Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

[Ziggy stardust]

Boston...you slipped again? Time to bump your sub up to 8mg, a blocking dose. What's to stop the "addict in you" to talk you into using again? I have to agree with Mr S, your fooling yourself dude.

 

[Eveleivibe]

I've been having a shit load of dreams about using lately too. A few nights ago I had back to back dreams with the same plot and setting despite waking up briefly in the middle.

I was on a road trip somewhere and I believe we were passing through what I think was Philly and I convinced the person who I was riding with (don't remember who it was) to pull off and stop to let me go cop in the open air market. Don't wanna bore you all with the details, but bottom line is I had s crazy vivid dream about copping stamps on the street which is something I've never done in real life, nor have I ever gotten shit packaged in stamps. Just another one to add to the growing list of drug related dreams I've had.

Buprenorphine keeps my body feeling well for the most part, but as far as cravings for full agonists go, it doesn't do much. I have a feeling that might be contributing to the dreams I've been having.

I wonder if methadone would help more with the cravings. Maybe I'm not at a proper buprenorphine dose, but I don't see how saturating my receptors with more bupe would help with it. The times that I have taken 8mgs+ I don't really remember it making too much of a difference.

I've had dreams about using. Not as often but I've had them n it freaked me about a bit. How long has it been since you last used because dreams tend to be less frequent as time goes on.

 

[RTrain]

Too bad the transition from Methadone to Suboxone is such a difficult one. It'd be nice if it was a much easier transition. I think ts pretty obvious that Methadone is a much better maintenance drug, while Sub is better to taper off and get completely clean from opiates. Going straight from getting high all day everyday to what the Bupe offers is rather depressing. Plus its a real bitch to get on Bupe in the first place if you have a habit bigger than bupe can cover up.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I just hate how doctors push bupe on people like it's this awesome tool to keep cravings at bay. Don't get me wrong; I'd rather have bupe around than nothing.

Do you find that methadone helps out with them any better? I'd have to imagine so, but the most I've ever taken was a 10mg pill that one of my friends tossed me. I'd really like to take a 40mg dose while I'm starting to feel shitty and see how I like it.

Yeah, I think methadone helps a lot more with cravings. You have to remember that bupe is only a partial agonist. Methadone is a full agonist, so it stimulates your receptors much more than bupe does.

And yeah, 10mg's is nothing. If you have a decent habit, you'll need at least 30-40mg's and maybe 50-60. Most maintenance doses are around 80-100mg's. I'm on 85 currently.

Too bad the transition from Methadone to Suboxone is such a difficult one. It'd be nice if it was a much easier transition. I think ts pretty obvious that Methadone is a much better maintenance drug, while Sub is better to taper off and get completely clean from opiates. Going straight from getting high all day everyday to what the Bupe offers is rather depressing. Plus its a real bitch to get on Bupe in the first place if you have a habit bigger than bupe can cover up.

That's why I ended up getting on methadone again this time. I just couldn't get back on the bupe.. I tried many times but it just wasn't working and I couldn't deal with the brutal transition, being so sick for 2-3 days before the bupe kicked in. So, it was either methadone or check into detox, and I didn't feel like going through hell again in an inpatient facility, so I opted for the methadone where I would do a slow taper on that and come off, or maybe switch to bupe once I get on a low enough dose.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

Too bad the transition from Methadone to Suboxone is such a difficult one. It'd be nice if it was a much easier transition. I think ts pretty obvious that Methadone is a much better maintenance drug, while Sub is better to taper off and get completely clean from opiates. Going straight from getting high all day everyday to what the Bupe offers is rather depressing. Plus its a real bitch to get on Bupe in the first place if you have a habit bigger than bupe can cover up.

Well said RT,
I never felt satisfied on sub..it made me feel wired and creepy. I had headaches when I started and they went away as I lower my dose. (They started me at 12mg! Way too high IMO) To be terribly honest...I miss meth sometimes. I slept like the dead, but I never miss sub.

 

[BlueHues]

Man, I shot dope on Wed-Fri last week and the Subs are only starting to work today....The cravings are outrageous! It definitely doesnt help with cravings like methadone....I'm ready to go try to find some dope around here, which I know there's tar here....After years of having dope habits though, I know that it wont be a one time thing...If I seek dope out today, odds are I'll keep going...and it's expensive....That's really the only thing stopping me...If I could get West Coast tar prices here, I'd still be doing it! I'm craving just about anything right now though, but as much as I love meth, being hooked on that shit makes heroin look like kids stuff, as far as what it does to you physically...so, Im just drinking a beer, grateful that the bupe is starting to work after four days!

The dope I got back east was bad-ass...my friend bought 3 bricks and just left it on the table and told me not to do too much! Misery loves company, I guess! I went there to do a shot and get on the road back out here...took me three days to leave though...and it's a miracle that I left at all!

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Well said RT,
I never felt satisfied on sub..it made me feel wired and creepy. I had headaches when I started and they went away as I lower my dose. (They started me at 12mg! Way too high IMO) To be terribly honest...I miss meth sometimes. I slept like the dead, but I never miss sub.

Yeah I sleep great on methadone. I'm fine during the day, alert and all good, but when I decide to go to bed, I fall asleep right away and sleep like a rock. Feels good.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

Yeah I sleep great on methadone. I'm fine during the day, alert and all good, but when I decide to go to bed, I fall asleep right away and sleep like a rock. Feels good.

Yep...I never really had a problem with meth...(except the hassle of dealing with a clinic)..I felt "normal" on it. I just figured after 12yrs it was time to get off it. Sub did help me get off meth. I tapered the meth, got on sub and tapered that. I've been off opiates since April and I STILL have sleep issues..oh..to sleep wrapped in the arms of Morpheus again!

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Haha, yeah. It takes a long time for your sleep to get back to normal when you come off opiates, no matter what dosage you dropped from or what drug. That's the worst part for me. I love how easy it is to sleep on opiates, even on maintenance.

 

[Effect]

Sleep is one thing that I'm glad buprenorphine allows me to do decently. Insomnia related to withdrawal is one of my most hated symptoms. Not looking forward to having to kick...

Thanks for all the responses regarding methadone everyone. If it weren't for having to get to a clinic everyday then I would be down for it. There's actually one a lot closer to my house than I imagined.

On a different note, I'm sure this has been covered, but how long does it take for all of you personally to start to feel symptoms of withdrawal from buprenorphine? Mention your dose too cause I'm sure that plays a part in it.

 

[RTrain]

^After the first 5 or so days, when I start to feel fine, I can get by with about 2 mg a day. I only do like 2/3rds in the AM(right when I wake up, I'm an early riser so its typically 6-8am), the other 1/3 in the late afternoon. When I wake up I feel a bit sick, but its not as bad now that I've been on for 2 weeks. I also cut down to 1 mg in morn and 1/2 in the afternoon. Before my second dose of the day I usually feel just less energized and more apathetic. The second dose gives me a little pick me up.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Blues how much subs you taking? I still had intense cravings on 8mg n now I'm on 12 mg n no cravings. I'm sorry that your cravings are bad right now. I wish I could offer you some advice in some way. Could you try increasing your suboxone dose for awhile?

 

[BlueHues]

I feel a lot better now today...With sub, its not really the dose so much as how long it takes to stabilize...A lot of people think its the dose, and that's why everyone takes so much...

I've tried taking higher doses in hopes that it would help, but it doesn't really do much...dose matters to an extent, of course....

Every time I've slipped up and done dope in the few years since I quit, its really fucked me up and made me actually think there was something else wrong with me! But then, I finally start to feel better and realize its the just the drugs!

I've always been able to deal with it, but as I get on into my thirties, It seems to get more difficult....Sure age plays a part in it, but my body is so used to heroin, its amazing how just a few days on heroin, going back on sub is almost as hard as if I had been using for a few years!

 

[Tommyboy]

All this talk about slip ups, I totally feel for anyone who does... If I hadn't moved back home and stayed in my college town I would have slipped up by now... Not having access to my evil best friend (ECP, aka no.4 H) definitely helps me avoid it at all costs... Though on some days I can hear it callin me.. It fuckin sucks.

As far as dreams go, I don't dream on opiates. Period. I don't know whether I like or dislike that... The only time i dream is when I take my trazodone (prescribed for my sleeping problems) and it gives me fucking nightmares... Not to mention I get this very weird sensation of my entire body tingling (same feeling as when your arm or leg falls asleep) except it's my whole body... Numb and tingly. It SUCKS.

Needless to say I avoid it. I'm gonna ask my dr. If she can switch me to something else... Anyone else here have sleep issues (also on bupe maintenance)? What are you prescribed? I have this odd problem where I get muscle spasms at night especially in bed... I'm thinking of asking my dr. to prescribe me some soma, pretty sure that'd knock me out and take care of my spasms.

I did the same thing, going away to school far from any city that would have opiates that I could easily find, and that kept me off of them for 9 months out of the year for my 3 years away. Of course I replaced opiates with drinking tons of beers at college though.

When I first went away I had been on suboxone maintenance for around 14 months and went to school with one last script to be filled, figuring I could either find a doctor up there since when I looked into it I found 3 sub doctors in that town, or I figured I would be fine to just stop since back then the doctors said suboxone barely gave you withdrawals when you stopped, and the internet didn't have all these forums saying otherwise. I ended up not being able to see any doctors there since it turned out there was only 1 and he had a 3 month waiting list so I said F it and just decided to kick once that script ran dry. I was taking 16mg a day and only did a 2 week taper and it was by far the worst kick of my life. I would choose going cold turkey from like 6 bags of good dope a day over that kick if I had to choose.

When I graduated and returned home to widely available heroin once again I found myself with a habit within 2 months, and that went on for close to 2 years before I kicked it.

yea, but if you remember I was pissed about the SNIFF and only a short time after the bupe; so as much as it was a slip, it wasnt a real SLIP! but Sunday was a FUNDAY SLIP! a slip that brought back the GOOD; not just the bad, ya know!??!

I know that kind of slip, and be careful because it can make you forget about all the bad. I remember this past fall I copped with my friend and we sniffed a few bags of really good dope and had a really chill time which made me forget about all the bad since it was one of those highs that you are usually chasing when getting high, and since it was with a good friend rather than me shooting up alone that social aspect made it even better, but honestly how often do you get those good highs as opposed to the shitty ones that you get while alone that make you depressed about what you are doing?

I don't think it would hurt, the Soma are not very abusable. Tough to say though, I feel some doctors will get questionable if you start throwing out names of medications at them. Could be better to just say what is wrong and see where it leads. He might insist you try something else for sleep. Still its better than straight up asking for a benzo.

Speaking of Soma(carisoprodol), I find it odd that there is no wikipedia page for it.



The only thing I can think a higher dose would help with is discouraging you from using. Because once you pop 4+ mg upon waking up, its pointless to get high that day. But at 2 mg or less you know by late evening that it might be a little dulled, but you'll feel it pretty well.

I wouldn't say that soma isn't very abusable. I know a few people that got bad habits from that and it's not pretty. They get really shaky on it and one guy would get 'stuck' just sitting there unable to move or respond (I believe it was an acute dystonic reaction) yet his hands and arms would be shaky. He also got 'grimace' where his face was just stuck with this look of disgust stuck on his mug.

 

[bukweat]

Subs are such an atypical drug. The withdrawals aren't full blown like with h or oxys or methadone. But the paws seem to hang around forever. I jumped at .5mg and even after two months I'll wake and have nausea. I have to keep telling myself this will pass in time

Boston I'm concerned that your going to lull yourself back into a habit.

 

[bukweat]

Subs are such an atypical drug. The withdrawals aren't full blown like with h or oxys or methadone. But the paws seem to hang around forever. I jumped at .5mg and even after two months I'll wake and have nausea. I have to keep telling myself this will pass in time

Boston I'm concerned that your going to lull yourself back into a habit.

 

[RTrain]

I wouldn't say that soma isn't very abusable. I know a few people that got bad habits from that and it's not pretty. They get really shaky on it and one guy would get 'stuck' just sitting there unable to move or respond (I believe it was an acute dystonic reaction) yet his hands and arms would be shaky. He also got 'grimace' where his face was just stuck with this look of disgust stuck on his mug.

Oh jeez, that doesn't sound like fun. Well maybe the doctor won't think of it as abusable, if the only concern is getting a script for it.

I feel a lot better now today...With sub, its not really the dose so much as how long it takes to stabilize...A lot of people think its the dose, and that's why everyone takes so much...

I've tried taking higher doses in hopes that it would help, but it doesn't really do much...dose matters to an extent, of course....

Every time I've slipped up and done dope in the few years since I quit, its really fucked me up and made me actually think there was something else wrong with me! But then, I finally start to feel better and realize its the just the drugs!

I've always been able to deal with it, but as I get on into my thirties, It seems to get more difficult....Sure age plays a part in it, but my body is so used to heroin, its amazing how just a few days on heroin, going back on sub is almost as hard as if I had been using for a few years!

Yeah I will dose around 8 mg a day hoping it helps and nothing past the initial 2 mg really does much of anything. Its just something you gotta deal with and you are better off just sucking it up and dosing low because its just a waste to take more, though when suffering w/d your mind is thinking too clearly. It does really suck how a few days and you feel like you are back to square one with getting re-stabilized on the damn things. And if you are gonna have a vacation from them its likely you want to use for a few days at least, but then you pay the price, which sucks.

Boston I'm concerned that your going to lull yourself back into a habit.

I will say that every time I fell back on H after using Subs for anything more than 2 weeks (except the 1 time I managed to taper off Subs and stayed off opiates for almost 2 months) I have followed a similar pattern. First I would just use once with the intention of just cheating for that day. Then I'd do it 1 or 2 more times, probably a week spaced out. Soon I'd try to push it a little farther, maybe 2 days, then start to feel sick a little sick even with the Subs. At this point I was basically screwed each each time it got to that point. The "slip ups" (if you want to call them that) get longer and less spaced out.

Hes been on Subs for a lot longer than I ever have, though, so maybe there lies an advantage in getting back to them. But its a slippery slope for anyone when you are chipping. There is definitely no way to sit here and make it seem like a step in the right direction, it most certainly a big one in the wrong direction.

 

[PKPro]

I've tried taking higher doses in hopes that it would help, but it doesn't really do much...

this. This is so true ime, it's all about stabilization and giving the bupe a chance to settle in. After a certain point it's a mind game, mind over matter. The strong willed will be more successful in this aspect, and it's something I'm working towards, each day it gets better and easier to push out the evil thoughts of that needle filled with the golden elixir of bliss.

I've never had any of the issues described above regarding soma... Guess it depends on a persons body chemistry... (I've done my fair share of soma while potentiating my opiate buzz along with good ol' promethazine...)

 

[BlueHues]

^Ha, yeah...eventually you just keep doing dope and the Sub script just sits there collecting dust...You tell yourself that you'll get back on the subs and off the dope soon, but I've logged years being prescribed sub's without ever touching them! I used to take just a sliver before the appt...just in case I got tested so I had bupe in my system...

Eventually, I just ended up selling them all....but I have no insurance now, so I actually pay more at the pharmacy than they're worth on the street!

I always found that ironic about bupe...It's actually cheaper on the street!

 

[Jabberwocky]

I know that kind of slip, and be careful because it can make you forget about all the bad. I remember this past fall I copped with my friend and we sniffed a few bags of really good dope and had a really chill time which made me forget about all the bad since it was one of those highs that you are usually chasing when getting high, and since it was with a good friend rather than me shooting up alone that social aspect made it even better, but honestly how often do you get those good highs as opposed to the shitty ones that you get while alone that make you depressed about what you are doing?

never, dude. thats why I THINK I'm OK. I havent even taken a bupe today; last night around 3AM I woke up and still had about .25 left to blast. most people would go to bed but I just went to kitchen table and shot away; back into the bedroom, signed on Bluelight, chilled for 20 mins and nodded on out, ha. probably passed out anyway since it was 330AM and it was a full day of shooting. blows my mind a G and a half (yes, it was 1.5 yesterday) lasted me a whole day rather than just the little time it used to.

anyway, I remember those times where shit had me on the ground begging, crying, and life crumbling. those out weigh the ONE GOOD NIGHT I had. I"ll always remember my last OD and last psych ward, and last everything. life has done a complete 180 since and my new APT I love, so I cant be fucking around. 8MP bupe at 7AM tomorrow and im back on the bupe buss.

anyone know anyone who is capable of shooting ONCE A MONTH! picture that, its maybe 100-200/mo. you know how you have peeps that go out on weekends and spend that anyway, on alcohol, food, etc, so what if there was a way to use ONCE A FUCKING MONTH!

when you find that pill, keep me posted. until then, ill take the pill that KILLS that once a month thought. ha.