Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-HO-DPT Thread

[psood0nym]

^Heh ... were you on MXE up there Mr. Help?!?! (?) I ask because I learned everything about your drug experiences from that post except the answers to my questions. One more question: if not just MXE what were/are you on? I want some.

 

[ZFC]

Please be carefull people, it turns out this is not at all as simple as "an equivalent oral dose is 2 to 3 times an insufflated dose".

50 mg insufflated gave a nice strong and solid buzz for 2 to 3 hours.
50 mg orally was very very very mild or placebo (never more than a +1 achieved).

But 158 mg orally (expected to be slightly stronger than 50 mg insufflated) resulted in a completely unexpected and total ego-loss, full-blown DMT hyperspace in CEVs, and overwhelming OEVs making orientation difficult. It was definitely stronger than 750 µg of LSD squeezed into 4 to 5 hours. I was absolutely not in the right setting at the time and this could have turned horribly wrong. Just be aware of it.

 

[psood0nym]

50 mg orally was very very very mild or placebo (never more than a +1 achieved).

But 158 mg orally (expected to be slightly stronger than 50 mg insufflated) resulted in a completely unexpected and total ego-loss, full-blown DMT hyperspace in CEVs, and overwhelming OEVs making orientation difficult. It was definitely stronger than 750 µg of LSD squeezed into 4 to 5 hours. I was absolutely not in the right setting at the time and this could have turned horribly wrong. Just be aware of it.

I strongly suspected from the character of my first 16 mg insufflated trip with 4-ho-DPT that it possessed the potential to do what you experienced. It was a small dose, but I sensed I was getting my feet wet at the edge of an abyss. Others have said otherwise, but I clearly feel the annihilating light of DPT shining through 4-ho. From what I've read in this thread 70 mg of 4-ho-DPT taken orally will result in a light but definitely active experience. You more than doubled that dose, of a drug whose parent compound is known to change character at higher doses and vaporize egos, and you more than tripled your own first oral dose of it. You were skipping steps and you tripped in an area that made you nervous. I'm glad you recovered with just a few bruises to your psyche but I'm not surprised it happened. If you insufflated 80mg (aack!), or about half your big oral dose, I think you might experience similar. I’m thinking insufflated is still roughly double the potency of oral and your surroundings and drug’s natural character took you by surprise. I have a feeling that phase shift at higher doses is just 4-ho taking after its daddy.

Thanks for figuring out what a strong oral dose is though.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

This is simply wonderful material!
60mg of 4-aco-dmt (oral) + 100mg 4-ho-dpt (insuffilated) produced some of the coolest closed eye visuals I have ever experienced... Very "TRON" esque grids of moving boxes of light all moving in extremely structured order. I was blown away every time I shut my eyes!
As a side note, this was at a multi-day festival and tolorence played a big roll which is why the dosage was so high.

 

[ZFC]

This is simply wonderful material!
60mg of 4-aco-dmt (oral) + 100mg 4-ho-dpt (insuffilated) produced some of the coolest closed eye visuals I have ever experienced... Very "TRON" esque grids of moving boxes of light all moving in extremely structured order. I was blown away every time I shut my eyes!
As a side note, this was at a multi-day festival and tolorence played a big roll which is why the dosage was so high.

Could you be more specific on what you took on the previous days? Without tolerance, this would be an absolutely insane dose.

I strongly suspected from the character of my first 16 mg insufflated trip with 4-ho-DPT that it possessed the potential to do what you experienced. It was a small dose, but I sensed I was getting my feet wet at the edge of an abyss. Others have said otherwise, but I clearly feel the annihilating light of DPT shining through 4-ho. From what I've read in this thread 70 mg of 4-ho-DPT taken orally will result in a light but definitely active experience. You more than doubled that dose, of a drug whose parent compound is known to change character at higher doses and vaporize egos, and you more than tripled your own first oral dose of it. You were skipping steps and you tripped in an area that made you nervous. I'm glad you recovered with just a few bruises to your psyche but I'm not surprised it happened. If you insufflated 80mg (aack!), or about half your big oral dose, I think you might experience similar. I’m thinking insufflated is still roughly double the potency of oral and your surroundings and drug’s natural character took you by surprise. I have a feeling that phase shift at higher doses is just 4-ho taking after its daddy.

Thanks for figuring out what a strong oral dose is though.

Perhaps it is time for me to detail a little more.

Somewhere in Tihkal, Sasha hypothesizes a rule of thumb regarding the number of amine carbons / activity ratio. He believes that below 2 (e.g. DMT), MAOs hinder oral activity, and above 6, activity also decreases via another mechanism (probably simply because the molecule gets too long). The sweet spot is in between.

Almost 2 years ago, I decided to start researching this 6-carbon limit case, in particular for 4-substituted indolols and acetate ester thereof.
As for many of you, my research is highly censored by my Legislator, and although I am aware of the fact that civil disobedience can be (and has been) a powerful tool for human rights in general and scientific progress in particular, I have made the choice to go by the rules, no matter how nonsensical. This, market availability, and personal intuition led me to assay 4-AcO-DALT and 4-HO-DPT multiple times.

I had been curious about the allyl functional group in psychedelics ever since a ++++ experience on 5-MeO-DALT in 2010 (legal at the time). Yes, a +4 on 5-MeO-DALT, but a higher dose, I do not remember the exact dosage and tolerance was involved. Near the end of the new online entry on 5-MeO-DALT, Sasha makes the following interesting remark:

Another direction possible for modifying the structure would be to relocate the oxygen in indole ring over to the 4- position. 4-Methoxytryptamine is commercially available, and it should be directly substitutable for the 5-methoxytryptamine used in this synthetic process giving rise to 4-MeO-DALT. Yet further out, what about starting the 4-benzyloxytryptamine and walking the same path? The product could be easily stripped of the benzyl ether by the usual catalytic hydrogenation, giving rise to the diallyl analogue of psilocin, 4-HO-DALT. I would wager a ten dollar bet that the acetate ester of this material, 4-AcO-DALT would be in the brain within minutes of swallowing the pill.

Finally, long before AL-LAD became available on the market, I had been fascinated with this allyl-substituted lysergamide, compound #1 in Tihkal. This was the intuitive rationale behind my wish to try 4-AcO-DALT. As for 4-HO-DPT, I had always wanted to try an indol-4-ol (not ester, i.e. psilocin analog), and knew DPT by reputation (I have never tried it though, and am unlikely to do so in the foreseeable future).

It took some time to find a proper 4-AcO-DALT dosage. Eventually, somewhere in between 80 and 90 mg was established to be a strong-ish dose, and a nice, albeit disappointing buzz a day after 1 mg of 25i-NBOME (legal at the time, and wrongly assumed to be safer than it really is). This assay involved 3 subjects. More disappointing assays were done within 3 weeks in the 50 to 70 mg range, occasionally boosted by some 5-MeO-MiPT (legal at the time, and possibly degraded) and 500 µg 25i. Recall that 25i's tolerance can last 3 weeks. 4-AcO-DALT was never assayed intra-nasally.

After careful reading of the online underground research (mostly erowid and BL) regarding 4-AcO-DALT, 4-AcO-DPT, and 4-HO-DPT, I hypothesized that a double-blind test between these would make them completely indifferentiable in terms of effects. I may still think that.

50 mg of 4-HO-DPT were orally bioassayed and gave me a +1, with nice relaxation, perhaps some auditory stimulation.

A week later, the same dose was insufflated and caused a solid psychedelic buzz of no more than three hours.

A week later, the same dose orally was assayed, along with some Rhodiola rosea to test whether this confirmed in vitro MAOI was worth anything in vivo. This resulted in no effect whatsoever (sorry arctic root!).

Finally a week later, I prepared a 100 mg cap, planning to take it, and noticed there was only 58 mg left in the bag. Thinking about all this previous research, I decided to take all of it, assuming I was in for a short ride akin to 2 or 3 tabs of acid. The result was this ridiculously strong trip, and the setting not being right, it was a bad trip, which left me, to use psood0nym's words "with a few bruises to my psyche".

After this, I have put my research on 6-carbon amine tryptamines on ice, and also because I got excited about the availability of the novel lysergamides (AL-LAD in particular, which has always interested me, as mentioned above). I believe I have briefly commented on them in their respective B&D threads. Perhaps I will elaborate on them when I have time. I also have very positive things to say on micro-dosing, and if I ever find the courage to take 4-HO-DPT again, it may be in a micro-dosing range (20 mg?).


EDIT: typos

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

It was a multi day festival, Wednesday was miprocin, Thursday was lsd, Friday was ethocin+ E,
Saturday was 4-aco dmt+ 4-ho dpt and by that point even at the dose I took I had nothing but seriously impressive closed eye visuals, Sunday Psychadelics had no effect whatsoever.
This a strong lesson learned and we will not be so irresponsible with Psychadelics.
Next year maximum tripping for no more than 2 or three nights max.
Tolorance is a bitch!

 

[bloodshed344]

It was a multi day festival, Wednesday was miprocin, Thursday was lsd, Friday was ethocin+ E,
Saturday was 4-aco dmt+ 4-ho dpt and by that point even at the dose I took I had nothing but seriously impressive closed eye visuals, Sunday Psychadelics had no effect whatsoever.
This a strong lesson learned and we will not be so irresponsible with Psychadelics.
Next year maximum tripping for no more than 2 or three nights max.
Tolorance is a bitch!

The best way to do such a thing would probably be by doing different families of psychedelics each night.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

I had considered this but I thought for safety's sake that sticking mostly to Tryptamines would be the smarter choice. Ecstacy was prevelant and I was weary about mixing Phenethylamines.
But I agree, as far as effect goes better to probably mix it up.
My friends tend not to be as responsible as I am and so I'd rather have a night that didn't live up to expectations than have someone need medical care. Every time.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

I got to sample this material again (the last of what I had). I ended up taking 40mg aMT orally and about 3 hours later I insufflated a bit over 300mg 4-ho-dpt over the course of about an hour. I have had the opportunity to sample 4-ho-dpt now 3 times and honestly this is probably my very very favourite research chem. the experience I had last night was one of the very greatest psychedelic experiences of my life!
4-ho-dpt for me gives rediculously unique visuals all 3 times I've tried it which consist of pockets of translucent honeycombs that are stretched out and have a 3D depth to them which change configuration as I moved my head to left or right. The most stunning thing about the visuals however was that the translucent green honeycomb display constantly had backwards texts and barcodes constantly scrolling across it. This lasted for several hours and at several times I had to stand up and focus on the characters which were so goddamn vividly realistic. Much more detailed than the alien/Egyptian hyrogliphs I see on mushrooms.
The most impressive aspect of the trip though was the way in which 4-ho-dpt changes the perception of sound. I kept thinking that I was hearing a fly buzzing around my head but every time I turned my head I realized that it's just a ceiling fan. Somehow, 4-ho-dpt radically changes how you perceive sound. The best way I can describe is like hearing in 3D or hearing multi dimensionally. Most things just sound different (not voices) but if you listen to the same thing and turn your head to different angles the sound changes really dramatically! So naturally we put some music on and my god!! Wow!!
This stuff also has a very very powerful spiritual depth to it and I spent a big part of the trip reflecting and gaining insight to my life.
This was truly in the top 3 best experiences of my life. I wish my Vendor would heed my emails and restock a ton of this stuff. Very little compares with just how honestly awesome this material is. Without a doubt if stuck on a deserted island with only a lifetime apply of 1 chemical this would satisfy EVERYTHING I look for in a psychedelic. Just truly magnificent stuff. In not even doing it justice with these words.

 

[MagickalKat777]

My friends tend not to be as responsible as I am and so I'd rather have a night that didn't live up to expectations than have someone need medical care. Every time.

I got to sample this material again (the last of what I had). I ended up taking 40mg aMT orally and about 3 hours later I insufflated a bit over 300mg 4-ho-dpt over the course of about an hour. I have had the opportunity to sample 4-ho-dpt now 3 times and honestly this is probably my very very favourite research chem.

That was responsible? I hate to see what your definition of irresponsibility is. First time with aMT and you blow through more 4-HO-DPT than most would need for 3 ridiculously powerful trips. You're lucky that it turned out well. aMT doesn't mix with a lot of substances.

Anyway, after reading this whole thread, I think I found something that I'm going to have to get my hands on. I didn't particularly enjoy DPT's bodyload and this sounds like something that would be right up my alley. I have been curious about this one for years and always had high hopes for it. It looks like I'll be ending my 2 year abstinence some time early next year.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

That was responsible? I hate to see what your definition of irresponsibility is. First time with aMT and you blow through more 4-HO-DPT than most would need for 3 ridiculously powerful trips. You're lucky that it turned out well. aMT doesn't mix with a lot of substances.

Anyway, after reading this whole thread, I think I found something that I'm going to have to get my hands on. I didn't particularly enjoy DPT's bodyload and this sounds like something that would be right up my alley. I have been curious about this one for years and always had high hopes for it. It looks like I'll be ending my 2 year abstinence some time early next year.

I don't feel in any way that I acted irresponsibly. The aMT I took had very little effect after nearly 4 hours and this was my 3rd experiment with 4-ho-dpt at varying dosages. I had a very good feel of what 150mg does when ingested all at once and the 300 I insufflated over the course of an hour was in no way a negative experience. There were no signs of any kind of toxicity and would feel very comfortable pushing both the aMT and 4-ho-dpt to higher dosages. The aMT I have is probably severely degraded based on its apperance and effects. It's not like I was mixing Phenethylamines with aMT. I'm not sure if you have much experience with 4-ho-dpt but 100mg insufflated produced pretty mild effects. Maybe a +1. I seriously don't think 300 is outrageous for this chemical for people experienced with psychedelics even with aMT.

 

[MagickalKat777]

I don't feel in any way that I acted irresponsibly. The aMT I took had very little effect after nearly 4 hours and this was my 3rd experiment with 4-ho-dpt at varying dosages. I had a very good feel of what 150mg does when ingested all at once and the 300 I insufflated over the course of an hour was in no way a negative experience. There were no signs of any kind of toxicity and would feel very comfortable pushing both the aMT and 4-ho-dpt to higher dosages. The aMT I have is probably severely degraded based on its apperance and effects. It's not like I was mixing Phenethylamines with aMT. I'm not sure if you have much experience with 4-ho-dpt but 100mg insufflated produced pretty mild effects. Maybe a +1. I seriously don't think 300 is outrageous for this chemical for people experienced with psychedelics even with aMT.

Sounds like both of your products are seriously degraded/cut or you have a high tryptamine tolerance. Possibly both. 40mg of aMT is pretty decent for most to get a decent mild plateau and I read this whole thread and the average insufflated dose of 4-HO-DPT seems to be around 50mg for an intense experience with a 158mg oral experience being noted as extremely intense.

 

[ZFC]

Sounds like both of your products are seriously degraded/cut or you have a high tryptamine tolerance. Possibly both. 40mg of aMT is pretty decent for most to get a decent mild plateau and I read this whole thread and the average insufflated dose of 4-HO-DPT seems to be around 50mg for an intense experience with a 158mg oral experience being noted as extremely intense.

Ballz_Trippington, did you have a tolerance?

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Sounds like both of your products are seriously degraded/cut or you have a high tryptamine tolerance. Possibly both. 40mg of aMT is pretty decent for most to get a decent mild plateau and I read this whole thread and the average insufflated dose of 4-HO-DPT seems to be around 50mg for an intense experience with a 158mg oral experience being noted as extremely intense.

Don't know what to tell ya... I suspected the aMT to be degraded based on its apperance. The 4-HO-DPT was from my usual vendor who's products have always been of extremely high quality. I don't believe I have a terrible tryptamine tolorance. My usual dosage for most 4 subbed tryps is 30-40mg. But I'm also quite comfortable taking a heavy ammount of psychedelics if I wish. Once you've worked your way up to navigating through 6 hits of strong LSD, 300mg of 4-HO-DPT is nothing. I'm certainly much more careful with Phenethylamines but most tryptamine tend to be a lot safer. I honestly feel that probably the max dose for myself for 4-HO-DPT would 400-500mg I know that sounds crazy but this stuff seems so non toxic and benign. I would seriously recommend taking each 100 mg (50mg in each nostril) every 20-30 mins. I would not take more than 200 mg in a single dose. On aMT and 300mg 4-HO-DPT I never head any serious heart rate increase or sweating or headache or even any stomach discomfort. This stuff just seems like a wise teacher with some rough edges in a similar manner that LSD does (it'll make you reflect on what you may or may not want to face).
It also has some of the coolest and most unique visuals and auditory effects I've ever experienced. It's a shame it seemingly requires so much material for a full on trip. This stuff wasn't cheap.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Ballz_Trippington, did you have a tolerance?

I don't believe tolorance was an issue. I had a trial with 30 mg 4-AcO-MET 3 weeks earlier and I usually like to keep a my trials at least 2 weeks apart and usually don't like to drop more than once a month.

 

[MagickalKat777]

You are sadly mistaken if you think that tryptamines are inherently safer than phenethylamines. I fell under the same conclusion and it just isn't the case. aMT, 5-MeO-DiPT, 5-MeO-aMT, 5-MeO-MiPT, and DPT at high doses can all make most phenethylamines look like nothing in terms of toxicity. Phenethylamines are known more for cardiac stimulation but tryptamines do it too - those ones I listed specifically. The methoxys are the worst for dose/response curve and both aMT and (EDIT) DPT have some pretty nasty bodyload attached to them.

Anyway, be careful - it sounds like you're getting poor product in those two cases, remember that it can vary batch to batch quite drastically because there is little QA in these products. I have read the other reports on this thread and I know what kind of experience all of those cats have and if they say that 50mg insufflated was more than enough, I definitely believe them. You might get yourself into a rather uncomfortable place if you procure more and it happens to be stronger.

Also you said 300mg over the course of an hour... There is a possibility that you had a tolerance as soon as it kicked in. That's actually fairly common and I've found it to be very true with other 4-subs.

 

[Help?!?!]

Yeah 4-HO-DPT is a strong one that's for sure, i've used many a psyche and it absolutely rocked me to the core at 45 IM. It was some pretty pure insanity for around an hour or so until it began to calm into the beautiful experience that is 4-HO-DPT. Only wish it was more common and I had more on hand. Really such a beauty!

 

[MagickalKat777]

Yeah 4-HO-DPT is a strong one that's for sure, i've used many a psyche and it absolutely rocked me to the core at 45 IM. It was some pretty pure insanity for around an hour or so until it began to calm into the beautiful experience that is 4-HO-DPT. Only wish it was more common and I had more on hand. Really such a beauty!

How would you compare it with DPT? I wasn't fond of the DPT bodyload. It was heavy and stimulating at the same time. A very confused state of existence.

 

[Help?!?!]

Edit: Oh...yeah thats just how DPT is/can be at times, its one of the weirder simple tryps, not like MET/DMT/etc at all really I loved it though! You know me though I pretty much loved/love them all though!
I'm not one to complain about BL's unless their too....overstimulating and such as I was an addy/ritialin child since near birth and since then, well and probably before then hated all stimulants. The only "stiminng" psyche I traveled around the block with more than once was 2c-I, never even bothered with DOI as such but loveddddd DOC. Insufflated 4-HO-DPT is much calmer, maybe because it doesn't have such a grand BA that ROA or something but it just has a different flavor, if you need help getting it into solution for say, plugging or IM/IV, Psood's the man to talk to...well as per usual! As I find his knowledge far exceeds my own/the majority of users on this site as he seems to be a creative genius TBPH!

 

[MagickalKat777]

Well you and I both tend to have similar likes and dislikes when it comes to substances unless I've absolutely overdone something and fallen off my rocker

And yes... I don't know why I subjected myself to 2C-I multiple times. It should have been a clue when I got so stimulated that I was on a marathon power walk for the first 2 hours of a 20mg trip and still couldn't sit still.

Anyway, I would probably insufflate it. I kind of got used to that ROA when I was binging on mephedrone

It won't be for awhile. Tapering off my Valium comes first, then I need money, which means I need to have a job, and then I need to find it. I figure it will make itself known if its meant to be.