Opioids Suboxone withdrawal sweats vs Oxycodone withdrawal sweats

[Eight0Eight]

I found sweating to be worse from kicking IV Heroin than Suboxone. However, the overall withdrawal syndrome was worse with Buprenorphine than from Heroin. Not due to duration, but due to intensity of the psychological symptoms (suicidal ideation, intense fear, agorophobia, panic attacks, etc).

How much sub did you jump off from?

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Wow, I find that incredible that you found that the overall withdrawal syndrome was worse with Buprenorphine than from Heroin. That's even more extreme example than I would have expected.

I'd like to PM you for more information, but can you tell me if you were actually successful in withdrawing from Subutex?

If so, you would be the first person that I have heard of who has successfully said "goodbye" to Buperenorphine.

I wonder if anyone knows of any examples of people who have used short acting opiode agonists like Oxycodone to ease the withdrawals of Subutex. Thanks.

My husband has successfully said goodbye to bupe 6 months ago. Wasn't easy but he did it and hasn't touched any opiates since then. Before bupe he had a 6 month long daily heroin habit, just like me, but I'm still on bupe.


I have to wonder how productive w/d comparison is. Let's say I try to w/d from bupe today and say that my w/d were horrible worse than my heroin w/d a year ago. But the thing is that my brain hasn't been proudcing endorphins for another year since I've been on bupe and it has to recover. I think w/d comparison is usually useless cuz of so many different factors being involved in w/d.

 

[Johnny blue]

I've actually been able to taper quite easily with suboxone lately. The withdrawal is now pretty much non existent.

 

[dragonslayer428]

This is why I hate Suboxone. I was on it for 3 weeks (my doctor luckily realized that after the 2 month barrier, your body gets too addicted).

All suboxone does is delay the inevitable...withdrawals. That's why I cold turkey from opiates, instead of Subs or any of that other crap. Like someone said, withdrawal is withdrawal is withdrawal.

Just bite the bullet for 3 days and go cold turkey. Right now I'm on day 6. I tapered from 360mg of Roxi's a day, to 60mg a day and had the least amount of withdrawal ever. This is my 5th or 6th time withdrawing.

 

[Tchort]

I've actually been able to taper quite easily with suboxone lately. The withdrawal is now pretty much non existent.

This is true of most people. Buprenorphine is so deceptive. Combine that with what the docs tell you and a lot of people run into trouble. Bupe doesn't feel like an opioid, it's energezing, it takes a long time to feel withdrawal symptoms after you stop taking it, and it is painless to drop your dosage massively.

This is why I hate Suboxone. I was on it for 3 weeks (my doctor luckily realized that after the 2 month barrier, your body gets too addicted).

All suboxone does is delay the inevitable...withdrawals. That's why I cold turkey from opiates, instead of Subs or any of that other crap. Like someone said, withdrawal is withdrawal is withdrawal.

Just bite the bullet for 3 days and go cold turkey. Right now I'm on day 6. I tapered from 360mg of Roxi's a day, to 60mg a day and had the least amount of withdrawal ever. This is my 5th or 6th time withdrawing.

That's not the case. Buprenorphine is an opioid; there is no 2 month barrier. Dope is dope is dope.

Delaying the inevitable is not what Buprenorphine or Methadone or LAAM or any other long acting opioid does. When used as a detox agent, the point is to switch to the long acting opioid so your blood serum levels drop very, very slowly rather than very rapidly like they do with short acting opioids (Heroin, Oxycodone, Morphine, etc). This makes it very easy to lower your dose, and eventually stop taking it- it takes 2 or 3 days for your body to finally catch up to the lack of a dose. So the point is to cushion you into abstinence, making the withdrawal syndrome less intense and thus easier to handle.

When used as a maintenance drug, this becomes more difficult to do at the end. Longterm long acting opioid maintenance patients (Bupe, Methadone) often report using a short acting opioid at the end of their maintenance treatment (usually DHC where available). This switches the dependancy around. In the above example you were addicted to a short acting opioid, the long acting opioid cushions you into withdrawal comfortably. In the second example, on a long acting opioid, you switch to the short acting opioid to keep you comfortable for the 2-6 week period of long acting opioid withdrawal syndrome to attempt and shorten the period of withdrawal syndrome.

There is a definite reason behind it. Maintenance is usually the best treatment for the average opioid addict.

I'd like to PM you for more information, but can you tell me if you were actually successful in withdrawing from Subutex?

If so, you would be the first person that I have heard of who has successfully said "goodbye" to Buperenorphine.

Of course not, I went back to shooting dope Went on MMT shortley after that.

I know a lot of people who went on Suboxone/Subutex; all of them are on MMT.

 

[FrostyMcFailure]

so true. i've never beat out the suboxone withdrawals like the OP. i can agree with the above quote 100%. the chills i get from suboxone withdrawal are horrendous. i live in rochester, new york and the cold weather hurts--it literally pains my skin if i'm w/d from bupe: like little knives the goosebumps kill.

i've manned up on H withdrawal from years of use a few times & tangled with that Benzo beast twice or thrice but GOD DAYMN SUBOXONE WITHDRAWAL MAKES ME WANT TO :'( so much that if i still could i would.

 

[mebroken]

is a sub kick worse than methadone kick?
i kicked 180 mgs a day methadone habit (with a couple bundles dope on top) and was the worst thing ever. didn't eat or sleep for 21 days, lost mind and jumped out window of detox place and went and got dope. good times good times. ugh.

 

[smackem]

is a sub kick worse than methadone kick?
i kicked 180 mgs a day methadone habit (with a couple bundles dope on top) and was the worst thing ever. didn't eat or sleep for 21 days, lost mind and jumped out window of detox place and went and got dope. good times good times. ugh.

Dear god. I can't beilive they made you CT that habit. What a shitty deal.

 

[Selfmeditaker]

Oh I would give it to the sub hands down, and havent really used suboxone that many times. A handful but not a lot. The sweats were horrible. An they seemed to stay with me all day and night. I would just be constantly wiping my forehead and clothes sticking to ya My palms were what sweated the most. Like dripping sweat on usually 8-16mg of sub a day. I guess maybe my body has become so use to the oc sweats that I feel as though their always the same and I know exactly what to expect...eehh.

Anyone else ever get extremely sweatiness on their hands/palms???

 

[Ufotofu9]

When used as a maintenance drug, this becomes more difficult to do at the end. Longterm long acting opioid maintenance patients (Bupe, Methadone) often report using a short acting opioid at the end of their maintenance treatment (usually DHC where available). This switches the dependancy around. In the above example you were addicted to a short acting opioid, the long acting opioid cushions you into withdrawal comfortably. In the second example, on a long acting opioid, you switch to the short acting opioid to keep you comfortable for the 2-6 week period of long acting opioid withdrawal syndrome to attempt and shorten the period of withdrawal syndrome.

Right. Now I have to convince my doctor of this.

That Bupenorphine "training" that doctors have to take in order to get prescribing rights for Bupe still seem to be teaching that Bupe doesn't have any withdrawal syndrome when you stop taking it. And far be it from us stupid patients to correct or undermine these delicate genius doctors.

 

[FrostyMcFailure]

Just bite the bullet for 3 days and go cold turkey.

three days, that must've been pretty intense withdrawal lol. From heroin after a few years detox sickness lasted 9+dayz. I dont even want to think what the three years of suboxone maintenance will cost.

 

[Tchort]

Unfortunately we (addicts) have internalized a lot of the moral model of addiction propaganda from the 1920s-1950s. I definitely think this 'bite the bullet', 'man up', etc attitude towards withdrawal and detox/staying abstinent from narcotics comes from these early (and completely false and harmful) ideas about what causes and maintains addiction and addictive behavior.

I don't believe it is a matter of inner strength or willpower. Willing away a problem that is based in physiology is no better than praying for it to go away- and we all know how often our prayers are answered.

I read an article about all of the painkiller addicts in rural Virginia's mining communities. A lot of Oxycodone and Hydrocodone addicts expressed this attitude that they would 'just do it the hard way', 'bite the bullet' etc. One of them put it bluntly with 'I've never known anyone to kick this habit the hard way'. Most of them are in MMT- something that is completely opposed to this moral model of addiction. But the rhetoric remains. I don't think it helps anyone, and it only hurts the people who are putting forward the best effort they possibly can to stop using. That just is not enough for everyone; dare I say most.

 

[Ufotofu9]

Hi,

I have been posting for a while and if I am being redundant it's just b/c some people may not know my reason for being on Subutex.

I was Rx'ed Bupe in Spain at 0.2 g for hip pain. When I returned to the U.S, my psychiatrist scripted me Bupe 2 mg which I cut into quarters as best as I could--Subutex is quite crumbly.

When the pain subsided around April I tried to quit Subutex twice. I slowly tapered down to where I was taking a crumb of Bupe sublingually ever other day until I finally stopped taking Subutex, which was on a Tuesday morning.

On day 3, Thursday,the withdrawals started: nausea, diarrea, increased sensitivity to pain (even my shirt touching my skin hurt) and above all, depression and anxiety. Most of the w/d symptoms got better around the second day of withdrawal, which was a Friday. But the depression continued until by day 9 I couldn't stand the mental anguish anymore and started the Subutex again.

I still want to stop Subutex, and so I had an appointment with my psychiatrist last Tuesday. I looked through this forum for information about less painful withdrawals and told him that I wanted to get off.

Of course he told me the old "Reckitt Benckiser corporate line" that Buprenorphine has mild to no withdrawals, which I countered and disproved thoroughly using examples from this thread and other Bluelight threads.

I finally had my doctor's attention, and he asked me what I would like to do if I'm not able to come off the Subutex by titrating to miniscule amounts and then "touching my way through" withdrawal.

This is what I had tried to do with my other unsuccessful detoxes. I tried to treat each w/d symptom separately with Xanax, Chloral Hydrate (for sleep) and other medicines. I knew that was not going to work.

Instead, I told him about and showed him a treatment in the U.K which has been found to be as effective, cheaper and God knows much safer than Methadone treatment. It is a treatment which replaces people's drug of choice with Dihydrocodeine. And here is the DHC taper schedule

It seemed as though he was going to acquiesce, saying that it was a "unconventional" idea, but that it made sense. The DHC would see me through the Bupe w/d's, and then I could titrate off of DHC once the Bupe w/d's are gone--and since I didn't start Buprenorphine for opioid addiction or detox, I know that my doctor trusts me to not abuse DHC.

Now, considering that the DHC treatment has been reported since AT LEAST 2006, it is sad that an addiction specialist has never heard of this method; a medical doctor who is certified to prescribe an incredibly powerful drug, Subutex, did not know about a much safer and potentially groundbreaking alternative to Bupe and Methadone detox which has been published in a peer reviewed journal.

While my doctor looked on his computer for DHC's brandname in the U.S.A, I finally thought that I was going to get some help to stop Subutex once and for all. But of course it wasn't that simple.

Unfortunately my doctor told me that, in fact, the only opioids which the FDA allows for detox are Buprenorphine and Methadone--even if the frug I am detoxing from IS Buprenorphine!!! Since Dihydrocodeine cannot be prescribed for detox, he wouldn't Rx it for me.

Now I can understand why my doc wouldn't Rx me DHC. It is against the law for him to prescribe it for detox. But it is MADDENING and BEYOND BELIEF AND REASON that he can and does gladly prescribe me Subutex (he even mentioned the idea of Methadone. Never!). Buprenorphine and Methadone are ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE stronger and more difficult to detox from than DHC, a relatively weak opioid which is OTC in some countries and has a great chance of helping me off of Subutex.

I feel like I'm in a Kafka novel. I mean it's absolutely CRAZY that my doc can Rx me powerful opioides, but his arms are supposedly tied with DHC.

I'm now 4 days off of Subutex, but I have been using Poppy Pod Tea since Wednesday to get me through the beginning. But right now I just don't know what to do.

Thanks for listening, and I would appreciate any advice.

 

[Ufotofu9]

Anyone still interested in this FASCINATING subject. Anyone mind if I bump up this thread? No? Cool,
thanks.

 

[PinK~cloud]

^^ sounds interesting, but not likely many docs would go for it.

back to the original topic. i get full body sweats in the morning or afternoon before i take my sub dose. it rained today and was cold, and i was sitting there freezing while sweating my balls off. shitty stuff.

 

[Tchort]

I'm sorry the doctor is being like this, ufotofu.

However, it is possible that you may benefit from a 21 day taper using low doses of Methadone (starting at like 10-15mg, going down to 0mg). Substituting Buprenorphine to any other opioid should provide an improvement over trying to kick Buprenorphine without another opioid taper.

Perhaps your doctor will prescribe you enough 5mg Methadose tablets to do this taper?

If he will or he won't, you should at least try to get him to prescribe several medications used to treat the symptoms of opioid withdrawal. This is common practice in rehab facilities and hospitals. These drugs are mostly or all available in generic, and are very cheap. Some are OTC and equally cheap. While they work best combined with an opioid taper, they will help immensely by themselves.

Prescription medications:

1) Clonidine (brand name Catapres). A must, it is the best medication for opioid withdrawal symptoms. Will help with sweating, anxiety, blood pressure, heart rate, the hot/cold flashes, etc.

2) A Benzodiazepine, a medium to long acting one, especially Diazepam (Valium) and Chlordiazepoxide (Librium). Great for anxiety/panic, tremors, muscle tension/pain, etc.

3) Trazodone, Zolpidem (Ambien), Zaleplon (Sonata), etc. A sleep aid to combat insomnia.

Over-The-Counter Medications:

1) Meclizine (brand names Bonine, Dramamine II). An anti-Histamine that is an anti-emetic. It will help with nausea and vomiting, and will help with histamine related symptoms (watering eyes, runny nose, scratchy throat, etc).

2) Loperamide (Immodium). An opioid that only works on the mu receptors in the bowel. Will help with diarrhea and assorted withdrawl symptoms.

3) Ibuprofen (Advil). Ranked one of if not the best OTC pain reliever. Will help with general aches and pains.

4) Quinine (Restful Legs, various other names). Many chain pharmacies have medications that contain Quinine, which is a great drug for restless leg syndrome ('kicking').

EDIT:

http://www.doctordeluca.com/Library/DetoxEngage/OBOT_Detox.htm

You may want to print out that Open Letter, it contains data and philosophy behind prescribing an opioid (in that case Propoxyphene) in combination with the medications I listed above to treat opioid withdrawal in an outpatient setting (by a private doctor). It goes over the benefits to using an opioid along with symptom management medications to treat withdrawal syndrome.

Good luck man, hang in there.

 

[Jesse Drake II]

Tchort, thanks for providing such quality info.

 

[Supeudol]

I went from Phoenix Arizona to Seattle, Tacoma (keep on'a rockin me bacby')

 

[Johnny blue]

^ lolwut

 

[DipsetOxy87]

LOL i forgot i even started this thread ..well..anyways...im glad to say im free of everything now...i was asking about kratom on here and shit jus to research but anyways...yea i been off suboxone over 115 days...i stopped at like...8-12 milligrams which is a stupid move..went into detox..told them im abusing oxy..(cant tell them i was on suboxone they wont detox me off...and this particular detox uses methadone not suboxone to kick opiates)..so what they did was gave me methadone for 8 days..i came out...not any better...and i went cold turkey from there..methadone jus made it worst...up until 2 weeks ago...i jus started feeling better from the suboxone withdrawal..it lasts 3 months for me...after first month it got a tiny bit better but it fuckin sucked i still get sweats and cant sleep...its the devil fi it isnt used under the right circumstances..but yea...sorry im bumpin this but i think this subject is greatly appreciated on here