Skydancer -- A Democratic Bluelight *see first post for link to Skydancer's response*

As one of the more outspoken advocates for the removal of C22, I am happy to say that, in my own experience, Bluelight is a helluva lot better now than it was when this thread was started. While I am no longer directly involved with any moderation or administration, I feel that my concerns will at least be listened to if I should ever feel the need to speak up again. Luckily, the people who are currently at the reigns of this site are people that I have a great deal of faith in.
 
yes, Luckily, they are your friends, and therefore, they will listen to you.

AFAIK, C-22 was nobody's friend, but he was still a dick. I'm glad his reign is over - but even though I feel there is favoritism now, it's not like there is much I could do about it while 3 good friends IRL are admin of BL.

It's easy to weed out people who have unrest when they're all good buddies :) but oh well - i've moved on; I know that I will never be a moderator again.. but I still do have interest in BL and its further success.

when friends work together, they become blind to certain things. that's just the best way i can sum it up.
 
hahahaha, xtcxtc, you shit stirrer you. Dragging up a long dead thread.
 
randycaver said:
yes, Luckily, they are your friends, and therefore, they will listen to you.

AFAIK, C-22 was nobody's friend, but he was still a dick. I'm glad his reign is over - but even though I feel there is favoritism now, it's not like there is much I could do about it while 3 good friends IRL are admin of BL.

It's easy to weed out people who have unrest when they're all good buddies :) but oh well - i've moved on; I know that I will never be a moderator again.. but I still do have interest in BL and its further success.

You are resigned to never being a mod again. Try losing your precious postcount and having to start over again with a whole new name as well...

oh, wait... you are already somewhat familiar with people changing nicks.

^^ My point is that while I am friends with some of the admins here, there are no favors being granted. I wouldn't ask, and they wouldn't give.

On the other side of the token is the fact that these are people I know I can trust when I DO have an issue. I also know these people well enough that if they tell me to fuck off, I should listen. THAT is what it was like "back in the day". When we were all friends, we all listened to what the community was saying, we all did our part and we all had fun. That last bit was the most important part. It was fun coming here. When catch-22 started running this place more like a corporation it stopped being fun.

So yes, I am friends with people. That does not make my opinion any less valid. When I change my nickname, then you can start insinuating about "friends".
 
Randycaver, what happened with you and the whole admin thing ?? Is there gossip there? I *love* gossip :)
 
ego_loss said:
You are resigned to never being a mod again. Try losing your precious postcount and having to start over again with a whole new name as well...

oh, wait... you are already somewhat familiar with people changing nicks.

^^ My point is that while I am friends with some of the admins here, there are no favors being granted. I wouldn't ask, and they wouldn't give.

On the other side of the token is the fact that these are people I know I can trust when I DO have an issue. I also know these people well enough that if they tell me to fuck off, I should listen. THAT is what it was like "back in the day". When we were all friends, we all listened to what the community was saying, we all did our part and we all had fun. That last bit was the most important part. It was fun coming here. When catch-22 started running this place more like a corporation it stopped being fun.

So yes, I am friends with people. That does not make my opinion any less valid. When I change my nickname, then you can start insinuating about "friends".


Yes, after years of nasty pm's and shit that I and others took from you, you had to change your name. I recall some pretty vicious behavior from you.. it got to a point where it was showing definite favoritism if something WASNT done.

it's not like you were IP banned.

I think c-22 might have meant well in the beginning, by varying up the mod group with people who weren't friends, but just like everyone else, power went to his head.
 
randycaver said:
I think c-22 might have meant well in the beginning, by varying up the mod group with people who weren't friends, but just like everyone else, power went to his head.

i am certain he did & am sure he was a very nice guy back then. he did a lot of very good work for BL but there must have been many headaches from mods & others & he became too dictatorial.

i am pleased to see some of the old admins have resigned which i think is a good thing as

1 ) it gives them a break from the large workload.

2 ) it gives others a chance assist & gain experience.

randycaver you did a lot of good work for BL with the gallery & i remember one night when threads from the lounge were disappearing & maybe i posted to ask why --- you & Michael were deleting the spam as fast as it was appearing. boring & tiring & very admirable but i think all mods / admins should take a lot of time off, sooner or later.
 
I think xtcxtc may be alluding to staff turn over as a positive thing, in preventing management (site or forum) from getting stale, or anyone feeling like they own it and ought to run it any way they see fit (whether that is in line with the overall site direction or not :\ ). The tough part is to balance between turnover and freshness of minds vs stability and long term site direction. With too much turnover, any particular set of goals for a forum or for the site are subject to being changed midstream, or even golden goals not being reached because people don't stay long enough to understand everything necessary and put the time and effort towards those improvements before they change over. I say this as I know at times people have bandied about the concept of set time limits for positions - while xtcxtc didn't directly state that concept, I do know it strongly relates to the concept of staff turnover.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I would like to take a moment and comment on a few of the changes that have taken place since C22 left, primarily as a result of this thread and others like it. I will begin by saying that C22 left with a lot of people not liking what he did, but I also agree he went in with the best intentions and things got away from him. The single-person administration would lead to quick decisions, and quick action - which would get things accomplished (by that single person's visions), and with the size of this site there isn't the time for that single person to also try and accommodate other views. But anyways, he tried...didn't work out as planned, but did teach a lot of us lessons on what works and what doesn't.

Currently, the owner is hands off, and the site is run by a team of 6 admins (not a single person making all the decisions). Those admins work to an agreement on any changes (forums, or personnel) so there isn't the problem of a single minded direction. Since C22 left and the site operations were turned over to a team of Admins, and voting for replacements have been unanimous by those holding the position. Criteria for selection is primarily a history of showing long time contributions for the site and a stability to judge situations without personal bias. I will say that all the admins maintain respect for one another and we don't have any backdoor efforts being made, however we do have an Admin log showing if anyone does run amok and starts going out of control. That accountability exists, and is visible to the other admins and the owner. But it hasn't been necessary as nobody has been abusing the position. We work together for any and all site goals. I will also point out that having so many 'voters' to make changes does hamper the speed with which things can be implemented, but we've also built an operating procedure by which the admins can try to make changes in a reasonable time while allowing the others to have a say before something is acted upon. Typically, we give the others a few days to critique a proposed change before enacting it, or we can make it quicker with a majority approval. Still, this is a living process, open to refinement as we move forward.

We've created the senior mod position (perhaps, more accurately we've refined it as they weren't clearly defined when they were created). These positions are created to offer a pool of Admin candidates if needed and are granted some higher powers (ie, banning ability). These positions are filled by private selection amongst the Admins and current smods (about a dozen or so persons)- usually unanimous if not strong majority selection. Again, we have a moderator log showing anyone getting out of hand, but that has not been an issue, as the staff members of this position have not shown a tendency to abuse their authority.

Mods in general are no longer held arbitrary standards (post counts), but are accountable for their forum operations and actions. To my knowledge, most of the mods that have been removed without their wanting to step down have been primarily due to abandoning their post. There have been a few mods that have been forcibly removed, for abusing their position or trolling the site or attacking members - basically, behaviour unbecoming of a staff member - but again those decisions aren't reached or executed by a single person but by the group of admins reaching such a decision together, often with input from other staff members.

And lastly, while it isn't publicly viewable, we do try to let the staff know if changes are planned. Granted, despite the expectation that staff discussions stay private we know sometimes these things leak out. But the point is, if someone will be effected by any changes, we Admins try to let the effected mods know ahead of time so they can be prepared and help ease any transitions, as well as offer input on what exactly is the best direction for a forum to go.


- ah, more later. But this is long enough for now.

[edited for typos...and I'm sure I still missed a few]
 
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Sorry for bumping an old thread but is there anyone out there who knows what became of C22? I have heard lots of rumors about Hurricane Katrina... which, if I'm not mistaken, has always been strictly speculation. Anyway, I was wondering if this mystery was ever solved?
 
from dayfornight

ohh and since you dont think you need alan's funding, lets see what happens when he pulls it. maybe you'll listen to users a little more when we have to donate to keep this place going.

weird
 
An afterword, long after this issue has been decided:

Procedure is a very, very good thing. We certainly could have used more of it back in the early days of the board, but with extremely limited access to the site owners those of us who had been entrusted as administrators pretty much had to make everything up as we went along, as there weren't really any guidelines in place as to exactly what our jobs entailed or how we were supposed to come to decisions; pretty much it all boiled down to an informal, consensus-based decision making process.

Staffing decisions were largely contingent on who were both willing and able to help back in those days.

I'm thankful that, finally (and, unfortunately, a fair amount of time after I had resigned) that a formalized structure was developed so that Administrators and Moderators knew, definitively, what was up to their discretion and what was not. I wish such a structure had been present from Day 01, but it didn't seem like Jase and Skydancer expected anywhere near the amount of success and growth the site saw subsequently when they decided to replace the closing MDMA Clearing House at bluelight.net.

It looks like the process to get to this place of stability was kind of ugly, but it apparently has paid off.
 
Even the painful experiences were educational. And fwiw, we retained a lot of the 'learning' discussions in staff archives for future staffers to learn how we got to where we are.



I keep this thread bookmarked and revisit it periodically as a landmark by which to chart our progress. It might not be a clear solution and endpoint, but it helps gauge if we're moving in the right direction or not.
 
Even the painful experiences were educational. And fwiw, we retained a lot of the 'learning' discussions in staff archives for future staffers to learn how we got to where we are.



I keep this thread bookmarked and revisit it periodically as a landmark by which to chart our progress. It might not be a clear solution and endpoint, but it helps gauge if we're moving in the right direction or not.
That's very wise, and is also why I chimed in on this long-settled subject. How we got to where we're at was quite the proverbial Long Strange Trip, and it's only going to make the forum better for the twists and turns to be mapped.

(An aside: I actually had lunch with the guy who owned bluelight.net and the MDMA Clearing House a couple of months ago. He was ASTONISHED at what grew out of those humble beginnings.)
 
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