Tryptamines The Big & Dandy AMT / αMT Thread - 5th Blast

[SensiblyReckless]

Thanks for the answer. While we're at it, do you think 1 mg of etizolam beforehand is a good idea? Just to take the edge off on the comeup...

Yes it will help IME.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

I put 10mg in a glass of orange juice the other week & drank it, I wasn't expecting much, was hoping for just a light stim & mood brightener. It was a lot more active than I expected, wasn't tripping really hard, but it was definitely there.

 

[noobcakes]

Out of interest, has anyone had any experiences with using Flubromazolam to assist with sleep after using aMT or offer any guidance on whether it would interact badly?

 

[AA357]

Man this stuff sounds really weird. Does it feel anything like MDA? Sounds like it might be quite similar.

 

[MBRC]

Actually u could def describe it as a way more visual mda with a Distinct tryptamine body buzz and it's has the classic tryptamine visuals. I took it years ago and really really liked it. it was a blast . Only bad side effect really was stimulation which is worth it bc of the great time your having and the visuals are among the best tryptamine visuals iv ever had..... And headaches from jaw tension sucked. It always made me puke. No other tryptamine has ever made me puke. The reason I haven't touched my amt stash now is bc it's from China and is dark brown like coffee. It's amt I just don't know what to think about it. I read it's prob hbr or could even be succinate so I really don't know what to dose it at.....

Thinking about is actually making me wana try it again. I have like 50 L blotts coming so I can't forsee slipping it in anytime soon . Hmmm lsd + amt ? Ima try to find a day this week for it.

Also I'll let u know how f-lam is for amt come down....

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah it's kinda MDA-like, except more clear-headed and psychedelic. However I find it less visual, but there's a lot more to psychedelia than visuals. Seems that some people find AMT visual while others don't... I've never had a proper visual off it at any dose (and I've taken AMT many, many times up to 100mg (with tolerance)), more like a low-dose mescaline type of thing where colors are brighter and everything looks beautiful, and also a fuzzy corona around lights at higher doses.

If your AMT is brown it's probably freebase that;s old and somewhat degraded. I've never heard of AMT HBr. I guess you never though, maybe there's a salt of AMT that's brown, but dark brown like coffee sounds like degraded AMT freebase to me. Does it smell like ass mixed with chemical fertilizer?

I bet LSD + AMT would be awesome.

 

[AA357]

Actually u could def describe it as a way more visual mda with a Distinct tryptamine body buzz and it's has the classic tryptamine visuals. I took it years ago and really really liked it. it was a blast . Only bad side effect really was stimulation which is worth it bc of the great time your having and the visuals are among the best tryptamine visuals iv ever had..... And headaches from jaw tension sucked. It always made me puke. No other tryptamine has ever made me puke. The reason I haven't touched my amt stash now is bc it's from China and is dark brown like coffee. It's amt I just don't know what to think about it. I read it's prob hbr or could even be succinate so I really don't know what to dose it at.....

Thinking about is actually making me wana try it again. I have like 50 L blotts coming so I can't forsee slipping it in anytime soon . Hmmm lsd + amt ? Ima try to find a day this week for it.

Also I'll let u know how f-lam is for amt come down....

Interesting. From the reports I've read, aMT does seem to be uniquely nauseating... I wonder how effective my pre-trip cocktail of magnesium, ondansetron, loperamide and a first generation antihistamine would be?

And yeah I've heard some tryptamines degrade very quickly.

 

[Xorkoth]

AMT does degrade quicker than some, but not as quickly as others... if you keep it cold and in proper storage it lasts a long time.

It is pretty uniquely nauseating... I rarely get nausea from any psychedelics anymore but AMT does still produce it. If I plug it it's significantly less and actually the effects overall are better and smoother, and the come-up is halved in duration (and AMT has a pretty jangly come-up).

It was my favorite psychedelic for years. It's a wonderful blend between empathogen and psychedelic. Lots of euphoria but it's more mescaline-like than full empathogen-like. Actually AMT has always reminded me a tryptamine version of mescaline. The duration and progression of effects is very similar and they also both gradually wind down until they're gone, very peacefully.

 

[AA357]

[obnixiously abusive and unnecessary post]

Secondly: if you think MDA is a 'normal everyday experience' and that it doesn't make you trip then clearly you've never fucking taken MDA before.

If you knew the first thing about pharmacology you would know that aMT is NOT a typical psychedelic and that my question is entirely valid for these reasons:

1) They are both relatively balanced serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine releasing agents and reuptake inhibitors.
2) aMT is a non-selective serotonin agonist and MDA is a serotonin agonist with low selectivity.
3) They both have an affinity for adrenergic receptors.

In terms of behavioural effects there also appear to be lot of similarities (surprise surprise). Both drugs are stimulants and entactogens in addition to having psychedelic effects.

I have only ever tried MDA but the pharmacology of aMT does look pretty similar on paper. The two guys who responded courteously to my question seemed to notice similarities between the two.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

The post that was needlessly removed was correct. AMT is nothing at all like MDA except in the most vague general terms (it can have stimulant & psychedelic effects). AMT is quite unique.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

OK first of all: You are the most judgmental and obnoxious piece of shit I have ever come across on this forum. I asked a perfectly civil and reasonable question. You have a serious attitude problem and I bet you wouldn't have the balls to talk to me like that in person.

Secondly: if you think MDA is a 'normal everyday experience' and that it doesn't make you trip then clearly you've never fucking taken MDA before.

Thirdly: if you knew the first thing about pharmacology you would know that aMT is NOT a typical psychedelic and that my question is entirely valid for these reasons (now this is probably going to be far too advanced a concept for such a primitive-minded brummie simpleton to grasp but I got a bit of time to kill so what the fuck):

1) They are both relatively balanced serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine releasing agents and reuptake inhibitors.
2) aMT is a non-selective serotonin agonist and MDA is a serotonin agonist with low selectivity.
3) They both have an affinity for adrenergic receptors.

In terms of behavioural effects there also appear to be lot of similarities (surprise surprise). Both drugs are stimulants and entactogens in addition to having psychedelic effects.

I have only ever tried MDA but the pharmacology of aMT does look pretty similar on paper. The two guys who responded courteously to my question seemed to notice similarities between the two.

Secondly, wow, did you really not get the sarcasm in what I said? Hahahaha. Oh wow. You think I was calling MDA a normal everyday experience? Hahaha oh wow.

Thirdly, I think you should research pharmacology a bit more. MDA is not at all a "relatively balanced" releasing agent. It has much, much more activity on 5-HT receptors than dopamine and adrenergic receptors, and the fact that you don't know this makes me think that you're just clutching at straws hoping that if you threw out enough basic pharmacology terms that I'd get intimidated by your enormous intellect and rescind my statement. It's hilarious that you think what you just started is "advanced". You made three extremely general statements and if you don't know that tiny differences in molecular affinity for 5-HT receptors can lead to enormous differences in effects than you need to go back to biochem 101. If extrapolating subjective effects of drugs from the basic data about what receptors they worked on was as simple as you suggest than one would expect there to be no difference in the effects of, say, Mephedrone and MDMA.

 

[Xorkoth]

The post that was needlessly removed was correct. AMT is nothing at all like MDA except in the most vague general terms (it can have stimulant & psychedelic effects). AMT is quite unique.

It was not needlessly removed because it was a blatantly abusive post, and the abusiveness was entirely unnecessary and unacceptable. Why repond to a question with "you're stupid" etc? Why not just respond with your opinion, why did it have to be insulting? Why was your following post just now also insulting and condescending, Rio? I don't get it, and we don't do that in PD. I see you have a variety of abuse infractions on your record that are active, you're not going to be here much longer if you keep doing that.

Anyway I agree that AMT is unique of course but I do find it in some ways similar to MDA, having used MDA before and AMT many, many times before. I used to say it was similar min some ways to MDMA but having now truly experienced MDA I'd say the feeling is a little closer to that. I'd also say I find it more similar to mescaline than to MDA but it doesn't mean I don't see any similarities to MDA and to other drugs as well. What is the harm is drawing comparisons? It doesn't mean I don't think AMT is unique and special. Why did this instill a sense of anger and ridicule? It's not that I don't agree with some of what you said, it's that you for some reason said it in a post that was dripping with personal attacks and a patronizing tone. Again, why? What is the point of such a response? Not only is it mean, and against the rules, and against the goal of this forum, it also doesn't effectively communicate. Are you trying to instill knowledge or just trying to hurt someone's feelings" You catch more flies with honey, no one who disagrees with you is going to listen to you if you say things that way... this is true in life as well as in online forums.

My primary goal here is to keep this forum a friendly place where people don't feel afraid to post for fear of ridicule. Many years ago this forum was full of ridicule and personal attacks and not only did it suck to experience, but it's decidedly un-psychedelic. We're not going to go back there so if you make mean-spirited posts, they're going to be removed and warnings given.

 

[noobcakes]

Following on from my post from yesterday: Last night I tried a 250mcg Flubromazolam pellet for sedation five hours after 40mg (oral) of aMT and it sent me to sleep for three hours. Awoke, another 250mcg of Flubromazolam and it sent me to sleep for another 9 hours but residual aMT was still there are working. Twenty seven hours in bed later and I'm starting to feel human again.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

It was not needlessly removed because it was a blatantly abusive post, and the abusiveness was entirely unnecessary and unacceptable. Why repond to a question with "you're stupid" etc? Why not just respond with your opinion, why did it have to be insulting? Why was your following post just now also insulting and condescending, Rio? I don't get it, and we don't do that in PD. I see you have a variety of abuse infractions on your record that are active, you're not going to be here much longer if you keep doing that.

Anyway I agree that AMT is unique of course but I do find it in some ways similar to MDA, having used MDA before and AMT many, many times before. I used to say it was similar min some ways to MDMA but having now truly experienced MDA I'd say the feeling is a little closer to that. I'd also say I find it more similar to mescaline than to MDA but it doesn't mean I don't see any similarities to MDA and to other drugs as well. What is the harm is drawing comparisons? It doesn't mean I don't think AMT is unique and special. Why did this instill a sense of anger and ridicule? It's not that I don't agree with some of what you said, it's that you for some reason said it in a post that was dripping with personal attacks and a patronizing tone. Again, why? What is the point of such a response? Not only is it mean, and against the rules, and against the goal of this forum, it also doesn't effectively communicate. Are you trying to instill knowledge or just trying to hurt someone's feelings" You catch more flies with honey, no one who disagrees with you is going to listen to you if you say things that way... this is true in life as well as in online forums.

My primary goal here is to keep this forum a friendly place where people don't feel afraid to post for fear of ridicule. Many years ago this forum was full of ridicule and personal attacks and not only did it suck to experience, but it's decidedly un-psychedelic. We're not going to go back there so if you make mean-spirited posts, they're going to be removed and warnings given.

I see where you're coming from. If you look through the guy's posting history you'll see it's extremely rare for him to not launch into an angry tirade of abuse and insults with no provocation whatsoever and he's extremely quick to hone in on people who have slightly less knowledge than himself and capitalize upon it to make posters who aren't mean, insulting or even stupid (just slightly less informed than him) feel like idiot. Those discussions had nothing to do with me so I never bothered to say anything, but then I'm perusing the AMT thread and I see a post saying AMT "sounds weird" and is "similar to MDA", and I could hardly believe this was coming from the same guy who has been so quick in the past to try and make good-natured posters feel like complete idiots for the slightest inaccuracy in posts laden with abuse and profanity, so I was a little quick to point out that his post was silly than perhaps I should have been. Is calling me a "primitive-minded brummie simpleton" not breaking the same rules that caused my post to be deleted?

 

[AA357]

Thirdly, I think you should research pharmacology a bit more, champ. MDA is not at all a "relatively balanced" releasing agent. It has much, much more activity on 5-HT receptors than dopamine and adrenergic receptors, and the fact that you don't know this makes me think that you're just clutching at straws hoping that if you threw out enough basic pharmacology terms that I'd get intimidated by your enormous intellect and rescind my statement.

MDA does have some pretty significant dopaminergic and adrenergic activity. This isn't MDMA we're talking about.

It's hilarious that you think what you just started is "advanced". You made three extremely general statements and if you don't know that tiny differences in molecular affinity for 5-HT receptors can lead to enormous differences in effects than you need to go back to biochem 101. If extrapolating subjective effects of drugs from the basic data about what receptors they worked on was as simple as you suggest than one would expect there to be no difference in the effects of, say, Mephedrone and MDMA.

Did I ever say I expected there to be no difference between MDA and aMT? In my original post I said: "I think aMT sounds like it might feel similar to MDA". Do you understand the difference between 'similar to' and 'no different to'? Of course there are going to be differences in effects.
Oh and in regards to mephedrone vs MDMA... why would that be a stupid question (asides from the fact that it's already been discussed countless times)?

 

[Tranced]

The post that was needlessly removed was correct. AMT is nothing at all like MDA except in the most vague general terms (it can have stimulant & psychedelic effects). AMT is quite unique.

I'd say that AMT is similar to MDA, but only in the way that, say, acid is similar to mushrooms. It certainly has similar properties.

I've always considered MDA to be MDMA-esque. So MDA being a bit like a psychedelic MDMA, and AMT having similar properties to both, it's easy to draw the distinction. At the same time they are also uniquely different to each other. But what isn't, generally? I'd certainly say that MDA is one of the closest substances to AMT that I know of. Well, it was a couple of years ago - maybe it's been trumped by some of the new-ish MDA/6-apb type analogues. I never dabbled with them personally, and I guess it's largely subjective, but they sounded vaguely like sort of trippy empathogens.

One of the interesting things that I find about AMT is that it is a completely different experience every time, even from the same batch and at the same dose.

I've experienced MDMA like headrushes for a solid 8 hours with little in the way of visuals, whilst alternatively, I've experienced solid psychedelic visuals and a fairly light, yet typical, psychedelic trip for 8 hours.

I've also experienced these MDMA style headrushes for 4 hours, then the head rushes subsided and things suddenly got a bitter deeper and psychedelic for the remainder of the trip, and vice versa. Other times I've just been absolutely battered for about 12-14+hours and there has been no word to describe it other than relentless.

The visuals are certainly nothing like MDA in my experience. I've never hallucinated objects with open eyes which clearly weren't there. The visuals are much more typical of tryptamine psychedelics. But that said, I've experienced silly trips which were certainly akin to MDA.

Examples of these are trying to mix multiple tracks on my decks whilst actually lying gurning on the bed listening to a mix, or thinking that I had to fix my graphics card in a club otherwise the music would stop. I didn't even have a graphics card at the time. Thinking you're doing something whilst not is absolute classic MDA, and seeing as these trips were more conceptual than visual, I'd say they were pretty much identical to things I've experienced on MDA (thinking I was working in a call center, telling my mate I was off to paint the gate, etc etc).

I'd say that this is the aspect which makes it similar to MDA. There can be a lot of just sitting there in a mess gurning thinking you're doing things that you're not. That to me is one of the best aspects of MDA. The mindstate is vaguely similar, but the visuals themselves are not. IME.

As humans we attribute labels to describe things and communicate them to others. That's fine, it's just one of things which makes us humans, and certainly one of the aspects which makes a (subjectively) advanced species.

 

[Xorkoth]

I see where you're coming from. If you look through the guy's posting history you'll see it's extremely rare for him to not launch into an angry tirade of abuse and insults with no provocation whatsoever and he's extremely quick to hone in on people who have slightly less knowledge than himself and capitalize upon it to make posters who aren't mean, insulting or even stupid (just slightly less informed than him) feel like idiot. Those discussions had nothing to do with me so I never bothered to say anything, but then I'm perusing the AMT thread and I see a post saying AMT "sounds weird" and is "similar to MDA", and I could hardly believe this was coming from the same guy who has been so quick in the past to try and make good-natured posters feel like complete idiots for the slightest inaccuracy in posts laden with abuse and profanity, so I was a little quick to point out that his post was silly than perhaps I should have been. Is calling me a "primitive-minded brummie simpleton" not breaking the same rules that caused my post to be deleted?

Thanks for the measured response and explanation. It's true that AA gets hot-headed a lot and it's just a fine line to draw for me as a mod. I don't want to censor things, and I don't want to hide any harsh conversation but there is a line and I felt, after reading them all, that your post was definitely the most abusive, and also you started it. Anyway I am going to do some editing in these posts to remove all the back-and-forth argumentative stuff that isn't about AMT. And let's please stay on topic everyone.

Please don't respond to the last post in this back-and-forth either, take it to PMs if you need to continue with each other. Thank you. I will hope you understand I'm just trying to keep PD informational and friendly.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

MDA does have some pretty significant dopaminergic and adrenergic activity. This isn't MDMA we're talking about.


Did I ever say I expected there to be no difference between MDA and aMT? In my original post I said: "I think aMT sounds like it might feel similar to MDA". Do you understand the difference between 'similar to' and 'no different to'? Of course there are going to be differences in effects.
Oh and in regards to mephedrone vs MDMA... why would that be a stupid question (asides from the fact that it's already been discussed countless times)?

You called MDA a relatively balanced releaser. Anyone with any knowledge of the pharmacy of MDA would know that it is not balanced. Did I say it was EXCLUSIVELY a serotonergic releaser? No, but one thing it isn't is BALANCED when it comes to its receptor affinity and thus its effect on post-synaptic neuron transmission. Do you have any idea what "relatively balanced" means when it comes to neurotransmitter activity? Or are you just parroting something you read about AMT and hoping that because you're soooooo clever to know the very basics of how drugs work on neurotransmitters and that you're soooo intelligent for knowing that (because as you said, you were just "killing time" educating me on these "advanced concepts" that obviously I would struggle to grasp ) that I, a mere simple peon without your incredible advanced knowledge of pharmaceuticals, would be too frightened away by all the clever big words you're using and wouldn't look at what you're actually saying?

What you actually said was that amt sounds like it would be similar to MDA, you didn't qualify it with "might feel". Stop trying to negate your generalization. It's like me saying "Oh boy, tramadol sure sounds WEIRD! It sounds like it's similar to Prozac!" - that would be just as correct as your comparison.

 

[Xorkoth]

Come on dudes, stop with the personal attacks. This conversation doesn't really even have anything to do with AMT anymore. I edited some stuff out. I don't enjoy giving warnings but I will do so if this doesn't cool off. Take it to PMs for fuck's sake.

 

[AA357]

Thank you MBRC, Xorkoth and Tranced for your helpful input. I've always been wary of aMT but I think I might give it a go.

When I hear about a drug that has psychedelic, entactogenic and stimulant effects I can't help but think of MDA (which I had once and loved despite the fact that I'd been spiked with it - it was a highly unique and memorable experience).
Obviously I would expect them feel different but as Tranced said; attributing labels and drawing comparisons is part of human nature. It's good to have an idea of what to expect or a point of reference when you're taking a drug for the first time.

You called MDA a relatively balanced releaser. Anyone with any knowledge of the pharmacy of MDA would know that it is not balanced. Did I say it was EXCLUSIVELY a serotonergic releaser? No, but one thing it isn't is BALANCED when it comes to its receptor affinity and thus its effect on post-synaptic neuron transmission. Do you have any idea what "relatively balanced" means when it comes to neurotransmitter activity? Or are you just parroting something you read about AMT and hoping that because you're soooooo clever to know the very basics of how drugs work on neurotransmitters and that you're soooo intelligent for knowing that (because as you said, you were just "killing time" educating me on these "advanced concepts" that obviously I would struggle to grasp ) that I, a mere simple peon without your incredible advanced knowledge of pharmaceuticals, would be too frightened away by all the clever big words you're using and wouldn't look at what you're actually saying?

MDA is the most second most balanced monoamine releasing agent in this table (after 4-methylamphetamine):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_releasing_agent

I couldn't find the Ki numbers for aMT but it is said to be a well-balanced MRA.

What you actually said was that amt sounds like it would be similar to MDA, you didn't qualify it with "might feel". Stop trying to negate your generalization. It's like me saying "Oh boy, tramadol sure sounds WEIRD! It sounds like it's similar to Prozac!" - that would be just as correct as your comparison.

Terrible analogy. The only similarity between Tramadol and Prozac is that they both increase serotonin levels but they do this in very different ways.
Tramadol is a serotonin releasing agent (which Prozac is not). Prozac is an SSRI whereas Tramadol to my knowledge is just an SRI. At least do your homework if you're going to berate me.

This would be a lot more like asking what 2C-E feels like compared to mushrooms, or what ephedrine feels like compared to amphetamine.

I removed pieces from your most recent one as well because they were insults... I left the stuff you said minus the insults. Please, can this be taken to PMs? If you have further questions about this for me, PM me. This thread is supposed to be about AMT.

You have quite a job on your hands.
I didn't mean to cause trouble but I am not going to sit back and let somebody tear into me and try to make me look stupid to the less-informed posters on here. I might not have a degree in medicine or biochemistry but I know enough about how the brain works to know that this is not a stupid question.
I like to draw comparisons between drugs - I always like to have a rough idea of what to expect before I try something new. AMT just sounds to me like it would feel more similar to MDA than any other drug I have ever taken, hence why I asked this question.