This is simply wonderful material!
60mg of 4-aco-dmt (oral) + 100mg 4-ho-dpt (insuffilated) produced some of the coolest closed eye visuals I have ever experienced... Very "TRON" esque grids of moving boxes of light all moving in extremely structured order. I was blown away every time I shut my eyes!
As a side note, this was at a multi-day festival and tolorence played a big roll which is why the dosage was so high.
Could you be more specific on what you took on the previous days? Without tolerance, this would be an absolutely insane dose.
I strongly suspected from the character of my first 16 mg insufflated trip with 4-ho-DPT that it possessed the potential to do what you experienced. It was a small dose, but I sensed I was getting my feet wet at the edge of an abyss. Others have said otherwise, but I clearly feel the annihilating light of DPT shining through 4-ho. From what I've read in this thread 70 mg of 4-ho-DPT taken orally will result in a light but definitely active experience. You more than doubled that dose, of a drug whose parent compound is known to change character at higher doses and vaporize egos, and you more than tripled your own first oral dose of it. You were skipping steps and you tripped in an area that made you nervous. I'm glad you recovered with just a few bruises to your psyche but I'm not surprised it happened. If you insufflated 80mg (aack!), or about half your big oral dose, I think you might experience similar. I’m thinking insufflated is still roughly double the potency of oral and your surroundings and drug’s natural character took you by surprise. I have a feeling that phase shift at higher doses is just 4-ho taking after its daddy.
Thanks for figuring out what a strong oral dose is though.
Perhaps it is time for me to detail a little more.
Somewhere in Tihkal, Sasha hypothesizes a rule of thumb regarding the number of amine carbons / activity ratio. He believes that below 2 (e.g. DMT), MAOs hinder oral activity, and above 6, activity also decreases via another mechanism (probably simply because the molecule gets too long). The sweet spot is in between.
Almost 2 years ago, I decided to start researching this 6-carbon limit case, in particular for 4-substituted indolols and acetate ester thereof.
As for many of you, my research is highly censored by my Legislator, and although I am aware of the fact that civil disobedience can be (and has been) a powerful tool for human rights in general and scientific progress in particular, I have made the choice to go by the rules, no matter how nonsensical. This, market availability, and personal intuition led me to assay 4-AcO-DALT and 4-HO-DPT multiple times.
I had been curious about the allyl functional group in psychedelics ever since a ++++ experience on 5-MeO-DALT in 2010 (legal at the time). Yes, a +4 on 5-MeO-DALT, but a higher dose, I do not remember the exact dosage and tolerance was involved. Near the end of the
new online entry on 5-MeO-DALT, Sasha makes the following interesting remark:
Another direction possible for modifying the structure would be to relocate the oxygen in indole ring over to the 4- position. 4-Methoxytryptamine is commercially available, and it should be directly substitutable for the 5-methoxytryptamine used in this synthetic process giving rise to 4-MeO-DALT. Yet further out, what about starting the 4-benzyloxytryptamine and walking the same path? The product could be easily stripped of the benzyl ether by the usual catalytic hydrogenation, giving rise to the diallyl analogue of psilocin, 4-HO-DALT. I would wager a ten dollar bet that the acetate ester of this material, 4-AcO-DALT would be in the brain within minutes of swallowing the pill.
Finally, long before AL-LAD became available on the market, I had been fascinated with this allyl-substituted lysergamide, compound #1 in Tihkal. This was the intuitive rationale behind my wish to try 4-AcO-DALT. As for 4-HO-DPT, I had always wanted to try an indol-4-ol (not ester, i.e. psilocin analog), and knew DPT by reputation (I have never tried it though, and am unlikely to do so in the foreseeable future).
It took some time to find a proper 4-AcO-DALT dosage. Eventually, somewhere in between 80 and 90 mg was established to be a strong-ish dose, and a nice, albeit disappointing buzz a day after 1 mg of 25i-NBOME (legal at the time, and wrongly assumed to be safer than it really is). This assay involved 3 subjects. More disappointing assays were done within 3 weeks in the 50 to 70 mg range, occasionally boosted by some 5-MeO-MiPT (legal at the time, and possibly degraded) and 500 µg 25i. Recall that 25i's tolerance can last 3 weeks. 4-AcO-DALT was never assayed intra-nasally.
After careful reading of the online underground research (mostly erowid and BL) regarding 4-AcO-DALT, 4-AcO-DPT, and 4-HO-DPT, I hypothesized that a double-blind test between these would make them completely indifferentiable in terms of effects. I may still think that.
50 mg of 4-HO-DPT were orally bioassayed and gave me a +1, with nice relaxation, perhaps some auditory stimulation.
A week later, the same dose was insufflated and caused a solid psychedelic buzz of no more than three hours.
A week later, the same dose orally was assayed, along with some Rhodiola rosea to test whether this confirmed in vitro MAOI was worth anything in vivo. This resulted in
no effect whatsoever (sorry arctic root!).
Finally a week later, I prepared a 100 mg cap, planning to take it, and noticed there was only 58 mg left in the bag. Thinking about all this previous research, I decided to take all of it, assuming I was in for a short ride akin to 2 or 3 tabs of acid. The result was this ridiculously strong trip, and the setting not being right, it was a bad trip, which left me, to use psood0nym's words "with a few bruises to my psyche".
After this, I have put my research on 6-carbon amine tryptamines on ice, and also because I got excited about the availability of the novel lysergamides (AL-LAD in particular, which has always interested me, as mentioned above). I believe I have briefly commented on them in their respective B&D threads. Perhaps I will elaborate on them when I have time. I also have very positive things to say on micro-dosing, and if I ever find the courage to take 4-HO-DPT again, it may be in a micro-dosing range (20 mg?).
EDIT: typos