Skydancer -- A Democratic Bluelight *see first post for link to Skydancer's response*

TLB... I don't think you would get more complaints from current mods than you would from ex-mods. Those who are still around probably don't see much of a problem with how things are. I think this is an issue of how things WERE handled as opposed to how they're handled now...which from the surface seems like minimal effort has been made to make changes, though you claim otherwise. Basically, the damage was done and this thread became a backlash of those events.

I don't see xtcxtc saying things are fine now. I certainly don't see any kind of sympathy from the true higher ups about this situation. I believe you are a staff member who does want to make this situation reach an agreeable solution for all those involved...but at the same time I doubt you can ever do this, at least without serious structural changes within the current administration setup. Since that seems to be out of the question, this is basically an argument that will just eventually die out because one side sees no hope in gaining any of their wishes without significant change...or this could snowball and greatly harm Bluelight if our benefactor cuts funding. I anticipate the former and not the latter.
 
Yeah, TLB, I'm with Jeff. It's not so much a case of being silent because the necessary changes have been made, it's a case of being silent because it's obvious that nothing I/we say will have any impact on anything. So it's better to accept things how they are, and put my energy into areas where I can have an impact.
 
I'll concede there are limits to what I can impact as well. That includes changing management above me, or even at my level to a large degree (meaning other admins). So yes, that basic flaw will always exist for any site owned by a single person instead of a group - and you are both correct in that skydancer's position (and control) ultimately won't change, AFAIK.

The xtcxtc funding could become an issue, one for which skydancer is probably prepared, but that's only known by him. As for xtcxtc not saying things are better ... he's kind of disappeared since this flare up. Granted, he didn't lead the rebellion, merely carried enough gravitas to bring it to the forefront. He's not here still demanding/asking for changes, which we can't take as acceptance or giving up or anything really, it can only be taken as his absence :\ But I'll contact him to see if there is anything more he'd like put into this.

Back to my first statement - limited ability to control things - I have asked to be associated with several of the areas where the more obvious objections came from and am doing whatever is within my ability to address. Like Jeff said, trying to reach an agreeable position for both sides - but it does have the limitation of not reaching or changing Sr. Admin decisions, positions, or personnel. Your energies *can* be put into areas where we (you and I) have an impact, and for that I'm still keeping an open ear and mind to see what we can do to improve life on BL for both members and staff. I imagine the other Admins, having grown up on the same BL you and I did, are doing what they can to help as well (I've seen as much from BA in the Staff Forum). So, within our limited areas to effect....what can we do to make things better?

**One thing stuck in my head is still the transparency issues Blue Lava and alasdair, if I remember correctly, touched on earlier and I'd like to work towards. But, I ramble on...better get out and enjoy the weekend a bit, take this online stuff a little less life-critical ;)
 
Uuh, after reading this thread I still don't really get what should have to be changed.. Can't one of you guys sum up all of the points in a list? That would make the whole situation a lot clearer..
 
Originally posted by TheLoveBandit
Those mods that are still in place, or who've been added, how many of them still grumble behind closed doors? How many changes have happened with that 'Deal with it or leave' attitude? How many forums have members and mods that actually feel they have some say in what happens in their forums as opposed to a year ago? As opposed to 3 months ago?


There is one thing that happened particularly recently that I thought was bullshit. :\
 
TheLoveBandit said:
The xtcxtc funding could become an issue, one for which skydancer is probably prepared, but that's only known by him.
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trust me...without alan, there is no bluelight...no one can afford to pay the bills this place accumulates. i hope to god he cuts the funding, cause that will actually force some changes for the better.
 
Originally posted by TheLoveBandit
Without public statement from Sr. Admins, I sincerely believe things are running smoother and staff/members are more happy than they've been in quite awhile.

another conclusion is that people are not happier - they've simply given up expressing unhappiness because they now know that it has little effect?

Originally posted by TheLoveBandit
How many changes have happened with that 'Deal with it or leave' attitude? How many forums have members and mods that actually feel they have some say in what happens in their forums as opposed to a year ago?

i know there's no way of saying this without it sounding like sour grapes but the moderators of film and television probably feel right now that their say is worth nothing.

Originally posted by TheLoveBandit
But, IMO, we are functioning better than before, the site is healthier than before (discounting troll issues)

i'm not sure how one quantifies or qualifies something like this but i am interested to know what kind of metrics apply. could you (or anybody) give a few examples of how we're functioning better and in what sense the site is healthier?

continued thanks for this debate

alasdair
 
I tried to pad my statement as much as possible, since it was my opinion and not based on hard facts. I won't spit out site statistics before/after because I don't have access to them, alasdair is right it'd be tough to pick what metrics to use and grade them, and quite honestly I think most staff are not real happy with giving weight to site statistics as it is (that quantity vs quality thing so many have an issue with).

My statements were based primarily on the areas I have some control over (EDD being a prime example, and while it isn't necessarily better or worse than before, I would venture to say the mods and members are more happy having a say in how it operates). I have to admit there are some areas outside of my responsibilities where I don't have much say or control - such is the way of the world, not just bluelight.

As for those still disguntled, I again offer/ask what is within our power (yours and mine) to effect, and let's see what we can do to use those areas to make life better for all. I'm only 1/5 of the Admins, lacking the power or control of a Sr. Admin, and I realize I look somewhat pathetic in trying to make the best of what we can knowing there is so much we can't effect - but to give up and not make what changes we (you and I) can control, that to me is more pathetic.

I'd always try to make improvements locally, hoping it can grow into a more global change - rather than trying to change the world and tehn give up realizing I can't.
 
tlb, i think i speak for many when i say that you are a shining light on this board. <3
 
could you (or anybody) give a few examples of how we're functioning better...?


The main improvement I see is:

Staff memebrs as well as regular users can now expect a more timely response when raising issues with the administration. Previously, many areas were under the exclusive domain of the Senior Admins, and we Admins didn't have the knowledge or the authority to respond to issues in those areas.

Now there are Admins responsible for all areas, and thus one of us can respond much more quickly than the Senior Admins. This allows for more dialogue and hopefully a better outcome, or at least a better understanding of the outcome.
 
Any response from C-22 at all? Since a large part of the frustrations seem to be directly almost solely at him?

To me, he hasn't reached his "quota" at all, and should be taken down from his perch.
 
He checks the forums pretty much every day, but has only posted once since this thread was started, so I doubt he'll bother posting in here.
 
Catch-22 has obviously worked very hard for this site in the past, I understand that. However, the new question becomes "is he working hard enough for the site now?". I honestly don't know the answer because I have no communication with him or anything of the like. However, from a member's viewpoint he seems to be doing close to nothing. Just an observation.
 
frizzantik said:
could you (or anybody) give a few examples of how we're functioning better...?


The main improvement I see is:

Staff memebrs as well as regular users can now expect a more timely response when raising issues with the administration. Previously, many areas were under the exclusive domain of the Senior Admins, and we Admins didn't have the knowledge or the authority to respond to issues in those areas.

Now there are Admins responsible for all areas, and thus one of us can respond much more quickly than the Senior Admins. This allows for more dialogue and hopefully a better outcome, or at least a better understanding of the outcome.
Click to expand...

Frizz, is the information about who is responsible for what posted anywhere? I didn't see it in the 'About' section, which is where I would have thought it would be.

I honestly have no idea how the BL system works now, or who I would contact for a response on a specific issue. And if I don't, what chance does a newbie have?
 
it should probably be linked there, but it is the last thread in announcements, and it was stickied at the top of the lounge for quite some time. i also wonder, given how often it seems a newbie-type doesn't bother reading any sort of guidelines or the user agreement, how it could possibly be better publicized (of course i'm open to suggestions).

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184878&r=0
 
TLB: just to pick up on something you said, I don't think anyone was advocating that Skydancer leave. Some people who posted in this thread think that C22 should step down, but equally many of us don't. Just want to clarify that this shouldn't be about personalities but about issues.

Blowmonkey [the following is my own interpretation, but I think these are the issues that were bugging people]:

- lack of communication from above about plans for BL
- lack of consultation about what should be done, with changes presented as a fait accompli (it never used to be like that, mods would be consulted about changes to their forums and now you can have major changes imposed on forums without any discussion)
- the Euro Drug Discussion situation, where members were given a choice between two alternatives which they didn't want, and told by Catch-22 not to even bother posting replies complaining about the change, because he wasn't going to read them.
-overly rigid approach to working with mods - see for example mods who are dismissed for failing to meet a given postcount, even some who've been dismissed for missing a monthly count by three posts. Now, none-active mods have always been a problem, but there always used to be more relaxed, but workable, ways of dealing with it - e.g. email them, ask if they still want to be involved. The usual response was 'no, I'm too busy, you'll need to find someone else'. It worked.

So it's just generally a feeling that the site is being run a lot more hierarchically, with less consultation and less communication. And I know Skydancer said he didn't have time to spend hours a week on communication, but communication is the most important part of a project, a business, whatever. In most tasks, the technical aspect of the task is relatively trivial - the hard part is getting people to support what you're doing. And it seems to me that there's a lot of focus now on the behind the scenes aspects of the board, to the neglect of the social/communication/change management aspects.
 
michael said:
i also wonder, given how often it seems a newbie-type doesn't bother reading any sort of guidelines or the user agreement, how it could possibly be better publicized (of course i'm open to suggestions).
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Nobody every checks the announcements forum because annoucements are hardly ever made. The old "announcements and feedback" forum should never have been split in two.

Maybe combine anouncements back into the support forum (previously called feedback). Either that or make use of board wide sticky threads (if that's possible).
 
michael said:
it should probably be linked there, but it is the last thread in announcements, and it was stickied at the top of the lounge for quite some time. i also wonder, given how often it seems a newbie-type doesn't bother reading any sort of guidelines or the user agreement, how it could possibly be better publicized (of course i'm open to suggestions).

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184878&r=0
Click to expand...

Oh, my bad...I misinterpreted what we were talking about. I had seen that. I thought that Frizzantik meant something else in terms of "areas" (like, I don't know 'responding to media enquiries' rather than 'forums x, y, and z').

Forget I spoke ;)

But Pleo's right about Announcements - should have stayed as one forum.
 
heh, i just remember the big pink scrolling banner at the top of ED (or maybe new to E?) that still didn't get people to read it.

:)
 
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