The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread

[organicshroom]

MDMA releases lots of dopamine (refer to the pie charts in the current thread on bk-mdma).

ebola

It's all relative I guess, I'll elaborate. I was referring to MDMA releasing dopamine in much smaller amounts compared to d-amphetamine as per numbers below. So one could say mdma ain't a strong releaser relatively speaking, but then, maybe it goes to show dopamine activity is rather less significant than serotonin release, hence why DARI's may be effective enough. Also given the numbers below, only <20mg of d-amphet is required to match 100mg of mdma with dopamine release(correct me if I am wrong on this logic).

(dextro/levo-)MDMA (NE: 136; DA: 278; SE: 74.3)
(dextro-)Amphetamine (NE: 7.07; DA: 24.8; SE: 1765).

 

[push]

I attempted the M1 / MDAI combo last night and would have to say it was disappointing. I dropped 100mg of M1, orally mixed with water, followed by 50mg of MDAI, orally in water, 30 or so minutes later, followed by a second 50mg, orally in water a further 15 mins after this. I really didn't take a good idea of time though so the times I dropped the MDAI may have been longer following the M1 than stated. I finished with a 50mg dose of M1 after 1 hour 30 mins, also orally in water.
There really was little effect, the M1 took effect after about 20-40 mins, the usually effects for a dose that size, noticeable music appreciation, everything looking more vibrant and a little body load. The MDAI really didn't seem to add anything to the experience. There was no euphoria or empathy, generally the music appreciation and higher visual sense was the main effects, also the undeniably feeling to want to lie down, this was also the effect the last time I took methylone, that was 50mg, followed 30 mins later by a 50mg redose and a final 50 redose 30 mins after that. Both times the strong feeling of having to go lie down has been apparent, and lying there is very calming listening to music when I do succumb. This is strange, usually methylone makes me full of energy, intense euphoria and empathy and music appreciation. This could be down to the dosages though.
Back to the MDAI - M1 combo, the main effects, although very subtle, and when I did get up from lying down around 2 hours after the first dose I did notice stronger body load, but in the sense of a feather light body, the usual blurred vision was present too. When the main effects wore off there was very little comedown, possibly the MDAI attributed to this, really just the usual not being able to get to sleep; this wasn't possible until around 8am this morning, with the first dose of m1 taken at 9:30 last night!
I have theories for this lack of effect with this combo however.
Firstly the first time I did M1 it was 150mg, I really didn't feel much of anything and from how people told me the experience should be it was disappointing. I remember the main effect being a great calm and everything looked amazing, but little euphoria or empathy. The next time I did 200mg and it was everything I was told it would be, this was in a couple of days following the first time. I felt first alerts inside 5 mins going all the way up in levels to full blown euphoria, empathy, it was incredible, the music appreciation was so intense. I am 6.4 so it may be possible to assume anything under 200mg or possibly 180mg will have little effect. I can't say for sure, really only going on my first two experiences and the intense ten fold effect jump between a dose of 150mg to 200mg. I really don't know how the MDAI would fit into this but perhaps 200mg or even 150mg of M1 to 100mg or possibly 150mg of MDAI would be the more effective dosing. It is very possible 200mg m1 - 200 MDAI is the preferable dosing for the full mdma like effects people are experiencing on this combo. Everyone is different and they are both RC's so it is very difficult to say, one persons 100mg - 100mg combo could be anothers 200mg - 200mg for example. I do think the 150mg different to 200mg difference was down to my height and build though.
Another possible reason for lack of effects is the pattern of dosing. It may have been a better idea to dose 100mg m1 with 100mg MDAI at once rather than split apart as I did. It's possible the split dosage of MDAI affected the experience. Again though it could very well be down to my height and build, this same combination and dosage could be very effective with someone else.
Next time I will try 150 mg m1 - 150 mg MDAI, dropped almost simultaneously, and report back the difference to last nights experience.
A final reason could be down the quality of the MDAI I have and reading about the batches coming out now. The MDAI I have is the light brown cocoa like freebase which people seem to report is a lot weaker than some of the pure MDAI making it's way out now.
Has anyone else had the MDMA like success some say to have had experienced with this combo, and if so, what were the dosages you found more effective?

 

[voidwalker]

I've read a few random pages from this thread but I haven't been able to find conclusive information about the synthesis of this compound. Is it anywhere in the literature ?I have the paper "Synthesis and Pharmacological Examination of Benzofuran, Indan, and Tetralin
Analogues of 3,4-( Methy1enedioxy)amphetamine " but as far as i can see, it doesn't have MDAI covered in there. I'm not a fan of stims, but this one i liked, mild and non-toxic. I would really like to attempt making it from pieces If somebody can provide further info or point me in the right dirrection, I would be most grateful.

 

[naginnudej]

Synthesis discussion is not allowed here. You may, however, be able to find the answer to your question in the Rhodium archives.

 

[organicshroom]

I attempted the M1 / MDAI combo last night and would have to say it was disappointing. I dropped 100mg of M1, orally mixed with water, followed by 50mg of MDAI, orally in water, 30 or so minutes later, followed by a second 50mg, orally in water a further 15 mins after this.

100mg orally of M1 is just above threashold IME, at lower doses of M1 the stimulation and slight mood lift is present without any empathy or euphoria. 50mg of MDAI isn't much over threashold either I would believe. So I'm not surprised you were dissapointed. Because m1 has a stronger affinity for dopamine, and mdai has a strong affinity for serotonin, your need a reasonable dose of each to bring up the experience to near mdma territory.

 

[ebola?]

It's all relative I guess, I'll elaborate. I was referring to MDMA releasing dopamine in much smaller amounts compared to d-amphetamine as per numbers below. So one could say mdma ain't a strong releaser relatively speaking, but then, maybe it goes to show dopamine activity is rather less significant than serotonin release, hence why DARI's may be effective enough. Also given the numbers below, only <20mg of d-amphet is required to match 100mg of mdma with dopamine release(correct me if I am wrong on this logic).

(dextro/levo-)MDMA (NE: 136; DA: 278; SE: 74.3)
(dextro-)Amphetamine (NE: 7.07; DA: 24.8; SE: 1765).

Oh, I think that were using different criteria for propensity to release, in that, as you say, "it's relative" to the dosage-range of the substance. For example, 100 mg of MDMA is a typical dose for a non-tolerant user, while 100 mg d-amp is a ridiculously large amount. Your reasoning in the second half holds.

ebola

 

[noodle1]

How about taking something like 100mg of Roseroot (MAOB Inhibitor) beforehand.

Have found that, on its own, Roseroot can be quite stimulating at >=300mg.

 

[organicshroom]

^ I'd say that would be a waste of time, not enough dopamine would accumlicate to be of much signifcance I believe. Plus it pays to be careful with any MAO inhibitor, they can devolp MAOa activity at higher doses, which is very dangerous.

 

[golden1]

How about taking something like 100mg of Roseroot (MAOB Inhibitor) beforehand.

Have found that, on its own, Roseroot can be quite stimulating at >=300mg.

with deprenyl which is also a MAOB inhibitor it feels decently better, but nothing
special.

When I used 5mg deprenyl + 150mg MDAI + 300mg phenethylamine on the
other hand WOW... strongest euphoria I've ever felt by FAR
also probabaly unhealthy to do

 

[any major dude]

I attempted the M1 / MDAI combo last night and would have to say it was disappointing. I dropped 100mg of M1, orally mixed with water, followed by 50mg of MDAI, orally in water, 30 or so minutes later, followed by a second 50mg, orally in water a further 15 mins after this. I really didn't take a good idea of time though so the times I dropped the MDAI may have been longer following the M1 than stated. I finished with a 50mg dose of M1 after 1 hour 30 mins, also orally in water.
There really was little effect...
Has anyone else had the MDMA like success some say to have had experienced with this combo, and if so, what were the dosages you found more effective?

For a lot of people, myself included, dosages of M1 below 150mg (even higher for some) don't do a whole lot besides cause stimulation & re-dose compulsion.

I also found that, for me, MDAI was very subtle, even up to 100mg. Around 120-150+ was where it started getting interesting on its own. Unfortunately MDAI+M1 doesn't appear to be a 2+2=5 situation. It seems to require the dose one would take for a moderately strong experience with each chemical individually. This is just my experience with these chemicals though.

 

[push]

For a lot of people, myself included, dosages of M1 below 150mg (even higher for some) don't do a whole lot besides cause stimulation & re-dose compulsion.

I also found that, for me, MDAI was very subtle, even up to 100mg. Around 120-150+ was where it started getting interesting on its own. Unfortunately MDAI+M1 doesn't appear to be a 2+2=5 situation. It seems to require the dose one would take for a moderately strong experience with each chemical individually. This is just my experience with these chemicals though.

I see what you are saying man and judging by my experience of this combo I think that, and this may not be true for everyone, but at least for myself and as you have pointed out yourself, this is true. As far as my experiences with MDAI by itself go, 100mg is the most I have done, each time, two 50mg doses orally in water and like yourself found there was very little effects, very subtle stimulation, perhaps slight mood lift but too little to tell, with every possibility this was placebo.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you dose this combo when you tried it and how often apart was each new dosage? Drawing on what your saying it seems to me the dosage that would bring closer to the mdma like experience would be somewhere between 150-200mg of each, taken together, or perhaps drop the MDAI slightly later, within 15-30 mins of the M1 for example, given as already pointed out the shorter duration of the MDAI effects.
Did you find the trip was lengthened when you tried this combo?

 

[Droogs]

What's the 'standard' dose for MDAI? Seems most are taking considerably smaller doses compared to RCs such as Mephedrone/Methylone, 30-50mg of these would have little to no effect on me for what I've experienced. Would 100mg+ of MDAI for a first time dose be too much?

 

[any major dude]

I see what you are saying man and judging by my experience of this combo I think that, and this may not be true for everyone, but at least for myself and as you have pointed out yourself, this is true. As far as my experiences with MDAI by itself go, 100mg is the most I have done, each time, two 50mg doses orally in water and like yourself found there was very little effects, very subtle stimulation, perhaps slight mood lift but too little to tell, with every possibility this was placebo.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you dose this combo when you tried it and how often apart was each new dosage? Drawing on what your saying it seems to me the dosage that would bring closer to the mdma like experience would be somewhere between 150-200mg of each, taken together, or perhaps drop the MDAI slightly later, within 15-30 mins of the M1 for example, given as already pointed out the shorter duration of the MDAI effects.
Did you find the trip was lengthened when you tried this combo?

I found it to be most effective with a large dose up front. Something like 150-200mg of each, depending on how speedy you wanna be. I don't find MDAI stimulating at all on its own, or to potentiate the stimulating effects of M1. I've usually just dosed both the MDAI & M1 at the same time. Usually even in the same capsule. I tried delaying the MDAI by about 15-30mins a couple times, but the come up for it is so subtle that i really couldn't tell a qualitative difference.

One night, after 2 or 3 re-doses I was at about 300mg of each and that was very MDMA like, from what I recall anyway, its been a good while since I've had any good MDMA.

What's the 'standard' dose for MDAI? Seems most are taking considerably smaller doses compared to RCs such as Mephedrone/Methylone, 30-50mg of these would have little to no effect on me for what I've experienced. Would 100mg+ of MDAI for a first time dose be too much?

most likely not, but its best to titrate your dosage up to that level to make sure you don't have an odd reaction to this particular chem. You should always do that with each batch of whatever chemical you're getting just to make sure its labelled properly

 

[Droogs]

True, what would recommend as a tester? Only problem im thinking is if take a small dose it may diminish the effects of a bigger dose a few days later. Does it have any redose value?

 

[bresker]

Will this substance come under this proposed blanket ban of cathinone derivatives in the UK?

 

[Coolio]

Well seeing as it isn't a cathinone...

 

[organicshroom]

Sampled properly last night in combination with 3FMC and bk-mdma. Brilliant stuff, very warm and lush, clean and friendly. Really boosts up the empathy and entactogenic quality's that can lack in bk-mdma and most definitely with 3-FMC.

 

[push]

Sampled properly last night in combination with 3FMC and bk-mdma. Brilliant stuff, very warm and lush, clean and friendly. Really boosts up the empathy and entactogenic quality's that can lack in bk-mdma and most definitely with 3-FMC.

Sounds like an amazing experience! How did you find the overall duration of the trip compared to when MDAI was absent?

Becoming recently aware of this study and thought I should post it here for others to check out.

"Serotonin neurotoxicity in rats after combined treatment with a dopaminergic agent followed by a nonneurotoxic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) analogue.
Johnson MP, Huang XM, Nichols DE.
Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907. There is increasing evidence linking dopamine (DA) to the long-term serotonergic (5-HT) neurotoxic effects of certain substituted amphetamines such as 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA). The present study was undertaken to examine the importance of DA metabolism, uptake inhibition and release in the long-term effects of these drugs by combining various dopaminergic agents with an analogue of MDMA that had low neurotoxic liability, namely 5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindan (MDAI). Monoamine and metabolite levels and the number of 5-HT uptake sites (using [3H]paroxetine binding) were determined 3 hours or 1 week after treatments. Combining the monoamine oxidase inhibitors, clorgyline (MAOA selective) or deprenyl (MAOB selective) with MDAI did not result in any long-term reductions of serotonergic markers. Similarly, combining the DA uptake inhibitor GBR-12909 with MDAI did not result in any long-term changes in monoamine levels at 1 week. In contrast, a single pretreatment of posttreatment with the nonvesicular DA releaser S-amphetamine and MDAI resulted in small but significant long-term changes in monoamine levels. More importantly, if a subacute dosing regimen (every 12 hours for 4 days) was utilized, the combination of S-amphetamine with MDAI resulted in a marked long-term decrease in the levels of cortical, hippocampal and striatal 5-HT, 5-HIAA and the number of 5-HT uptake sites. The results are discussed in terms of the significance of DA and especially nonvesicular DA release in the long-term effects of MDMA-like drugs."

Generally drawing on this it was recommended that if MDAI is to be combined with anything, it should rather be a dopamine reuptake inhibitor such as methylphenidate or MDPV than a dopamine releasers such as methylone/butylone/mephedrone/amphetamines etc.

What do others think of this study, would it affect your experiencing of this combo?
Although not in the same level of risk, my bad experience combining m1 and mephedrone in the past make me a little more wary of the m1 - MDAI combo.

Where do other's stand on the theory MDAI taken with M1 reduces the potential neuro-toxicity of M1 if taken by itself?

 

[Coolio]

That's an absurd theory - why would MDAI reduce potential neurotoxicity of a cathinone? I also don't think there's a shred of evidence that methylone is neurotoxic...

 

[Droogs]

Out of interest, do any of the MDxx's have cross tolerance? Say if I took Methylone a week or so before MDAI, would it reduce the effects and vica versa. If so how long between the two would you want to wait to 'recharge'?