• Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

Status
Not open for further replies.
So what I gathering is that the few subs I have will make the wd's much easier or non existent?

There is no way to make withdrawals "non existent". One way or another, your body has to come off of something it is dependent too, even if at a low dose, and therefore you will experience withdrawals. It's all about how bad they will be and how long they will last, which is the point of maintenance meds and tapering.
 
Ok, So when I take the sub it's fooling my body to think I'm still taking the oxy? Right?

So what If i only take the sub for a very short time and don't get dependent on the sub all the while getting the oxy out of my system. That seems like the optimal way to do this. Also last time I quit I was messed up for a good month. with PAWS and lack of energy and for some reason my back had some bad spasms. Will this still happen?
 
the bupe is binding to the same receptarts that your oxy use to go to...it will keep you right for about 24hrs. u can tapper down slowly and not feel much of anything as far as withdrawl or if you do like most addicts(such as myself)...do the subs..then u find more dope and cant wait for the naloxone to wair off..i hope u have better will power than me...ive been prescribed suboxone for a year and 3 months..im down 1 strip a day...I know that sounds ridiculous and long..but when I lived in florida..my doctor wrote me 2 for everyday of the month..it was just another source of money to fund my heroin habbit. I recently moved to south Carolina and am realy trying to get right...I slip every once in a while but because of the naloxone..u don't feel the dope so u cant realy enjoy it..therefore u don't keep slipping day after day...........good luck and blessings to all of you trying to knock off the dope and do the suboxone thing.
 
^It's not "fooling" your body into thinking it's still on oxy. Opiates cause your body to stop producing natural endorphins after taking them regularly, this is why you experience withdrawal symptoms. When you stop using opiates, your body starts producing the natural endorphins again and you stop experiencing WD symptoms. Theoretically, you're body starts producing some endorphins again as you taper, but buprenorphine is an opioid that binds to the same receptors that oxycodone does, so even if you get all the oxy out of your system while taking the bupe, there will still be some lag time between stopping taking opioids altogether and your body fully producing all the natural endorphins.

A fast taper is probably the way to go, and the philosophy that you're working with will help to minimize your suffering, but the idea of being able to "fool" your body into not getting sick at all.....that's not really possible. If you haven't been using opiates for long and you use a taper augmented with other drugs and supplements, you may get off pretty lightly, but it varies from person to person and it's slightly different every time.
 
Just a little not about the doctor thing. Interestingly enough I have a surgeon in my IOP group and his wife is an MD, and he was saying that they barely learned anything about addiction in medical school. Now he's been practicing for 20 years so I'm sure that things have changed a little, but then again most Sub doctors are probably his age and older so they also went to school around the same time as him. He said they learned both about the disease aspect, and also the other side about just will power. He was joking around saying how they spend 16 weeks on statistics yet not even 16 hours on addiction. Then take into consideration the small amount of hours that doctors need to study addiction to be certified to be prescribed suboxone, and it's clear that it isn't really enough.

This isn't to discredit doctors or to tell anybody not to listen to them, it's just to say that you need to do your own research on these things rather than just blindly following your doctors orders. I was in the same boat as bluehues when first getting scripted suboxone in 2007 because I too was told that it didn't have any withdrawals so quickly went up to 32mg/day for "cravings" when I had a month clean before starting subs, and at the end I had the worst withdrawals and it ruined my tolerance (not that I should have been concerned with the tolerance part).

How long were you taking 32mg/day? This is kind of similar to my situation because I have been 2 months clean too before starting this treatment and my doctor is willing to prescribe me 32mg suboxone too for my depression...

how bad were withdrawals and was tolerance just ruined for suboxone or all opiates in general? I hope mine isn't ruined yet
 
I've been on Suboxone maintenance for almost a year now and I've been struggling with the same problem a lot of Suboxone patients struggle, I guess, for a few months now. At the beginning it really was a godsend. I went through an over 2-month withdrawal after tapering down methadone (which I had used for ~2.5 years). The withdrawal lasted and lasted, long story short I eventually landed on Suboxone, so I don't relapse on full agonists.

The problem with methadone was it'd been making me feel kind of empty, devoid of emotions, feelings, they were blunt, and I felt as if my head was in the fog / cloudy. It'd been making me depressed more and more, and somehow when I probably couldn't go deeper into that apathy, I decided to get off. Once I got on Suboxone, it again proved to be a useful tool for low mood and lack of motivation (I previously used buprenorphine with no naloxone on my own). And it really made me not think about shooting up morphine unlike methadone. For like 2 months... In the past I didn't really know why it stopped working, I didn't really know what was happening. But now I can see that after 10 months on Suboxone I'm progressing into a phase similar to that of methadone. It's definitely milder, I don't feel like a mentally handicapped moron, because I've got plenty of ideas, yet they're all sick and paranoid at times. At times I do have energy, but it's some negative energy as if it were meant for me to eventually destroy myself with all the hatred that has grown inside me. I'm again feeling empty and I can see where this is going.

Methadone-like stagnation, but with buprenorphine I can't even sedate myself, taking more Suboxone does end with some kind of a "nod", I once accidentally took a high unknown amount of this shit throughout 48 hours, and I ended up falling asleep while taking a shower. After an hour my mum knocked on the door, I woke up, started vomiting... I don't even want to imagine fatally overdosing on this. With methadone I could drink more syrup, maybe take more benzodiazepines, and maybe smoke some weed, and it did something, it chilled me out, spaced out if I needed that. Now I'm at 2-4mg of bupe as Suboxone (s.l. with alcohol) and I still can get terrible headaches and boneaches, and nothing helps. I often get nauseous, I can't sleep, I can go for 2-3 days with no sleep and I take no stimulants. I even fooled around with melatonin and lemon balm to get no results, of course. But that's nothing compared to the inner uneasiness, anxiety mixed with some undefined fear, and flying into rages all the time right after getting up when I eventually get some unsatisfying sleep. When I was in England this Summer, I once took some dihydrocodeine to help myself with these boneaches. And guess what, two regular pills added to 2mg Suboxone worked much better than taking enormous doses of this shit. I hate it and you can't imagine how much I hate it, you can't imagine how I hate almost everything about my life right now. I hate this artificial feeling Suboxone now produces for me. I'm tired of feeling cold, getting goosebumps all the time, shivers, and pain of course.

And the scariest part for me is I have no idea how to get off this thing. I just can't taper it down. I stop at 2mg all the time. When I make it at 1mg for one day, on the second day I know this is too heavy and there is nothing to help myself. Aspirin, ketoprofen, you may laugh - nothing works but marijuana which I don't have money for at the moment here in Poland accidentally. But it miraculously works for it all - pain, nausea, insomnia. Anyway, this is not how I'm imagining dealing with life for the rest of my life, for God's sake. I can't sort anything out in my life now and soon it may be again too late to do anything, and I might get kicked out of the uni again, especially when I have no faith in what I do. I even thought of getting back to the roots, dissociatives. I mean going really deep with ketamine or something stronger to find "true" myself, but it rather seems more desperate than reasonable thinking to me. But I can't imagine doing through a hell similar to that from a year ago after quitting methadone. The only way of getting off buprenorphine is now for me obviously a full agonist opioid, no second thoughts, straight into my bloodstream, so I can be cured again, so I can feel my body is warm again, so I can get rid of constant headaches and paranoias.

I guess this is not how Suboxone maintenance brings you back to life. :/ I don't expect anyone to go deep with thoughts with my ranting. I just needed to make it all material, at least on my computer screen. Just so you all future Suboxone/Subutex miraculous survivors know that this leads to the apathy composed the same as methadone's if you're not lucky with your philosophy or whatever drives your will and power to live successfully.

PS. I know it may all be nonsense, but I haven't slept for some time now.
 
Last edited:
How long were you taking 32mg/day? This is kind of similar to my situation because I have been 2 months clean too before starting this treatment and my doctor is willing to prescribe me 32mg suboxone too for my depression...

how bad were withdrawals and was tolerance just ruined for suboxone or all opiates in general? I hope mine isn't ruined yet

Hmmm, I sold a decent amount so rarely took the 32mg/day (probably did 7 days out of the month though), and usually took 16mg/day. This was for 18 months and I stopped without tapering and the withdrawals were worse than any dope kick I've ever done. Over two months later I got a hold of morphine and needed 300mg to get me right, and my tolerance to oxy was around 90mg after all that time, and never really got below that.

The equivalency chart has 1mg suboxone = 30mg oxycodone, so it's no wonder tolerance is so high, although the ceiling effect cuts it off well below the doses most people are at. I would say that the highest dose of oxy that you can be on and the switch to suboxone be painless is in the low to mid 200's which would have the ceiling dose around 6mg for me, which is close to what Cane said.
 
Yes! I've been using tramadol for months now. It all began after a drastic bupe reduction 32mgs to 12 mgs; I wasn't dope sick in the traditional sense, but I really wasn't handling it well. I took 300mg doses of tramadol and it really helped me a lot; I got sub-euphoric, with those good-old codeine "warm and fuzzies"...everybody told me it was merely in my head, but I know it was the tramadol. I've tapered to 50mg per day with no trouble, and am keeping a stockpile of it to ease my upcoming sub detox. (Whifh won't be easy-I've been on it for 8 years.) Why is it I can get high on it, considering bupes powerful blocking effect? I don't think the snri in tramadol could explain it; I'm on ssris, and I'd say my serotonin levels are about normal. It's very strange...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Alright, I've been on 10mg since a week now, finally have all of my privileges (works like methadone here ugh), but at least its just one visit at the pharmacy a week, unless i got some stuff to renew, but then I abuse the free delivery service tons, I felt abused having to walk for my methadone all winter on non privilege days.

At 10mg it is perfect and yes, if I use 2 shots of listerine to clean my mouth real well, then just push in a tiny bit under my tongue and put the 8mg and 2mg pill in there, I do feel a difference...I feel really opiated this morning much more than I should, it's not very euphoric but it is noddy and relaxing.

I'm not gonna increase the BA like this all the time as I want off it, I have an appnt with my neurologist in november (probably the longest to see specialists of all here) and I have a LOT of things to get off my chest at that old man who caused me to appreciate opiate painkilling, and having him take it away like that, well not really, but he would give me 1 script of Oxy IR 5mg or Codeine Contins 200mg twice a day which was well enough for me, but it would only have 1 refill and sometimes no refill and he NEVER as a policy renew any script for pain by phone...and it takes 4-5 months to see him if you take an appnt, as you can all see. He's the reason I went black market for my legit pain issue. And now that the negotiations with pharmacists and the government failed, it's gonna take more time still for them to be able to renew a script, of any kind, when they know you cannot see a doctor for a while. Fucking dumb pharmacists, they wanted to charge people for that, when already 2 other provinces have this system working and it goes with our global insurance.

But yeah, this is miraculous, I just wish I hadn't chosen methadone at first, I was convinced to go for it for the pain killing...now I gotta shoot (SC) testosterone in me once a week and the cortisol issue also caused by methadone is left in the air, the endocrinology clinic says they have my name but no time to call me and give me an appnt yet. Canada is sometimes ahead of other nation or nation-bodies but us getting bupe only 2 years ago is retarded.
 
But anyhow I'm sure the sub will make stopping way easier than no sub?? Is that correct?

its not as completely straightforward as that. I switched from ah7921 to Bupe for the intention of quitting opiates. But i enjoyed bupe so much i went on a 2 month party spree with it and raised my tolerance. It just floods you with a feeling of wellness, so trying to cut down when you have 'the cure' that long term isnt a cure right infront of you, requires a lot of strength, both mental and physical.

Im finding i cant face the pain every day, so am trying alternate days of lowered dose. Im down from uncounted amounts to being OK on 3mg. I feel rough on 2mg but hopefully my body will soon get used to just 2mg and then i can stop the 3mg doses, or try 2.5. I really am a fuckin woose though and cant stand suffering or pain. Im trying to make it as painless as possible. I think there is a way out using subs, but its not a walk in the park by any means.

I didnt get on a managed or supervised sub withdrawal program, so having to source them yourself, and only yourself to control the use, makes it harder, when its so easy to give in. You have to push on through the shit to get anywhere.
 
Last edited:
suboxone works on depression too.
I feel it should be prescribed for treatment resistant depression.
I love what suboxone has done for my life.
it gave me one.
 
Yes it works brilliantly as a mood lifter but you could develop a tolerance so that the initial dose is no longer effective, and your body will have stopped producing its own feel good chemicals, so you could need an ever increasing dose. There must be a reason why Bupe isnt prescribed for depression, because you're certainly right that it works for treating it. The reason is that the stuff is so prone to abuse.

Freud found that prescribing Cocaine to his patients lifted their depression. He didnt forsee the tolerance, addiction, and abuse issues.
 
^ I just wanted to point out that as a partial agonist with incredible binding affinity but low activity, buprenorphine actually has a very low ceiling dose for it's agonism so increasing the dose past a couple milligrams won't increase the benefits, only the blockade effect it has on other opioids.

I'm right with you regarding the drawbacks of prescribing something like this for clinical psychiatric disorders but I think such options should be on the table for the most severe, treatment-resistant populations. The only problem with this is that if you get formal FDA clearance to treat say Major Depressive Disorder then you have a thousand Reckitt Benckiser reps giving free samples to every GP who will agree to a free lunch and everyone who has had a bad day and sees their doctor walks about with a sample of a drug indicated to replace heroin in addicts.
 
suboxone works on depression too.
I feel it should be prescribed for treatment resistant depression.
I love what suboxone has done for my life.
it gave me one.

agreed. been on it for almost 3 weeks now at 16-24mg doses (now trying to lower after seeing this thread lol) and it has made great improvements on lowering my anxiety and giving me the energy and motivation out of my depression

Hmmm, I sold a decent amount so rarely took the 32mg/day (probably did 7 days out of the month though), and usually took 16mg/day. This was for 18 months and I stopped without tapering and the withdrawals were worse than any dope kick I've ever done. Over two months later I got a hold of morphine and needed 300mg to get me right, and my tolerance to oxy was around 90mg after all that time, and never really got below that.

The equivalency chart has 1mg suboxone = 30mg oxycodone, so it's no wonder tolerance is so high, although the ceiling effect cuts it off well below the doses most people are at. I would say that the highest dose of oxy that you can be on and the switch to suboxone be painless is in the low to mid 200's which would have the ceiling dose around 6mg for me, which is close to what Cane said.


Wow lol. That is kind of sad that after so long you still needed incredible doses. Don't think I will ever go back to dope now lol... which is a good thing too I guess.
 
The only problem with this is that if you get formal FDA clearance to treat say Major Depressive Disorder then you have a thousand Reckitt Benckiser reps giving free samples to every GP who will agree to a free lunch and everyone who has had a bad day and sees their doctor walks about with a sample of a drug indicated to replace heroin in addicts.

^That would be quite the scenario! And of course it would make the normal, non-addict population with depression feel better.....It's opiates for God's sake! Of course RB and the doctors prescribing it would completely downplay the whole physical dependence thing and you'd have people getting physically addicted to detox/maintenance drug that never even had a drug problem before in their lives.

I guess the question is:

Do the positive effects in treating depression outweigh the physical addiction and other side-effects of buprenorphine?

I think it actually may.
 
^ I wonder what dose they would start those people on, probably would have to make a lower dosage or bring temgesic here since 0.2mg is probably the highest dose a person that hasn't taken opioids before could handle at first while still being functional.

To those that say that suboxone works with depression, I again direct you to one of Canes previous posts where he discusses how PAWS may be responsible for the depression and/or anxiety that a lot of people feel after they quit taking opiates/opioids, which is part of the dilemma that a lot of people face when deciding if they want to be medicated or not in early recovery. If the depression is caused by PAWS then of course it will subside with the re-introduction of a drug in the same class as your DOC, and if it's not caused by PAWS the mood-lifting ability of it will still work on you which should help with depression too.

I think the real question is whether this type of treatment if sustainable in the long-run. A lot of people feel that suboxone looses its magic after a while (1 year seems to be a common theme) and some even feel that it turns on them, which is why I personally don't think it's good for treating chronic depression. The other reason is that it has bad withdrawals and PAWS so if it stops working after a while you are going to be in bad shape after getting off of it, and the depression will be that much worse. Then you are back to square one wondering if you should try other meds for depression or if you should just wait it out to see if it was just PAWS.
 
Last edited:
adder perhaps there's a deeper issue, lingering depression or mania or something that's causing your symptoms? please don't take offense, but some of the things you mentioned were concerning and don't sound as simple as side effects. i hope you find something that works for you one way or another.
 
Suboxone's antidepressant effects aren't just a result of removing PAWS for me. So far, I feel better and more functional on it then I was before when I never even tried opiates. I have struggled with depression/anxiety before, and self-medicated with heroin. My depression/anxiety isn't so much PAWS related but more so something I've had before opiates. This is a great alternative imo and the energy boost and uplifting feeling is great.
 
Suboxone's antidepressant effects aren't just a result of removing PAWS for me. So far, I feel better and more functional on it then I was before when I never even tried opiates. I have struggled with depression/anxiety before, and self-medicated with heroin. My depression/anxiety isn't so much PAWS related but more so something I've had before opiates. This is a great alternative imo and the energy boost and uplifting feeling is great.

It worked best for me at 2mg, but my symptoms were probably PAWS related and that 2mg was enough to tickle my opioid receptors enough to take away the symptoms. When I got above the 2-3mg range I felt the drug too much, and I don't particularly like the feeling of a big dose of suboxone so I like to stay low. The 2mg was perfect for that since it took away the symptoms yet didn't really alter my mind at all aside from not feeling as shitty. Also no side effects at that dose, whereas I got a lot at higher doses (diminished sex drive, constipation, anxiety, head aches, and tired in the morning, wired at night).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top