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The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread

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250 mg methylone + 200 mg mdai (freebase) + 1600 mg piracetam produced an experience almost indistinguishable from mdma. Repeated 250 mg booster doses of methylone brought the experience back to a peak 2 more times.

Also, 200 mg mdai (fb) taken prior to a night long bing of mephedrone insufflation also produced an experience almost indistinguishable from certain past mdma experiences.

On its own it sort of reminds me of the beginnings of a dxm trip, or maybe a slight bit like IAP, but really it feels like that first 40 mins or so of the dxm trip when things are just starting to take effect. At least at a dose of 200-250 mgs3
 
Delta-9-THC said:
The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread




200px-MDAI.svg.png





Wikipedia MDAI page

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[original post:]

Has anyone tried this chem or know anything about it.

Would it be illegal? It sounds almost too good to be true: all the empathogenic effects of MDMA with none of the neurotoxicity. Said to have almost 0 stimulation and is in fact slightly sedating.

Why hasn't this been made? Is it difficult to produce or something? Probably just too obscure. Plus the dosage isn't mentioned there. It could be 500mg which would make it very inefficient.

I guess the people who produce MDMA probably wouldn't care much about making something healthier for us. Especially if its more expensive or difficult to make.
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I know a lot of people talk about analog drugs. It is very important to understand (as much as you can of what there actually is to understant. what when it comes down to it, it is obvious what drugs would fall under the analog act becuase if you are buying a research chemical that is unscheduled for the intent to get a high similar to its closest relative then at that point the RC becomes an equal with controlled substances as far as being prosecuted. a lot more organizing needs to be done by the dea because there are still so many grey areas. just when you think you have it figured out, you learn somehting else. oh *snip* you can buy DMAA. now this is particularly interesting to me because DMAA or dimethylamylamine and comes from geranium? can be bought in stores like GNC under the tradename Jack3d. there are many others. and it can also be bought online from regular, non shady health product sites. but to bring me to another point. the site selling dmaa also was selling mdai. so to me if they sell one thing that is sold in GNC's all over then there other products are most likely not going to be considered analog drugs. the ones that i would look out for are trying to buy things like 2c-i. i would not even bother doing the work on trying to figure out how closely these 2 are related as far as chemical structure goes. it's sad that all this makes a person wasn to just go out and buy some good mushrooms or lsd on the street. also i think psychadelics are a main part of most american diets that are lacking. other peoples have used them to help understand human nature and for me it has always helped me cleanse my soul. to partake in such things once in awhile without letting it get in the way of this modern life with work and commuting to me is a good way to keep what is truely important in life in perspective.---peace for now. and please i would love to hear what anyone things of my writings. thanks, take care
 
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Interesting news on the more potent MDAI. I look forward to the old crap making it's way out of the system and getting my hands on some of it...

Caleb Garlipp said:
(snip)
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We do not allow source discussion on bluelight. What a joke of a "source" though - they just ripped off the images and product descriptions from other vendor sites. :-/
 
In general, the better a stimulant feels on its own, the more favorable it will be in combination with MDAI. MDPPP sounds a whole hell of a lot better than MDPV, but so does everything else.
 
Very interested to try the m1 / MDAI combo soon, seems like others experiences so far have been positive. What would people say is the recommended first dosage ratio for this combo that gives the most favorable experience, in terms of closest comparison to a threshold dose of MDMA?
Around 100mg m1 - 50mg MDAI seems to be pretty prevalent. Possibly 100mg MDAI may give a better result.
 
I'd say the latter, with a slightly staggered dosage (in an attempt to extend out that nice m1 peak into something more mdma-like in duration and intensity) sounds like the ticket. But I have no experience with bioassays.

ebola
 
ebola? said:
I'd say the latter, with a slightly staggered dosage (in an attempt to extend out that nice m1 peak into something more mdma-like in duration and intensity) sounds like the ticket. But I have no experience with bioassays.

ebola
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If you read my earlier mephedrone tests try this m1 in a size 0 capsule and mdai in a size 3 capsule to delay dosage ;) haven't tried but could be just the ticket
 
does anyone who has tried the combination know if mdai extends the duration of the entactogenic effects when combined with methylone?
 
Why do so many people search for a drug or combo that mimics mdma?

Availability? I would prefer plain ol mdma if I where looking for that experience. New research chemicals are not likely to be any healthier than mdma. Most likely the opposite.
 
Iodjini_dk said:
New research chemicals are not likely to be any healthier than mdma. Most likely the opposite.
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Why do you think this? Bias much?

True, they aren't as well researched as MDMA so they certainly have the potential to be more dangerous but also less dangerous. We just don't know.

Personally I think a lot of the RCs I have tried (2Cs, 4-sub tryps) feel much more benign than MDMA. Alot of the "research chemicals" that are floating around were first synthesized and ingested by the same man who (re)discovered MDMA: Shulgin.

MDAI is supposed to be non-neurotoxic but it also apparently isn't that spectacular.
 
Iodjini_dk said:
Why do so many people search for a drug or combo that mimics mdma?

Availability? I would prefer plain ol mdma if I where looking for that experience. New research chemicals are not likely to be any healthier than mdma. Most likely the opposite.
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Apparently in many areas, mdma is hard to get, and the quality is poor, and it's often adulterated (often with stuff like meth, that can increase neurotoxicity) And really, MDMA is the king of empathogens/entactogens. All other drugs in it's class are naturally compared to it, and people buy them because they like MDMA and want something similar (or because they can't get acceptable MDMA)

on second point:
MDMA, while it has effects that lots of people love, has some pretty undesirable side effects - well documented neurotoxicity (belived to be responsible for the depression and/or horrible comedowns that some users experience after MDMA use). MDMA has room to improve in terms of side-effect profile. Who wouldn't want MDMA without the comedown, that they could mailorder online instead of buying dodgy adulterated pills?
 
Delta-9-THC said:
Why do you think this? Bias much?

True, they aren't as well researched as MDMA so they certainly have the potential to be more dangerous but also less dangerous. We just don't know.

Personally I think a lot of the RCs I have tried (2Cs, 4-sub tryps) feel much more benign than MDMA. Alot of the "research chemicals" that are floating around were first synthesized and ingested by the same man who (re)discovered MDMA: Shulgin.

MDAI is supposed to be non-neurotoxic but it also apparently isn't that spectacular.
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Well, Im not talking about psychedelics here. Im reffering to the people talking about combinations of 2-3 or more new RC stimulants to mimic the effect of mdma. Of course they can be less toxic than mdma, but IMO mixing considerable doses of these brand new stimulants is asking for trouble, especially regarding cardiovascular health. Also it seems that quite a few people are prone to using these stimulants more often than mdma because their potentential effects on the brain are not well studied. (ie. you dont have a rule of thumb that says once every 2-3 months.)

TheAzo: I get your point about availability and adulterated mdma. Guess Id never buy mdma myself if it was cut to shit with all sorts of crap.

Im not saying that the majority of the users are irresponsible, I was just wondering...
 
Why do so many people search for a drug or combo that mimics mdma?

Availability? I would prefer plain ol mdma if I where looking for that experience. New research chemicals are not likely to be any healthier than mdma. Most likely the opposite.
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I would have said read the damned thread, but it's 30 pp. nao, so. . .

1. There is availability, particularly for those not properly socially embedded to obtain black market items, particularly genuine black market items. Whatever Chinese chemist or Canadian reseller may flub a bit on the purity of his wares, but chances are that s/he won't willfully send inert or alternate agents (although tragic accidents HAVE happened, and people have died).
2. MDMA indeed has some issues. While I would deem it near hedonistically ideal in its profile of monaminergic release, some of its neurotoxicity and hangover syndrome are unique to MDxA. In particular, MDxA can form toxic metabolites unique to the particular molecule. Additionally, MDxA and its metabolites can inhibit tryptophan hydroxylase, exacerbating 5ht depletion, but MDxA can also metabolize to alpha-methyl-dopamine, a dopamine antagonist, contributing to the hangover.

Given the relative safety of MDAI and Methylone (demonstrated by Nichols et al., but of course not in combination), and the possibility that combination of a pure 5ht releaser and a DARI might not present MDMA-like neurotoxicity at all (again, with a tentative basis in research but involving an 'odd' DARI), these sorts of combinations fit into harm reduction.

The problem is the RC stimulants, really. MDPV is known to be comparatively benign physiologically (but kinda doesn't feel so hot). On the other side of the spectrum, mephedrone is likely too cardiotoxic to be used safely. period. Its neurotoxicity is completely unknown, but extremely enduring tolerance to stimulants and empathogens following its overuse presents reason for alarm. Ethcathinone has been demonstrated relatively safe but isn't an ideal stimulant per se (relatively selective NE releaser). And then we have relative unknowns in the middle.

In a magical post-prohibition world, ideal combinations would likely involve methylphenidate, d-amphetamine, or methylone, depending on the user's aim...and possibly IAP rather than MDAI, if some trippiness is desired.

wow, tl;dr. ;)

ebola
 
ebola? said:
Given the relative safety of MDAI and Methylone (demonstrated by Nichols et al., but of course not in combination), and the possibility that combination of a pure 5ht releaser and a DARI might not present MDMA-like neurotoxicity at all (again, with a tentative basis in research but involving an 'odd' DARI), these sorts of combinations fit into harm reduction.

ebola
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The below study by Nichols DE. is quite relevant. Simply put, states how a combination of high dose MDAI and a dopamine uptake inhibitor produces no neurotoxic effect, where as MDAI + S-amphetmaine(potent dopamine releaser) does.


Serotonin neurotoxicity in rats after combined treatment with a dopaminergic agent followed by a nonneurotoxic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) analogue.

Johnson MP, Huang XM, Nichols DE.

Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907.

There is increasing evidence linking dopamine (DA) to the long-term serotonergic (5-HT) neurotoxic effects of certain substituted amphetamines such as 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA). The present study was undertaken to examine the importance of DA metabolism, uptake inhibition and release in the long-term effects of these drugs by combining various dopaminergic agents with an analogue of MDMA that had low neurotoxic liability, namely 5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindan (MDAI). Monoamine and metabolite levels and the number of 5-HT uptake sites (using [3H]paroxetine binding) were determined 3 hours or 1 week after treatments. Combining the monoamine oxidase inhibitors, clorgyline (MAOA selective) or deprenyl (MAOB selective) with MDAI did not result in any long-term reductions of serotonergic markers. Similarly, combining the DA uptake inhibitor GBR-12909 with MDAI did not result in any long-term changes in monoamine levels at 1 week. In contrast, a single pretreatment of posttreatment with the nonvesicular DA releaser S-amphetamine and MDAI resulted in small but significant long-term changes in monoamine levels. More importantly, if a subacute dosing regimen (every 12 hours for 4 days) was utilized, the combination of S-amphetamine with MDAI resulted in a marked long-term decrease in the levels of cortical, hippocampal and striatal 5-HT, 5-HIAA and the number of 5-HT uptake sites. The results are discussed in terms of the significance of DA and especially nonvesicular DA release in the long-term effects of MDMA-like drugs.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1726189
 
That's the study I was thinking of, thanks. The thing is, the choice of DARI was quite odd, as not only does the agent block reuptake but it also inhibits release, only "slightly" elevating levels of intersynaptic dopamine. The analogy with typical recreational DARIs is tenuous (Singh 2000).
 
So in other words a pure DARI wouldn't be effective enough to bring the dopamine activity high enough with MDAI to feel like mdma? I'm asumming that MDPPP has some releasing activity?

At least with d-amphetamine, only a small amount would be required considering that mdma itself doesn't release a huge amount of dopamine.
 
mmm...experiences with combining MDAI with DARIs really vary a good bit idiosyncratically, from, "d00d, I'm rolling balls!" to, "Yeah, this is MDMA-esque, but missing something," to, "This feels like a smoother incarnation of the stimulant I took." You'll have to bioassay for yourself. MDPPP appears to be a nearly pure reuptake inhibitor, but one a lot 'friendlier' than MDPV.
...
MDMA releases lots of dopamine (refer to the pie charts in the current thread on bk-mdma).

ebola
 
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