Strategies to make up for MDMA-induced cognitive deficits

[Care]

How much physical activity do you do? I find routine exercise makes me feel much more balanced. Join a gym maybe?

Also I don't know what your experience with piracetam (or other nootropics) is, but if I were you I'd give it another shot. Just because its not approved by mainstream science to treat anything doesn't mean its useless, especially since you're trying to treat something as complicated and unstudied as your brain.

 

[nautilus]

^
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Excellent advice. Studies suggest that exercise can actually make you smarter. It promotes more positive thinking and combats certain mental disorders like depression or ocd.

 

[Matthew Reece]

MR, you can't take back what you have done. But you've enjoyed what MDMA has taught you.
But like all experiences in life, you can only learn from it and move forward.

I enjoyed the first time a lot. The other two times were not as exciting.

The less improvement I see, the more I regret it.

I sometimes beat myself up about what I did to myself. It's not problems with cognition for me, it's emotional disturbances and more cynicism (also I tend use the language of a new age burnout).

I get those too, to some extent.

Matthew_reece there are things like "Schizophrenia" and "paranoia".

Yes, there are.

Supps like vinpocetine, huperzine, alcar, and altyrosine work well togethers.
All are found in a product named supp named adderllin.

I've tried huperzine A. I was really excited about it since it's supposed to work like donepezil, but I got no benefit from it.

How much physical activity do you do? I find routine exercise makes me feel much more balanced. Join a gym maybe?

Intense running every day for 30 minutes. It makes me feel better, but the cognitive effects are short-lived.

Also I don't know what your experience with piracetam (or other nootropics) is, but if I were you I'd give it another shot. Just because its not approved by mainstream science to treat anything doesn't mean its useless, especially since you're trying to treat something as complicated and unstudied as your brain.

They basically had no effect on me.

^
^
Excellent advice. Studies suggest that exercise can actually make you smarter. It promotes more positive thinking and combats certain mental disorders like depression or ocd.

Yes. Exercise helps, but if I miss a single day, I feel depressed and have even more trouble concentrating. Also, its effects on concentration are short-lived in my case.

 

[Monkeybizness]

for a little Rolling story here it goes

im a 21 year old Female student / currently not working

im not on either sides , but take my story how ever you may want to

i just RECENTLY stoped using mdma/x ..

for a little bit of history i was introduced to x about few years ago by a friend..

for about 2 years i used it ONCE every month or two (not more then twice a month).. rolling no more then just 10 times in a year ..

in Feb. 09 i moved out with my boyfriend , and after a few months of only pipes and bunk we FINALLY FOUND REAL GOOD STUFF.. tested them and the results were also amazing .. SO we got ourselves a stash .. these pills were awesome leaving us with no hangover ,letting us eat after we rolled and leaving the mdma glow the day after ..

it started off with two tab (always taking no more then 3 a night for each of us)every weekend then it escalated to rolling a Fri/Sat OR Sun. every weekend..


PLEASE NOTE DURING THE TIME WE WERE USING, IT WAS ALWAYS THE SAME PILL , NEVER CHANGED different color at times but same press (we always tried to get our fav color) ..

mid way through our 9 month binge we were rolling about 3 times a WEEK,every week of the month. (we would roll at least 1 weekday) and twice on the weekend intaking about 6 to 8 pills a week
we probably skipped a week in between those 9 months at some point but i dont really remember doing that ..

wow i can say that in 09 iv rolled alot, i mean ALOT i dont wanna say 200 but i did calculations really quick to round off and it gave me a pill count of 240 (EHHH)

it was mainly my fault . i really was enjoying the rolls we were having, and i dont regret rolling that much at all .. it was always me and my boyfriend rolling bawls at home, or the beach , exploring and enjoying the city ,having sex, talking & smoking it out .. it was awesome i loved every second of it till the last pill we dropped together .. we never rolled at the clubs or with other people always just us alone , attached by the hipbone .. cant be with out my babe


but with every action theres a reaction , and when you abuse any sort of drug foreign to your body there are consequences

it started off with weight lost
i lost alot of weight even though the pills were good it still suppressed my hunger both his and i,
my biggest first complaint right be for i stopped was real short term memory, sometimes when we were in the car on our way some where, i would forget where we were going , where we just came from , and sometimes what car i was even in . i would ask him "were the fuck are we going lol" or just were are we"? .. also at that time i was working at a clothing store , and when the customer would ask me to get something from the back room, by the time i ran back there i forgot what i was supposed to get .. horrible

i dont pay much mind when this happens i just ignore it, and move along. but it does bother .. i never suffered from any short term memory like this ..

then speech .. it would be hard to put words together at times , slurring , stuttering ..

also my body felt worn out . tired , and weak .

thats not the worst part

those are just side effect ..


when we stopped we actually went through withdrawals .. no sleep at night, allot of sweating at night, when we would wake up our bed was soaked , we were pale and weak , i got sick and my boyfriend would get fevers .. he went through the most physical withdrawals this only lasted about 3 weeks .. it was really weird ..

i know we with drawled due to taking the SAME PILL so MANY times a week FOR 9 months
i remember the last 3 months before we quite we were Strictly taking our fav colored ones..

NOW lets make some sense of this

obviously after getting your body use to intaking the SAME thing for 9 months few times a week when you stop you are OBVIOUSLY going to suffer some with drawls

im sure if we would have taken a variety of diff press pills with diff chemicals regardless of what they had in them, this would have not happened

........................................................................................................................

so what am i doing to deal with this ..

nothing ...
i stopped and i know my body will heal its self little by little ..
i know there not permanent but it will take some time to recover a little ..
i honestly don't even want to roll in a while , al tho im still tempted lol at time
and crave that oh so good feeling ..


so take my story how you will but im writing this with all honesty ..


so for those of you that go around not respecting the drug/ or drugs you will get a little slap in the face ..

this is a HARM REDUCTION WEB SITE .. and i hate it ESPECIALLY when MODS state that theres no possible way that mdma can cause any harm/and there is nothing absolutely wrong with using ....... MIND YOU this is a drug we are talking about and as much as we may love it and enjoy it , IT IS NOT FOR EVERY ONE .. i have read ridiculous comments on here STATING: it is impossible to over dose on mdma you can take 20 pills and not die ::: THIS IS A HARM REDUCTION WEB SITE and that is not harm reduction

this thread is way more informative then any other thread in the e section
right now .

there should be a big warning on this web site stating
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

 

[MazDan]

fand i hate it ESPECIALLY when MODS state that theres no possible way that mdma can cause any harm/and there is nothing absolutely wrong with using ....... MIND YOU this is a drug we are talking about and as much as we may love it and enjoy it , IT IS NOT FOR EVERY ONE .. i have read ridiculous comments on here STATING: it is impossible to over dose on mdma you can take 20 pills and not die ::: THIS IS A HARM REDUCTION WEB SITE and that is not harm reduction

When has it been stated by a MOD that there is no possible way that mdma can cause harm?

Where has someone said you can take 20 pills and not die???

 

[MazDan]

it started off with two tab (always taking no more then 3 a night for each of us)every weekend then it escalated to rolling a Fri/Sat OR Sun. every weekend..


mid way through our 9 month binge we were rolling about 3 times a WEEK,every week of the month. (we would roll at least 1 weekday) and twice on the weekend intaking about 6 to 8 pills a week
i stopped and i know my body will heal its self little by little ..


i know there not permanent but it will take some time to recover a little ..

How do you know its not permanent???

How do you know for 100% your body will recover?

You did not use this drug, you abused the drug.

You may very well have permanent damage.

 

[Toast to the Spirits]

The best things I have found are a good diet, regular exercise, and conscious effort to be stronger mentally. I also really like ginkgo biloba.

 

[JBrandon]

@ Matthew

I don't believe you are making your story up and I did notice a little cognitive "damage" after my one time use of MDMA, but it's been a full month and I'm not noticing anything at all anymore. I feel anything I am still noticing at this point is just the result of me looking for a problem.

I believe you are sincere but I think if you really got these symptoms after a one-time use there are only a few possible explanations, since (to me) it seems you are a statistical outlier in that almost no one reports symptoms like you after one use.

1) You didn't have MDMA at all. Maybe you had something brutal like MPTP. Now maybe you don't have Parkinson's, but a damaged dopamine system can explain the ADD-like symptoms and lack of motivation / tiredness you describe.

2) You are somehow genetically predisposed to brain damage. Just like how people with G6PD problems are prone to oxidative damage but appear normal until exposed to an oxidative agent... Maybe in some way you have a defect in your normal neural protective systems and the MDMA really did screw you up.

3) The problem has nothing to do with MDMA at all but rather had an onset due to unfortunate coincidence around the time of your abuse. This would be the most insidious because for life you are going to blame the MDMA.

-----

Personally my opinion is this - the cause of the damage or symptoms you describe does not matter. The problem is there for you now regardless of what did or didn't cause it.

Instead of trying so hard to pin it on the MDMA, why not try to move on with your life - do whatever you can to stay healthy, don't abuse any drug of any kind, and try to not fixate on the problem and enjoy life again.

I know it will be hard but I think therapy could go a long way for you.

No matter what happens, I do sincerely hope you feel better.

 

[JBrandon]

Also Matthew - you say you had a sleep study. That's what I do for a living. Oftentimes you are referred in for something like that because they suspect sleep apnea or PLMD so you just get a one-time nocturnal PSG.

If you are dead set on figuring out why you feel this way, I recommend you go back and have them perform a MSLT test and look for symptoms of narcolepsy. It is often hard to detect in a normal PSG because barring an extreme abnormality in REM onset you don't see too many indicative signs.

Narcolepsy can vary wildly - it can be pretty mild in fact and produce a lot of cognitive symptoms - lack of concentration, motivation, and fatigue like you describe! It can also onset in a very rapid manner (out of nowhere) during the teen and young adult years.

Just something for you to look into... You'd be surprised how many people come back with a Dx of idiopathic hypersomnia / insomnia / ADD who REALLY have a narcoleptic issue.

 

[JBrandon]

@Monkeybizness

To be quite honest with you this website actually stopped me cold from using MDMA for about six months. I was terrified to touch the stuff. I had never done it before and was going to just eat whatever random pills my girlfriend could find when I decided to do a little research first and I spent months on Bluelight.

This website made me not want to do the drug at all and when I finally did, I was at least able to take some degree of harm "reduction" by being sure to use a minimal dose, avoid redosing, and avoid using the drug for a second time.

If I had never found Bluelight I probably would have done some adulterated crap. If I had done real MDMA, I would have never known about the consequences of abuse or dangers of repeated use and I probably would have been rolling every weekend until I burned myself out and started looking for an explanation.

So I just wanted to voice in and say that yes, there are parts of this website that some people can take as a "bad" influence, but for me, the overall effect was actually to dissuade me from using and if I did use to at least do so with some idea of the risks.

The majority of the users of this site are willing to be honest about the negatives of the drugs (no matter the type), even if they love them. Bluelight is fantastic.

 

[Monkeybizness]

The best things I have found are a good diet, regular exercise, and conscious effort to be stronger mentally. I also really like ginkgo biloba.

this is exactly what im doing . you called it

since i stopped my minds a little more clear .
stretching exercises
reading
eating properly

 

[Matthew Reece]

@ Matthew

I don't believe you are making your story up and I did notice a little cognitive "damage" after my one time use of MDMA, but it's been a full month and I'm not noticing anything at all anymore. I feel anything I am still noticing at this point is just the result of me looking for a problem.

I believe you are sincere but I think if you really got these symptoms after a one-time use there are only a few possible explanations, since (to me) it seems you are a statistical outlier in that almost no one reports symptoms like you after one use.

The last part is not exactly true. Look around this forum. There are a few people complaining of negative effects after one time use. If you even consider my case, it took me 5 years to even show up here and post anything on the subject.

1) You didn't have MDMA at all. Maybe you had something brutal like MPTP. Now maybe you don't have Parkinson's, but a damaged dopamine system can explain the ADD-like symptoms and lack of motivation / tiredness you describe.

That's quite possible. It's one of my theories.

2) You are somehow genetically predisposed to brain damage. Just like how people with G6PD problems are prone to oxidative damage but appear normal until exposed to an oxidative agent... Maybe in some way you have a defect in your normal neural protective systems and the MDMA really did screw you up.

That's another of my theories. I'm not blaming MDMA or advocating that people stop using it. I'm just looking for people who might have similar problems and trying to figure out mine.

3) The problem has nothing to do with MDMA at all but rather had an onset due to unfortunate coincidence around the time of your abuse. This would be the most insidious because for life you are going to blame the MDMA.

I was rejected by my girlfriend and cried during the come-down. That's the closest to a coincidence I can think of, and I doubt that would cause all those symptoms.

-----

Personally my opinion is this - the cause of the damage or symptoms you describe does not matter. The problem is there for you now regardless of what did or didn't cause it.

I disagree. If it is due to the MDMA / adulterated MDMA, then I can do some research on how to fix it - or learn that I can't fix it - like I am doing now.

If it's not, I can stop feeling so guilty. I would much rather believe that it's depression or sleep apnea than something I caused.

Instead of trying so hard to pin it on the MDMA, why not try to move on with your life - do whatever you can to stay healthy, don't abuse any drug of any kind, and try to not fixate on the problem and enjoy life again.

Probably because I feel fatigued so often, because things that used to be enjoyable are not, and because it's so difficult to concentrate sometimes.

I know it will be hard but I think therapy could go a long way for you.

That's what I am currently doing.

No matter what happens, I do sincerely hope you feel better.

Thank you. You should understand that I'm not interested in blaming the MDMA. I really believe that most first-time users are not being affected like I was. The most likely explanation is that I'm more genetically susceptible, or that the depression accounts for all my symptoms.

 

[Matthew Reece]

Also Matthew - you say you had a sleep study. That's what I do for a living. Oftentimes you are referred in for something like that because they suspect sleep apnea or PLMD so you just get a one-time nocturnal PSG.

If you are dead set on figuring out why you feel this way, I recommend you go back and have them perform a MSLT test and look for symptoms of narcolepsy. It is often hard to detect in a normal PSG because barring an extreme abnormality in REM onset you don't see too many indicative signs.

I'll look into it once I can afford it. I actually wasn't referred-in for my sleep study. I asked for it because I didn't feel like I was getting refreshing, quality sleep and wanted to rule out sleeping problems for my cognitive difficulties.

Narcolepsy can vary wildly - it can be pretty mild in fact and produce a lot of cognitive symptoms - lack of concentration, motivation, and fatigue like you describe! It can also onset in a very rapid manner (out of nowhere) during the teen and young adult years.

Just something for you to look into... You'd be surprised how many people come back with a Dx of idiopathic hypersomnia / insomnia / ADD who REALLY have a narcoleptic issue.

Thanks. I didn't know that, and I will look into it. For the record, I've had an EEG during somnolence and it came back normal.

 

[LonE1]

I abused heavily, and I still am dealing with some paranoia that occurs every once in a while. My suggestion would be to slow down because you might turn out like me if you abuse more.

I am getting better, and ive learned that your seratonin axals will eventually repair themselves, and there are days when Ill feel amazing, just absolutly amazing...but it comes and goes. I just know that I am getting better with time.

Get excercise, vitimens, and keep off the drugs.

 

[LonE1]

Btw Jbrandon I know you sound so sure of yourself after trying ex once, but keep in mind everyone is different, and dont bank on the fact that you did mdma once that negative effects could never happen to you.


I was there...about 4 years ago.

 

[LonE1]

BTW mazdaz I really dont appreciate the incredibly selfish response as a SENIOR MODERATOR to be giving "advice" as "you may very well have permanent damage"

There are plenty of storys on here about people who have indeed recovered from their mdma abuse; in fact their are storys of people, like the OP who have had problems after only a few times of using, not abusing, mdma.

The point is all people are different, and for you as a MODERATOR come off saying that some people might indeed have permanent damage, is extremely selfish, because unless you have a logical amount of information that proves this theory of yours to be correct, backed up with evidence of certain people who have actual permanent damage from abusing mdma, and havent gotten just maybe somewhat better due to excercise and living healthy, then I suggest you rethink some of your responses.

I expected alot better from this site, no offense.

 

[Woodrowbt]

I've abused. I've taken days in a row, to every weekend, to spreading it out after a while to once a month for a few years.


Only side effect from abuse was bad hangovers and come down.... Spread it out and that really wasnt an issue.


I dunno.....i just don't see how it is possible from MY experiences and ALL of my friend's to have these negative side effects from 3 uses! I've watched my friends and I abuse for years with NO side effects.


i dunno....*Shrug*

 

[JBrandon]

Btw Jbrandon I know you sound so sure of yourself after trying ex once, but keep in mind everyone is different, and dont bank on the fact that you did mdma once that negative effects could never happen to you.


I was there...about 4 years ago.

I wasn't trying to sound like I've rolled my balls off - I'm the first person to admit I've only done it one time... In fact, I've been pretty open about the effects I had that were negative as well as positive.

I think you missed the point of my post... All I wanted to express was that the majority of people don't report symptoms as severe as Matthew's after one use of the drug. That's why I said statistically he seems to be a rare case.

He's got some real problems that I'm more inclined to believe would be linked to depression that had an onset around the period of his MDMA use than true serotonin system destruction from the drugs but there are so many variables I don't think anyone will ever be able to conclusively say what really happened - let alone a bunch of strangers on an internet forum.

As for your comment to MazDan about the permanency of damage - how do you know someone cannot cause permanent damage to themselves with the drug?

Unless you are a neurologist slumming it on this board that is

 

[clay404]

I posted a similar question on a nootropics forum .

you could try tianeptine (stablon) but it is expensive depending on what country you live in. I've read that it has helped some people with MDMA induced depression.

Also - St. John's Wort or Piracetam could be a good candidate. I would try one of these for a few months.

Seriously though, I find that if I don't even much about my former abuse, I am several times better. I don't really even notice any cognitive deficits until I start thinking or reading about them. The mind is a powerful thing and worrying about a condition can cause symptom manifestation.

I wish there were a post-MDMA restorative medicine or therapy program out there but I don't know of one.

 

[clay404]

^ well should we just give up all hope then? Any ideas on what we can do to help our brains now that they are screwed?