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Opioids Substituting loperamide for methadone

Speed King said:
Just a few questions.

Have you been abusing your methadone?

I am trying to figure out why your family is up your ass about it, besides possibly cost of maintaining your methadone.

From wherever you stay to the clinic, is the distance so far that you cannot get there any other way?

I don't know how this would work, or if a hospital even offers it by you, but Methadone is a NMDA receptor antagonist. Ketamine is also a NMDA receptor antagonist.

Ketamine is used in a medical setting for chronic pain patients and depressed folks as well.

Part of Ketamines method of action, resets pain receptors in your brain. If it is offered by you, that might be an option.

I'd read Loperamide mega threads before starting it as a taper.

Also read any methadone threads and see what may help.

Even if you have to make a deal with family, try to taper your dose as best you can.

As always, YMMV.
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Isn't DXM a NMDA antagonist as well?
 
Methadonefucked said:
i had a nasty relapse with cocaine and benzos that ended with my car getting fucked up and me arrested. There pissed off and never really supported me getting on methadone to begin with. Plus it's 75 miles round trip to the clinic and they work full time so it is legitimately hard for them. I got them to commit to at least let me taper for a week or 2. I'm hoping I can stretch it out long enough to start getting take homes and maybe not be totally fucked. I mean it's my own dumbass fault I'm in this position I'm just hoping I can make them see reason so I don't have to do anything drastic.
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Dude, story of my life! No joke either, it was really sad...

Anyhoo, I'm glad to hear you are doing your best to work with what you have. It won't do any real good while you tolerant to a high dose of methadone, but stocking up on some quality high content 7-HMG strain of kratom might be something good to have around if and when it becomes necessary. That will be infinitely more practical and safer than relying on loperamide. Do you have much experience using kratom?

DXM was absolutely crucial in my process of getting off methadone, but I am rather partial to dissociative psychedelics %)
 
I'm going to try and figure out how to get Kratom but most websites won't ship to my state due to the legality issue. I don't really want to pay black market prices for Kratom either. I may put that money towards lortab or something like that. I convinced my family that jumping off at this high a dose was suicidal. The clincher was a site I found explaining that methadone was the most dangerous opiate to withdraw from and that death was a possibility.

thanks for all the advice. Hopefully things will go smoothly as I taper down. I am really hoping I'll be able to get take homes in time to not have to get off the done because it has really been a life saver as far as opiates go. But anyway crises has been kicked down the road a bit.
 
Possibly try to network at the clinic and see if you can find a carpool?

I'm lucky to live within walking distance, so when I was car-less it was ok. But I know of ppl at the clinic who come from 30-60 miles away daily, and a lot of them ride together.

They used to even get reimbursed for mileage from medical assistance for driving other ppl! Not sure if that still is true, as that was around 2001 or so. But I'm sure for a little gas $ someone would carpool...
 
Methadonefucked said:
I'm going to try and figure out how to get Kratom but most websites won't ship to my state due to the legality issue. I don't really want to pay black market prices for Kratom either. I may put that money towards lortab or something like that. I convinced my family that jumping off at this high a dose was suicidal. The clincher was a site I found explaining that methadone was the most dangerous opiate to withdraw from and that death was a possibility.

thanks for all the advice. Hopefully things will go smoothly as I taper down. I am really hoping I'll be able to get take homes in time to not have to get off the done because it has really been a life saver as far as opiates go. But anyway crises has been kicked down the road a bit.
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Can you source tramadol or buprenorphine (ideal meds to use to detox methadone), or codeine even (easier to manage than hydrocodone to use for detox)?
 
So I used a large amount of H for a good period of time and than decided to get clean using immodium, tagnet, and xanax. I started taking 40-60 pills of 2mg immodium every 12 hours. With each dose I took 2-3 pills of tagnet, than took xanax as needed. The first 2-3 days I was a little uncomfurtable but was functional. Once I was on day 4 or 5, I was able to dose once every 24 hours. Once I was at that point, I would taper off 5 pills of immodium each dose. I have done this for years and never have had any health problems from it. But if you stay on immodium for a long period of time you will regret it. Try to get off of it as fast as possible. Also try to take laxitives or a light colon clense after four or five days and continue to do so until your off of it. Make sure your going poo twice a day. This is very important or you will be in a lot of pain. You also have to drink a lot of water when your on high amounts of immodium. I would drink at least a gallon of water a day.
 
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People need to stop recommending lope. Only people who can't get Kratom or poppy seeds for tea would resort to it and even then it's still not recommended. Lope is cardiotoxic in unknown doses. No one knows the limit or line before doing damage so that means there is no safe dose as there is no known safe dosage... Lope is harmful and recommending anybody a harmful substance is not harm reduction, which is what we are about so if you are not going to engage in harm reduction then please do not give advice
 
tacodude said:
People need to stop recommending lope. Only people who can't get Kratom or poppy seeds for tea would resort to it and even then it's still not recommended. Lope is cardiotoxic in unknown doses. No one knows the limit or line before doing damage so that means there is no safe dose as there is no known safe dosage... Lope is harmful and recommending anybody a harmful substance is not harm reduction, which is what we are about so if you are not going to engage in harm reduction then please do not give advice
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This is an answer a moderator would give (nice tacodude). I must agree. I am sorry you are going through or about to withdrawal, but Loperamide, much above therapeutic, is very bad for you.

For the person who has absolutely no other choice, you can still take a much lower dose then what other people have been suggesting.
 
^^ different subject for PM's. We know your here! Go with the flow. Get a smooth rhythm going with your replies.

We'll PM after I clear my inbox.

Keep up the good work taco!!
 
I'm too lazy to make an effort like that :p I don't think I'd be up to being responsible like that, but I'm totally down to clean posts as I see them. I guess the report buttons enough...

Say nope to lope! The only time to just say no, but that is because you know.
 
Look, lope works, and definitely can be used up to a reasonable dose, like 40mg, but I would never rely on just lope.

If you also used gabapentin, if available, a longer acting benzo, the poppy tea or higher dose Kush cannabis, and tea like chamomile, that's one of the ways you can do it, unless you can get bupe.
 
I understand that, but the more it is accepted the more those cases will happen. 40 mg may be fine a couple times, but doing it repeatedly will cause it to build up in the system due to the extremely long half life. There's so many factors to it being dangerous it really shouldn't be recommended unless harm would occur otherwise, but if it's just to avoid withdrawals again there are better solutions. Might as well recommend poppy seed tea or Kratom as at least they aren't toxic like that while pst has risks if the wrong species is present with high thebaine or worse... Thebacon present. Kratom is also relatively safe and mainly the extracts cut with rc opiates is the biggest danger. The only people I see buying lope are those afraid of being the target of the stigma the drug war brought fearing to reveal their situation to others, which is something anyone who needs recovery must get over.
 
I think Tacodudes point early was spot on. We shouldn't be recommending people to take lope. Ever. Except at therapeutic doses, of course.

Now of course plenty of people will continue to use high dose lope regardless of the risks. I've been there.. I get where they are coming from.

So when people ask advice on how to use lope safely for maintenance purposes we should make sure they understand the risks and suggest safer alternatives. If they still insist on taking it then I'd say harm reduction dictates we should advise them to take the lowest dose possible and for the shortest amount of time possible and/or taper off as quickly as possible.

If someone is asking for advice on how to use lope recreationally then we should very strongly advise them against it. There really isn't acceptable harm reduction beyond advising them against it because the dose required is way too high and other factors cannot be easily accounted for (tolerance, individual sensitivity, predisposed heart issues, other unknowns etc).

I don't know, this is just my 2 pennies worth.
 
Thank you mdpv. Couldn't type it up better myself...... Especially on a phone
 
svacheme3 said:
A moderator wouldn't approach harm reduction by saying because a handful of people got harmed with beyond extreme dosing for months or years, it's so dangerous it shouldn't be recommended at any dose despite no problems ever being reported. That's the opposite of harm reduction. Moderators should engage in a rational assessment of the known risks, not make policy based on unfounded speculation, to ya know, reduce the harm, because people are using it regardless.
Very disappointing.
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The truth may hurt, but it will set you free.

To whom it may concern, first off, I will admit that there is some relief that can be obtained from Loperamide. However, it has been proven to have more side effects at higher dosages, hence I said "much more than therapitic.

svacheme3, you don't mod, do you? If you have an issue with any moderator, feel free to PM that moderator directly or any other moderator. You do not call out anyone in any forum!

Feel free to go back and read the BLUA and the Other Drugs forum guidelines,before posting. Thanks.
 
MDPV_Psychosis said:
I think Tacodudes point early was spot on. We shouldn't be recommending people to take lope. Ever. Except at therapeutic doses, of course.

Now of course plenty of people will continue to use high dose lope regardless of the risks. I've been there.. I get where they are coming from.

So when people ask advice on how to use lope safely for maintenance purposes we should make sure they understand the risks and suggest safer alternatives. If they still insist on taking it then I'd say harm reduction dictates we should advise them to take the lowest dose possible and for the shortest amount of time possible and/or taper off as quickly as possible.

If someone is asking for advice on how to use lope recreationally then we should very strongly advise them against it. There really isn't acceptable harm reduction beyond advising them against it because the dose required is way too high and other factors cannot be easily accounted for (tolerance, individual sensitivity, predisposed heart issues, other unknowns etc).

I don't know, this is just my 2 pennies worth.
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Excellent post MDPV. Thank you for that clear explanation.
 
My last post was a reply to you saying "That sounds like an answer a moderator would give".

Edit: Per request to not call out I'll redirect the rest of this point to staff.

Edit2: Your inbox is full, I'll try again later before just PMing all the other mods.

---------------------------
Maybe save some time by specifically clarifying,

-If a user seeks information on safely using loperamide for withdrawal (nothing in this thread ever concerned recreational use), recommending a dosage far below that level is something that results in post deletion because according to you, problems at extreme doses mean no doses are safe (bear in mind methadone also causes heart problems at extreme doses, the principal is no different), or that HR is only served by limiting information to recommending the 4mg/day maximum on-label usage (it's not, because people won't limit themselves to doses that don't work), and that any recommendation besides that is grounds for deletion.

-All case reports of loperamide-related cardiac issues are from individuals who used 400-1200mg/day for months or years continuously (or not previously mentioned but I believe one was 800mg acute); should this information also be withheld?

-That there is something in the rules that support this.
 
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