Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

[Flaga121]

I think many of us need to stop thinking about length of time/effort till clean. Yes in that regard Bupe is worse then most codeine use. In terms of long term harm from treatment resistant addiction however, Bupe is better. Evele now has money to spend on things other then her addiction because the Bupe is covered by insurance. No need to redose throughout the day or dealing with mood swings from the dose leaving her system. This allows her to go about her life in a much more functional way.

For people who can't take the time out of life (such a those with small children). Or for those who relapse time and time again, Bupe is a better option then trying and failing to live clean. It makes life livable and increases QOL. One day she may be ready to kick the Bupe, and yes it'll take longer to taper back down to a smaller dose, but it's worth it.

I know I said similar things at first, just want to help everyone else see clearly what I have, and why my view has changed.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

I feel what your saying bout the quality of life thing being on maintenance. . My life felt so much more simple when on bupe. But was it really? I donno. I know i would feel better if I was back on it.. I KNOW I would. But after almost 2 years off it but still not feeling right, what do you all think would be the best move? Continue to suffer hoping it will end sometime soon or go back on it and one day have to do this all over again? I feel it's just delaying the inevitable. . But can I put it off forever somehow or is there always hell to pay at the end?

Sorry if this was hard to read. I'm on my phone.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

My life was a lot simpler when I was numb on methadone...but that's not living. Living is FEELING. Its painful and raw sometimes to feel. But what's the point of going thru life half sedated?
I spent decades numb and disconnected from life. Yes, it's hard to be straight..but worth it.
Hang in there OD, it takes yrs sometimes to shake the memory of dope, but you can do it.

 

[Flaga121]

Hdouble- Not hard to read at all, and I know what your saying. In some ways Bupe was solid medicine for me as well. Solved my ADHD better then Amphs ever did, with FAR less side effects. Once my dose was low enough i lived a healthy life. But chemical dependency still sucks in lots of ways. I think to some degree, Bupe works surprisingly well (in super low dose) as a anti- depressant, and I'd take it over SSRIs if those were my options. In the end though, because it is not (yet) accepted medically in those uses, you'd have to find the right doc. I'd say if the situation were that you had to fool a doc into thinking you were always on opiate maintenance its just delaying the inevitable. But if you found a doc willing to work with low dose bupe to cure a combination of addictive tendencies and other psychological patterns, it could be helpful. Mind you I'm talking a dose of no more then 1mg, perhaps less then half that.

Bupe actually did help me while I was on it, for more then addiction. I chose now to stop because I felt I could do without. And while I've kicked the dependency I still love my Kratom every few days. Being able to get that "perfect" feeling once in awhile is nice, helps keep the urges for other highs away.

I don't think its fair to equate low dose Bupe and Dom. Low dose Bupe does not make you numb. It's a subtle cushion, MUCH more subtle then acceptable medications for many psychological situations (again LOW dose). It nerfed some natrual highs for sure, but a low enough dose could work as a solid medication for things other then addiction. Bupe doesn't work for most as a sedative, kind of the opposite for me at least. So, while I agree if sober works, nothing better. As a mental health professional I know lots of people live higher quality lives on medication. Its just an issue of if Bupe can be one of those medications at the right dose.

 

[eteezy915]

After using about .3 Saturday n last shot Sunday morn, maybe .1 with a couple cottons i was able to transition back on to bupe(.5 subL w alcohol) after 24 hours as opposed to the 44 i waited when coming from oc. The dope seems to get me sicker quicker.
Any way I'm starting this taper with no back up stash of pills/h.
I stumbled across a thread that talked about mixing antihistamines with bupe and i decided to try it out. (found an old unopened bad of rigs) Prepped 25mg diphenhydramine but didn't mess with it too much only pulled back 2/3rds the water i put in, then used that solution on .5mg bupe. I must say that the DPH send to take that edgy feeling of the bupe, makes it feel like a more typical opiate. I was almost nodding, although was also very tired from not sleeping well the night before so the relief from the sub might have been letting be fall asleep finally. I might have to steer clear of this practice if i want to be successful this time bc its almost enjoyable, but kind of a tease. Plus i need to move away from the needle but I'm sure taking the DpH orally before dropping the sub subL would provide the same result.

 

[Eveleivibe]

I think many of us need to stop thinking about length of time/effort till clean. Yes in that regard Bupe is worse then most codeine use. In terms of long term harm from treatment resistant addiction however, Bupe is better. Evele now has money to spend on things other then her addiction because the Bupe is covered by insurance. No need to redose throughout the day or dealing with mood swings from the dose leaving her system. This allows her to go about her life in a much more functional way.

For people who can't take the time out of life (such a those with small children). Or for those who relapse time and time again, Bupe is a better option then trying and failing to live clean. It makes life livable and increases QOL. One day she may be ready to kick the Bupe, and yes it'll take longer to taper back down to a smaller dose, but it's worth it.

I know I said similar things at first, just want to help everyone else see clearly what I have, and why my view has changed.

Thank you, Flaga121. Very good points and very true xxxx

 

[jakonindenver]

I was thinking the same thing...
Just get a liquid measuring syringe from the drugstore, crush the pill, add H20 and enjoy

Ha. That is not a very efficient way to plug man.. why would you shove an actual pill up your ass when you could just break it down into a solution and squirt it up there like normal..?

It was a quarter pill and it happened to work really well. Being homeless and staying in shelters, reading bluelight at the library/not having much money etc.... it was just to try and see what happened, it also worked fairly well considering....

 

[PKPro]

The doctor(s) who agreed to put you on suboxone for a CODEINE habit has to have their licensed removed. Same thing for somebody who would have a low dose oral morphine habit, hydrocodone habit, even low dose oxycodone habit.

High doses of oxycodone (no matter how taken) and anyone who's using the needle, may it be for heroin, morphine, dilaudid, opana, demerol, talwin etc. is warranted to be on maintenance, especially if one has pain issues in the background that led them to the dark pits of hell.

I could go on about how long I've used CodeineContins 200mg and CWE'd Empracets 30mg/300mg, it never made me feel so bad physically that it compares to torture without anyone but my own system doing the harming like from the Dilaudid IV habit I got years later, after having stopped all opiate taking, I'd try to CWE loads of tylenol #1's and 222's to taper myself from that and it was just impossible. I'd feel great from one CWE extraction, but since codeine works only once a day....i'd get a 3 hour stop to my hell, taking more just gave me terrible stomach discomfort (the caffeine from the OTC pills).

You've made a mistake of such magnitudes...Get it through your head, I'm lamenting my own condition because 12mg of suboxone acts on your opiate receptor system (explained in very laymen terms here) equally to 39mg of hydromorphone IV! A DAY! Trying to equal that in codeine intake would require amounts that would probably cause liver failure, even if pure codeine, heh.

I put the calculation somewhere a couple pages back on this thread, and in another if I'm not mistaken, it's like 4000 or so mgs of codeine.
I'm on your side, I have no hard feelings toward evey, but I still think it's a bit ridiculous to be on bupe, let alone such a high dose for any low strength opiates. (Regardless of dose, especially with codeine which stops getting better after a certain dose)

I would've tried to find a way to taper her down using codeine or tramadol. Would've saved her a lot of time, pain, and would saved her tolerance, which is shot now...

But when someone believes it's truly what they need (and the dr. Enables them...) there's nothing you can do to try and tell them otherwise, to each their own, in the end it's not my tolly, mine "shot up" a long time ago (hah). Just sad to see someone who could've saved it have it blown up by bupe.

Who knows maybe it's for the best, that way even if she relapsed she will never get high on it again. Period.

Meh, few people tend to heed my advice, though I have never steered anyone wrong (yet), but those who do always agree that it was good advice. Oh well *shrug*

 

[Zwanya]

I put the calculation somewhere a couple pages back on this thread, and in another if I'm not mistaken, it's like 4000 or so mgs of codeine.
I'm on your side, I have no hard feelings toward evey, but I still think it's a bit ridiculous to be on bupe, let alone such a high dose for any low strength opiates. (Regardless of dose, especially with codeine which stops getting better after a certain dose)

I would've tried to find a way to taper her down using codeine or tramadol. Would've saved her a lot of time, pain, and would saved her tolerance, which is shot now...

But when someone believes it's truly what they need (and the dr. Enables them...) there's nothing you can do to try and tell them otherwise, to each their own, in the end it's not my tolly, mine "shot up" a long time ago (hah). Just sad to see someone who could've saved it have it blown up by bupe.

Who knows maybe it's for the best, that way even if she relapsed she will never get high on it again. Period.

Meh, few people tend to heed my advice, though I have never steered anyone wrong (yet), but those who do always agree that it was good advice. Oh well *shrug*

PK-Save it for a member who seeks your advice, love. I know you've never steered anyone wrong, but we know exactly where this conversation is going. Folks who are newer to the thread can just read back a few weeks and you'll see a few comprehesive posts regarding this subject.

Perhaps we can all agree to move on; the topic has already been argued to death.

 

[eteezy915]

Uhg, bupe helps out w the physical tremendously but not so much with the mental. i can tell I'm cleaning up a tad because I'm remembering my dreams for the first time in years, to bad they're all about shooting up and causing me to wake up in panic/fight or flight mode. My heart is just now slowing down and this was like ten min ago. Terrible feeling.

 

[Floridagirl85]

I am withdrawing from my suboxone and I was wondering how long I should wait to take my methadone? I've been on Suboxone for about 3 yrs. on & off. And I was weaning off the subs. So I was down to 2 mgs. a day & that was 2 days ago. Please help me out. My back hurts so bad that I can barely get out of bed. Thanks

 

[eteezy915]

You could take the methadone whenever you want, just be sure to up your dose slowly so that you don't take more than needed. As a former MMT patient and sub maintence, the opposite order of you, i could see it being very easy top go backwards with the 'done, as in increasing your tolerance when tryn to decrease it.

 

[Floridagirl85]

I'm actually just taking the dones so my withdraws won't be so bad. I also have my adderall and klonopin. But I don't want to take the dones to soon because I want to make sure I have enough to get me through the WD from the subs. I want to make sure that they will work and I am not just wasting the dones. So how long should I wait to take the methadone?

 

[Ziggy stardust]

As Eteezy said...you can take it anytime after taking sub...
But your not going to avoid WD by taking meth, all opiates are interchangeable and you will still have WDs...

 

[eteezy915]

If you are feeling ill you can def take the 'done, start low like 10/20mg, wait an hour out two, be honest with yourself when determining how u feel and if you feel u need it 5 or 10 more mg. I went from 30mg done to 8mg bupe pretty easy so i don't see you NEEDing much more than that. Maybe start w 10 n work from there

 

[Ziggy stardust]

Uhg, bupe helps out w the physical tremendously but not so much with the mental. i can tell I'm cleaning up a tad because I'm remembering my dreams for the first time in years, to bad they're all about shooting up and causing me to wake up in panic/fight or flight mode. My heart is just now slowing down and this was like ten min ago. Terrible feeling.

I had what could only be described as panic attacks in my sleep during sub WD. I'd wake up with my heart racing. It went away in the first couple weeks tho...hang in there.

 

[adder]

What do you mean by hypersensitive? Like a small amount is way more than enough and you were having dysphoria at prescribed doses? I ask because I have only taken suboxone once and it was the worst "opiate" experience in my life. I know it seems to be subjective as to whether there is a high or not, but my buddy would eat 4mg or 8mg with no tolerance to opiates. I had a mild tolerance at the time with no other opiates in my system. I put 2mg under my tongue and I felt the worst any medicine has ever made me feel. Felt like my brain was boiling...felt stupid...felt dizzy....little nausea...and pretty much a 3 hour panic attack at one point. I had xanax but didn't want to mix it seeing how strong bupe is. i ended up just breaking a 1mg pill into a quarter to take the edge off, but wow...what a horrible experience. Wish I knew what people like about bupe...or could feel it even. I just use lope, kratom, and benzos for WDs.

When I started Suboxone maintenance, after 2mg on the first day and 4mg on the second day, I was feeling crappy on the third day too. I had a terrible headache and nausea. My tolerance to opioids at that time wasn't really high as I was 2 months off methadone and I just took morphine and codeine a few times, and tramadol for less than 2 weeks before the maintenance I guess. But in the past it was quite high, I could do over 2g of heroin throughout the day, I live in Poland, and you could still get good quality brown heroin in 2007-2008 here. Anyway, you have to keep in mind buprenorphine is a partial agonist and 2mg of it is like 80-120mg of morphine. I think that buprenorphine doses should be as low as possible at the very beginning, because switching may be a real shock and it doesn't necessarily have to involve precipitated withdrawal. I guess it might be because the effective equivalent dose of buprenorphine occupies more opioid receptors than morphine, but activates them to a lesser extent, also preventing natural opioids from binding. During withdrawal natural opioid systems may be disrupted, but it doesn't mean they're not working at all. Then a few weeks later the small dose that made you feel crappy at the beginning may still be not enough to provide both psychological and physical comfort, so judging buprenorphine by a one-time experience may be wrong. I've been on Suboxone for over 15 months now and although I sometimes long for morphine, sometimes I experience pain that I can't fight with using anything, I wouldn't change it for methadone, because Suboxone gives me a much more stable life and somehow it gives me a feeling that I'm actually off opioids, although I'm still on a partial agonist. The only drug I would switch to would be a full agonist orvinol or some other long-acting morphinan that wouldn't be much different in the feeling from morphine-like opioids. But still I would observe myself if it makes my head cloudy or not.

 

[Floridagirl85]

As Eteezy said...you can take it anytime after taking sub...
But your not going to avoid WD by taking meth, all opiates are interchangeable and you will still have WDs...

I'm not trying to avoid the w/d. I'm trying to lesson the pain. So that's why I am wondering how long I need to wait to take methadone.

 

[eteezy915]

I had what could only be described as panic attacks in my sleep during sub WD. I'd wake up with my heart racing. It went away in the first couple weeks tho...hang in there.

Yea i hope it goes away, it's a terrible reminder of how deep those hooks are in me, not only physically but mentally too. I'm only taking small dose of bupe to ease this detox from about a 2 month binge, mainly oc, some Ds and dope. I'm hoping the dreams subside after a couple days when the dope is out of my system.
Yesterday was my first day back on the sub, took .5 subL 24 hours after last h shot then iv'd another .5 about 6 hours later, so 1mg total. i have iv'd .5 about an hour ago but many people recommend taking entire dose at once so should i take another .5 to equal yesterdays dose or tryn continue to skate by on as little as possible. I only ask cause once i start working it might be hours before i could get to my bupe so tryn to figure out if i should ride out what I've taken our boost it a bit.
Really i just need it to get thru work, i can be uncomfortable at night cause i can.usually get myself to sleep and i feel like the less i take the easier the switch to nothing will be.
I also have a limited supply 11mg left which should be more than enough if i do a 4-6 day taper, especiallybc i have tomorrow off n might try to take nothing. Sound like it might work? assuming i do my part that is.

 

[Floridagirl85]

Can someone please help me with this suboxone to methadone? I'm freaking the f*ck out. I'm either about to do something stupid or figure this out. HELP!!!!!!