Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[SantaCruzOpiates]

CH- I have withdrawn from suboxone five times now. My doctor and I have used it for tapering to re-adjust my dosage for my pain medication as well as attempting to detox. I have withdrawn from 1mg and 2mg, and I have also tried something similar to what you plan to do. When you get to doses that low you are still going to feel withdrawal even if it's not as bad as being clean. With doses that low you are going to just torture yourself for MONTHS. You are much better off detoxing off .5mg-1mg, get some clonidine, klonopin, trazadone, weed, and occasional alcohol when your blood isn't flowing with the other medication. By the time you taper to 1mg, detox for an entire month, and feel 85%-90% back to normal you will still be half way through messing with crazy low dosing that is going to still ahve you feeling half shitty. There is no painless withdrawal. none, but the easiest way to do is with suboxone and do it when you reach the point where taking suboxone has you in almost no withdrawal at all and having no suboxone has you in full withdrawal. This is around .5mg-1.25mg. If you are going to mess around with half withdrawal you are going to 1- be miserable for a very long time 2- relapse 3- use suboxone inappropriately to offset withdrawal which will get you high or mess up your taper schedule.

Just try it my way and hit that 30 day mark after detoxing .5mg-1mg. if you don't like how you are then try it your way and go back to super low dosing. It seems like you have the time for it.

And let me tell you one more thing. I did a rehab program when I was 17 (11 years ago). There was not a single person there, a single person anyone knew, or a single person I ever ran into after no longer using who was able to use "just once in a blue moon". Once your brain has been rewired like that then it's going to be that way forever. It won't be for about a year without opiates until you feel like 100% your old self again, some people more. And around a year you can tell yourself that you have a real chance of making it. I don't care whaty you say about once in a blue moon using. I don't know a single alcoholic, opiate addict, cocaine addict, or meth addict EVER do it successfully and I heard thousands of storeis about people who drank 1-2 beers a night for five years after being alcoholics for 10 years. But low and behold something shitty happens, they forget what's important, or they just don't care anymore and it's back to where they were. And don't say "well in rehab those are going to be the people that can't do it anyways" because I have been a pain patient for nine years and have met MANY people who are not in rehab who have tried doing it and couldn't maintain it at all- even after years of chipping. Full blown using is inevitable for people who are using daily for so long. If you REALLY want to quit you can't tell yourself chipping is going to be okay. You have to really want to quit and do it. No matter how painful, miserable, or undesirable it may feel. You have to know deep down inside that being without opiates/DOC is going to be a better life no matter how shitty you are going to have to feel.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

CH- I have withdrawn from suboxone five times now. My doctor and I have used it for tapering to re-adjust my dosage for my pain medication as well as attempting to detox. I have withdrawn from 1mg and 2mg, and I have also tried something similar to what you plan to do. When you get to doses that low you are still going to feel withdrawal even if it's not as bad as being clean. With doses that low you are going to just torture yourself for MONTHS. You are much better off detoxing off .5mg-1mg, get some clonidine, klonopin, trazadone, weed, and occasional alcohol when your blood isn't flowing with the other medication. By the time you taper to 1mg, detox for an entire month, and feel 85%-90% back to normal you will still be half way through messing with crazy low dosing that is going to still ahve you feeling half shitty. There is no painless withdrawal. none, but the easiest way to do is with suboxone and do it when you reach the point where taking suboxone has you in almost no withdrawal at all and having no suboxone has you in full withdrawal. This is around .5mg-1.25mg. If you are going to mess around with half withdrawal you are going to 1- be miserable for a very long time 2- relapse 3- use suboxone inappropriately to offset withdrawal which will get you high or mess up your taper schedule.

Just try it my way and hit that 30 day mark after detoxing .5mg-1mg. if you don't like how you are then try it your way and go back to super low dosing. It seems like you have the time for it.

I don't like alcohol, I don't need BP meds, I don't like clonazepam (it sucks), I hate trazodone (it sucks harder), weed is nice though.

I'm not just jumping off a high dose, that would be torturing myself.

I'm not going to be miserable for a long time, I'm not going to relapse. It's not likely I'm going to relapse as I've gone 11 months without heroin, and I don't mind going 8 to 12 hours in between doses (which normally last me 4 to 8 hours).

I guess some people have to "have it all or none" but I'm certainly not that way.

Buprenorphine is an extremely efficient medication and you don't need a lot of it at all.

Telling someone to "just jump off" isn't good advice IMO. What worked for you would not work for me.

There is a way to slowly titrate the steady level of buprenorphine out of your system so that you barely if at all feel it. Jumping off of a high dose is not necessary - why go through an extremely long (~ 3 week) withdrawal when it's not as painless as possible (tapered to the lowest dose)?

Staying on Suboxone for not that long doesn't ensure you get clean very efficiently; you want to be on Suboxone for a while so your endogenous endorphins start to act normally again, and so your opiate tolerance goes back to normal. This took months for me, and suddenly jumping off of buprenorphine is not the best strategy for me.

I don't know what you are talking about with the "partial withdrawal" or whatever...taking buprenorphine doesn't put you in withdrawal. Every time I cut my dose in half (when I went from 2mg to 1mg, 1mg to 0.5mg, 0.5mg to 1/3mg, 1/3mg to 0.25mg) I got higher/better rush, so I'm not exactly inclined to believe I'd be "torturing" myself in any way. If by "torturing" myself you mean better high/rush...well...that doesn't bother me and doesn't persuade me to use opiates.

Some people might feel any opiate high and feel compulsions to take opiates, but I don't. Low dose buprenorphine is a very efficient high for me, and you can taper the dose down while still retaining the effects. I don't see why going from 0.5mg or 1mg to 0 is such a good idea again.

Plus, some days, I wake up and have no withdrawal symptoms. I'm pretty sure I'm at a point where I'm not going to face WD symptoms if I taper properly, but I probably would by sudden discontinuation.

 

[SantaCruzOpiates]

I know you may think 11 months means something but it really doesn't I can't tell you how many people with 10 years I have seen relapse. You can tell yourself all you want it won't happen but you really don't know.

1mg is NOT jumping off. Not even close, and not even close to being irresponsible. There is a reason why doctors don't do what you do. Buperenorphine stops becoming effective in opiate tolerant people at such low doses. It is not enough opiate to satisfy your receptors. You may be dropping your dose, but the inablity to produce dopamine is still going to be there for a very long time. The point you stop taking your bupe is when without it you are in withdrawal and with it you are in zero withdrawal. You could drop your dose the way you plan to, but it's going to take a lot longer than six months.

I know you think you have got it all figured out, but there is a reason it doesn't work this way and it can't. There is a reason why people drop 1mg every month starting at 32mg. It takes REAL time to do this, and you WILL be torturing yourself dropping that fast with that little medication. You would be much better off manning up and taking care of it. You can hate the effects of those medications all you want. I know I certainty do, but they get rid of the opiate withdrawal and that's the entire point. Put yourself in a different place for 21-28 days before going without any medication.

Coming off suboxone is going to take you MONTHS before you can sleep right or experience no withdrawal. You are going to experience PAWS, and going to feel like your body is making no progress in recovering. You may think I have no idea what I am talking about with six posts on blulight, but two years of rehab-cleantime-daily NA meetings, nine years of chronic pain, five suboxone tapers, 1 methadone taper, and a bajillion heroin detoxes and I have plenty of experience.

You meet a lot of people when you faciliate NA meetings, talk, run secretary, do volunteer work,and dedicate half of your daily life talking to addicts about their using. That plus nine years of chronic pain and facing the fact that you have to be an addict or else you will kill yourself and going through those support groups and being with those people will teach you what you really have to do to stay clean and what is really within people's capabilities as far as using again goes.

I really don't want to argue, but I look forward to your PM two months-six months-two years-twenty years from now when I can say I told you so because chipping is something that is realistic. Of the four or five thousand people I have met and talked to I would still love to meet one who could tell me they know a chipper that died a chipper. I am sure you will tell me I am wrong for whatever reasons, but if you really want to quit you have to commit 100% because brain chemistry and basic neuro-reactions are far more powerful than human's self created "will power". Until will power becomes chemically as powerful as dopamine cravings, people cannot "out think" using. It just doesn't work that way. Any DOCTOR or addiction specialist with whatever degrees will tell you so. You think there is a reason they tell you this whether they are affiliated with NA/AA or any other program. Science has shown that it doesn't work that way. From a recovery standpoint it doesn't matter. This is human chemistry and any single person who does this type of research and knows what the fuck is up will tell you so. Not beause they care if you are clean or not, but because they are telling you from years and years of research and what science has proven scientifically about the body.

You can do whatever you want with your suboxone taper. don't take my advice, think 1mg is "painful", but don't even begin to imply that I am encouraging people to do something unsafe or inhumane. Brain chemistry has also shown that tapering the way you plan to is TOO FAST. You will experience withdrawal no matter what, and to not just man up and take the misery that is 1/10 of what people deal with on methadone at a similar dose is just a way to shoot your sobriety. I cannot convince you about your tapering, but I really do hope you a tleast reconsider your "chipping" aka first step before full blown using. Like I explained, it's physically impossible for you to do so, and if you really want to quit and plan on chipping you shouldn't quit because you are not committed enough to do it successfully forever.

By the way I was forced into using opiate do to chronic pain. I hate the place I am at and I hate the fact that I started abusing it half way down the road after four years of taking medication exactly as prescribed. I hadn't used once in two years and didn't think I would have to ever agian. Life tends to do that to us.

 

[yoyolove88]

Santa Cruz, when CH was talking about chipping and some people being able to do it he was referring to my post. To my knowledge CH has no plans on chipping after his sub taper. Honestly, to say that the best way to get off of suboxone is to jump off at 1mg is pretty ignorant. It would seem to me that you don't understand what exactly a taper does, although I'm sure you do.

The fact is that over the prolonged time that he plans on doing his sub maintenance (26 weeks) his body's need for opiates will drastically decrease. Thus making what seem like extremely small level's to us, enough for him personally. I'm no doctor here, but like you i'v dealt with sub and addiction quite a bit. To be completely honest it would seem to me that your listening to your doctors and support groups TOO much. Jumping off at 1mg is completely unnecessary and to say that doses lower than that do more harm than good is just ignorant.

My first few times on sub, I wanted to do it like you said with a very very long plan. I failed miserably because in the end I was still a slave to an opiate and I knew I would be for an indefinite amount of time. This last time (which i took my last dose 4 days ago) I decided for a quicker plan, the original plan was to drop from 4mg (i had been prescribed 12mg a day) to none in 21 days. As time went on I had stuck with the plan but ended up getting in the habit of occassionaly abusing it. Four months into the plan that was supposed to be 21 days I had completely stopped abusing it and had successfully and painlessly tapered down to doses between .2-.4mg. I was on doses around .2-.5 for about 3 weeks and then started dosing every other day for a week. I sit here now typing this 4 days after my last sub dose (wednesday) and I can honestly say I feel pretty fuckin normal. Aside from having to take .5mg of klonopin to sleep and having some minor sniffles/sneezes I feel completely fine. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe it just hasn't fully started yet (although I'm almost certain it has), but I know one thing for sure, if I had jumped off at 1mg I'd be wanting to die right now.

I don't know what I'm getting at here but basically it's different for everyone dude. It's great that your way worked for you but for me the indefinite year long sub plans only made me more hopeless than before. The only part that bothers me about CH's taper plan (which I think is pretty fucking brilliant if he can pull it off by the way) is that he's planning on IV'ing (or am I wrong? that's the impression I got from reading it). I honestly don't have any room to talk though because I always snorted my doses, simply because it was the best way for me to get a somewhat accurate small dosage.

I may not be the best example, and my battle is far from won but I felt that I could shed some light on this conversation. Especially as far as tapering goes.

 

[cire113]

From my experience if If I'm planing on "quitting" but still have opiates laying around....

thats me giving myself a reservation to inevitably use again........

 

[passtheflask]

Third time doing sub and I'm still getting a slight headache, nothing a few advil won't help. Just curious as to why it's causing a headache. I feel great otherwise.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I know you may think 11 months means something but it really doesn't I can't tell you how many people with 10 years I have seen relapse. You can tell yourself all you want it won't happen but you really don't know.

I guess if I was still interested in using opiates...but I'm not.

There's a difference between someone who is likely to relapse and someone who isn't: an interest or desire/craving to consume opiates.

I no longer have such a desire nor craving.

You can be clean for 10 years, but if you are still craving opiates, you will probably relapse, yes. However, I know myself well enough and I do not desire to use heroin ever again.

1mg is NOT jumping off. Not even close, and not even close to being irresponsible. There is a reason why doctors don't do what you do. Buperenorphine stops becoming effective in opiate tolerant people at such low doses. It is not enough opiate to satisfy your receptors. You may be dropping your dose, but the inablity to produce dopamine is still going to be there for a very long time. The point you stop taking your bupe is when without it you are in withdrawal and with it you are in zero withdrawal. You could drop your dose the way you plan to, but it's going to take a lot longer than six months.

If I was unable to produce dopamine, quitting buprenorphine will be the least of my concerns.

I study pharmacology in college and I can assure you that you don't know much about it if you think that "I have an inability to produce dopamine".

I am not opiate tolerant - my opiate tolerance has all but disappeared.

I actually do not experience withdrawal symptoms (besides runny nose/watery eyes and some tiredness) upon discontinuation of buprenorphine.

You seem to be talking about yourself here man...because this sure as hell doesn't describe me.

I know you think you have got it all figured out, but there is a reason it doesn't work this way and it can't. There is a reason why people drop 1mg every month starting at 32mg. It takes REAL time to do this, and you WILL be torturing yourself dropping that fast with that little medication. You would be much better off manning up and taking care of it. You can hate the effects of those medications all you want. I know I certainty do, but they get rid of the opiate withdrawal and that's the entire point. Put yourself in a different place for 21-28 days before going without any medication.

You may think you have me figured out too - but you obviously don't and are projecting right now.

I didn't start at 32mg, that's ridiculously high and is unnecessary for 99% of opiate users.

You said it yourself - you certainly "hate the effects of those medications" - what are you even talking about man? I don't hate the effects of Suboxone at all.

Coming off suboxone is going to take you MONTHS before you can sleep right or experience no withdrawal. You are going to experience PAWS, and going to feel like your body is making no progress in recovering. You may think I have no idea what I am talking about with six posts on blulight, but two years of rehab-cleantime-daily NA meetings, nine years of chronic pain, five suboxone tapers, 1 methadone taper, and a bajillion heroin detoxes and I have plenty of experience.

Not everyone goes through PAWS - you seem to be projecting a lot now.

You seem to have abused heroin (and other opiates) a lot more than I ever have or ever will...and...I'm sorry to say this, but you seem to know a lot more about yourself and what will work for you than you know me or what will work for me.

I really don't want to argue, but I look forward to your PM two months-six months-two years-twenty years from now when I can say I told you so

Oh, you think that's how it's going to be?

You definitely did not "Tell me so" and I can tell you that now. I've refrained from opiate use for 11 months now - that's something 75% of people who have "quit heroin" do NOT accomplish.

Let me guess, you relapsed within the first 9 months of trying to quit heroin. You're angry because Suboxone gave you PAWS.

Sorry, I'm not in the same boat as you...the boat your in appears to have a leak.

I am sure you will tell me I am wrong for whatever reasons,

I don't have reasons, I have proof, that you are wrong. You seem to think one size fits all in terms of addiction recovery...and I don't see it the same way you do. At all.

Not everyone relapses, not everyone experiences PAWS, and CERTAINLY not everyone has to go to NA meetings.

With this being said, not everyone who even tries heroin becomes addicted.

So how are you going to tell me that my taper is torturing myself again? I already have said I don't experience the WD symptoms you appear to be talking about as is.

Plus, I'm not a "chipper" I don't do "chipping" - I don't like using heroin anymore. It's not something I consider "desirable". Someone who relapses considers heroin "desirable".

You must be thinking about yourself a lot of the time when you're telling me these things, because they don't make sense.

And, I will tell you this - you may think everyone relapses and goes through PAWS - BECAUSE YOU'RE IN NA. Of COURSE everyone in NA is going to go through dozens and dozens of relapses, are you kidding me? Of COURSE you think you know what I'm going through, because you have dozens of people who have not a drop of will power or self restraint in a room talking to each other about how pathetic they have become because of it!

If I threw a gram of heroin in a NA meeting, do you know how many people would die trying to scramble for it and the closest straw/needle?

Shit man...don't come into the thread ranting about what my recovery is going to be like because yours was so unpleasant. Seriously. Not everyone is like you. I'm certainly not like you. And I certainly am going to have an easier time getting off of buprenorphine than you have had.

Santa Cruz, when CH was talking about chipping and some people being able to do it he was referring to my post.

Praise Jesus...someone can read!!! Have a chocolate chip cookie and a glass of milk, man!

To my knowledge CH has no plans on chipping after his sub taper. Honestly, to say that the best way to get off of suboxone is to jump off at 1mg is pretty ignorant. It would seem to me that you don't understand what exactly a taper does, although I'm sure you do.

Thank you x2!!! Of course I won't be chipping! 1mg would be entirely too much to jump off of as well, but I won't beat a dead horse into oblivion.

Thus making what seem like extremely small level's to us, enough for him personally. I'm no doctor here, but like you i'v dealt with sub and addiction quite a bit. To be completely honest it would seem to me that your listening to your doctors and support groups TOO much. Jumping off at 1mg is completely unnecessary and to say that doses lower than that do more harm than good is just ignorant.

Thank you! I am personally sensitive to opiates - meaning, what may not even begin to "hold" an average user, I get rather high off of. Most people don't report getting "high" from Suboxone whereas I do. I know I'm an anomaly, I know it's not common for people to get as much out of Suboxone as I do.

Doctors know very little about Suboxone to be honest - they know what R&B has lectured them on, which is a bunch of lies.

Most Suboxone doctors know very little about buprenorphine to be honest with you. I wouldn't be saying this unless I have gone to a senior level class on pharmacology/toxicology to learn otherwise (I have).

I sit here now typing this 4 days after my last sub dose (wednesday) and I can honestly say I feel pretty fuckin normal. Aside from having to take .5mg of klonopin to sleep and having some minor sniffles/sneezes I feel completely fine. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe it just hasn't fully started yet (although I'm almost certain it has), but I know one thing for sure, if I had jumped off at 1mg I'd be wanting to die right now.

It's good to hear you're doing all right man. Plus, a little benzos can really go a long way when it comes to tapering Suboxone.

I don't know what I'm getting at here but basically it's different for everyone dude. It's great that your way worked for you but for me the indefinite year long sub plans only made me more hopeless than before. The only part that bothers me about CH's taper plan (which I think is pretty fucking brilliant if he can pull it off by the way) is that he's planning on IV'ing (or am I wrong? that's the impression I got from reading it). I honestly don't have any room to talk though because I always snorted my doses, simply because it was the best way for me to get a somewhat accurate small dosage.

I may not be the best example, and my battle is far from won but I felt that I could shed some light on this conversation. Especially as far as tapering goes.

That is my plan, and yes your assumptions are correct. This is why my dose decrease is by very small steps - the steps you take down with sublingual doses are larger due to the 30% BA (versus 100% BA). Plus, this decrease I have designed is so slow, it should barely be noticeable at all.

There's no worry with the ROA though, I do not have what most people term on BL to be a "needle addiction" at all. When I tried IVing heroin, I didn't like it as much as snorting it (didn't last long enough for my taste - IV rush is heavenly but short lived). Plus, I haven't ever felt an addictive drive toward any other drug I have IV'd (MDA, cocaine, ketamine, midazolam, flurazepam) - this gives me a good idea that this ROA will work well in tapering.

I guess I didn't mean to be "angry" at the user who thinks I'm going to be relapsing (lol...like I even have dope money...dealers don't give you dope for a sorry ass excuse as to why you don't have any money), but I don't really like being told I'm "going to relapse" - I might as well tell you someone in your NA group has a bottle of OC's and they're willing to share!!! What good does that do you? None? Exactly. That's why I didn't tell you "you're going to relapse" or such nonsense.

Third time doing sub and I'm still getting a slight headache, nothing a few advil won't help. Just curious as to why it's causing a headache. I feel great otherwise.

It might be too high of a dose - how much did you take?

 

[passtheflask]

I did 1mg this past time. First two times did 2mg. All have caused headaches. I mean, it's not enough to make me quit doing sub, I'm just wondering why it would CAUSE pain.

I've got 1.5mg under my tongue right now, we'll see how that goes.

 

[vonchampz]

And, I will tell you this - you may think everyone relapses and goes through PAWS - BECAUSE YOU'RE IN NA. Of COURSE everyone in NA is going to go through dozens and dozens of relapses, are you kidding me? Of COURSE you think you know what I'm going through, because you have dozens of people who have not a drop of will power or self restraint in a room talking to each other about how pathetic they have become because of it!

If I threw a gram of heroin in a NA meeting, do you know how many people would die trying to scramble for it and the closest straw/needle?

This is just plain wrong. People go to NA meetings for a variety of personal, emotional and environmental reasons. Its unfair to say that EVERYONE who is in NA relapses. Not EVERYONE in NA has no will power. AND, not EVERYONE in NA will jump at the gram of heroin.

This might be your opinion/belief based on YOUR past experience. It doesn't mean it holds true for everyone and you certainly shouldn't state it as truth...

 

[Captain.Heroin]

This is just plain wrong. People go to NA meetings for a variety of personal, emotional and environmental reasons. Its unfair to say that EVERYONE who is in NA relapses. Not EVERYONE in NA has no will power. AND, not EVERYONE in NA will jump at the gram of heroin.

This might be your opinion/belief based on YOUR past experience. It doesn't mean it holds true for everyone and you certainly shouldn't state it as truth...

Of course it's plain wrong, just as plain wrong as telling someone they're "going to relapse" is plain wrong.

Even though I'm sure we could both agree the majority of people who go to NA have relapsed...the major point about why both statements are "wrong" is this:

Statements that indicate one person's experience is going to be everyone else's experience as well, are invalid.

I'm glad someone's brain is working today.

I did 1mg this past time. First two times did 2mg. All have caused headaches. I mean, it's not enough to make me quit doing sub, I'm just wondering why it would CAUSE pain.

I've got 1.5mg under my tongue right now, we'll see how that goes.

That is weird.

The headache might indicate sensitivity to another ingredient - which one I am not sure.

Have you tried taking advil or another NSAID before taking buprenorphine to see if that helps at all?

 

[PinK~cloud]

Low dose suboxone users

I'm on 1-2 mg of suboxone a day. it seems like at this low of a dose, i start to feel withdrawals by after noon if i dont take my dose in the morning? anyone else like this, and if so, how do you prevent it?

thanks all

 

[EnYAY]

thats why i usually re-dose with half my original dose around mid day.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Merged.

You can try re-dosing half way throughout the day, that might help you out.

 

[jazzyhope]

If ones goal was to succeed in tapering off bup or suboxone, would it be helpful to switch to subutex? Just thinking out loud.

 

[Mystery Brew]

^ I dont see the difference, there both bupe. Suboxone just has the additional Nalox which is inactive in any ROA.

I have a different question too.
Using different ROA such as snort, iv, sublingual. Do they make a drastic difference in duration besides just having a faster comeup consequently making the duration shorter by just a few minutes?'

bupe is really wierd of a drug in a positive light. When i was in full w/d so teary eyed I look like I was crying, runny nose, pain, restless, all that. worked up to 6mg in the first day (not neccessary). 1mg the second mid-day. today is the third day (no dose yet) with withdrawal symptoms almost non-existant except a little tiredness and slight slight knee pain..does anyone digest bupe out there system this slow?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^ I dont see the difference, there both bupe. Suboxone just has the additional Nalox which is inactive in any ROA.

I have a different question too.
Using different ROA such as snort, iv, sublingual. Do they make a drastic difference in duration besides just having a faster comeup consequently making the duration shorter by just a few minutes?'

bupe is really wierd of a drug in a positive light. When i was in full w/d so teary eyed I look like I was crying, runny nose, pain, restless, all that. worked up to 6mg in the first day (not neccessary). 1mg the second mid-day. today is the third day (no dose yet) with withdrawal symptoms almost non-existant except a little tiredness and slight slight knee pain..does anyone digest bupe out there system this slow?

They do make a drastic change for the length of duration. I can't say for snorting it, but shooting buprenorphine often yields a much shorter duration. However, I guess my experience with buprenorphine is not as "average" as most other people's - sublingual dosing doesn't last as long for me as it does others. From what other people's subjective experiences have told me, I would say that IV buprenorphine has about 1/4 to 1/2 of the duration (probably averaging out somewhere around 1/3 - 1/2) that sublingual dosing does.

It varies for each individual, but I would expect to redose 2 or 3 times in the same length of time you would use once (sublingually).

I find that buprenorphine is metabolized out of my system rather quickly - once a day sublingual dosing lent me to craving later in the day (multiple smaller doses throughout the day works way better for me)...however, there are some days I wake up with almost no WD symptoms... and I do believe this has something to do with the fact that buprenorphine has a rather long half life and will take a while to be fully metabolized out of your system.

If ones goal was to succeed in tapering off bup or suboxone, would it be helpful to switch to subutex? Just thinking out loud.

There would really be no benefit; they are essentially the same.

If anything, the low dose of naloxone may be helping to keep your tolerance down - ULD doses of opiate antagonists have shown the ability to help keep down tolerance and boost effects.

Overall the only thing you could "switch to" to help make tapering easier would be Temegesic, which comes in smaller increments (0.2mg and 0.4mg).

That's about all I would be able to tell you - I would stick with the same medication, just slowly reduce your dose over time and it should work well for you.

 

[rolls]

I am addicted to poppy seed tea and have been put on a 6 day suboxone taper.

They gave me 4mg this morning crushed up and watched me eat it, have to go to the clinic each day which is a bit of a bummer, means I can't cheat though which is good.

So far no high at all but I have no cravings and no withdrawal. I think this might just work? Said they will increase my dosage tomorrow, whether its 6 or 8mg depends on my WD, so far Im not WDing so I guess it will be 6. Basically they step it up for 3 days until I stabilise, if I stabilise early they just hold me on a dose and then back it down over 3 days. Wish me luck fellas, anyone else had a similar program?

If I don't get a buzz from 4mg does that mean I've got a fairly hefty tolerance? I did have an hour long nap this afternoon as it made me a tad sleepy.

Also if 4mg is holding me and I dont have WD tomorrow when I go in for my dose should I ask them to not up it and to just stick with 4mg and then try and taper slower, eg 443211 instead of 466421 or whatever they plan to do over 6 days?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I am addicted to poppy seed tea and have been put on a 6 day suboxone taper.

They gave me 4mg this morning crushed up and watched me eat it, have to go to the clinic each day which is a bit of a bummer, means I can't cheat though which is good.

So far no high at all but I have no cravings and no withdrawal. I think this might just work? Said they will increase my dosage tomorrow, whether its 6 or 8mg depends on my WD, so far Im not WDing so I guess it will be 6. Basically they step it up for 3 days until I stabilise, if I stabilise early they just hold me on a dose and then back it down over 3 days. Wish me luck fellas, anyone else had a similar program?

If I don't get a buzz from 4mg does that mean I've got a fairly hefty tolerance? I did have an hour long nap this afternoon as it made me a tad sleepy.

Also if 4mg is holding me and I dont have WD tomorrow when I go in for my dose should I ask them to not up it and to just stick with 4mg and then try and taper slower, eg 443211 instead of 466421 or whatever they plan to do over 6 days?

Yeah, if 4mg holds you - stay on that.

There's no need to taper upwards unless it's not holding you.

It'll make coming down a lot easier.

I needed 6mg/day max when I first started coming off of heroin, so yes it means you have some tolerance. I didn't get buzzed off of the lower doses of buprenorphine for a few months due to my tolerance taking a while to drop down - but when it eventually did it was great.

Good luck with kicking PPT - and best of luck. Let us know how your 6 day taper goes man.

 

[rolls]

Cheers captain heroin, I will do just that.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Cheers captain heroin, I will do just that.

Just for an update to the taper I brought up at the top of page 6; I haven't begun it yet as this will require some equipment I haven't acquired yet.

I will be getting it in the not too terribly far from now future - and I will update everyone when I begin the tapering process.

For now, I am "stabilizing" (still adjusting) to the dose level I'm at now - which will help when I begin tapering.