Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v.4 The Orangeman Cometh

[Man67]

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but highly unlikely on both counts
your senses being familiar with full agonists you may feel a little tickle at first but will fade into oblivion

Possibly a little anti depressant effect after months of nothing

Exactly.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I take 90mg morphine a day but since I don't have a prescription it is burning a hole in my pocket. There's these TRANSTEC 20mg patches of bupe that last a week. I suffer from chronic pain but also want a bit of euphoria/some sort of antidepressant effects. Is there a buzz from bupe at such low doses? And how good it Is for pain?
Tyvm in advance.

Yes of course.

But it depends on many things.
Do you have a current tolerance to morphine & full agonists?
If so, then all you're going to get is some withdrawal relief from buprenorphine.
If you have low to no tolerance currently though, then yes, you will get high/antidepressant effects from bupe at low doses.
It won't be the in the your face, totally blissed out feeling that you get on full agonists though.

And the pain relief is a lot more subpar than full agonists, but it's there in some aspects. You can up the dose for more pain relief too, but the higher you go, the more you risk blocking other opioids for atleast 48hrs.

I've seen people with no tolerance completely nodding & puking their guts out on as low as .5mg of bupe for over 12hrs.
It's a potent, but less euphoric partial agonist & I think you'll be disappointed with it. But it's nice to have around for withdrawal purposes or a rainy day.
I'll always prefer full agonists, but I'd say buprenorphine is an OK opioid for when you wanna just stay stable & save your money, etc..

On a scale, If heroin was a 10 and codeine was 1, I'd place buprenorphine at about maybe a 3 or 4 as far as pain relief/recreation goes.

 

[nznity]

Yes of course.

But it depends on many things.
Do you have a current tolerance to morphine & full agonists?
If so, then all you're going to get is some withdrawal relief from buprenorphine.
If you have low to no tolerance currently though, then yes, you will get high/antidepressant effects from bupe at low doses.
It won't be the in the your face, totally blissed out feeling that you get on full agonists though.

And the pain relief is a lot more subpar than full agonists, but it's there in some aspects. You can up the dose for more pain relief too, but the higher you go, the more you risk blocking other opioids for atleast 48hrs.

I've seen people with no tolerance completely nodding & puking their guts out on as low as .5mg of bupe for over 12hrs.
It's a potent, but less euphoric partial agonist & I think you'll be disappointed with it. But it's nice to have around for withdrawal purposes or a rainy day.
I'll always prefer full agonists, but I'd say buprenorphine is an OK opioid for when you wanna just stay stable & save your money, etc..

On a scale, If heroin was a 10 and codeine was 1, I'd place buprenorphine at about maybe a 3 or 4 as far as pain relief/recreation goes.

I'm fucked up then, I've been an IV user for years. My tolerance rn is low, but im no newbie to opiates. My guess is, I'd probably feel it for a couple days and then just wd relief. Mhmmm, still it's an option tho. Perhaps I could try one patch and see how it goes.

 

[deficiT]

I'm fucked up then, I've been an IV user for years. My tolerance rn is low, but im no newbie to opiates. My guess is, I'd probably feel it for a couple days and then just wd relief. Mhmmm, still it's an option tho. Perhaps I could try one patch and see how it goes.

Hate to be the one to say it man, but if you've got an IV morphine habit that bad, I would try and just get stable on a maintenance med for a bit. It does kind of ease the pain of withdrawal if done right. But that stable feeling is actually nice in a sense after going months/years however long with the up/down well/sick lifestyle that comes to being addicted to opioids.

I found it eventually still became a crutch for me that I still didn't want. I tapered off completely and was opioid free for a while. But now I've been back to dosing kratom somewhat regularly. It's a difficult line to walk man, being an opioid addict.

 

[nznity]

Hate to be the one to say it man, but if you've got an IV morphine habit that bad, I would try and just get stable on a maintenance med for a bit. It does kind of ease the pain of withdrawal if done right. But that stable feeling is actually nice in a sense after going months/years however long with the up/down well/sick lifestyle that comes to being addicted to opioids.

I found it eventually still became a crutch for me that I still didn't want. I tapered off completely and was opioid free for a while. But now I've been back to dosing kratom somewhat regularly. It's a difficult line to walk man, being an opioid addict.

It's either that or kratom. I found a couple kratom vendors in my country. What about thst? If it's any good, which kratom color should I go for? I want the most sedative/better for pain one, I heard the red one is the best for that.

 

[nznity]

Hate to be the one to say it man, but if you've got an IV morphine habit that bad, I would try and just get stable on a maintenance med for a bit. It does kind of ease the pain of withdrawal if done right. But that stable feeling is actually nice in a sense after going months/years however long with the up/down well/sick lifestyle that comes to being addicted to opioids.

I found it eventually still became a crutch for me that I still didn't want. I tapered off completely and was opioid free for a while. But now I've been back to dosing kratom somewhat regularly. It's a difficult line to walk man, being an opioid addict.

Which kratom strain do u recommend? I'm about to buy 100g tomorrow, first time I'm gonna try it after all these years. I'm not iving rn, I USED to and ocasionally do the ODD shot but I'm currently stuck on 90mg morphine pills. It's drilling a hole on my pocket tho, that's y I'm asking for alternatives. I'm looking at either bupe or kratom to get off the morph for a while.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm fucked up then, I've been an IV user for years. My tolerance rn is low, but im no newbie to opiates. My guess is, I'd probably feel it for a couple days and then just wd relief. Mhmmm, still it's an option tho. Perhaps I could try one patch and see how it goes.

Yeah it can't hurt to at least give it a shot!
The low doses in the patches won't block any other opioids either, so you won't have to worry about that. That way if you decide bupe isn't for you, you can go back to full agonists.

Keep in mind though that like 0.02mcg of buprenorphine is equivalent to like 10mg of morphine. So you could actually raise your tolerance to morphine if your bupe dose goes too high and for less effects. Bupe is extremely potent. 2mg is equal to like 80mg of oxycodone or some shit like that. Although it won't give the same level of pain relief as 80mg of oxycodone, it can still raise your tolerance to that level.

Also, buprenorphine is a kappa-antagonist. It's theorized that kappa antagonism can help with depression through blocking dynorphins, which are responsible for making you feel dysphoric & shitty. So if it's truly some anti-depressant effect you're after, you might be able to appreciate this quality, as most other opioids do not share this kaapa antagonism.

But you're right. I bet it'll feel alright for a day or two but after a few days, bupe will probably just make you feel tired, if that.
If your tolerance is low right now though, you might be able to enjoy it.

When I used bupe with low tolerance, it actually had me nodding hard. Even while standing up at work one day. lol
There were times I use to buy buprenorphine instead of heroin, cause it was cheaper & with no tolerance bupe can feel almost as good & keep you from feeling sick for longer.
But once you're used to it, it becomes one of the more boring & unreliable opioids.

Good luck man! Hope it works for you for your wallets sake!

 

[nznity]

Yeah it can't hurt to at least give it a shot!
The low doses in the patches won't block any other opioids either, so you won't have to worry about that. That way if you decide bupe isn't for you, you can go back to full agonists.

Keep in mind though that like 0.02mcg of buprenorphine is equivalent to like 10mg of morphine. So you could actually raise your tolerance to morphine if your bupe dose goes too high and for less effects. Bupe is extremely potent. 2mg is equal to like 80mg of oxycodone or some shit like that. Although it won't give the same level of pain relief as 80mg of oxycodone, it can still raise your tolerance to that level.

Also, buprenorphine is a kappa-antagonist. It's theorized that kappa antagonism can help with depression through blocking dynorphins, which are responsible for making you feel dysphoric & shitty. So if it's truly some anti-depressant effect you're after, you might be able to appreciate this quality, as most other opioids do not share this kaapa antagonism.

But you're right. I bet it'll feel alright for a day or two but after a few days, bupe will probably just make you feel tired, if that.
If your tolerance is low right now though, you might be able to enjoy it.

When I used bupe with low tolerance, it actually had me nodding hard. Even while standing up at work one day. lol
There were times I use to buy buprenorphine instead of heroin, cause it was cheaper & with no tolerance bupe can feel almost as good & keep you from feeling sick for longer.
But once you're used to it, it becomes one of the more boring & unreliable opioids.

Good luck man! Hope it works for you for your wallets sake!

I'm actually looking into kratom now, the red strains have caught my attention and it's even cheaper than bupe. I wanna get back on my feet and stabilize myself, like @deficiT said living on that rollercoaster of UP AND DOWN AND UP AND DOWN it gets quite tiresome. Until i can't reach a maintenance suitable dose of something I can't be productive or do my own shit. All my attention goes to how the fk am I gonna get money for the next pills. And tbh sobriety is not an option for me anymore, just hope kratom works.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm actually looking into kratom now, the red strains have caught my attention and it's even cheaper than bupe. I wanna get back on my feet and stabilize myself, like @deficiT said living on that rollercoaster of UP AND DOWN AND UP AND DOWN it gets quite tiresome. Until i can't reach a maintenance suitable dose of something I can't be productive or do my own shit. All my attention goes to how the fk am I gonna get money for the next pills. And tbh sobriety is not an option for me anymore, just hope kratom works.

Good luck with the kratom man!
I've never been able to get it to work. I mean it has effects for me.,but they never feel like "opioid" effects.
I've tried a million different brands, from organic online vendors to crappy headshop kratom. It has never done fuck all for me, even without a tolerance.
I've tried a kratom extract shot before & it definitely had some mild opioid effects, but I still couldn't see how it would totally satisfy a heavy opioid user.
And it was like $10-20 bucks for that 1 shot (which would get expensive quick for me) And I couldn't imagine having to down something that nasty tasting every 4hrs. lol
But everyone's different, so..

 

[nznity]

Good luck with the kratom man!
I've never been able to get it to work. I mean it has effects for me.,but they never feel like "opioid" effects.
I've tried a million different brands, from organic online vendors to crappy headshop kratom. It has never done fuck all for me, even without a tolerance.
I've tried a kratom extract shot before & it definitely had some mild opioid effects, but I still couldn't see how it would totally satisfy a heavy opioid user.
And it was like $10-20 bucks for that 1 shot (which would get expensive quick for me) And I couldn't imagine having to down something that nasty tasting every 4hrs. lol
But everyone's different, so..

I just want RELIEF at this point....I can bang up whenever I wanna get high.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I just want RELIEF at this point....I can bang up whenever I wanna get high.

Kratom has a pretty short half life though.
So if you're looking to get away from the up & down dosing, you're still gonna have to dose it every couple of hours.
And depending on what type of kratom you have, it can be disgusting choking back all that plant powder every few hours.
You'd probably have just been better off sticking with bupe due to it's long half life, if it's the ups & downs you're worried about.
But give it a shot.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Kratom has a pretty short half life though.
So if you're looking to get away from the up & down dosing, you're still gonna have to dose it every couple of hours.
And depending on what type of kratom you have, it can be disgusting choking back all that plant powder every few hours.
You'd probably have just been better off sticking with bupe due to it's long half life, if it's the ups & downs you're worried about.
But give it a shot.

Even kratom doesn’t last long that doesn’t mean you need to do it many times a day. You do if you want to be high all the time but it’s totally possible to take it once or twice a day an keep it that way.

Passing trough bupe WDs would be a thing first for sure. And it isn’t likely that bupe didn’t ruined it for a long time to come, but still might be worth trying.

As for your case where bupe ruined you high on tramadol. I think bupe ruins pretty much any other opiod in reasonable doses for a very long time even after you stop it. And it ruins other opiates very fast too, you don’t even need to get addicted to it.

 

[nznity]

Kratom has a pretty short half life though.
So if you're looking to get away from the up & down dosing, you're still gonna have to dose it every couple of hours.
And depending on what type of kratom you have, it can be disgusting choking back all that plant powder every few hours.
You'd probably have just been better off sticking with bupe due to it's long half life, if it's the ups & downs you're worried about.
But give it a shot.

Idc about the dosing, as long as I'm not sick. Red vein kratom
I actually meant more about the lifestyle of being stressed the fuck out about where to get the moneyfor the next fix, then ure high for a few days, then ure fucked up 3 days wding, then ur up again, then u fucked up again etc. THAT KINDA UP AND DOWN rollercoaster bullshit
I don't mind redosing 2-3 times a day and don't mind about the taste either. Nothing can taste worse than tramadol fucking drops.

 

[deficiT]

Idc about the dosing, as long as I'm not sick. Red vein kratom
I actually meant more about the lifestyle of being stressed the fuck out about where to get the moneyfor the next fix, then ure high for a few days, then ure fucked up 3 days wding, then ur up again, then u fucked up again etc. THAT KINDA UP AND DOWN rollercoaster bullshit
I don't mind redosing 2-3 times a day and don't mind about the taste either. Nothing can taste worse than tramadol fucking drops.

You say that now lol, most.people I've seen try and take kratom, even mixed in a beverage don't like it. They tend to like the effects though. I remember the first time I had kratom my opioid tolerance wasn't nearly as high, it felt like it had me nodding and everything.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Idc about the dosing, as long as I'm not sick. Red vein kratom
I actually meant more about the lifestyle of being stressed the fuck out about where to get the moneyfor the next fix, then ure high for a few days, then ure fucked up 3 days wding, then ur up again, then u fucked up again etc. THAT KINDA UP AND DOWN rollercoaster bullshit
I don't mind redosing 2-3 times a day and don't mind about the taste either. Nothing can taste worse than tramadol fucking drops.

Cool, sounds more like you just wanna disagree with any opinion I give, so do whatever you want.

Kratom's weaker than buprenorphine anyway, so if you didn't like bupe, don't expect much from kratom. Especially any "antidepressant" relief.
I mean you said at first you wanted antidepressant effects, now it's just 'withdrawal relief' & then it's because of the money, etc.... So which is it? Cause I think I touched all of those boxes anyway in my answers.

Unless kratom is free where you're at, you're just gonna be burning a hole in your pocket to stay well on that, when any given dose of buprenorphine can last 24-48hrs. You say you don't care about dosing, but you also say you don't wanna be burning a hole in your pocket by having to dose all the time. So both statements contradict each other & come off like you're just being condescending toward me.

I literally have bags & bags of kratom sitting around. If it actually did anything worth while, it wouldn't still be in my possession.

Kratom is literally so weak that it's still legal here in the US. If it was even comparable to genuine opioids, it would have been made illegal along time ago.

We went from, "Does buprenorphine cause a buzz/antidepressant effect" to "Oh I don't care about a buzz! I just want to get away from the up & down dosing" to "I don't care about dosing, I'm trying to save money!"......... Okay, you just sound like a dick really at this point. Especially considering I answered all of those "concerns" with what would be the better option.

Do whatever you want though, I don't care. I was just trying to be helpful. I mean you asked on a public forum lol And I have extensive experience with both. Kratom couldn't even keep me well in buprenorphine withdrawals, let a lone rid of me of depression. But if you think it'll help you with a full agonist, then all you can do is try for yourself anyway. Buprenorphine is more versatile in that you can get a buzz from it if you're having a bad day & really need one or you can just stay well with it & it's a good mood stabilizer if you suffer from severe depression. Kratom is too weak IME for a person with a love of full agonists to really enjoy it. Not to mention it's full of other NON-opioid alkaloids that you'll be feeling as well. Including opioids antagonists & dopamine blockers. Unless you stick with pure kratom extract. At least tramadol has an active full agonist metabolite & can last up to 8hrs, so it's worth the taste.

But if you'd rather gulp down grams & grams of plant powder every day, for less effects than you'd even get from tramadol or buprenorphine, then go for it!!! I encourage you to knock yourself out & form your own damn opinion. Instead of asking on a public forum & then treating the person who answers you, like they don't know what they're talking about. Again, good luck. Actually scratch that, I really don't give a shit.

 

[nznity]

Cool, sounds more like you just wanna disagree with any opinion I give, so do whatever you want.

Kratom's weaker than buprenorphine anyway, so if you didn't like bupe, don't expect much from kratom. Especially any "antidepressant" relief.
I mean you said at first you wanted antidepressant effects, now it's just 'withdrawal relief' & then it's because of the money, etc.... So which is it? Cause I think I touched all of those boxes anyway in my answers.

Unless kratom is free where you're at, you're just gonna be burning a hole in your pocket to stay well on that, when any given dose of buprenorphine can last 24-48hrs. You say you don't care about dosing, but you also say you don't wanna be burning a hole in your pocket by having to dose all the time. So both statements contradict each other & come off like you're just being condescending toward me.

I literally have bags & bags of kratom sitting around. If it actually did anything worth while, it wouldn't still be in my possession.

Kratom is literally so weak that it's still legal here in the US. If it was even comparable to genuine opioids, it would have been made illegal along time ago.

We went from, "Does buprenorphine cause a buzz/antidepressant effect" to "Oh I don't care about a buzz! I just want to get away from the up & down dosing" to "I don't care about dosing, I'm trying to save money!"......... Okay, you just sound like a dick really at this point. Especially considering I answered all of those "concerns" with what would be the better option.

Do whatever you want though, I don't care. I was just trying to be helpful. I mean you asked on a public forum lol And I have extensive experience with both. Kratom couldn't even keep me well in buprenorphine withdrawals, let a lone rid of me of depression. But if you think it'll help you with a full agonist, then all you can do is try for yourself anyway. Buprenorphine is more versatile in that you can get a buzz from it if you're having a bad day & really need one or you can just stay well with it & it's a good mood stabilizer if you suffer from severe depression. Kratom is too weak IME for a person with a love of full agonists to really enjoy it. Not to mention it's full of other NON-opioid alkaloids that you'll be feeling as well. Including opioids antagonists & dopamine blockers. Unless you stick with pure kratom extract. At least tramadol has an active full agonist metabolite & can last up to 8hrs, so it's worth the taste.

But if you'd rather gulp down grams & grams of plant powder every day, for less effects than you'd even get from tramadol or buprenorphine, then go for it!!! I encourage you to knock yourself out & form your own damn opinion. Instead of asking on a public forum & then treating the person who answers you, like they don't know what they're talking about. Again, good luck. Actually scratch that, I really don't give a shit.

Wow, chill man. Don't take it too personally Bupe is not an option anyway for me, I went to the dr and they don't want to prescribe it to me.
Btw, TLDR

 

[JackARoe]

Kratom is literally so weak that it's still legal here in the US. If it was even comparable to genuine opioids, it would have been made illegal along time ago.

If we were still living in Reagan's America in the 1980's kratom would have been declared a "narcotic" and outlawed just like cannabis. But natural substances are harder to make illegal. I think the AKA's presence, the fentanyl crisis, and yes the fact that kratom is not too strong (I would not say weak though) is why it is still legal. Also money talks. Didn't Thailand undo the illegality of kratom too? (not sure)

I do know people that thought kratom was too weak for them for sure. It worked for me to keep me clean. I latched onto regular powdered leaf and made it work. Opiate effects compared to say oxycodone are weaker, but the pain killing effect can be pronounced. In fact ibuprofen and kratom mixed works better than 20 mgs of oxycodone for me. But I started this last round with zero opiate tolerance, did not use it to stop other opiates so I don't have lingering withdrawal from a stronger opiate.

Now saying all that I have yet to try bupe. Never once. In my younger days the only option was methadone. Makes me wonder if bupe was a treatment in the 1980's. I do not recall being offered it or anyone that was on it then. Just methadone.

Once I do finally try bupe I will start with like .5 mgs. I will act as if it is very strong and not overdo. I read the stories of opiate naive people taking a few milligrams and it was too much. While I never want to go on bupe for any long term I still want to try it. I do have a kratom tolerance so that should help it not be too strong.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

If we were still living in Reagan's America in the 1980's kratom would have been declared a "narcotic" and outlawed just like cannabis. But natural substances are harder to make illegal. I think the AKA's presence, the fentanyl crisis, and yes the fact that kratom is not too strong (I would not say weak though) is why it is still legal. Also money talks. Didn't Thailand undo the illegality of kratom too? (not sure)

I do know people that thought kratom was too weak for them for sure. It worked for me to keep me clean. I latched onto regular powdered leaf and made it work. Opiate effects compared to say oxycodone are weaker, but the pain killing effect can be pronounced. In fact ibuprofen and kratom mixed works better than 20 mgs of oxycodone for me. But I started this last round with zero opiate tolerance, did not use it to stop other opiates so I don't have lingering withdrawal from a stronger opiate.

Now saying all that I have yet to try bupe. Never once. In my younger days the only option was methadone. Makes me wonder if bupe was a treatment in the 1980's. I do not recall being offered it or anyone that was on it then. Just methadone.

Once I do finally try bupe I will start with like .5 mgs. I will act as if it is very strong and not overdo. I read the stories of opiate naive people taking a few milligrams and it was too much. While I never want to go on bupe for any long term I still want to try it. I do have a kratom tolerance so that should help it not be too strong.

I mean, cannabis, psylocybin, opium, mescaline, are all natural substances that are illegal. So I'm not sure what you mean by 'natural substances are harder to make illegal'. Cause they had no problem making all those things illegal & I'm sure there's plenty more. They're unable to patent natural substances though.

I think kratom survived here in the US due to people rallying against the FDA/gov when they tried to ban it (which shows it does help some people), but also due to the fact that it's incredibly weak & you can't really fatally OD on it.

Buprenorphine is technically 40x stronger than heroin & morphine even, if we were to speak of potency. It may not have the same full receptor agonism that heroin or morphine has, but it will attach to the receptors a lot tighter & can agonize way more receptors at once than heroin or morphine do. For example, at like 16mg of bupe, all of your bodies opioid receptors are completely covered. But if your receptors were completely covered in a full agonist, you'd be dead.
So definitely don't underestimate how potent buprenorphine is.

I would start with even less than .5mg if you try it & give it 2hrs to peak & if you feel you need more, then you could add more.

Years & years ago when I first tried buprenorphine, I only had a tolerance to tramadol (which is stronger than kratom & is a full agonist) and even just .5mg of buprenorphine had me nodding so hard that I couldn't even stand at work without looking like I was about to pass out every few seconds.

Buprenorphine is not really a drug you wanna jump from kratom to. It would be like doing a weak line of ritalin & them jumping on meth to solve your ritalin problem. People with little to no tolerance can technically OD on buprenorphine. Usually a non-fatal OD, as in bupe is so strong that you might even just spend the 12hrs after taking it, puking & wishing you hadn't taken it. So definitely be careful there. If you wanna try something stronger than kratom, I'd go with tramadol or hydrocodone if you can find it. Or if you're severely addicted to kratom & want off of it, then bupe might be able to help some one like that. But I'm not joking when I say going from kratom to bupe is a pretty huge leap. People assume that just because bupe is a partial agonist & doesn't provide much euphoria, that it's "weak". But it can be just as strong, if not stronger than any other opioid, including the side effects, it just won't feel as good as if you took a full agonist.

For example, like 4mg of buprenorphine is equal to like hundreds of milligrams of oxycodone. It will never give the same high as hundreds of mgs of oxycodone, but it's still going to give you a similar dependence to that much oxy & also raise your tolerance. So if you use bupe, you can probably say goodbye to any effects you're getting out of kratom. I knew some one who only had a 20mg a day oxycodone habit & they started taking 4mg of bupe everyday for it, which honestly was probably overkill & only increased his opioid dependence, not helped it.

I just can't in good faith recommend somebody with a kratom habit do buprenorphine. But I also might just be making assumptions here & maybe you have a lot of history with full agonists too, I dunno. But bupe is too strong for people with only kratom history & not as enjoyable as other opioids. But everyone can make their own decisions. If you do use bupe, just keep in mind it's crazy potency!!! I don't think having a kratom tolerance is gonna matter much. Buprenorphine doesn't always exhibit total cross tolerance either. For example, I've had buprenorphine put me down for a nap, even after a several day heroin binge one time. Theoretically bupe shouldn't have done shit other than help withdrawal after using heroin for a few days, but it still sedated me & put me to bed because of the cross tolerance issue.

In the pamphlet I always got with my suboxone, it always mentioned about a girl who died from a mere 2mg of suboxone and nothing else. So having little to no tolerance to bupe & messing with it can be risky. You're less likely to OD on bupe though once you have a tolerance to it or full agonists.

I think buprenorphine was around in the 80's, but it was mostly used as a painkiller in Europe in microdoses. And then in the early 2000s, they approved high doses for addiction/maintenance here in the US.

Anyway, I don't wanna sound like an overly concerned mother here though. lol

But people should definitely remember....
If you have little to no tolerance = buprenorphine is going to be hella strong, even dangerously so, probably make you sick even if you dose too high
If you have a tolerance (to full agonists) or even dabbled with them on & off = bupe is just going to keep you mildly well & will be underwhelming


Be safe BL'ers!

 

[Genedefekt1985]

Old Thread Here

What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:




Other Notes:

• Bupe is CIII in the US.
• Metabolized by CYP3A4(see potentiation thread for potentiators).
• Half-life: 37 hours.
• Drug tests: Not detected by regular 5 panel tests.
• A interesting thread by 'medicine cabinet' about a new version of Suboxone that's currently being tested can be found here.
• Buprenorphine gets metabolized into norbuprenorphine and into conjugated buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine.
• Severe opiate withdrawal in a heroin user precipitated by a massive buprenorphine dose
• Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction. -courtesy of thugpassion
• Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.
  Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541906
. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.

Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.

Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.

Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.

Suboxone Mega Thread Directory - Other links about buprenorphine in Other Drugs

Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use**
Buprenex - should I IM or IV?
Buprenorphine and Antihistamine IV FAQ
Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?
Buprenorphine dosages commonly prescribed are unnecessarily high
Buprenorphine for depression?
Buprenorphine patches
Buprenorphine withdrawals?
Ketoconazole Potenation of Suboxone
Mephedrone and Buprenorphine
Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ - How to Micron Filter Suboxone
Nasal Administration of Suboxone - Issues
Rectal (Plugging) Buprenorphine
Suboxone in place of Naloxone in the event of an opiate overdose*
Suboxone sublingual film official thread
Subutex has gone generic
Tramadol and Suboxone

Discussion in the Suboxone mega thread goes along quite quickly, so we have a few other threads to promote intermediate/advanced discussion of buprenorphine and its formulations. These threads are meant to divert some of the more advanced discussion that otherwise becomes buried in the mega thread.

If there's another link you think which would go well in this list of related buprenorphine threads, please let me know. We're trying to reserve extra threads on buprenorphine for more intermediary/advanced discussion mostly to reserve the mega thread for a place for questions that can be answered quickly, and the other threads for a place for questions which will otherwise not get the same discussion going on in the mega thread, due to its quick pace.

If you have an idea for a new thread on buprenorphine, it's probably best to figure out by talking to a moderator first to see if it's thread worthy or should be discussed in the mega thread.

*Not Advised. Opiate antagonists are the only safe thing to do in case of an opiate overdose. Please do not give people Suboxone if they have overdosed.
**also known as "6/7's method" or "SixPartSeven's method"

Thank you for all your hard work over the years compiling this information... RIP Captain.Heroin

w/ love
- @deficiT

Can anyone help me out here. I have been on 16mg sublingual buprenorphine now for around 6, 7 weeks.

WTF did the doctor put me on such I high level for when I was just messin around now and again with snorting bupe, bit of oramorph, lots of tramadol, codeine, in my past smoked heroin but never got reeled in and the final one that made me cry for help was taking maybe like 300-500mg of dihydrocodeine from which I had withdrawals from but was seeking help in the form of him maybe weaning me off them slowly.

I am shitting bricks as I don't want to be on it.

Now im parked on 16mg of bupe from day 3 of me starting it.

I am UK based.

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[deficiT]

Can anyone help me out here. I have been on 16mg sublingual buprenorphine now for around 6, 7 weeks.

WTF did the doctor put me on such I high level for when I was just messin around now and again with snorting bupe, bit of oramorph, lots of tramadol, codeine, in my past smoked heroin but never got reeled in and the final one that made me cry for help was taking maybe like 300-500mg of dihydrocodeine from which I had withdrawals from but was seeking help in the form of him maybe weaning me off them slowly.

I am shitting bricks as I don't want to be on it.

Now im parked on 16mg of bupe from day 3 of me starting it.

I am UK based.

Any help greatly appreciated.

I have been on 16mg as well. It generally isn't necessary, and yeah, the constipation for me became a bloody mess. I would ask for a dose reduction, 8mg should hold you just fine, and honestly, it'd probably be better to just do a little taper and come off subs completely, if you think you can handle that and not jump back into other opioids. But if you think you'll relapse, there's no shame in maintaining on subs, you just ought to lower your dose.

I have been opioid free for a couple months now and things, well they're not great but that's mostly personal, but physically I'm starting to feel a lot better. I've always had stomach problems and they came raring back, but at least I'm not shitting blood everyday like Suboxone can do to you.