The Big & Dandy 25I-NBOMe Thread

[ephrem]

I've also found psychs to synergize in unreal ways compared to the total dose of either 1 chem by itself.

Last friday I dropped 10 mg of 2C-E but found it too mild. Insufflated 1 mg of 25I-nBOME but I fear it's inactive. Decided to insufflate 2 mgs 25C-nBOME some time later and had an unexpected +++ trip without much bodyload and beautiful visuals without thought.

This was the first time I combined psychs from the same family like this. It's certainly an avenue to explore further.

 

[Solipsis]

I've also found psychs to synergize in unreal ways compared to the total dose of either 1 chem by itself.

Some of them do in my experience, but others can bounce off one another as if they both want to tell a story in a different way, a different language or style. It's even completely possible for some combinations to synergize well on one occasion and be bad together at other times. It may be dose and setting dependent but I also feel like it's best when one compound is 'leading' and the other 'following'. Feels better if one serves the role as a primer, so that there is primary/secondary action and not mixed action. Just my personal suggestion only of course.

I feel like it helps if you combine two phenethylamines like 25I and mescaline instead of involving a tryptamine. I mean you certainly can but then I'd make it clear which one is the basis, probably the longest lasting one.

Then again psychedelics like DMT are among the shortest lasting by far but DMT is in most occasions the leading compound, its action overwhelming a significant part those of other drugs.

 

[psood0nym]

^In my experience the best combos are two very different psychedelics. Examples include aMT and a powerful tryptamine like DPT or 4-ho-DMT (with aMT being very different from each because it's very slow and smooth in a addition to being pharmacologically distinct as a monoamine releaser), or mescaline cacti and ayahuasca (light and heavy). Though, the "light and heavy" idea has its limits, as both aMT and IM DMT (combining aMT with ayahuasca's MAOI is potentially deadly) and cacti and IM DMT resulted in about 30 minutes of tense IM DMT effects and little harmony. IM DMT is just too quick and insistent. I typically take ayahuasca in gelcaps after evaporating the mimosa tea into powder. This results in a much slower and smoother version of the ayahuasca liquid brew (somewhere between it and mushrooms), and seems to make it harmonize much more effectively with cacti, as the "rhythm" of each is different from the other but not too different. I don't think I've had a single trip combining more than two psychedelics that wasn't a little generic and "discordant."

For me tripping on numerous psychedelics at the same time is like trying to receive and process numerous signals -- starts to sound like white noise -- whereas the combination of just two contrasting psychedelics is like a baritone and a soprano duet. Like in song, I've found this approach to combination to usually work best (but only within the 5-HT psychedelic class of compounds -- when I add empathogens or stimulants or dissociatives it's a different game altogether). The idea of trying to fill out 5HT receptor subtypes hasn't seemed to work for me, at least not consistently. In fact, if I somehow matched LSD's profile through a combination it wouldn't be particularly profound, as I've never found LSD to be much more than just great fun by itself (for me it's not even remotely the pinnacle of psychedelics as many suggest, a status I think owes in large part to its historical role and the mythic qualities that arose from it, which then in turn often leads to an experience-enhancing expectancy bias in the user). There's clearly a lot of different experiences and opinions on the matter, so I guess people will just have to figure it out for themselves. I will say, though, that I've been at this for 15 years and have done a lot of combos (and more importantly, repeated them, and found the same thing to hold true).

I doubt I'll combine any 25-X chemical with other psychedelics. As beautiful as they are on their own, they're not super distinct in a way that will shine out in combination for me like the qualities of DMT, aMT, or DPT. What makes them distinct for me is their lucidity, but as soon as I'd bring in a tryptamine or other phen that would be lost. I think I'll probably have better luck looking to whole different classes of drugs like dissociatives or empathogens for combos. I've already tried 25C and ketamine, and it was quite nice.

 

[Onandoff]

I currently have a sample of some impure 25I-NBOMe cut with 40-60% of dextrose. I plan to dose sublingually. Going to have 10mg dissolved in 10ml of water and use a 1ml glass dropper. I think ethanol may work better for this but I don't haev access to it. How much I should I be trying for my first dose? About 2ml since the purity is about 20-40%? I have tried 2-ce couple of times before with some overwhelming results due to some inaccurate measuring. I have not tried LSD or other psychedlics of the same family.
Any input is appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[PippUK]

Greetings Onandoff. These are potent materials as I'm sure you know, so be very cautious with what you have. How did you come by the 40-60% purity figure? Cutting a substance like this one is extremely unhelpful/dangerous. If you must use it, you'd best aim low. I don't know what the tolerance profile is for it, but I'd suspect you'd need to wait some days plus to have a clean canvas again.
With your max estimate of 60% purity - your 1ml could conceivably deliver 600mcg, which is on the higher side of the usual dosages reported. Or, perhaps 60% purity is an underestimate, and you could be in a sticky place. The dose/response curve is unknown too.
Whoever cut your sample was unwise. It is likely unevenly distributed in the mix.
Sounds like you might be better encountering some of the more established psychedelics, ones with more predictable profiles (mostly!).
You might consider 2CE again, with more careful dosing. You already have some feel of it, so get your setting just right, along with the right dose and company. Other materials I would recommend are 4AcO-DMT and 2CB. Many people have used them and the pattern of their effects is well known.
If you are determined to use your 25I-NBOMe. take care. I will be trying this substance too in the future and am approaching with caution.
Peace - Pipp

 

[Onandoff]

Thanks for the reply pipp. Ya I keep in close contact with my vendor dude and he told me that his producer was worried about customer's health and 40-60% of dextrose was mixed with it to make it lighter. I guessthis could be even more dangerous due to the possibility of unevenly distributed 25I nbome. And yes I have no way to find out how pure this is. I'll defo. be careful with this one. All I know is that it has 40-60% dextrose is mixed in it. I'll be doing more research and figure out the exact purity before experimenting.
Thanks.

 

[tregar]

And don't worry, only trip once a month or even longer now as I find the combination psychedelic experience very special and sacred, medicine for the soul, body and mind. I treat it with very high reverance. "Aspirin" is a drug but mescaline or nbome is a sacred medicine.

As far as foaf's experiments are concerned, 250mg of mescaline hcl + 375ug of HPBCD complexed 25i completely equates to 200ug of acid in every way, except there is less anxiety during the comeup as compared to acid (perhaps due to lack of 5-HT5 agonism), it feels more pleasurable, has a welcome aesthetic component that acid for the most part lacks, and is more visual than acid as well as more "audial", so in other words, if you find acid too expensive or hard to find, etc. it's the perfect replacement in dreams. Take mescaline 1st in broken up doses during the 1st two hours, then take the nbome, it's the best trips we've ever experienced bar none.

I've tried nbome on it's own many times before combining with mescaline, and while it is "quite nice" all on it's own (about 75% just like acid)....it becomes 110% when combined with even smallish dose of mescaline. A by-product of this, is that it also allows you to stretch your rare mescaline doses further. you no longer need 500mg of mescaline for a far out trip, but the combo can do the same thing.

5-HT1A & 5-HT1E agonism provided by actual acid as well as provided by actual mescaline not only amplifies and modulates 5-HT2 agonism, it also inhibits "serotonin firing"...and imho provides incredible access to archaic visual imagery, mystic and spiritual insights, etc. etc. 5-HT1 agonism (which nbome's lack) should not be ignored imho as it contributes a very relaxed state to the trip, plus spiritual and mystical mind manifesting state. It is difficult to understand until you actually try the nbome on it's own at all different doses, THEN add in even a small dose of mescaline, big time change. Don't take my word on 5-HT1 agonism, check out all the comments by Nichols on this unique receptor that is located all over the brain, see all of Nichol's papers at Heffter.org (HRI review 1 and 2 papers). God Created man not only as a "physical being" but also a "spiritual being", so it's important to take a psychedelic which is worthy of both these.

LSD's and mescaline's dual effect on 5-HT2 (stimulatory) and 5-HT1 (inhibitory) can explain how it may appear as an antagonist because it can modulate its own effect...this is exactly what happens when mescaline meets nbome.

 

[Solipsis]

Thanks for the reply pipp. Ya I keep in close contact with my vendor dude and he told me that his producer was worried about customer's health and 40-60% of dextrose was mixed with it to make it lighter. I guessthis could be even more dangerous due to the possibility of unevenly distributed 25I nbome. And yes I have no way to find out how pure this is. I'll defo. be careful with this one. All I know is that it has 40-60% dextrose is mixed in it. I'll be doing more research and figure out the exact purity before experimenting.
Thanks.

Make a liquid solution of it, in something like vodka. But try to make it a concentration that allows you to insufflate the dose. There is more information about that in the previous 25C-NBOMe thread. Or maybe someone here will come help you with it. You need a syringe without the needle for this, a small one that
has a max volume of 1 ml, and is lined so that you are able to squirt 0.1 ml exactly, up your nose.
The dissolving will help with making sure that everything is mixed properly, and liquid insufflation is supossed to be an effective method, especially practical if you figure out the volume a nasal spray device squirts out (you can measure this by spraying into your empty syringe barrel. No plunger, but WITH stopper or needle on it to keep it in.

Oh hey Pipp, so lovely to see you - I will send you an email, a casual one about how things are going with you and whats up with me, written down as a to do for tormorrow. Right now gotta go get some sleep.

 

[Onandoff]

Thanks. Yes I'm going to make a liquid solution(either water or vodka). I just don't want to get crazy body load I have experienced with 2ce past couple of times. It was just too ridiculous how much nausea I got from the 2ce Thought I was careful dosing with my mg scale but I guess not.
Like I posted earlier I think my glass dropper with calibrated marks will work fine. (1ml max divided into .25ml marks). Just wanna be clear with my vendor how exact pure this stuff is before dosing. 40-60% dextrose in it just not so specific of a description for me to consume this yet.

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

Thanks. Yes I'm going to make a liquid solution(either water or vodka). I just don't want to get crazy body load I have experienced with 2ce past couple of times. It was just too ridiculous how much nausea I got from the 2ce Thought I was careful dosing with my mg scale but I guess not.
Like I posted earlier I think my glass dropper with calibrated marks will work fine. (1ml max divided into .25ml marks). Just wanna be clear with my vendor how exact pure this stuff is before dosing. 40-60% dextrose in it just not so specific of a description for me to consume this yet.

I get a lot of body load myself from 2c-e. Really interferes with my enjoyment of the experience. Please report back on any body load experiences with this substance.

 

[jason7]

Tregar, I've been reading your posts. Very informative. In regard to mixing with mescaline, how about mixing with 2C-I or 2C-E instead? Mescaline is not easy to come by and ridiculously lacking in potency. maybe they don't have the missing effect required to balance it, I don't know.

Another thing I wanted to discuss is the fact that HPBCD is practically impossible to source. I recently was doing some research with 2C-E and to make it more soluble I converted it from the HCL to the monobasic phosphate salt. That made it a lot more soluble and also reduced nasal burn to a slight annoyance. My thinking is that maybe if I convert 25I-NBOMe HCL to the phosphate it might solve the low solubility/absorption problem. Another idea I had is to make small tablets like Lucy and then coat them with an enteric substance so that it won't be attacked by enzymes in the stomach. Might prolong the comeup time some but it still should work. I read a post about a person making enteric coated elemi oil doses and it worked perfectly. Normally, elemi oil is inactivated in the stomach. Maybe you could just inject it into an enteric coated fish oil capsule or something.

This could be a very popular compound if we can get around the dosing problems. The lack of serious body load makes it a big improvement over the 2C-X's, which I find just too unpleasant to want to repeat. Making it orally effective would probably be the biggest advancement. The HPBCD is an ideal substance for sublingual administration, just that there's no easy way to obtain it and then after you complex it you have to freeze it to store it for more than a few months.

I just got 600 mg of it so I'll be doing some research in this regard over the next while. I also thought of a good name for it, Dream. I got it from a movie I saw a long time ago with Daniel Baldwin in it. It was about a drug cartel that was selling a designer drug called Crystal Dream. 25I-NBOMe is kind of a dream psychedelic. It's about as perfect as you can get without actually being LSD itself.

 

[tregar]

Thanks for the kind words Jason. Mixing it with 2c-i or 2c-e would not work the same because neither of those synthetic psychedelics hit the 5-HT1 receptors, 2c-e only very very very lightly hits the 5-HT1 receptors, so it won't help much. What we are lacking with the nbome is only that it needs something to go along with it that hits the 5-HT1A and 5-HT1E receptors. By studying Ray's receptor data paper you can find some other substances that may do that as well as mescaline, I know of a couple others. Mescaline comes from Cactus that are New World Psychedelics. Is it really that rare in Europe? I've always been curious. Good luck with your research.

These receptors have been shown to lower blood pressure, stimulate & modulate 5-HT2 receptors, decrease anxiety, increase serenity, release dopamine from many important areas of the brain, inhibit the firing of serotonin while still allowing serotonin-look alike moelcules (such as mescaline, etc.) to stimulate them. IMHO They add a very relaxing contemplative meditative state that is lacking with nbome alone, change the visual imagery, expand the visual field 10 fold, link one to all of collective consiousness, help plug one into some higher mystical spiritual state, all very mysterious.

Don't forget that 5-HT2 agonism stimulates blood pressure slightly, so a little bit of "lowering blood pressure" from 5-HT1 could not be a bad thing at all.

I don't have permission to attach pdf files to posts, but Ray's paper is somewhere on the net, i've printed it out before.

 

[jason7]

But isn't the whole idea of NBOMe to avoid the body load of compounds like mescaline? Why go back to the days of body load when the future is here and its name is I-BOM (in honor of Steve Jobs). It's the smooth ride to paradise, and hopefully no groin contraction like with LSD. I don't like the ergot type effects of LSD. Your nads take some punishment. It also has the drawback of being a CNS stimulant. Staying up all night isn't all that much fun and neither is urinary retention. I think I-BOM will be an improvement over LSD. I don't mind if a couple minor aspects of the LSD effect are missing. I just want to be able to trip balls, if you will, and not contracted ones either. Tripping balls with no nausea and other unpleasant side effects will be the next level. Ralf Heim is the modern version of Albert Hoffman. He is the father of the I-BOM.

 

[tregar]

Don't worry, when you take 250mg of mescaline hcl divided into three 75mg doses (take 75mg every 1/2 hour), there is no body load at all....there is about 10 minutes of very faint nausea feeling that quickly goes away, we have done this 6 times now (6 trips of combination mescaline + nbome) and never did either one of us throw up ever...the female has a very sensitive stomach and even she did not complain....10 minutes of very faint queasy ness is a very small price to pay to enter the most beautiful psychedelic experience of your life. By breaking up mescaline doses, you cause much less stomach irritation, after the 10 minute feeling of heavy stomach is experienced approximately 30 minutes after your last mescaline dose, there are no physical side effects after that. The whole experience is side effect free and zero body load, there is very slight increase in pulse for about 1.5 hour after you take the nbome, but that goes away after 1 to 1.5 hour in the beginning as stated. I would rather take this combination every time as compared to acid, it's that good. I'll post a link later to Ray's paper so you can study the receptor chart for other compounds with 5-HT1 activity at the forefront if you want. If a female can take 250mg of mescaline hcl month after month without even throwing up or coming close to it, then I'm sure you could too, so no worries my friend. The hard part would be looking for it and extracting it. Extraction is easy but I have no idea how hard it is to locate the cactus you are after in The European Nations. It grows all over the place here.

 

[Onandoff]

Thanks. Yes I'm going to make a liquid solution(either water or vodka). I just don't want to get crazy body load I have experienced with 2ce past couple of times. It was just too ridiculous how much nausea I got from the 2ce Thought I was careful dosing with my mg scale but I guess not.
Like I posted earlier I think my glass dropper with calibrated marks will work fine. (1ml max divided into .25ml marks). Just wanna be clear with my vendor how exact pure this stuff is before dosing. 40-60% dextrose in it just not so specific of a description for me to consume this yet.

Hmm... just found out what I have is 25B-NBOMe not 25I.
How does 25B differ from 25I or 25C?
Any info is appreciated.

 

[psood0nym]

Hmm... just found out what I have is 25B-NBOMe not 25I.
How does 25B differ from 25I or 25C?
Any info is appreciated.

Be extremely careful with it. Erny reported one person who used 25B went to the hospital and stopped breathing.

 

[Onandoff]

Wow I see.
I did hear people talking about more vasoconstriction with this compound. Hmm..
That sounds scary . Might just flush it lol.

 

[jason7]

There's not much info available on it. I did a search myself because it had a lower price than the 25I. The post mentioned, by Erny, does mention vasoconstriction.

Bromo Dragonfly causes a lot of vasoconstriction too so maybe the Bromine increases this effect. As long as you keep the dose low it should be safe though. I hope you didn't get a large amount of it. It'll probably be fine, just that the others would be preferable next time. I think it's only the 25I that has the strong empathogenic effects. I haven't read that about 25C. So MDMA fans would likely prefer that one. From what I've read, 25C is more of a straight hallucinogen. 25B is probably somewhere between the two.

 

[Onandoff]

Interesting..
Will probably give it a go once. This 25b is only 40-60% pure anyway. The rest is dextrose so it is light.
I will make a liquid solution out of it and do a accurate dosing.
Thanks for the info Jason.

 

[tregar]

Ray's paper for those who have asked:

hxxp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2814854/pdf/pone.0009019.pdf

With nasal application, it's true you come up very fast and there is often some anxiety due to the rapid comeup, and the peak occurs sooner, held under tongue, it is all still just as strong, but there is a more gradual build-up to the peak which is then longer and more drawn out. And yes, cyclodextrins even enhance nasal application.

I have a few new things to add, we have found that simply holding the HPBCD-complexed paper under tongue for as little as 10 minutes does the trick very well....20 minutes is not needed.

As soon as your whole tongue goes numb you know it is all dissolved, this happens with us in about 5 minutes, but we hold it under tongue for 10 minutes anyways. The cyclodextrin complexed stuff works really fast. The tongue becomes so numb that even for 10 minutes afterwards you can barely taste anything you try to eat.

And I take back my statement about higher doses of nbome with mescaline necessarily causing more analysis or electric type energy....the time I had experienced that "type of trip" was when I had taken the combination in the morning, before my body was warmed up...the trips are meant to be taken at night, I've never gotten the over-analyzing or electric type feeling if trips are done at night,

Last trip report, as ran out of mescaline for a while:

for example, last night with 250mg of mescaline hcl + 400ug (micrograms) of HPBCD complexed 25i under tongue caused the best trip yet..with eyes closed, I saw for a good hour during the peak of both substances never-ending neon visuals and visions of immense beauty, incredible detail, remarkable precision with not a blimish anywhere, archetypical images of exact brilliance and construction, artwork, historical images of all types, architectural structures, spinning geometrics all super neon with every color represented.....it was just mind-blowing, the whole time listening to music that sounded the whole time so out of this world that I wanted to cry it was all so beautiful, all things were made of more things inside of them, and the process just kept going on and on forever, super highly visual with eyes closed....yet there was no "over-analyzing" or any type of "electric type feelings" that acid would normally give you, it was very laid back and very very peaceful....immensely pleasurable the whole time. I had no idea it was possible to see things with eyes closed of such remarkable detail in every way that I literally had my mouth open the whole time in shock, it was like peering into a universe of your higher self that you are not supposed to see. I was shown artwork that I thought never existed, it was like "here look at this, check out what I can show you, I bet you've never seen anything like this ever before", and it was so true, sp said the same, everytime she closed her eyes, she could not believe the impossible imagery that she was being shown. I saw stone artwork that looked like it was chisled by the hand of God, it had impossibly perfect round features and swirls with blinding brilliance, still can't get over it. This is an artist/creative person's dream come true.

have worked with the combination enough times allready to have learned that each psychedelic trip has a "theme" to it, there are lessons to be learned and teaching taking place, there is a definite guide the whole time, I never got that with acid much at all, but this combination trip gives me direct teaching and things that it wants to show me each time, nothing ever repeats, every trip is very different...it's not just pretty visuals like acid would have you see, but actual visions with a guide to teach you.

If I had to compare the trip with acid, I would say it was equal to about 250ug of acid in visual quality, yet even still more visual, yet not an ounce of anxiety the whole time, it doesn't get any better than this imho.