safety "rule" for 25x-NBOME, 2C-x, and DOx

[titan7]

Most people would consider 350μg of 25c to be approximately equipotent to 600μg 25i

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25I-NBOMe#Dosage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2C-C-NBOMe#Dosage

By the way Titan. I suggest that you do some reading on tolerance. With psychedelic phenthylamines, repeatedly dosing over the course of a session IS NOT the same as taking one dose up front. Suggesting it is us dangerous and counter to BL's stated HR mission.

I've taken 3-4mg with no tolerance everyone makes it seem like 1mg no tolerance is near an overdose. The dosages you show are insuffilated for 25c and don't list the ROA on 25i. I dare you to snort 500ug 25i with no tolerance it's a lot more potent than 500ug sublingual. The first time i tried nbome's was snorted at 500ug, it was the most intense psychedelic experience I had to date. No where in my original post did i say "take 20mg at once with no tolerance" i clearly stated I was redosing and my post even talks about tolerance and redosing

 

[slo mo]

I've had a lot of experiences with 25i,c, and b. C and B are less potent than I, 700-800ug 25c with no tolerance is equivalent intensity wise (they're all unique in their effects) to a 500ug 25i trip with no tolerance 1.2mg 25b was about the same intensity as 500 ug 25i. 500ug 25i is not very intense imo, unless your vaporizing it.

I've dosed a combined total of nearly 20mg over the course of a night (not all at once started with 2mg doses of 25g before combining in 5-6 mg of 25i and c in 1mg increments). Nbome's are deadly but not nearly as deadly as everyone claims, if you do an allergy test before jumping into deeper waters then you won't have much to worry about

Readers , please take note of the rapid tolerance here. I have also re-dosed NBOME's and it takes quite a bit to re-dose and never consider trying even close to the those re-dose totals at a single dose in the future. If titan7 had high tolerance it could explain being able to handle a 2mg dose in the first place.

As for NBOME's being deadly, if accurately and slowly dosed and not part of dangerous poly combo's or all day consumption of energy drinks/alcohol , have they caused any deaths?

 

[Anon0631]

I've taken 3-4mg with no tolerance everyone makes it seem like 1mg no tolerance is near an overdose. The dosages you show are insuffilated for 25c and don't list the ROA on 25i. I dare you to snort 500ug 25i with no tolerance it's a lot more potent than 500ug sublingual. The first time i tried nbome's was snorted at 500ug, it was the most intense psychedelic experience I had to date. No where in my original post did i say "take 20mg at once with no tolerance" i clearly stated I was redosing and my post even talks about tolerance and redosing

You took 3-4 mg of 25i in a single hit? Which was it? 3mg or 4mg?

 

[kidklmx]

2c-ef and 2c-tfm are active? I've read trip reports of both compounds, pretty sure the reports were on bluelight. Pihkal claims DOEF is active as well
What are you trying to say? 2c-f is active but in the hundreds of mg range

That there are structures with fluorine in it, and that they are active. (except for 2C-F and DOF, but apparently 2C-F is active too. DOF has never had a human trial) The guy was saying there weren't

 

[titan7]

You took 3-4 mg of 25i in a single hit? Which was it? 3mg or 4mg?

It was 3.x dont remember exactly but it was definitely under 3.5 or 3.5 exactly, took a few 2mg 25c doses up the nose one mg of 25c in the bum later did 1.5mg 25i up the bum

Edit: the 20mg was consumed over the course of 5 hours doses spread out 40-60 min in the beginning by the end of the 5 hours i was taking doses every 20min either plugged intranasal or vaporized. All extremely quick onsets buccal would not be useful for redosing I imagine atleast if your trying to increase intensity. (which definitely is possible after taking your first dose it just wastes a lot of material)

 

[Anon0631]

So, plugging together what you have written in previous posts, for you personally, 500μg is too intense but 3.5mg is OK. I'm calling bullshit for reasons to obvious to be stated.

Please anyone reading this thread, don't take titan's posts as dosage advice.

 

[titan7]

When I first tried nbome I had only tried 4-aco-dmt as my only other psychedelic experience and it was a light 25mg dose. 3.5mg dosed with tolerance isn't very strong tolerance builds ridiculously quick with nbome's if you don't vape the entire dose in one hit you'll notice the first hits were very effective but the final hits are much weaker compared to the first. When I was a psychedelic noob 500ug up the nose was too intense and it was my first time with nbome so I kept thinking "oh fuck why did I put it up my nose I'm dead" even though erowid lists much larger doses for nasal administration. I don't recommend anyone even take nbome's their pretty shitty when it comes down to it, and if you know how to use silk road you have so many options available it's pointless to buy nbome's if you have access and can afford much better drugs. Unless your a cheap ass like I am then you buy nbome's to throw into combination with other psychedelics. I just picked up some 2c-e and I'll probably make it last as long as possible by taking low doses of one of the nbome's I have. Most likely 25g it's effects are really subtle on it's own when mixed with a wonderful PEA like 2c-e then it will probably be amazing. Have not tried that combo so I don't know if it's safe. I won't list the combo's I've tried just because I didn't die every time I did a certain combo doesn't mean anyone else won't. If you value your life you'll want to avoid any combinations, especially with any rc stimulants or rc opiates.

Edit: Also 25i alone with no tolerance will still scare me into fearing for my life, but my tolerance usually isn't down by the next time I dose. I notice my tolerance is back to pretty much 0 after a month not 2 weeks. After 2 weeks I can get strong effects still but i use more material and take doses the size you read and called bullshit on. Remember 500ug No tolerance vs 3.5mg 25i that was my final dose at the end of that 5 hours so I had already consumed 16.5mg of nbome. The reason I didn't get scared with no tolerance was because 25g is so weak visually and so clear headed that I couldn't tell I was even tripping after consuming mg after mg, I took mostly 25g during the experience before deciding to throw in 25c and 25i because I was so disappointed with 25g. 25g lacks in intensity but it still raises your tolerance as high and quickly as any of the other nbome's. That's why 3.5mg wasn't that intense it was a redose.

 

[Anon0631]

So it WAS taken on top of astronomical tolerance?

 

[titan7]

So it WAS taken on top of astronomical tolerance?

Yeah I already said that in my post, I said I took 20mg over 5 hours in varying doses spaced varying times apart, anyone who knows anything about drug tolerance in general would realize that if I took 20mg over the course of 5 hours in separate smaller doses that they would be less effective. Especially since psychedelics have an extremely fast building tolerance. This trip would have been way too intense if I had just started with 25i and not 25g but starting with 25g (little visuals and very clear headed) raised my tolerance through the roof by the time I had even redosed more 25g let alone the others. 25c and 25b have always been less potent for me and everyone I've tripped on nbome's with in person (a lot of people), and the majority of the trip reports I read people take over 1mg and don't compare the intensity to near that of 25i. 25b can be really intense one time I accidentally dosed 1.5mg no tolerance early on in my psychedelic career probably like 10 months ago or so after I had tried 25i a number of times and tried 25c a couple times, I figured I could handle intranasal dosing now but I accidentally made the solution stronger than I thought I was hoping for a 800ug trip but accidentally took way too much. The visuals were so intense that everything had a pattern flowing over it, and that was only 30 or so minutes after dosing which scared me extremely. Because I had never been blinded by visuals because they were so intense before and I had no benzo's to calm myself which I always have on hand now.

 

[titan7]

Let me make it clear I hadn't taken nbomes for months before dosing that 25g that day, because I had ran out a while ago and went through a lot of tryptamines instead of ordering more nbome, except for a 100ug allergy test of 25g 2 weeks before the full dose. The only drug I had consumed close enough to the experience to effect the tolerance to nbome was MXE one week before the 25g. It was a low dose of MXE because the batch was ridiculously impure 150mg was a threshold dose. My brother tried it at 100mg before I did and was shocked because he felt litterally nothing ended up going up to 300-400mg before he started feeling MXE effects. The RC market is a shady place so the quality of nbome's we're all getting could vary greatly. 100ug 25g wouldn't do shit to my tolerance especially if since I waited 2 weeks

 

[neuron charge]

hey guys. did some PIHKAL homework. entry #22 2C-C says, " The heaviest, iodine, was explored as the phen-ethylamine, as 2C-I, and as the amphetamine as DOI. These are the most potent. The next lighter is bromine, where the phenethylamine is 2C-B and the amphetamine is DOB. These two are a bit less potent, and are by far the most broadly explored of all the halides. Here, in the above recipe, we have the chlorine counterpart, 2C-C. There is also the corresponding amphetamine DOC. These are less potent still"

here Shulgin is drawing CORRELATIONS between halogen size and dosage of 2C-x and DOx. for 2C-x this CORRELATION is CLEAR. ODDLY Shulgin gives contradictory comments about DOx potency comparisons on entries 2C-C (see his quote from my 1st paragraph) and DOC ("the three halo-amphetamine derivatives, DOI, DOB and DOC, are all pretty much of the same potency) Shulgins reported DURATION differences between DOx CORRELATE nicely with halogen size however...

@kidklmx yes, i know the flourine versions can exist. but in REALITY flourine is MUCH harder to work with as a chemist than CL, Br, or I. Again explained in entry #22 2C-C, "The fluorine analogue is yet harder to make, and requires procedures that are indirect, because fluorine (the lightest of all the halides) is not only a gas, but is dangerous to handle and does not react in the usual halogen way. There will be mention made of 2C-F, but DOF is still unexplored."

@bloodshed344 ...nice point, thanks.

CONCLUSION: people need to be extremely cautious when in contact with these compounds, and even more so if using the iodine versions...

 

[tryp2fun]

hey guys. did some PIHKAL homework. entry #22 2C-C says, " The heaviest, iodine, was explored as the phen-ethylamine, as 2C-I, and as the amphetamine as DOI. These are the most potent. The next lighter is bromine, where the phenethylamine is 2C-B and the amphetamine is DOB. These two are a bit less potent, and are by far the most broadly explored of all the halides. Here, in the above recipe, we have the chlorine counterpart, 2C-C. There is also the corresponding amphetamine DOC. These are less potent still"

here Shulgin is drawing CORRELATIONS between halogen size and dosage of 2C-x and DOx. for 2C-x this CORRELATION is CLEAR. ODDLY Shulgin gives contradictory comments about DOx potency comparisons on entries 2C-C (see his quote from my 1st paragraph) and DOC ("the three halo-amphetamine derivatives, DOI, DOB and DOC, are all pretty much of the same potency) Shulgins reported DURATION differences between DOx CORRELATE nicely with halogen size however...

@kidklmx yes, i know the flourine versions can exist. but in REALITY flourine is MUCH harder to work with as a chemist than CL, Br, or I. Again explained in entry #22 2C-C, "The fluorine analogue is yet harder to make, and requires procedures that are indirect, because fluorine (the lightest of all the halides) is not only a gas, but is dangerous to handle and does not react in the usual halogen way. There will be mention made of 2C-F, but DOF is still unexplored."

@bloodshed344 ...nice point, thanks.

CONCLUSION: people need to be extremely cautious when in contact with these compounds, and even more so if using the iodine versions...

The different classes (2C-X, DOX, NBOMe) of compounds respond differently to the effects of substituents at the 4-position, based on different steric demands. If NBOMe is added to 2C-Xs, there is ~20-fold INCREASE in potency, while if NBOMe is added to DOXs, there is ~10-fold DECREASE in potency. Thus, in the 2C-X series, potency is I>Br>Cl, as stated. In the DOX series, potency is I~Br~Cl. In the NBOME series, potency is Cl>Br>I. Furthermore, the more potent 2C-X, 2C-E, is even weaker than the halogens in the NBOMes. You cannot generalize the substituent effects across classes.

 

[neuron charge]

my last comment is a GENERALIZATION (take it or leave it), but the 3 CORRELATIONS from the 1st post are very REAL

@tryp2fun yes, potency is I~Br~Cl for DOx, but the "potency of DURATION" for DOx is Cl<Br<I... again, i'm not pointing out CAUSES or EXPLANATIONS, rather CORRELATIONS which are SIGNIFICANT. nice NBOMe-addition chemistry knowledge BTW...

 

[zn13bt]

I believe the duration pattern (from shortest to longest) Cl < Br < I holds for all three series. Definitely people report that 2C-I lasts longer than 2C-C, and likewise for DOI and DOC, and 25I-NBOMe and 25C-NBOMe.

 

[titan7]

I believe the duration pattern (from shortest to longest) Cl < Br < I holds for all three series. Definitely people report that 2C-I lasts longer than 2C-C, and likewise for DOI and DOC, and 25I-NBOMe and 25C-NBOMe.

In my experience the dosage of the compound your consuming has a lot more to do with duration. I've tripped for over 24 hours on DOM (no one specifically talked about DOM but DOx chems will have you tripping for days if you take a huge dose. Same way taking a thumbrint of acid has a similar duration to DOx compounds the effects are better because it's acid but it lasts really long.

 

[tryp2fun]

I believe the duration pattern (from shortest to longest) Cl < Br < I holds for all three series. Definitely people report that 2C-I lasts longer than 2C-C, and likewise for DOI and DOC, and 25I-NBOMe and 25C-NBOMe.

The potency of the drug is the pharmacodynamics, the duration of action is the pharmacokinetics. Substituents may, and quite often do, have different effects on pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics.

 

[neuron charge]

@titan7 yes, in regards to safety and duration, DOSAGE is MUCH more important than any of these CORRELATIONS... (my bad for not making this clear)
but again, (accounting for dosage) these 3 CORRELATIONS stated in the 1st post are VALID, as well as important to note...

 

[titan7]

@titan7 yes, in regards to safety and duration, DOSAGE is MUCH more important than any of these CORRELATIONS... (my bad for not making this clear)
but again, (accounting for dosage) these 3 CORRELATIONS stated in the 1st post are VALID, as well as important to note...

Duration has never really been a big concern for me, I find the differences in visual activity, audial hallucinations and headspace far more interesting and i wan't to see if the differences in nbome's result in similar effects in the DOx compounds. I want to see if DOB is more euphoric than DOI like it is for the nbome series. The DOx compounds are pretty safe compared to nbome's you still need to have an accurate scale. I look forward to trying DOB DOC , and DOI after trying DOM, DOM was an amazing experience so I can't wait to see what it's family members are like. From everything I've read DOM is the most likeable but I love trying different compounds. Have a long list of rc's ive tried that i want to keep growing. Theres still tons of rc's I havent tried for lack of funds.

 

[neuron charge]

@kidklmx here is a better response to your fluorine comment using the following review for reference,

"Fluorine in psychedelic phenethylamines" - 2012
http://bitnest.ca/external.php?id=%7DbxUgXXCNAUj%7E%7E%07

"..2C-F was evaluated in
humans up to 250mg where it proved to be essentially
inactive. In comparison to the well-known bromo-analog 2C-B."
CORRELATION - 2C-x dose size F > Cl > Br > I

"...DOF was predicted to show a human activity
of about four to six times less than the heavier halide derivatives
DOB and DOI. According to limited trials, DOF showed no psychedelic activity but some stimulating effects were noted at 3x6 mg."
CORRELATION - DOx duration F < Cl < Br < I

 

[LucidSDreamr]

OP where did you get this info? it sounds made up