Skydancer -- A Democratic Bluelight *see first post for link to Skydancer's response*

^^^
ED I think - I think Mashie put it there....N2E had 'New? read this thread first', which had answers to basically every question, stickied - but no-one read that either.

And they were both full of 'can I take prozac and still ROLL BALLZ?' threads. It's kinda comforting to see that some things haven't changed.
 
And that impoves things how, Medi?

I'll concede that isn't a good reflection of Catch-22 (assuming it's him, and I think we'd all put our paycheck it is the same individual). But it was posted nearly a year before this thread became a hot topic - so it probably is less related to this particular issue (and admittedly related to his overall philosophy). Then again, who has ever run something and didn't feel that way at some time or another? I feel that way all the time at my job :x

Context, that's what I'm looking for and it isn't there.

BUT, as this thread has resurfaced (rather than being swept under the carpet or moved to WoBL or outright deleted) - let's see if there *is* any further constructive discussion that can be made. Or if we've all settled into our comfort level of living with life as it's been and we don't care to try anymore. I'm listening...I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm listening.
 
It seems to me that the summary of the entire thread was that Catch-22 was the problem with bluelight (whether or not that's true isn't the issue - that's what this thread seems to conclude). Since he has virtually vanished from the public view (he's made 16 posts this year, and only 1 since this thread was started) then if he was indeed the problem then the problem is gone, at least publically.

If anything bluelight has since become more democratic, because of the power of protest. No major position changes have been made, and no heads have rolled, but I get the feeling that there is no longer an atmosphere that those in charge can do whatever they like whenever they like. Minor things can still be done at will, but radical changes will be more carefully considered in the future. And that's probably the best balance bluelight could hope for.
 
Originally posted by TheLoveBandit
Or if we've all settled into our comfort level of living with life as it's been and we don't care to try anymore. I'm listening...I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm listening.

:)

i try to believe that things have improved but i genuinely fear that people have just given up and are getting on with things in the knowledge that their say is worth less. or worthless?

example: What about a video game forum?

a decision was made to redirect all this content to the f&t forum and nobody bothered to ask the moderators of that forum how they felt. this is not meant to single anybody out - it's just an example of how things continue to be done without consideration for those who you think might deserve consideration. that's all.

alasdair
 
That was more just confusion of some thinking that the F&T mods had given their approval and being quick to move things.
 
given that none of the f&t mods posted anything in that thread, i'm not sure how people could think they had given their approval...

anyway, i understand this is a minor aside.

alasdair
 
Well, given that the person who did it was GL, and hardly any ADMIN, I dont think it's that big of a deal. I'm sure it was a matter of just being excited and eager to help out.
 
i understand that. some people are suggesting there has been some big change as a result of this discussion. i'm trying to show, with reference to one simple example, that as far as i can tell, absolutely nothing has really changed.

this thread has 490 posts in it from some of the most respected BLers (in my opinion). that is a huge amount of valuable discussion.

i'm truly struggling to understand what all the talk achieved. that's all.

alasdair
 
Originally posted by alasdairm
i try to believe that things have improved but i genuinely fear that people have just given up and are getting on with things in the knowledge that their say is worth less. or worthless?


certainly i don't think the issues that i've raised (and that others have raised in this thread) have been solved. i just figured it wasn't enough for me to up and leave the site; so instead i gave up trying to do anything about them.
 
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Originally posted by alasdairm
i understand that. some people are suggesting there has been some big change as a result of this discussion. i'm trying to show, with reference to one simple example, that as far as i can tell, absolutely nothing has really changed.

i'm truly struggling to understand what all the talk achieved. that's all.


I think you'll be struggling for a while, ali, along with the rest of us, to see what changes have occurred. :\
 
Originally posted by onetwothreefour
...so instead i gave up trying to do anything about them.

it's comments like this - given the huge amount of passion and goodwill poured into the site by volunteers - which sadden me.

alasdair
 
First, a specific point - the "Games" threads moving to F&T was a mistake on my part. GL asked for guidance, I misread the posts in the thread and I thought the F&T mods had replied. GL simply went with my recommendation to move the threads to F&T. This exercise shows a mark against the current staff for acting quickly while not having everyone's input (as I said, I thought I did have their input - but nonetheless, a hasty decision). But it should also serve as a mark FOR the current staff, in that once the mistake was realized, the situation was quickly addressed and resolved.

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Now for a more general look back at the past year. A lot of the uproar was regarding wholesale changes to staff and site structure by a select few without consideration of those effected. To be honest, over the past 6+ months, we've had very few instances of staff changes that weren't obviously needed. Yes, there are a few specific cases that caused some confusion and hurt feelings, but for the most part, staff changes have been a lot smoother. I know for my forums, the input of the mods is greatly utilized in selecting replacements, and I assume (yes, assume) it has been this way for most of the other forums also. Despite the fact that the 'post counts' still exist, the majority of removals have been for a lack of effort - both quality AND quantity, not just the number of posts in one's forum. I know several of you can point to at least one staff change you felt was uncalled for or a mistake, but overall - has the number and types of staff changes improved? Has the way in which they are handled improved?

As for the site structure, have we had forums merged/destroyed, or even (sub)forums created which didn't make sense? That were thought of and executed by a select few without input from the staff and members that would be effected? To my recollection, this area of concern has also been improved. But perhaps you can correct me? Is the site not operating better in this respect?

The third area of concern is that there is little to no accountability for people in higher positions. I think most of you will agree with me, that with our structure remaining fairly the same over this past year, this issue is still something we can improve upon. I've stated before, it's more of a top down control system - Sr. Admins want something done, they ask Admins to make it happen, and the mods are pushed in that direction. Any reversing of that control is at the discretion of those who are willing to listen, an ideal which is dependant upon the personality of those involved :\ The problem with more bottom up control is the real possibility of paralysis. This is something of a catch-22 (no pun intended) in that too many voices will cause any decisions to never be reached, merely debated endlessly - that's where the executive decisions have been effective, in getting changes made (regardless if you agree with the decision, it showed the way for action).

++++++++++++
*sigh* Here I go again, in a tailspin of thought - I'll stop now with two issues I see still needing to be addressed:

1) Accountability - (Sr.) Admins aren't removed unless they quit, or someone higher than them sees a need to remove them. Discussions with us shouldn't be ended with 'because I'm an (Sr.) Admin and I say so.' But the same can go to mods in dealing with members ;) A lot of people still operate in fear of losing their position instead of fear about hurting the site and it's members. There is not a feeling that people can voice their concerns, or if they do it won't be heard, and if it is heard nobody cares or will address it. This needs to change - how, I'm not sure.

2) The site has had relative stability and smooth operations for quite sometime (meaning forum structure), but this is due mainly to a lack of viable ideas, IMO. The Sr. Admins have backed away and aren't driving their own vision, but there haven't been any realistic suggestions from elsewhere. Probably the closest to that was the 'Computer Tech' forum suggestion. In several of the forums I work with, we've asked for member input on ideas and ways to improve what the site/forum can offer to its members, but very little has come from these requests. A lack of vision creates a calmness, a status quo, but staying stagnant isn't always the best decision.

Please, anyone, offer suggestions - let's see what feasible, what's best for the site from where it is right now. I don't have solutions of my own, but that also means I'm not pushing an agenda ;) lol.
 
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alasdairm said:
bump. any thoughts on this new day?

alasdair
Click to expand...

i don't know either ?? is there less dissension amongst mods & admins?? i have not noticed very much but then i don't visit very often.
 
There is noticably less dissention amongst mods and admins. There are a few persons who are upset at times, a part of life in that not everyone can be pleased. But for the most part I'd say there is much more harmony amongst the staff and the forum members overall. And, there is a more open dialogue in trying to further increase the transparency and accountability for everyone. Case in point, an ongoing discussion on how to select mods without Admins or mods making private selections...or at least some form of more open selection and review. See this thread for more.
 
There isn't?? Did you see that thread in Support that Spore deleted?

That was chock full of dissension.
 
I definitely don't consider that thread "chock full of dissension". A feud between cliques, maybe. If you think things now are anything like how they were two years ago, even one year ago, I'm not sure what to say.
 
the point is, nobody is arbitrarily deleting forums without discussing it with anybody anymore. That's a good thing.
 
randycaver said:
There isn't?? Did you see that thread in Support that Spore deleted?

That was chock full of dissension.
Click to expand...

The site is nowhere close to the level of 'single handed management' (for lack of a more PC term) which brought this thread into existence. Can you point to an ongoing level of unrest or fear that permeates all levels of staff and effects the foruma and members as we were subject to back then? As to Spore's recent thread in SUPPORT you refer to, it's been deleted by the OP, so referencing it does little good to anyone like xtcxtc or anyone else at this point since they can't see it.

But you are partially correct - that thread did have a lot of anger within it. However, it was amongst a handful of persons, who appear to have an ongoing issue with each other. Despite dropping to the level of personal attacks and embarrassing themselves and the site, there could actually have been a chance to address some issues until the thread got deleted. I've linked to a new thread which is addressing part of the issue - a desire to continue improving mod selections and transparency on site operations. The other half of that discussion, the one regarding favoritism, or cliques, was taken to a personal level between the involved parties, unfortunately, thereby killing much of the credibility and respect that could have been maintained in such a discussion. The remnants of it are still being kicked about in the current linked thread, with much a much better approach to solving any issues.

I really hope this thread doesn't fall to becoming another firestorm, and destroy the discussion as was done before Spore's thread was deleted. And I'm not sure if this thread or the current one in SUPPORT would be the appropriate place to try and address the remaining concern of favoritism in management (heh, that wasn't the problem when this thread was created, ironically). But I would like to see it addressed by rational persons working in the best interest of the site, putting aside personal issues and grudges. I'm just not sure where.
 
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