Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[rolls]

how much heroin where you using to need such a long time to stabilise?

I really hope that I can do this 6 day taper and that I dont get fucked up WD on the last 3 days. Right now I'm feeling a bit average, still motivated and no cravings, but sweaty back and hot and flushy. Just had a valium and a clonidine to fix that up, hope I sleep alright tonight.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

how much heroin where you using to need such a long time to stabilise?

From the last time I used heroin to the first time I actually got a really good effect out of Suboxone was probably around...2 months maybe. It might have been longer, but it certainly didn't feel like it.

At first I was using Suboxone, sublingually only in the mornings, then I would get heroin some nights later. I would still get just as high as I wanted to from heroin, but later on I realized dosing more than once a day with Suboxone was the key for me to quit using heroin all together.

I wasn't using as much heroin as some people on here have - I was probably going through a quarter gram to 1/3 of a gram of heroin a day. Some days it was closer to one or two points, others it was closer to four points.

On average, a half gram would last me 2 or 3 days at the most - I used heroin very sparingly to stretch out as much usage as I could until I really did have to quit for a variety of reasons.

I was snorting 98% of the time too. Snorting heroin was a lot more addictive for me than shooting it.

I really hope that I can do this 6 day taper and that I dont get fucked up WD on the last 3 days. Right now I'm feeling a bit average, still motivated and no cravings, but sweaty back and hot and flushy. Just had a valium and a clonidine to fix that up, hope I sleep alright tonight.

Just 5mg of diazepam would really help me pull through heroin WD without feeling like utter shit. I have always been thankful for the few benzos here and there that have helped me a lot when tapering.

If you still feel like you're WDing for the last 3 days, can you get more Suboxone? It would be better to stay on Suboxone until the acute WD is over and then to taper down as comfortably as possible while still trying to get off in a timely fashion.

I also understand you're trying to avoid trading one dependency for another too - best of luck with that one. However, even just 6 days of Suboxone can really help take away the edge, so I think you'll do just fine if you have the prize in mind, so to speak.

 

[rolls]

The counsellor said it was 1-3 weeks depending on how I went, the doctor that actually got the auth said it was 6 days. I go in for a WD assessment tomorrow and they will see what dose to give me for the next 5 days. I will enquire about staying on for as long as 14 days if I am suffering bad WD after the 6 days still, any longer in my eyes is just replacing one addiction with another, not to mention the huge pain in the ass of driving to the clinic everyday, good 30-45minutes of my day wasted.

The 5mg of diaz and 100mcg of clonidine plus a few beers did wonders, right now I feel fine no WD at all. Hopefully they don't kick in during the night. Off to bed now, wish me luck, going in at 11.30am tomorrow, but can go as early as 9am if I feel like total shit.

 

[h-90]

How much bupe are you guys on? I'm on 4mg right now but I was on 16mg a couple of months ago. After reading some your guys posts that seems high? I jumped to 16mgBupe from 80mg methadone.

When I tapered (not really a taper since I dropped 2mg/ per day) I was in such terrible pain. I mean like sitting on the toilet screaming out to mummy kind of pain. I didn't realize bupe was so strong. And the withdrawal lasted 6 long weeks, although after 6 weeks it got a lot better.

I find now dosing twice a day whilst on my low dose helps a lot with sleep.

Oh and Clonodine is a life savior, it just removes so many withdrawal symptoms.


No real particular point to my post . . . Just saying things out loud


EDIT: Oh and how long do you guys leave the suboxne in your mouth? I leave it in there for 30min, also after reading this thread that seems excessive.

 

[rolls]

They stepped me up to 8mg from 4mg today, and I have no buzz like I did on the 4mg. I have cravings and Im tempted to go use double my normal dose of tea just to see if it works.

Help, I know this is the psychological part that I need to get over, but any tips?

Maybe I will make a small batch and when I find that the bupe has blocked its effects I will realise that theres no way I can get a buzz, that might help me deal with the next 5 days.

EDIT: Oh and how long do you guys leave the suboxne in your mouth? I leave it in there for 30min, also after reading this thread that seems excessive.

It usually take 30 seconds to one minute to dissolve so I don't really understand how you can leave it in your mouth any longer.

 

[Nib]

They stepped me up to 8mg from 4mg today, and I have no buzz like I did on the 4mg. I have cravings and Im tempted to go use double my normal dose of tea just to see if it works.

Help, I know this is the psychological part that I need to get over, but any tips?

Maybe I will make a small batch and when I find that the bupe has blocked its effects I will realise that theres no way I can get a buzz, that might help me deal with the next 5 days.



It usually take 30 seconds to one minute to dissolve so I don't really understand how you can leave it in your mouth any longer.

Shit man don't even waste your time/pods. I mean you already know it's not gonna work, so if you take the tea you might just end up disappointing yourself because there's still a part of you thinking/hoping it's gonna break through. Just try to fight it man, good luck.

 

[rolls]

Dosed up and I barely felt shit, I'm kind of glad I did now so that it isn't constantly plaguing my mind and I can accept that I am going to be sober the next 5 days.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

How much bupe are you guys on? I'm on 4mg right now but I was on 16mg a couple of months ago. After reading some your guys posts that seems high? I jumped to 16mgBupe from 80mg methadone.

When I tapered (not really a taper since I dropped 2mg/ per day) I was in such terrible pain. I mean like sitting on the toilet screaming out to mummy kind of pain. I didn't realize bupe was so strong. And the withdrawal lasted 6 long weeks, although after 6 weeks it got a lot better.

I find now dosing twice a day whilst on my low dose helps a lot with sleep.

Oh and Clonodine is a life savior, it just removes so many withdrawal symptoms.


No real particular point to my post . . . Just saying things out loud

I take roughly 1 to 1.25mg per day in 0.25mg increments.

Yeah, I used to consume roughly 6mg a day - way too much.

They stepped me up to 8mg from 4mg today, and I have no buzz like I did on the 4mg. I have cravings and Im tempted to go use double my normal dose of tea just to see if it works.

Help, I know this is the psychological part that I need to get over, but any tips?

Maybe I will make a small batch and when I find that the bupe has blocked its effects I will realise that theres no way I can get a buzz, that might help me deal with the next 5 days.



It usually take 30 seconds to one minute to dissolve so I don't really understand how you can leave it in your mouth any longer.

My best advice to you is this: give buprenorphine a chance. The longer you abstain from the pods, the longer you give your body time to naturally lower your tolerance. Then, after some time has gone by and your tolerance has been worked down a little bit, you should be able to start to get a nice buzz out of buprenorphine. Nothing spectacular, but it'll definitely give you a nice, stimulating edge which is useful for going about every day life.

I know I didn't really get the full potential out of buprenorphine until I fully abstained from heroin for several months. Until that point, I still had a high enough opiate tolerance to the point where I didn't get such good effects from buprenorphine - which is what led me to relapsing here and there until I decided to quit using heroin all together which was the best decision I've ever made.

I now find buprenorphine a lot more euphoric than heroin due to the lack of major withrawal symptoms in between doses - even though I don't like to, I can stretch out my doses by 8 to 12 hours before feeling the slightest touch of WD. Heroin (when IV'd) would only get you about 3 to 4 hours before the WD starts - or snorted, it might get you 6 to 8 tops.

This is just a part of why I like buprenorphine better - there are many other reasons.

The only real advantage heroin had was the perfect sleeping cycles I had - but either way, I'm definitely past using dope "mentally" and the best advice I can give you man is this: get it out of your head. Sell someone your pods/give them away/trade for something/flush it - you don't need pods around you to encourage a relapse.

Plus, find someone IRL you can talk about this with. Hopefully there'll be someone out there who can understand and help you with what you're going through by merely listening and talking with you. A little social support goes a long way during WD.

Finally, find a hobby or something that interests you to keep yourself engaged and excited about life. As long as you can keep something in mind that you are looking forward to - whether it be having sex, using another drug, going for a long walk - anything you find pleasurable - it will help out immensely.

The small, more simple joys of life shine through to me while in opiate withdrawal as a beacon of hope in a way.

I hope this helped man, feel free to PM me if you want to talk some time.

 

[rolls]

Captain Heroin thanks for the great advice, I feel the sub is working it is just the mental cravings, I want to get high which is the problem at the moment. I was ok yesterday on 4mg but today on 8 it seems to have helped the WD better but made the cravings worse. I had 5mg valium with my dose and I felt absolutely no high other than a bit of relaxation for an hour.

Also it is 6 days maximum I can be on sub, they seem to think I will be fine going from 4-2mg to nothing which is a load of shit. I am confident I will experience significant WD from this which is where I will be at risk of relapse, they don't believe me and seen think some buscopan and 5mg temazapam for 3 days will be enough.

I will see how I am tomorrow, not in the best mindset right now, too many negative thoughts. I will try and have a sleep and start over and hopefully I will be in a better mind set.

I have more outlets than most people and a very supportive environment, I just need to stop this 'I need to get high' mindset, I am confident this is 99% of the problem and once I can get rid of that and be happy with a gym buzz or relaxing in bed after good sex I will be ok.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Captain Heroin thanks for the great advice, I feel the sub is working it is just the mental cravings, I want to get high which is the problem at the moment. I was ok yesterday on 4mg but today on 8 it seems to have helped the WD better but made the cravings worse. I had 5mg valium with my dose and I felt absolutely no high other than a bit of relaxation for an hour.

The reason why 8mg increases relief of WD symptoms but increases cravings is this:

norbuprenorphine, the first metabolite of buprenorphine, is a better mu-agonist and is more euphoric than buprenorphine alone. At a dose of 8mg, there's not enough unoccupied mu-opioid receptors for norbuprenorphine to activate them - whereas using a smaller dose (2mg or 4mg) will leave more mu-opioid receptors open for activation via norbuprenorphine - hence causing a better effect, and a more enjoyable experience.

This is why taking more buprenorphine can make people worse off than actually better - if you can stand a "little bit" of WD - it'll really help the cravings to dose low.

Trust me on this one. I have learned this the hard way but once I learned it was phenomenal - I mean, I originally didn't think it was possible that a smaller dose could make me feel better than a larger one - but now I know it's true I really do get quite a kick out of it and it gives me quite the advantage.

they don't believe me and seen think some buscopan and 5mg temazapam for 3 days will be enough.

Definitely won't be. If they taper you from 4mg to 2mg to 1.5mg to 1mg to 0.5mg to 1/3mg to 0.25mg to 0.125mg, dropping off from there with 15mg temazepam for the next few days would be a lot more efficient and would give you better odds to quit.

For some reason, doctors are horrible at creating tapering charts. Just my experience though, maybe there's a worthwhile doctor out there? Haven't met them yet.

I have more outlets than most people and a very supportive environment, I just need to stop this 'I need to get high' mindset, I am confident this is 99% of the problem and once I can get rid of that and be happy with a gym buzz or relaxing in bed after good sex I will be ok.

You can get over the mindset but there's nothing wrong with getting high.

Go get a bag of weed and roll a joint - spark it up and enjoy yourself man. Drugs you don't have a problem with can really help you with tapering with buprenorphine.

 

[rolls]

You can get over the mindset but there's nothing wrong with getting high.

Go get a bag of weed and roll a joint - spark it up and enjoy yourself man. Drugs you don't have a problem with can really help you with tapering with buprenorphine.

Interesting stuff. Yeah I think Ill just have some valium and beers if I get bad cravings again, maybe a joint or two as none of these I have problems with.

Turns out the 2kg of tea (washed seeds) I made broke through the 8mg of sub pretty much completely. Will do my absolutely best to stick to just sub the next 5 days.

 

[Supeudol]

Suboxone - How long after last dose?

Hey all. I've been to this forum a LOT in the past, and have made a few posts here and there and trying to help others out as well. Anyways, I went to a detox/rehab centre here in Canada for my 600mg/day Oxycodone habit, and coming off of it was hell. I didn't want to go back on Methadone because methadone made me too lethargic, and I wanted to try Suboxone and had been waiting for SOOO long for it to finally be approved by Health Canada as we are very slow at approving new medications in Canada here and way behind Europe in terms of health care.

With that in mind, I got on Suboxone - at first for the first week I wasn't to pleased as I know its only a partial opioid agonist and the induction phase took a lot longer for me with Suboxone than it did with methadone, obviously because of my extreme tolerance to oxycodone.

Anyways, I'm on 16mg of Suboxone and have been stable on this dose for some time now. Only thing that sucks is that I have to goto the pharmacy everyday and sit there for 20 minutes to let these big N8 8mg white hexagonal tablets dissolve sublingually. So pretty much, I've been clean for 51 days.

My question is that how long do I have to wait after I dose my 16mg of Suboxone, that I am able to feel the effects of an opioid? Would it be a number of days? A number of hours? I know this is a stupid question and lots of you will say UTFSE, but in my case i'm on 16mg of Suboxone daily, so its kind of hard to guage from what other people have said in other threads and my apologies for being lazy. I am going to remain clean, because I don't want to go back to that life style. And I thank god for having a wonderful new science opioid medication called Suboxone or Buprenorphine as some what rather say. Anyways, can anyone give me a rough idea as to how many hours I would have to wait before having a little fun and chewing some oxy's?

Thank you bluelight members.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

My question is that how long do I have to wait after I dose my 16mg of Suboxone, that I am able to feel the effects of an opioid? Would it be a number of days? A number of hours? I know this is a stupid question and lots of you will say UTFSE, but in my case i'm on 16mg of Suboxone daily, so its kind of hard to guage from what other people have said in other threads and my apologies for being lazy. I am going to remain clean, because I don't want to go back to that life style. And I thank god for having a wonderful new science opioid medication called Suboxone or Buprenorphine as some what rather say. Anyways, can anyone give me a rough idea as to how many hours I would have to wait before having a little fun and chewing some oxy's?

Thank you bluelight members.

16mg is an awfully high dose; you will probably want to taper lower with Suboxone first before attempting to get high again.

I merged it in the Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread & FAQ here, because you can ask any question about buprenorphine in this thread.

 

[PinK~cloud]

rolls,
I started BMT in mid march of 09'. I was on a high dose of 16mg a day which helped my physical WDs, but mostly it kept the fiending for opiates kind of mind set away. Don't get me wrong, i still lusted for the high, but it wasnt like before where i was willing to do uncharacteristic things for opiates.
I've used and successfully gotten high twice since then. I waited 3 days once and got high off of an oxy 80, the next time was about 36 hours after my last dose and i needed 160mg of oxycodone to get high. anyway, it took until late july/early august for me to finally stop missing the high. I don't think about it anymore, i just kind of "forgot" what it was like to be high.
The mental cravings are the worse but only time can help you with them. I hope things turn out well for you in the long run. have a good one~

Edit: I think it's really lame that so many of people are jumping out and talking down AA/NA. AA and NA are both the same thing, they both deal with substance addictions. A lot of people have finally gotten sober because of AA/NA. In the book there are many stories of people who tried everything to sober up, without success, and AA/NA was the only thing that worked.

If it wasn't for alcoholics anonymous and the widespread knowledge that substance abuse could actually be cured(sorta), and wasn't a psychiatric disorder, we would all still be locked up in mental institutes like they did before AA was founded.

 

[h-90]

Personally I find if you are still addicted to the high of opiates go on methadone, you still get a decent high from that whilst getting your life back together.

If you just want to stop WD go on bupe.

 

[Supeudol]

16mg is not an awfully high dose of Suboxone. You can go as high as 32mg. Suboxone has a ceiling dose. And no, I already explained in my thread that i'm not going on methadone because Methadone is horseshit compared to Suboxone. IMO, Suboxone has WAY better anti-anxiety properties to it and is a lot easier to come off than Methadone because it is only a partial opioid agonist and not a full blown one like Methadone. My question was also not that I wanted to taper off Suboxone. I hear of lots of people on Suboxone maintenance and still being able to get high after waiting a day or a number of hours after their last dose.

Before replying to my post, please READ it carefully

Thanks

EDIT: I wasn't very pleased with my thread being bumped into here. I would rather have it out in OD as I would get more appropriate answers and everyone can see it, including pharmassists and doctors.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

EDIT: I wasn't very pleased with my thread being bumped into here. I would rather have it out in OD as I would get more appropriate answers and everyone can see it, including pharmassists and doctors.

DJSim, who is a pharmacist, will typically reply to this thread as well.

The only major difference is - most of the other mods will lock threads that ask "when can I take ___opiate after Suboxone?" or vice versa.

I decided to merge it into the Suboxone Mega Thread so that you could continue to talk about it in the first place. Unknown posted a thread recently explaining why a lot of posts get closed around here - and mostly your thread would have applied. However, these sorts of things are discussed heavily in the Suboxone Mega Thread, so I figured I'd just merge it in here instead.

 

[StaffWriter]

^^Give it at least another 24 hours. Do not take Suboxone/Subutex within 72 hours of ingesting methadone or it will cause precip. wd.

 

[Supeudol]

Hey all. I've been to this forum a LOT in the past, and have made a few posts here and there and trying to help others out as well. Anyways, I went to a detox/rehab centre here in Canada for my 600mg/day Oxycodone habit, and coming off of it was hell. I didn't want to go back on Methadone because methadone made me too lethargic, and I wanted to try Suboxone and had been waiting for SOOO long for it to finally be approved by Health Canada as we are very slow at approving new medications in Canada here and way behind Europe in terms of health care.

With that in mind, I got on Suboxone - at first for the first week I wasn't to pleased as I know its only a partial opioid agonist and the induction phase took a lot longer for me with Suboxone than it did with methadone, obviously because of my extreme tolerance to oxycodone.

Anyways, I'm on 16mg of Suboxone and have been stable on this dose for some time now. Only thing that sucks is that I have to goto the pharmacy everyday and sit there for 20 minutes to let these big N8 8mg white hexagonal tablets dissolve sublingually. So pretty much, I've been clean for 51 days.

My question is that how long do I have to wait after I dose my 16mg of Suboxone, that I am able to feel the effects of an opioid? Would it be a number of days? A number of hours? I know this is a stupid question and lots of you will say UTFSE, but in my case i'm on 16mg of Suboxone daily, so its kind of hard to guage from what other people have said in other threads and my apologies for being lazy. I am going to remain clean, because I don't want to go back to that life style. And I thank god for having a wonderful new science opioid medication called Suboxone or Buprenorphine as some what rather say. Anyways, can anyone give me a rough idea as to how many hours I would have to wait before having a little fun and chewing some oxy's?

Thank you bluelight members.

When my thread gets put into a HUGE merged thread like this, I don't get any answers. I just see other people posting questions below mine. Nobody has yet to give me an answer to my question - which is how long will I have to wait after taking my Suboxone dose of 16mg, before I can go and take Oxy's again?

Or - what if I were to take on Oxy 80 to early? What will happen? No effect, or will I go into withdrawals? and I don't IV. I'm talking Oral usage here.

Also - can Fentanyl bypass buprenorphine? Because I have one 50mcg/hr ratio fentanyl patch. Anything I can do?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

When my thread gets put into a HUGE merged thread like this, I don't get any answers. I just see other people posting questions below mine. Nobody has yet to give me an answer to my question - which is how long will I have to wait after taking my Suboxone dose of 16mg, before I can go and take Oxy's again?

Well, to be completely honest, there isn't a 100% for sure way to exactly know when it would be safe to take oxycodone after a 16mg dose of buprenorphine.

For example, I used to switch back and forth from heroin and Suboxone by every 12 hours or so - whereas other people need to wait multiple days - like 2 to 4 days.

So, it really does vary individual per individual.

Overall - I would guess that you would need to wait at least two days. If you were to take Suboxone again at maybe say, 8mg, and then the next day take it again at say, 4mg, you may get away with then waiting just 24 hours after the 4mg dose. But, 16mg is a bit higher of a dose and might take longer to get out of your system.

Since there isn't really any way to be absolutely sure, I would wait at least 24 hours, and then try a low dose of oxycodone. If you can't feel it, I would wait an additional 8 to 12 hours.

Additionally, as I explained earlier, the example of "after I took _mg of Suboxone, when can I get high on OC's?" is not a good thread idea for Other Drugs.

Obviously OD covers a broad range of topics since it lumps in what is not included by BD and ADD. However, a lot of the material being posted can be found with very little effort on the original poster's part (OP). Questions such as:
* If I take suboxone 12 hours after taking heroin will I go into preciptated withdrawals?
* I have a 160mg oxycodone tolerance, will 50mg hydrocodone get me high?
* Does anyone notice the difference between brand names and generics?

All these questions have been answered countless times before, and it is for that reason that unless you cannot find the answer through searching, we will not be going over the same material ad nauseum. Of course if you have something new to add to a topic, then that is encouraged. But the repetitive, easy to research answers will not be answered just because people are too lazy to search themselves. Of course if you cant find an answer after searching, then ask away.

Or - what if I were to take on Oxy 80 to early? What will happen? No effect, or will I go into withdrawals? and I don't IV. I'm talking Oral usage here.

Also - can Fentanyl bypass buprenorphine? Because I have one 50mcg/hr ratio fentanyl patch. Anything I can do?

If you take 80mg OC earlier than is recommended, you won't go into withdrawals. You only go into withdrawals when buprenorphine is administered before you've waited to go into normal WD's from short acting opiates.

You may not feel anything from the 80mg OC, you may feel 1/2 of the effects, you may only feel a slightly off baseline sort of effect. Some people may get the full effect - but that's kind of rare.

Fentanyl probably won't "bypass" buprenorphine - but the idea is that if you put on the patch now, the medicine will slowly start to go across the membrane of your skin - so as the buprenorphine starts to leave, more and more fentanyl will start to effect you.

I don't know if your tolerance would be "on par" with a 50mcg/hr fentanyl patch - so I'd hate to have you OD or something, but if you know you would be OK from taking it, or know when to take it off, then you can certainly try it - and it should be able to break past the buprenorphine (fentanyl and heroin can break past buprenorphine in a high enough dose).