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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Seeking Advice for the Week from Hell...

What makes you think its fake? Ive bought plenty of headshop kratom and it all works if you take enough...

Loperamide is an option...
 
clovey2014 said:
I’m thinking subs are a better plan.
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Yikes, really? You really, honestly believe Suboxone to be the answer over Mother Nature? Not condemning you or Hydro by any means. Kratom was the only thing that could get me off Heroin/Fentanyl - and this is coming from someone who has been prescribed Methadone and Suboxone. Suboxone just feels like the dirtiest drug to me, puts you in the most hellacious head space. At least when I take Kratom it feels more natural and has less side effects. If you were addicted to opiates, the Red veins are going to be your best bet (If you tried Green or Yellows you may feel some anxiety that won't go away, at least this happens to me, the energy is too high).

Buying powder is definitely the way to go as you will get more bang for your buck and most likely absorb it better if you drink it with water/OJ. I have a lot of experience with withdrawals from various opiates and Kratom has been a saving grace in all of those addictions. Here to help you in any way possible.
 
Id agree suboxone is more sustainable for serious opioid abuse disorder.

That said, kratom is cheaper and certainly less addictive than suboxone (in terms of the withdrawal syndrome) so if you can use it in place of suboxone im 100% for it. I just think it doesn't work as well. Ive used plenty of it but im not a huge kratom fan as I feel the side-effects are worse than any opioid ive ever used (namely anxiety during onset, irritability during offset and sometimes extreme nausea) and add to that it requires constant redosing due to short duration (whenever ive developed a physical dependency on kratom i need to redose every 5 hours and wake up in withdrawal). Suboxone is more conducive to a normal lifestyle without out having to choke down green powder 5x a day but the withdrawal is far more severe. Personally id reserve the kratom for when one is ready to get off of suboxone for good (and able to quit the kratom too).

All praise to those who can use kratom successfully though as a substitute.
 
negrogesic said:
Id agree suboxone is more sustainable for serious opioid abuse disorder.

That said, kratom is cheaper and certainly less addictive than suboxone (in terms of the withdrawal syndrome) so if you can use it in place of suboxone im 100% for it. I just think it doesn't work as well. Ive used plenty of it but im not a huge kratom fan as I feel the side-effects are worse than any opioid ive ever used (namely anxiety during onset, irritability during offset and sometimes extreme nausea) and add to that it requires constant redosing due to short duration (whenever ive developed a physical dependency on kratom i need to redose every 5 hours and wake up in withdrawal). Suboxone is more conducive to a normal lifestyle without out having to choke down green powder 5x a day but the withdrawal is far more severe. Personally id reserve the kratom for when one is ready to get off of suboxone for good (and able to quit the kratom too).

All praise to those who can use kratom successfully though as a substitute.
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I only have to dose 1-2 times a day with Kratom, and the strain I use is an aged, fermented red vein. I agree that you should choose one or the other, not both.
 
My experience with Kratom is that it only helps the w/d after a certain point. I’ve always had to get past the “hump” of a day or so before the Kratom offered any relief. Perhaps it’s different for everyone, idk
 
Interesting points. I am also experimenting with Kava, Valerian Root, and other additives to my daily regime (Black Seed Ol, Ginger, Turmeric, etc) to see if I may be able to walk away from subs. It’s tricky. I mean subs are simpler- I know what I am getting, and it’s easy and manageable. But Kratom is a brand-new thing for me, so there are still several unknowns. And please don’t anyone take this the wrong way, but I was sober for some years and literally haven’t walked into a head shop to purchase anything in like a decade- so it kinda feels like I am going backwards, if that makes sense- even if Kratom is healthier. 🙃 Okay. From what you al said, I have decided to go grab some red powder tomorrow and start there...see if I can tame this dragon with some of that. Thank you all for your input, it’s invaluable... Nitey nite 🙏
 
OrbitalCombustion said:
I only have to dose 1-2 times a day with Kratom, and the strain I use is an aged, fermented red vein. I agree that you should choose one or the other, not both.
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Never have i come across a kratom, fermented or not (ive had the 'chocolate' reds) that lets me take it 1 to 2x a day. The max may be 6-7 hours between i start feeling an unease, increase in anxiety (evolving rapidly to joint pain and water eyes) and have to redose. Usually its more like 5 hours once hooked, i find kratom very compulsive due to its fast onset and fast offset. That said i usually end up max on 5-6g every 4.5 hours before i plateau and stop taking more (so i guess thats not that bad, the withdrawal from any other opioid would be much worse, the withdrawal from that only lasts 7-9 days total, and not very severe). That dose would be i suppose my 'stable' dose if i were using it as maintenance. Keep in mind im a former IV heroin user (10 years ago) and after that was on a mind boggling amount of methadone (380mg/day), so my needs may be higher than some as I am more sensitive to opioid withdrawal (a sort of brain version of muscle memory -- drug induced neuroplasticy, sensitization of receptors). Never been hooked on kratom for more than 60 days though so i'm not sure what dose id be at after a year (for me a the dose is limited by the severe nausea and GI side-effects). Never been hooked on any opioid for more than 60 days in about 7 year so i guess thats progress (*note to self).
 
negrogesic said:
Never have i come across a kratom, fermented or not (ive had the 'chocolate' reds) that lets me take it 1 to 2x a day. The max may be 6-7 hours between i start feeling an unease, increase in anxiety (evolving rapidly to joint pain and water eyes) and have to redose. Usually its more like 5 hours once hooked, i find kratom very compulsive due to its fast onset and fast offset. That said i usually end up max on 5-6g every 4.5 hours before i plateau and stop taking more (so i guess thats not that bad, the withdrawal from any other opioid would be much worse, the withdrawal from that only lasts 7-9 days total, and not very severe). That dose would be i suppose my 'stable' dose if i were using it as maintenance. Keep in mind im a former IV heroin user (10 years ago) and after that was on a mind boggling amount of methadone (380mg/day), so my needs may be higher than some as I am more sensitive to opioid withdrawal (a sort of brain version of muscle memory -- drug induced neuroplasticy, sensitization of receptors). Never been hooked on kratom for more than 60 days though so i'm not sure what dose id be at after a year (for me a the dose is limited by the severe nausea and GI side-effects). Never been hooked on any opioid for more than 60 days in about 7 year so i guess thats progress (*note to self).
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Thats good to hear you are doing better. I have been abusing opiates for 18 years, 10 years on heroin, 6 months of daily fentanyl use and 18 years of mixed oxycodone/prescription abuse. I used to eat Methadone like it was going out of style, but 380 mg a day, thats nuts. I have never witnessed the range in effects that Kratom provides. It also affects people so differently that I have been dumbfounded by what I've seen. The fermented red vein im using now is the closest thing I can get to the 'real' thing, in fact when I first tried this strain I was floored, even woke up with an opiate hangover. I'm sure you have already, but check out the potency and studies on 7OH-Mitragynine/mitragynine.
 
negrogesic said:
Never have i come across a kratom, fermented or not (ive had the 'chocolate' reds) that lets me take it 1 to 2x a day. The max may be 6-7 hours between i start feeling an unease, increase in anxiety (evolving rapidly to joint pain and water eyes) and have to redose. Usually its more like 5 hours once hooked, i find kratom very compulsive due to its fast onset and fast offset. That said i usually end up max on 5-6g every 4.5 hours before i plateau and stop taking more (so i guess thats not that bad, the withdrawal from any other opioid would be much worse, the withdrawal from that only lasts 7-9 days total, and not very severe). That dose would be i suppose my 'stable' dose if i were using it as maintenance. Keep in mind im a former IV heroin user (10 years ago) and after that was on a mind boggling amount of methadone (380mg/day), so my needs may be higher than some as I am more sensitive to opioid withdrawal (a sort of brain version of muscle memory -- drug induced neuroplasticy, sensitization of receptors). Never been hooked on kratom for more than 60 days though so i'm not sure what dose id be at after a year (for me a the dose is limited by the severe nausea and GI side-effects). Never been hooked on any opioid for more than 60 days in about 7 year so i guess thats progress (*note to self).
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I get the sensitivity to WD- I know we all here could tell war stories, but I used to be wayyy to fond of h or any opiate I could get my hands on in copious amounts. Glad those days are done. That’s great progress that you’ve put some space between you & the opiates- congrats. Subs are the only thing that let me put down the needle long enough to see there was life beyond it. Does that make sense? If I could figure out Kratom properly, I’d love to walk away from subs. It seems possible. I hate being a slave to any substance... Thanks for sharing this.
 
negrogesic said:
Never have i come across a kratom, fermented or not (ive had the 'chocolate' reds) that lets me take it 1 to 2x a day. The max may be 6-7 hours between i start feeling an unease, increase in anxiety (evolving rapidly to joint pain and water eyes) and have to redose. Usually its more like 5 hours once hooked, i find kratom very compulsive due to its fast onset and fast offset. That said i usually end up max on 5-6g every 4.5 hours before i plateau and stop taking more (so i guess thats not that bad, the withdrawal from any other opioid would be much worse, the withdrawal from that only lasts 7-9 days total, and not very severe). That dose would be i suppose my 'stable' dose if i were using it as maintenance. Keep in mind im a former IV heroin user (10 years ago) and after that was on a mind boggling amount of methadone (380mg/day), so my needs may be higher than some as I am more sensitive to opioid withdrawal (a sort of brain version of muscle memory -- drug induced neuroplasticy, sensitization of receptors). Never been hooked on kratom for more than 60 days though so i'm not sure what dose id be at after a year (for me a the dose is limited by the severe nausea and GI side-effects). Never been hooked on any opioid for more than 60 days in about 7 year so i guess thats progress (*note to self).
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So, do you purposely only do something for 60 days, then switch it up, due to that “brain muscle memory” as you put it so well??
 
clovey2014 said:
I get the sensitivity to WD- I know we all here could tell war stories, but I used to be wayyy to fond of h or any opiate I could get my hands on in copious amounts. Glad those days are done. That’s great progress that you’ve put some space between you & the opiates- congrats. Subs are the only thing that let me put down the needle long enough to see there was life beyond it. Does that make sense? If I could figure out Kratom properly, I’d love to walk away from subs. It seems possible. I hate being a slave to any substance... Thanks for sharing this.
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I was able to quit Heroin and even fentanyl with Kratom, its possible.
 
clovey2014 said:
So, do you purposely only do something for 60 days, then switch it up, due to that “brain muscle memory” as you put it so well??
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No, 60 days is the simply the longest ive let an addiction run before forcing myself to quit.
 
Loperamide really helps me when I run myself out of morphine early.

50 mg holds me for the day.
(this is dangerous and can hurt your heart)
Just be sure not to take it for very long.
3-5 days top or there are some very bad prices to be paid.

I have recently tried Kratom for these situations also and have been pleasantly surprised.
You kinda have to work with it and see what the right combo works for you.
I have found a combo of the Loperamide at lower doses (20-30 mg) and 6 Kratom capsules works great!
 
shroomyboom said:
@clovey2014 Glad to hear it. 😄 Sounds like you're making progress and looking stuff up which is a good place to start.

Black seed oil is a little tough to find in stores, I generally just get it from Amazon. But it's a helpful home remedy for everything. Bioperine (ingredient in black pepper) is known as a potentiator for many things and will help digest kratom. And it helps w/ aches, pain, and circulation by itself. You might notice that most turmeric formulations come mixed with bioperine, otherwise it's not digested as well. So make sure any turmeric you get has bioperine too.

Also if kratom is gross to consume for you, consider mixing it with some OJ, put some honey and cinnamon in it, and maybe it'll go down easier. Honey and cinnamon have their own health benefits as well. And the citric acid in OJ does the work of digesting the plant matter and alkaloids for you, so it works better and is easier on your tumtum.
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So......duuuude....:that OJ/honey/cinnamon is a game-changer!!!! So, thank you!! And I finally found a strain that seems to be working. Red Bali. Hope all is well! 🙏
 
Painful One said:
Loperamide really helps me when I run myself out of morphine early.

50 mg holds me for the day.
(this is dangerous and can hurt your heart)
Just be sure not to take it for very long.
3-5 days top or there are some very bad prices to be paid.

I have recently tried Kratom for these situations also and have been pleasantly surprised.
You kinda have to work with it and see what the right combo works for you.
I have found a combo of the Loperamide at lower doses (20-30 mg) and 6 Kratom capsules works great!
Click to expand...

Hm, interesting- I’ll have to learn more about it. Thanks for the info!! 🙏
 
Hello BL fam. The Week of Hell is officially over. Got my subs. Thank everyone for the kind guidance, support & personal narratives that you all shared. Beyond helpful. You made an almost unbearable week seem somehow manageable. 🙏 ❤️
But now a question- who all out there has played with subs and Kratom on an on and off basis? Like, can you switch up between substances within a day or a few days, or is that a bad idea?? Wondering about potency issues (like amount in your system that may be lost due to juggling between them), experiences, or advice. So grateful for this strange, beautiful, blue place. Glad to feel welcome here & among good peeps.... hope this finds you all doing well. ⭐️
 
clovey2014 said:
Hello BL fam. The Week of Hell is officially over. Got my subs. Thank everyone for the kind guidance, support & personal narratives that you all shared. Beyond helpful. You made an almost unbearable week seem somehow manageable. 🙏 ❤
But now a question- who all out there has played with subs and Kratom on an on and off basis? Like, can you switch up between substances within a day or a few days, or is that a bad idea?? Wondering about potency issues (like amount in your system that may be lost due to juggling between them), experiences, or advice. So grateful for this strange, beautiful, blue place. Glad to feel welcome here & among good peeps.... hope this finds you all doing well. ⭐
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We thank you, we will always be here! I was actually planning to reply, haha. That's good to hear :coffee:
 
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