Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-HO-DPT Thread

[Kaleida]

Zeta:

Wow, that is... rough. That's an underwhelming word but I'm pretty sure you couldn't capture that in words. I'm honestly not even sure what exactly is the right comforting sort of thing to say to that, if such a thing even exists.... I couldn't even type that sentence without starting to cry a little.

I don't want to say that I'm glad about any of it, but I am that you handled it well enough. It's not like there's anything that could have been done anyway or that this isn't happening everywhere around the world even right now sadly or that this particular event had anything to do with you at all, but nonetheless, I can certainly understand empathetically as much as one can your struggle.... Again I don't feel right thinking of it as the kind of thing one should make peace with but I do hope you can retain yours. As you said, that's life....

I'm happy to provide some potential insight and thank you for the follow-up as well. Frankly, your experience of urine discoloration makes it all but certain in my mind that you did have rhabdomyolysis. This is an extremely important piece of perspective for us to have about 4-HO-DPT and I again thank you for bringing it to our attention.

I appreciate the clarification about the antihistamine as well. I'm not very familiar with azelastine myself but it looks like it's not known to have significant anticholinergic activity, so we can probably at least cross that particular potential condtraindication off the list.

Again, I'm glad that you're feeling better now, and glad that you'll be making a separate post about it too as it'll probably reach more users that way.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

120mg good god....regular DPT, if you want to trip hard, ayuhasaca-style but don't have DPT oil freebase (that's how I learned what DPT was, it's an oil when a freebase, pretty difficult to smoke at first, but it can be done easily with whatever kind of pipe my friend had then, likely a crack pipe), 100mg oral of regular DPT is one crazy experience, the 4 or 5 substituted tryptamines always need much less

Typically all 4-HO/4-ACO are at heavy doses when one is at 40+ mg. Be careful.

 

[Xorkoth]

4-HO/AcO-DPT is less potent than most 4-subs, same deal with some of the other long chain ones like 4-HO-MALT and 4-HO-EPT. But yeah, definitely start low because some people seem to find it pretty potent, while most don't.

 

[lamanogaucha]

As Xorkoth pointed out, 4-HO-DPT and its AcO variant are less potent by weight than DPT. The same is true relative to most other 4-subs.

Considering only potency by weight, my 110mg 4-HO-DPT trip felt more or less analogous to 30mg of 4-HO-MiPT -- a good, solid dose (if the material is pure), but by no means excessive. On the other hand, my 120mg 4-HO-DPT trip felt like an overdose of 4-HO-MiPT -- 60mg or more, I would imagine.

Anyway, my future 4-HO-DPT tests will be in the range of 80-100mg. If I get bitten again, I'll discontinue use of this compound.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Good luck. Thanks for the answer. It just seemed a bit crazy to me to take as much of a 4-aco/HO substitution since the doses of those D*T compounds that work orally without using a MAOI, DPT demands a large dose, which is always...an insane trip. I loved smoking DPT freebase oil (it's got a funny colour too) at 15mg dosages, the closest I got to DMT, never got around to it and the Ayahuasca way of vomiting for hours instead of just a little like with Mescaline analogues I tried (Escaline, Allylescaline, Proscaline, have yet to try Methallylescaline....that one's a long duration one, LSD long, maybe a bit more, so I was always way cautious about it, so much I have never tried it).

I know I could extract DMT out of a summer's worth of lawnmower use from huge garbage bags of grass but that'd be a wee bit too long But smoked DPT was nuts, but short and controllable, one of my most, not negative, but surprisingly intense as hell for 6 hours was eating 125mg of DPT, oral doses are normally around 100mg, had tried 90mg and it was cool but I knew it had more potential. That was when I could find DPT for $ It's still legal up here but they all want altcoins, eh, I played BTC well enough I don't want to turn some into lesser crypto, but that's another thread...

 

[Xorkoth]

I've never seen any place not accept BTC that accepts crypto, that's odd.

 

[Sir Ron Pib]

well to recap I said "last time I tried 120mg 4HO-DPT whilst fasting. Bit shaky-juddery coming up then it blossomed and it is lovely stuff. Someone here said 120 is nice but they would prefer 130-140mg and that sounds about right and wouldn't be excessive." so I took 140mg whilst fasting and it was incredibly weak although duration extended a little. This stuff is incredibly irregular regards dose this isn't the first time a lower dose was subjectively stronger than a higher one. One trip my heart raced (and higher BP) for a bit but that was a yet lower dose so maybe that was anxiety but working out dosage - on 140mg there was no indication of elevated heart rate or anything of that nature.

 

[Working_Class]

I've read over this thread carefully last Sunday before I did my experiment and this is my contribution thus far, there will be more experiments, but take from it what you will. This was my experience.

Some of my detailed reports have been inspired by Kaleda (probably incorrect spelling). But I have been reading her trip reports on Erowid for years and finally decided to get into a little bit of science myself in the last little while. The whole process has been very cathartic.

73 mg 4-HO-DPT w vitals to the 3rd hour

I've been saving this for a special occasion. When my health is in order and my set and setting are appropriate. It is about 7:40 in the morning Sunday October 6th 2019, and I am about to ingest 73 mg of 4-HO-DPT on a completely empty stomach. Girlfriend is going to work for the day and she kind...

www.bluelight.org

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Interesting. I have a bunch of psys in my safe and autumn is making me feel down, it used to be the opposite, I used to love autumn when I was 18-25, when it's still warm enough to hang out around here, which isn't every year. This little mountain in my town is calling me though, I'll either have 4-ho-dpt or 4-ho-det, failing my ability to find shrooms (my best shroom trips were all during october way back when I was a young lil' psychonaut with my old friends, bandmates etc.). I haven't tripped since august 2018 (ETH-LAD 150ug). The last time I had a tryptamine I got into full ego dissolution, looking at myself in the mirror I felt like I looked like a thumb on some extremely large hand and it was a too large dose of 5-meo-mipt (13.5mg). I had made 5mg capsules but I found them weak...and was a bit wreckless, the physical stimulation from 5-meo-mipt is way too extreme, I think something close to psilocin like this should work great, I feel like I'm in the zone where no bad tripping is possible, I can feel luck sometimes, I'll tell y'all about it, likely will be next friday, forecast is 10c during the evening...which is warm enough to hang out on top of a small mount, I'll have a campfire maybe and maybe if my s/o isn't working her ass off in her underfunded hospital, having her around would be better although I never feared tripping alone.

 

[Xorkoth]

Cool, hope you have a nice trip. My girl is away for a month or so and I'm planning to take DOPr sometime within that month, in a full dose. I feel like that would be a good drug to be alone with.

 

[Sir Ron Pib]

I decided to give vaporized 4-HO-DPT another shot. I had previously used sodium carbonate to convert some to freebase and ended up with a gray-green glob of it that turned hard when it dried. Vaporizing that out of an oil burner worked, but had a horrible chemical taste and left a lot of residue behind. I suspected that there was a lot of unreacted 4-HO-DPT fumarate in it, so I chopped it up and used heptane to recrystallize it. The yield was pretty small, but I ended up with some some nice sparkly crystalline 4-HO-DPT freebase. It's a gritty powder, not oily or waxy like freebase DPT and DMT.

I put about 8mg into an oil burner to test it. It melted and vaporized easily and didn't have a noticeable taste. I smoked no more than half of what I put in the pipe, but experienced some surprisingly strong effects. Within seconds, my vision started warping and colors started shifting. The effects do seem different vaporized compared to snorted or oral. The body load was a bit too much. I felt really shaky and had some nausea. 4-HO-DPT already gives me uncomfortable body load normally, but the sudden onset made it worse. It wasn't too bad though because the effects were so short-lived.

Right I tried a tiny bit vaped 5-6mg just reread and see you had effects slightly higher but didn't smoke it all; I would have expected 50mg or so to be effective so was very curious about this - I got no effects at all but have just noted you used FB (not sure how much more potent that would be and I am not making a freebase ever again - it is just to risky

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

So i think this is the most unusual tryptamine ive ever experienced...
It seems to have its most potent effects orally with (in my experience only!!!!!) About 25mg oral being a light dose and 200mg being an sort of equivalent to 5 hits of acid type of "all in" trip.
But snoting this stuff has no nasal burn whatsoever but it it is much lighter in terms of intensity intranasallly than orally mg to mg....that is 100mg oral for me is completely tripping experience , whereas 100mg intranasal is a very light experience.....i tried 100mg via rectal administration tonight and only got a slight hint of something...i am curious as to why this would be more potent via oral vs nasal or rectal????

 

[Pfafffed]

I have no idea. There seem to be conflicting accounts based on which ROAs are active with this and its acetylated sibling. Dosages vary wildly.

 

[InPlantsWeTrust]

I just wanted to share this incident on here as I had. Strange reaction at the end of my last experience with this compound: “ I want to start by saying I am very experienced with tryptamines and phenyethlamines and have research most the available 4 substituted tryptamines multiple times. I am a regular and sometimes daily user of kratom and have used it at the tail end of many trips.

This time I decided to insluffate 60mg of 4-HO-DPT (have doses up to 110mg before without issue) and had a beautiful experience with flowing visuals etc. At the end of the experience I decided to dose 3g of a Red Maeng da kratom and went to bed.

What proceeded was a splitting headache, nausea and vomitting for over half the following day.

Now I am thinking I could have not drank enough water for that dose of either or the take away burger I had the previous day didn't agree with me.

I know I am a sample size of one and I have taken kratom after a lower dose (40mg) of this compound Without issue.

The reason I am posting it here is I read somewhere that DPT, EPT, MPT versions of the four subs may have some SSRI activity which kratom is known for but I cannot find a source. Please if anyone knowns more correct me.

I am fully aware mixing RCs with natural herbs that aren't that well studied along RCs of the same carries risk. What I am trying to ascertain is if there could be a much higher risk with these types of tryptamines Vs traditional ones. I have combined with mushrooms, mescaline, acid, 2C-x .... Without feeling like that. For harm reduction it would be good find out more to share across the community.

I will try again once I understand more about the method of action for each substance to rule out of it was isolated.

Appreciate there are so many variables here but I am really reaching out to see if anyone has had something similar or has sources etc.”

 

[Xorkoth]

Interesting, thanks for posting. I have only tried 4-HO-DPT a few times but I have definitely combined kratom with it. I have actually never heard of kratom having SSRI effects and I have also combined it with serotonin releasers like AMT, MDMA, etc, and never had any issues. I wonder if it was just coincidence and there was some other reason for your effects (like some brief illness, or something you ate)? I am also curious as to whether anyone else has experienced something similar... if there is some potential interaction it would be good to know.

 

[InPlantsWeTrust]

Interesting, thanks for posting. I have only tried 4-HO-DPT a few times but I have definitely combined kratom with it. I have actually never heard of kratom having SSRI effects and I have also combined it with serotonin releasers like AMT, MDMA, etc, and never had any issues. I wonder if it was just coincidence and there was some other reason for your effects (like some brief illness, or something you ate)? I am also curious as to whether anyone else has experienced something similar... if there is some potential interaction it would be good to know.

This was where I saw a reference to it - Potential for Kratom as a Antidepressant . I will be experimenting again carefully as like you I have taken it with Kratom before without issue, it was just a horrible experience. Really hot/flushed with an ice pick headache and vomiting. I haven’t drank in two years and live pretty clean apart from the occasional take away burger Lol.

 

[Xorkoth]

Damn that sounds shitty. I once combined 4-FA and 4-HO-MET, which I had combined before, and after a while I became nauseous and got a most horrific gut pain I have ever experienced, I almost called 911 it got so bad. I was laying in bed screaming at one point, sweating buckets, a cold sweat, trying to find a position that hurt less, to no avail. Then after some hours, it got better and I fell asleep and felt fine the next day. Before it got horrible, it was extremely euphoric and great, but I never tried the combo again because it was so bad that time. No idea why it happened.

 

[Working_Class]

I've had a strange reaction to mixing a fairly medium dose of 4-HO-MET with etizolam and MDMA.

It seemed like such an incredibly strong dose as I'd only ever gone to ~17 mg initially with little 5 mg booster a few hrs in, and this occasion I took 25 mg and dosed a friend with 21 mg. The beginning was pretty cool, but it continued to develop for a few hours and at about the 3rd hour of peaking hard, we started to slowly introduce etizolam at about 1 mg / Hr to take the edge off. That's not really the point of this story but I'm getting there.

It was of note that the etizolam took the visuals away immediately. No more shimmer or shine, just more of a body high with some slight psychedelia. We watched "Ready Player One" and it was pretty fucking epic haha. Anyway the part that really lines up with the experience that InPlantsWeTrust had was when we started doing MDMA because we sobered up too much from the etizolam haha. We did something like 200 - 300 mg each and fell asleep on the kitchen floor cooking sausages. I woke up to a smoking pan about an hr after we decided we each needed to lay on the floor for "just a second". Passed out cold and anyway, burned the food, re-made it after tossing the burned food. Went to bed after eating and I woke up still so high, and I've had plenty of acid nights and M nights and this M at the tail end of the tryptamine just hung around inside my system forever.

I took 1G of Kratom the next day to take the hangover down and I was SO fucking high. It was the most clear headed I had felt in months oddly enough, but it was like the chemicals I was taking hit 5X harder and lasted 3X longer. I had a serious depressed episode for about 10 days after and just felt depleted beyond many of my past experiences with any single substance on their own, it made me think perhaps the tryptamines have a slight sort of MAOI effect, or as you fellas had mentioned perhaps some sort of SSRI activity. Also made me realize that the pattern of drug use we followed that night was unwise. I did want to push the 4-HO-MET experience a little further, but I should have had my follow up drugs pre dosed and planned to keep inside a safe limit. There is parts of the night that are fuzzy and I can't remember very well, and my friend started talking to people that weren't there at one point on a walk we went on. It definitely turned me off to getting high for a while. And I feel almost perma-sensitized to stimulants, but I think that has a lot to do with the last 2 years of intermittent etizolam use and perhaps memantine and ketamine use.

I usually take etizolam at the tail end of a heavy tryptamine experience, but this time was a little different. Just very depleting, heavy experience but the dose was higher than usual and some extra drugs were in the mix. Interesting to hear it (the purported some how SSRI or MAOI activity) from somewhere else too though, albeit with some differences in compound, dose and overall drug mix and duration. The next day Kratom though really was something else, it had been about 20 hrs after the tryptamine administration.

Microdosing on tryptamines is way different, but they do seem to burn me out way worse than good old LSD microdoses

 

[InPlantsWeTrust]

It seems to be mostly DPT, this article shared to me on Reddit and I quote them suggests:

Dimethyltryptamine and other hallucinogenic tryptamines exhibit substrate behavior at the serotonin uptake transporter and the vesicle monoamine transporter - PubMed

N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is a potent plant hallucinogen that has also been found in human tissues. When ingested, DMT and related N,N-dialkyltryptamines produce an intense hallucinogenic state. Behavioral effects are mediated through various neurochemical mechanisms including activity at...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Our results show that DMT, MIPT, DPT, and DIPT inhibit [(3)H]5-HT transport at the SERT with K ( I ) values of 4.00 +/- 0.70, 8.88 +/- 4.7, 0.594 +/- 0.12, and 2.32 +/- 0.46 microM, respectively.

"So DPT is several fold stronger as a sert reuptake inhibitor then DMT"

So we can safely assume blanket assume to play it safe anything that ends in PT, IPT can. And where Kratom is involved it has so many alks in it we really are in uncharted territory with these substances. It also seems dose dependant. We are just toying with the idea. It's all needs proper study and statistical significance but we know we are still a long way off that so best to play it safe and limit what we combine.

 

[InPlantsWeTrust]

I've had a strange reaction to mixing a fairly medium dose of 4-HO-MET with etizolam and MDMA.

It seemed like such an incredibly strong dose as I'd only ever gone to ~17 mg initially with little 5 mg booster a few hrs in, and this occasion I took 25 mg and dosed a friend with 21 mg. The beginning was pretty cool, but it continued to develop for a few hours and at about the 3rd hour of peaking hard, we started to slowly introduce etizolam at about 1 mg / Hr to take the edge off. That's not really the point of this story but I'm getting there.

It was of note that the etizolam took the visuals away immediately. No more shimmer or shine, just more of a body high with some slight psychedelia. We watched "Ready Player One" and it was pretty fucking epic haha. Anyway the part that really lines up with the experience that InPlantsWeTrust had was when we started doing MDMA because we sobered up too much from the etizolam haha. We did something like 200 - 300 mg each and fell asleep on the kitchen floor cooking sausages. I woke up to a smoking pan about an hr after we decided we each needed to lay on the floor for "just a second". Passed out cold and anyway, burned the food, re-made it after tossing the burned food. Went to bed after eating and I woke up still so high, and I've had plenty of acid nights and M nights and this M at the tail end of the tryptamine just hung around inside my system forever.

I took 1G of Kratom the next day to take the hangover down and I was SO fucking high. It was the most clear headed I had felt in months oddly enough, but it was like the chemicals I was taking hit 5X harder and lasted 3X longer. I had a serious depressed episode for about 10 days after and just felt depleted beyond many of my past experiences with any single substance on their own, it made me think perhaps the tryptamines have a slight sort of MAOI effect, or as you fellas had mentioned perhaps some sort of SSRI activity. Also made me realize that the pattern of drug use we followed that night was unwise. I did want to push the 4-HO-MET experience a little further, but I should have had my follow up drugs pre dosed and planned to keep inside a safe limit. There is parts of the night that are fuzzy and I can't remember very well, and my friend started talking to people that weren't there at one point on a walk we went on. It definitely turned me off to getting high for a while. And I feel almost perma-sensitized to stimulants, but I think that has a lot to do with the last 2 years of intermittent etizolam use and perhaps memantine and ketamine use.

I usually take etizolam at the tail end of a heavy tryptamine experience, but this time was a little different. Just very depleting, heavy experience but the dose was higher than usual and some extra drugs were in the mix. Interesting to hear it (the purported some how SSRI or MAOI activity) from somewhere else too though, albeit with some differences in compound, dose and overall drug mix and duration. The next day Kratom though really was something else, it had been about 20 hrs after the tryptamine administration.

Microdosing on tryptamines is way different, but they do seem to burn me out way worse than good old LSD microdose

I've had a strange reaction to mixing a fairly medium dose of 4-HO-MET with etizolam and MDMA.

It seemed like such an incredibly strong dose as I'd only ever gone to ~17 mg initially with little 5 mg booster a few hrs in, and this occasion I took 25 mg and dosed a friend with 21 mg. The beginning was pretty cool, but it continued to develop for a few hours and at about the 3rd hour of peaking hard, we started to slowly introduce etizolam at about 1 mg / Hr to take the edge off. That's not really the point of this story but I'm getting there.

It was of note that the etizolam took the visuals away immediately. No more shimmer or shine, just more of a body high with some slight psychedelia. We watched "Ready Player One" and it was pretty fucking epic haha. Anyway the part that really lines up with the experience that InPlantsWeTrust had was when we started doing MDMA because we sobered up too much from the etizolam haha. We did something like 200 - 300 mg each and fell asleep on the kitchen floor cooking sausages. I woke up to a smoking pan about an hr after we decided we each needed to lay on the floor for "just a second". Passed out cold and anyway, burned the food, re-made it after tossing the burned food. Went to bed after eating and I woke up still so high, and I've had plenty of acid nights and M nights and this M at the tail end of the tryptamine just hung around inside my system forever.

I took 1G of Kratom the next day to take the hangover down and I was SO fucking high. It was the most clear headed I had felt in months oddly enough, but it was like the chemicals I was taking hit 5X harder and lasted 3X longer. I had a serious depressed episode for about 10 days after and just felt depleted beyond many of my past experiences with any single substance on their own, it made me think perhaps the tryptamines have a slight sort of MAOI effect, or as you fellas had mentioned perhaps some sort of SSRI activity. Also made me realize that the pattern of drug use we followed that night was unwise. I did want to push the 4-HO-MET experience a little further, but I should have had my follow up drugs pre dosed and planned to keep inside a safe limit. There is parts of the night that are fuzzy and I can't remember very well, and my friend started talking to people that weren't there at one point on a walk we went on. It definitely turned me off to getting high for a while. And I feel almost perma-sensitized to stimulants, but I think that has a lot to do with the last 2 years of intermittent etizolam use and perhaps memantine and ketamine use.

I usually take etizolam at the tail end of a heavy tryptamine experience, but this time was a little different. Just very depleting, heavy experience but the dose was higher than usual and some extra drugs were in the mix. Interesting to hear it (the purported some how SSRI or MAOI activity) from somewhere else too though, albeit with some differences in compound, dose and overall drug mix and duration. The next day Kratom though really was something else, it had been about 20 hrs after the tryptamine administration.

Microdosing on tryptamines is way different, but they do seem to burn me out way worse than good old LSD microdoses

Thank you for contributing this. I would always be careful taming kratom on or close to MDMA use. Many will say they have been fine but I keep seeing more and more about kratoms SSRI "like" effects. It cured my depression and now I don't need it daily which to me made it more effective than an SSRI.