The Big & Dandy Deliriants Thread

[redeyesmj]

Me and a friend smoked the seeds of jimsons weed back in highschool, not all that bad really. It gave a 3-4hr buzz with mild lsd type visuals, not the horror show of drinking tea or eating the seeds. Stick to smoking if your are going to be experimenting with these potentionally dangerious plants.

 

[daturaface]

I wouldn't do it again, but i've had some amazing, enjoyable trips on datura. Not really worth the real world risks, though. No time for emotions between absolute terror and absolute awe.
Low dose before bed is fun, but staying awake on a low dose just results in a shitload of bad side effects and no fun.

 

[delta_9]

I've had only 2 experinces with delirients, diphenhydramine at 450mg both times. Although it wasn't the best experience I've ever had, it was far from the terrifying ordeal it's often made out to be. Both times I had no sitter and ended up completely fine, although I admit my dose was on the lower side. This was several years ago, and I don't remember much, but I do remember being struck by how real the hallucinations were, and I actually found this really amusing at times.
Was it the insightful or spiritual kind of experience one is likely to get from psychedelics? Certainly not. But neither was it the terror filled hell ride that many often describe.
I'm not saying that those descriptions are less valid, I'm only relating the experinces I've had.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

i want to trip off datura. but when i smoked it, it did not hit at all, and im wondering what would be a better way of ingestion?

Smoking would be ideal, oral ingestion can take hours to peak, so it's not easy to titrate your dose, and it's gonna last a long ass time. Buccal might be possible, I haven't read more than a sentence on it (I read that natives did it in certain situations). Also, if by 'trip' you mean you want to induce delirium it'd be a lot safer to go with dph or some other OTC med since then you'd know your exact dose.

If you want mild sedative/dream enhancing doses,well that all depends on the potency of your particular sample. Are you dealing with leaves, seeds, what? Seeds have high alkaloid content, and tropane biosynthesis occurs in the root system, so either of those would be your best bet for potency. Leaf alkaloid content varies greatly.

Alkaloid content also varies by species, and age of specimen (Datura inoxia and datura stramonium for instance have higher hyoscyamine content relative scopolamine, while Datura metel and datura wrightii are reverse, younger plants also tending more towards higher levels of scopolamine. Not sure there's any subjective difference between the two, and I think they're close potency wise). This for species of the datura genus, not sure about tree datura which is actually a brugmansia.


I'm actually messing with the leaf tea right now, so in a couple days I might be able to give a report of it's effectiveness in small amounts for evening relaxation. Would prefer smoking, but leaves are fresh, and I wanna wait for the plants to grow more (wild wrightii I believe, since that is native to this area) before harvesting the whole plant for root experimentation.

 

[Solipsis]

I think I have a good HR method for anyone crazy enough to try Datura.

1. Abstain from all recreational drugs for a period of time.
2. Brew a tea from one flower with plenty of water.
3. When it's done, pour shots of it and take them on an empty stomach. Take 1 and see how you feel later. Adjust as needed. If the whole flower didn't do shit, then nothing lost but an hour or two. Potency can vary from plant to plant. This is the most dangerous thing about nightshades.
4. Don't eat seeds or plant material.
5. Have a sitter and don't combine anything with it.

Good tips! But best would be if you could give an indication for proper time intervals between drinking a shot of tea / portion of the dose.

Also, there is a solution to #3: if you are able to collect a lot of datura flowers and would dry them really well, then grind to powder, you can use the equal amount of powder an average flower weighs. Only mixing a lot of them will average out and homogenize. This is probably sort of what is meant by standardized extracts: produced on large scale, samples should be close to equivalent in strength... depending on the size of the scale and also how fine it is grinded and powdered.
The same can be done with mushrooms. I think it's a small part funny and a big part annoying that mushrooms can also vary a lot in potency between specimen. I was not able to grind them in the past, but if there is gonna be a future grow for me, one of the things I will do is pulverize it by machine. Another things is use a portion of it to extract, purify and ideally crystallize - then checking for superior storage conditions to keep it from degrading.

Can anyone comment on what could be different about eating flowers, seeds or leaves of these Datura/Jimsonweed/etc ? Is it pretty much the same, and also does the potency vary as much in all parts of the plant? Could it be wise to titrate by eating seeds from the same pod?

Oh apparently there is some answer out there:

5) What is the typical dosage?

Datura intoxication can last from a few hours to many days depending on what
you use (species and part of the plant ingested) and how you use it (dosage
and method of ingestion).

The seeds are typically the most potent, followed by the leaves, flowers,
and stems. Ten seeds is often enough for baseline to mild effects. Keep in
mind, however, that various alkaloid fractions vary considerably among
different species, among different parts of the plant of the same species,
different ages of the plant, and even between the same part of the same
species grown or harvested under different conditions.

There have been extremely varied reported results, especially with smoking
and snorting (ranging from mild headache to full-on delirium), and all forms
of Datura ingestion are potentially hazardous. One should never experiment
with Datura lightly or it will be your last time experimenting with
anything. Start with low doses and be prepared to be intoxicated and
disoriented for quite a while. A safe environment and a sober guide should
be mandatory, as well as having a large supply of water readily available.

So grinding up seems to best after all doesn't it? And oral dosing does sound better than smoking, you just have to have more patience titrating your dose.
Or extract your ground up datura powder and smoke measured doses of that. Should be approaching as reliable as you can probably get.

 

[At My Peak]

This one time a friend and I got a box of 36 dimenhydrinate tablets.. We both took 18 orally at a public restaraunt (we were in there for a while, most horrible tasting pills life could throw at you.... yuck!) anyways he didn't believe that they would do anything, so next thing you know he gets up to walk to the bathroom and nearly falls over.. haha. We ended up walking all over the place and at one point I really started hallucinating but the bad part is somewhere in the trip reality and hallucinations blended together quite perfectly. My mom texted me to find where I was at which I replied "I'm at mcdonalds" and such other texts. She showed me on her phone the next day that the text I thought said "I'm at mcdonalds" showed up as "mcxhdbcuws" and other various ramblings (I don't know how she knew what I meant, guess it's just a mother's instinct) Every few seconds my friend would disappear even though he was sitting right next to me in the restaraunt. I would have to ask him about every minute if he was still there, and he would do the same back. I would look at the walls and see lightning flow through them. He apparently actually went home and I still kept asking if he was there even after he'd left. Somehow he found it home safely and threw his mothers keys into the trash can and tried starting it up like a car. I went home and sat on the couch for the rest of the night with my mother staring at me. She wasn't angry but she was worried. She would say something and I would respond to it in my head but when I went to say it, it would come out as complete and utter scrambled mumbo-jumbo incoherent nonsense. I kept getting the infamous dileriant "shit I dropped it" feeling and look for things, and people kept showing up and disappearing out of nowhere in my living room. At one point during the trip (which I completely do not remember at all) I called my girlfriend at the time and called her a bitch and apparently to meet me at Mcdonalds at 4 in the morning, ahaha. I told her to hurry up because the car was coming.. I have no recollection of that, my friend leaving, or my mother picking me up and driving me home. There are probably many more parts that I don't remember but for the most part I can remember what happened and what I saw after the trip was over. It is a pretty fun and novel experience but one that you wouldn't really have the desire to do very often.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Can anyone comment on what could be different about eating flowers, seeds or leaves of these Datura/Jimsonweed/etc ? Is it pretty much the same, and also does the potency vary as much in all parts of the plant?

From "Distribution of Atropine and Scopolamine in Different Organs and Stages of Development Datura Stramonium L. (Solanaceae). Structure and Ultastructure of Biosynthesizing cells." By Alireza Iranbakhsh, Mohammad Ali Oshaghi, and Ahmad Majd:

Haven't read the paper yet, will do so later and say anything interesting I see in it. Seems to say some different things than the other paper I read, but the other one was from the EFSA and had different aims so I probably just misread it. I'll go over that one again too.

So grinding up seems to best after all doesn't it? And oral dosing does sound better than smoking, you just have to have more patience titrating your dose.

While I can't verify it, erowid lists onset and comeup as both up to two hours each. So it might be like trying to titrate DOx's.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

^The authors of the article cited several similar ones where alkaloid content in the seeds was much much higher.

Also, results of experimenting thus far (all experiences involve tea, some also combine smoking with it, not sure merits of latter ROA yet):
Physical Side effects:
-cottonmouth, dry skin, lowered bowel motility, slowed digestion
-blurred vision, inability to sweat (watch out for overheating!), slight impairment of motor coordination.

Mental effects:
-Headspace not particularly pleasant or unpleasant, just neutral.
-Slight feeling of disconnection, initial onset of effects somewhat pleasant

 

[psychomimetic]

I'm actually messing with the leaf tea right now, so in a couple days I might be able to give a report of it's effectiveness in small amounts for evening relaxation. Would prefer smoking, but leaves are fresh, and I wanna wait for the plants to grow more (wild wrightii I believe, since that is native to this area) before harvesting the whole plant for root experimentation.

Just throwin this out there, but ime leaves only take a couple days to dry and you can smoke them with great effectiveness. I've always found smoked datura to be vastly superior to oral. I used to sublingual and then swallow pinches of dry leaf back in the day for low dose effects as well. Never tried tea.

 

[coolesrat]

datura questions

Would a simple alcohol extraction pull all the alkaloids from the plant matter?- may it be flowers / leaves or seeds

I've also heard when you smoke it's leaves it produces effects would the same be true for a extract but in higher levels ?

All theses questions are because I am thinking of making a extract by using it's leaves, first by grinding it into a powder and soaking for about 3 days in alcohol shaking every now and again then filtering and evaporate it all down to a powder.

Would this work if someone smoked it??? And would it's effect be stronger then it's natural form - I'm guessing yeah, but what effects could one expect

I know datura has a bad history and I am not at all saying you should try this at home or anything just simply asking questions to try and stay safe

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

^Hyoscyamine and scopolamine are both soluble in ethanol (to my knowledge), so it should work. Be careful though, therapeutic doses are in the microgram range. If the extraction works, consider lacing it on an inert (or active) carrier to smoke.

 

[coolesrat]

Are these alkaloids effective when smoked?? Or would another be responsible for daturas effects when smoked?? I tryed finding info on this but couldn't . Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places. I know these are orally active but yeah..

 

[foolsgold]

these thing are starting to look like something that could do me some mental good . maybe unlocking things ?

 

[Axed]

^I don't think so. If that's what you want, I stay stick with psychedelics.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Are these alkaloids effective when smoked?? Or would another be responsible for daturas effects when smoked?? I tryed finding info on this but couldn't . Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places. I know these are orally active but yeah..

Should be the same active ones while smoked (maybe some lost to pyrolysis), just if extracted you would be vaping them of course.

They're not particularly exciting, may have potential for flavoring another drug experience (or something to do while broke and you just want a mild head change). As for smoking the plant matter, I think I enjoy the tea more.

maybe unlocking things

No. Their use as entheogens by natives (at least the ones in this general geographic area) to my knowledge was based on the idea that it let you commune with the spirit world. I think we now know better, delirium is delirium, sure your mind is making the waking dreams, but it's haphazard and random like most regular dreams, not the mirror of the soul that psychs are. Not to mention the hyperthermia and other acute effects of the drug at higher doses present a level of physical danger to the user that cannot be ignored.

 

[!!4iV4HF9R34g]

Natives aren't the only authority on entheogen use. I think being on Datura stramonium has shown me some serious shit. Actually though, I mostly just heard it. Listen to the whispers ha.

Also, here's this awesome TEK for a topical ointment of Datura alkaloids, just like the witches of yonder lol:


-Crush the datura seeds in a fine powder.
-Place the powdered seeds in some lard.
-Add some organic soot.
-Blend well.
-Cook over a gentle heat (below 100 °C) for 2-4 hours while stirring regularly.
-Let sit for a week (at least) in a dark place, stir regularly (several times a day).
-Filter.
-Keep the fatty ointment in a sealed glass jar, in a dark & cool place.

Note: The risk for transdermal absorption of this compound necessitates gloves during preparation.

 

[coolesrat]

Yeah i think the tea would be a better choice xD , but ive heard people getting crazy effects like 2d patterns clay-mation etc etc from smoking datura leaves. Are these storys true?

 

[foolsgold]

reason why i said was iv had some intensely bad trips of late and they have ended up being better for me once over with than the good trip i was after just leaving me feeling more at easy with what's been wrong with me

 

[!!4iV4HF9R34g]

With the tea you still get other water-soluble alkaloids that can induce more nausea and other body load.
I've done plenty of Datura, I find the paste to have the least physical unpleasantness by a long shot, as well as providing a very intense trip.

Smoking isn't bad, but I don't get hallucinations, only the crazy headspace.

YMMV.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Further comments:

Smoking- stronger buzz, less cotton mouth, more likely to give a headache

Tea - Headchange not as profound/more mellow, significant cottonmouth, more likely to cause blurry vision