combinations.

 

[Dr.Heckyll]

HU-210 wouldn't fly beasuse of the reasons F&B gave already.
Win55,212-2 has low bioavailablit, so unles you want to shoot it, it's no good.
CP-55940 is probably the most promising candidate, ifonly the synthesis wasn't so complicated,

Actually all cannabinoids are diffícult to make, and that fact will put a stop to all undergreund synthetic cannabinoids. Plus the fact that there is ample supply of weed.

 

[vecktor]

the terpines are mostly responsable for the smell of cannabis, pseudocannabis sometimes used to train dogs is a mixture of terpines. the formula is in a safe hidden behind a wall inside a secret basement inside a bunker underneath the headquarters of the DEA.

 

[vecktor]

NMDA antagonist cannabinoids

it appears that there are cannabinoids ie structurally related to THC which are inactive at cannabis receptors instead are active as NMDA anatagonists, similar to PCP and Ketamine. HU211 is one example. I wonder if the reason HU210 is dysphoric and unpleasant is due to NMDA antagonism combined with CB1 and CB2 agonism. this fits with the neuron growth stimulating effects of HU210, with HU211 the neuron growth effects are thought to be to do with NMDA antagonism combined with the potent antioxidant effects.

there are some interesting cannabinoids out there, methanandamide for example is only slowly metabolised unlike anandamide and is fairly selective for CB1, more importantly it is legal and would not show up on any drug screen.

 

[kong]

Any predictions for the active dose of methanandamide?

 

[Dr.Heckyll]

This paper should answer yiur questions:

Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2006 Oct;188(3):315-23. Epub 2006 Sep 5.
Discriminative stimulus functions of AM-1346, a CB1R selective anandamide analog in rats trained with Delta9-THC or (R)-methanandamide (AM-356).Jarbe TU, Lamb RJ, Liu Q, Makriyannis A.
Department of Psychology, Temple University, 265-67 Weiss Hall, 1701 North 13th Street, Philadelphia, PA, 19122, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To characterize in vivo the high-affinity cannabinoid CB1 receptor (CB1R) selective anandamide analog AM-1346 [alkoxyacid amide of N-eicosa-tetraenylamine] using drug discrimination procedures. D-amphetamine and also morphine in the (R)-methanandamide-trained group (see below) were examined to assess pharmacological specificity. METHODS: Three groups of rats were trained to discriminate between vehicle and (1) 1.8 mg/kg Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta9-THC); (2) 5.6 mg/kg Delta9-THC; and (3) 10 mg/kg (R)-methanandamide (AM-356; a metabolically stable analog of anandamide). Delta9-THC was given i.p. 30 min and (R)-methanandamide 15 min before training. RESULTS: AM-1346 generalized to all three training conditions, both at 15 and 30 min after administration. The rank order potency was: Delta9-THC > AM-1346 > (R)-methanandamide. AM-1346 appeared slightly more potent 30 min compared to 15 min postadministration. In the presence of 0.3 mg/kg of the CB1R antagonist/inverse agonist SR-141716A, the dose generalization curves of Delta9-THC and AM-1346 resulted in parallel shifts to the right in the 1.8 mg/kg Delta9-THC-trained group. A long duration of action for AM-1346 (relative to AM-356) was indicated in tests where AM-1346 was examined in the 5.6 mg/kg Delta9-THC-trained group. Neither D-amphetamine, nor morphine generalized in either of the groups, suggesting pharmacological specificity. CONCLUSION: Unlike (R)-methanandamide, the surmountable antagonism between SR-141716A and AM-1346 shows that the structural features of anandamide can be modified in ways that reduce the dissociation between the discriminative stimulus and rate decreasing effects of CB1R agonists derived from an anandamide template.

PMID: 16953384 [PubMed - in process]