Tryptamines Psilocybin and trip anxiety
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panic_the_digital
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Since this thread is already running, I could use a little advice. I want to do shrooms again with my wife, but she has developed some anxieties recently that I believe shrooms could alleviate. However, I don't want shrooms to be included amongst her list of anxieties. She has done shrooms twice with wonderful results (both fairly low dose). However, she has lately had bad reactions to weed, which may be partly due to some fucked up situations that occurred whilst smoking. Also, we were forced to downgrade to brick weed, which obviously can't help. Should she give shrooms another try, or should we try and fix this problem with other methods?
JASS92
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with shrooms i find that the anxiety can be of a ridiculous magnitude. however, i do find that there are some thinks that can increase the likeliness during both the come up and the peak. there have been several times when i consumed shrooms(both in the upper 7g range) that i initially experienced severe panic attacks on the comeup.
my trip was scarafyingly creeping up on me. at first during both times i took a nice walk around my school arboretum, and then proceeded to smoke a blunt. on the trip back to society, i began to experience physical side effects: throat became very dry, as did my tongue and mouth which caused swallowing to become impossible. I found I actually could not walk anymore and had to take several breathers on the way back because i could tell my breathing had slowed and that the hallucinations were starting. This is where it got fucked up and is what caused my comeup anxiety; I began to hear like high pitch frequencies and the sound of children laughing. Upon finally arriving back in my bed, i collapse into it barely able to breath, as it is very labored and shallow. I tell my friend shrooming with me to call another one of my friends and when asked why i replied "Because I dont know if im going to make this."
I swear to you for 3 hours i sat in this bed and while I would clearly hallucinate both visually and auditorily, I found myself in a state so near death that I can only classify it as the crest. I literally started to die and began incorporating into the earth(oaken bed). The funny thing too is that I had such ego loss, that I did not care about this. I knew what it were to be an inanimant thing in this existence, nothing more than a prop; inable to have any interaction with its surroundings. I would ocassionally awake from this nightmare for 20 seconds to pleade with my friend to help me escape this mess.
The other experience was almost identical except that it involved me wandering down pathways at night in the park twisting and turning and contorting and never being able to actually find a way that wasnt the way I came. No solace from anything with my eyes open; i.e. even when finally arriving back home, sitting on the floor against the wall and looking down at the carpet and seeing it flowing away from me and leaving me in a black hole. i close my eyes, reopen and see the wall in front of me begin to melt away from existence like molten lava. fucking scary shit and both of these trips involved anxiety both on the comeup and during the peak. my venture into plausible factors were of course environment in one. make sure when you shroom that the environment you are in is of extreme comfort and familiarity. also make sure if you intend to eat a large dose, that you please take care eating it on an empty stomach, because it will leave you incapacitated for quite a long bit of time (due to stomach pain and a toxic impure feeling in the body and mind).
my trip was scarafyingly creeping up on me. at first during both times i took a nice walk around my school arboretum, and then proceeded to smoke a blunt. on the trip back to society, i began to experience physical side effects: throat became very dry, as did my tongue and mouth which caused swallowing to become impossible. I found I actually could not walk anymore and had to take several breathers on the way back because i could tell my breathing had slowed and that the hallucinations were starting. This is where it got fucked up and is what caused my comeup anxiety; I began to hear like high pitch frequencies and the sound of children laughing. Upon finally arriving back in my bed, i collapse into it barely able to breath, as it is very labored and shallow. I tell my friend shrooming with me to call another one of my friends and when asked why i replied "Because I dont know if im going to make this."
I swear to you for 3 hours i sat in this bed and while I would clearly hallucinate both visually and auditorily, I found myself in a state so near death that I can only classify it as the crest. I literally started to die and began incorporating into the earth(oaken bed). The funny thing too is that I had such ego loss, that I did not care about this. I knew what it were to be an inanimant thing in this existence, nothing more than a prop; inable to have any interaction with its surroundings. I would ocassionally awake from this nightmare for 20 seconds to pleade with my friend to help me escape this mess.
The other experience was almost identical except that it involved me wandering down pathways at night in the park twisting and turning and contorting and never being able to actually find a way that wasnt the way I came. No solace from anything with my eyes open; i.e. even when finally arriving back home, sitting on the floor against the wall and looking down at the carpet and seeing it flowing away from me and leaving me in a black hole. i close my eyes, reopen and see the wall in front of me begin to melt away from existence like molten lava. fucking scary shit and both of these trips involved anxiety both on the comeup and during the peak. my venture into plausible factors were of course environment in one. make sure when you shroom that the environment you are in is of extreme comfort and familiarity. also make sure if you intend to eat a large dose, that you please take care eating it on an empty stomach, because it will leave you incapacitated for quite a long bit of time (due to stomach pain and a toxic impure feeling in the body and mind).
Ptah
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A long-time lurker reaction:
For me personally, as it seems to be for most people, the comeup is where the anxiety happens.
The real problem here is that a common reaction is to fight the drug, resulting in a much lower than optimal "plateau" level.
Achieving a large-dose LSD-type of experience seemed pretty much impossible.
However, me and my girlfriend experimented extensively with mushrooms and came up with the following technique (your mileage can and will vary, as does ours):
1. Don't eat them, make tea.
Both to prevent stomach problems and to increase comeup speed.
No boiling, just let the ground mushies sit in hot water for a 20 minutes or so, like any normal herbal tea.
Then filter, and don't forget to squeeze the filter for those last precious drops.
2. Don't go overboard dose-wise, just take enough to get to a reasonably (wtf does that mean?
) psychedelic level.
3. As soon as the trip has more or less fully unfolded aka a plateau is reached, a second dose is taken.
I cannot emphasize enough that time is of the essence here.
Wait too long and the second dose just extends the experience without intensifying the effects.
We found that a second dose one hour after the first dose usually did the magic trick.
Do not wait any longer, and empty the cup right away.
In the first stage (minor)anxiety/fear is dealt with, and the effects of the second dose can be embraced without difficulty resulting in a GREATLY enhanced AND extended experience, without the slightest trace of comeup-related unpleasantness.
Further comments, tips and caveats:
We exclusively used wild mushrooms (several batches of varying potency) and have absolutely no idea how those compare to the cultivated strains.
Furthermore, psychedelic experiences always depend on several uncontrollable factors so this or any technique won't always work.
As stated before, YMWV and as of yet we haven't been able to verify the validity of this technique, but for us it worked pretty much ***almost*** every time.
YOU WILL FORGET ABOUT THE PLAN UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE.
Therefore it's a very good idea to use an alarm clock.
I use a digital kitchen timer.
BEEP-BEEP-BEEP. Pour the not-too-hot tea. Drink.
It's also necessary to prepare the second dose in advance, possibly leaving room for dosage adjustment, i.e. two or more separate pots of tea.
You may be able to judge how much of the pot you want to drink, but chances are good that you'll be beyond that.
Separate pots make those type of decisions a lot easier.
I suppose it's possible to refrigerate or even freeze any remainders.
It is very well possible to make the second dose larger than the first.
If prolonging the experience is desirable a third dose may be taken later on, but don't wait too long or it will mainly interfere with sleep and not much else.
As with most psychedelic drugs it's prudent to take them on an empty stomach, for several obvious and not-so-obvious reasons.
Both me and my GF wholeheartedly agree that in spite of several previous large-dose experiences we had absolutely no idea what a really fullblown mushroom experience could be like, before applying this technique.
FYI with the batches we considered 'pretty potent' whatever that may mean, we used 2 grams per person for the first dose, and anything from 2 to 5 grams per person for the second dose.
That optional big number second dose may seem excessive, but in this manner we could actually use high doses effectively.
We found that cannabis use (both regular and/or during psychedelic experiences) dull the experience quite a bit. We do not recommend it.
For the rocket scientists (you know who you are) : A third stage is unnecessary.
The second dose can be adjusted to achieve any intensity desired.
Finetuning *may* require a bit of experimentation.
Once more: YMWV.
Hope this helps. Enjoy.
For me personally, as it seems to be for most people, the comeup is where the anxiety happens.
The real problem here is that a common reaction is to fight the drug, resulting in a much lower than optimal "plateau" level.
Achieving a large-dose LSD-type of experience seemed pretty much impossible.
However, me and my girlfriend experimented extensively with mushrooms and came up with the following technique (your mileage can and will vary, as does ours):
1. Don't eat them, make tea.
Both to prevent stomach problems and to increase comeup speed.
No boiling, just let the ground mushies sit in hot water for a 20 minutes or so, like any normal herbal tea.
Then filter, and don't forget to squeeze the filter for those last precious drops.
2. Don't go overboard dose-wise, just take enough to get to a reasonably (wtf does that mean?
) psychedelic level. 3. As soon as the trip has more or less fully unfolded aka a plateau is reached, a second dose is taken.
I cannot emphasize enough that time is of the essence here.
Wait too long and the second dose just extends the experience without intensifying the effects.
We found that a second dose one hour after the first dose usually did the magic trick.
Do not wait any longer, and empty the cup right away.
In the first stage (minor)anxiety/fear is dealt with, and the effects of the second dose can be embraced without difficulty resulting in a GREATLY enhanced AND extended experience, without the slightest trace of comeup-related unpleasantness.
Further comments, tips and caveats:
We exclusively used wild mushrooms (several batches of varying potency) and have absolutely no idea how those compare to the cultivated strains.
Furthermore, psychedelic experiences always depend on several uncontrollable factors so this or any technique won't always work.
As stated before, YMWV and as of yet we haven't been able to verify the validity of this technique, but for us it worked pretty much ***almost*** every time.
YOU WILL FORGET ABOUT THE PLAN UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE.
Therefore it's a very good idea to use an alarm clock.
I use a digital kitchen timer.
BEEP-BEEP-BEEP. Pour the not-too-hot tea. Drink.
It's also necessary to prepare the second dose in advance, possibly leaving room for dosage adjustment, i.e. two or more separate pots of tea.
You may be able to judge how much of the pot you want to drink, but chances are good that you'll be beyond that.
Separate pots make those type of decisions a lot easier.
I suppose it's possible to refrigerate or even freeze any remainders.
It is very well possible to make the second dose larger than the first.
If prolonging the experience is desirable a third dose may be taken later on, but don't wait too long or it will mainly interfere with sleep and not much else.
As with most psychedelic drugs it's prudent to take them on an empty stomach, for several obvious and not-so-obvious reasons.
Both me and my GF wholeheartedly agree that in spite of several previous large-dose experiences we had absolutely no idea what a really fullblown mushroom experience could be like, before applying this technique.
FYI with the batches we considered 'pretty potent' whatever that may mean, we used 2 grams per person for the first dose, and anything from 2 to 5 grams per person for the second dose.
That optional big number second dose may seem excessive, but in this manner we could actually use high doses effectively.
We found that cannabis use (both regular and/or during psychedelic experiences) dull the experience quite a bit. We do not recommend it.
For the rocket scientists (you know who you are
) : A third stage is unnecessary. The second dose can be adjusted to achieve any intensity desired.
Finetuning *may* require a bit of experimentation.
Once more: YMWV.
Hope this helps. Enjoy.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
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good advice. I'm going to experiment with rectal 4-substituted-Ts in the future to see if this reduces the anxiety (which I agree is associated with a longish but increasingly anxious comeup).
I think plugging 22mg of 4-aco-DMT will do the trick for a rocket ride into DMT visual/auditory space.
I think plugging 22mg of 4-aco-DMT will do the trick for a rocket ride into DMT visual/auditory space.
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I plugged 20mg once (of 4-AcO-DMT) and it was extremely strong. I was very far out there, and my body was so intoxicated I could not really walk. My vision was split up into jewelled fragments and I pretty much was totally non-functional and just floating around partially in hyperspace for a couple of hours.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
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^^^ All my higher dose mushroom trips have similarly incapacitated me. I like this incapacitation VERY much. It is wild to shut down your higher order cognitive functions in such an intense manner.
Very scary, very wild, rollercoaster-peepee-on-yourself trip.
Very scary, very wild, rollercoaster-peepee-on-yourself trip.
Twowheeljay
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MY first trip i ate an eighth of mushrooms myself, and have never had a worse (although oddly enlightening at the end) time in my life. It started ok but i got hit with a peice of wood and started bleeding. It was no more than a drop or two, not even a paper cut but i FREAKED OUT. It scared me out of my mind. My friend (not tripping) said i was starting to scare him to where he wasnt sure what to do with me. I hid in my room for about 4 hours, while suffering intense paranoia as well as unusual temperature fluctuations and serious bouts of depression/remorse.
Riemann Zeta
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I voted 'no.' However, psilocin has always given me one hell of a body load during the come up--muscle and jaw tension, jitteriness, vasocontrictive chills/cold sweats, butterflies in the gut (but never puke-inducing) and blurred vision. Essentially, psilocin gives me a lot of the physical/somatic symptoms of a panic attack, without the psychical panic or mental fear. I can certainly see how this might trigger anxiety in people, as the somatic and mental aspects of anxiety are pretty intimately linked. But since these symptoms (for me, at least) remain isolated to the periphery and receed as the trip plateaus, I voted 'no.'
Icculus
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when i first started taking them i would experience anxiety, even had some bad, tearful trips... but now i feel more comfortable on mushrooms than anything. they grow near my house, so i've taken them a lot, which probably helps.
many of my friends find mushrooms to be more overwhelming than lsd, but i feel its the other way around. mushrooms for me are a time for me to do my mental homework, and to reflect on the beauty of life and my family and friends. lsd is way more cosmic.
for me:
mushrooms = earth, family and internal stuff
lsd = the universe, interconnectedness, the profundity of existence
many of my friends find mushrooms to be more overwhelming than lsd, but i feel its the other way around. mushrooms for me are a time for me to do my mental homework, and to reflect on the beauty of life and my family and friends. lsd is way more cosmic.
for me:
mushrooms = earth, family and internal stuff
lsd = the universe, interconnectedness, the profundity of existence
MagickalKat777
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Mushrooms cause more anxiety for me than most drugs for sure. It seems when I'm coming up, I go into panic mode and then sometimes that levels into a milder form of anxiety or goes away completely when the peak hits.
Its one of the reasons I don't each mushrooms very often.
Its one of the reasons I don't each mushrooms very often.
I find mushrooms and LSD are pretty much opposites when it comes to the anxiety aspect of the trip.
Coming up on mushrooms is always the worst. Your stomach feels like shit and your heart starts racing... it always seems like it's going to be some +++ trip you were totally unprepared for. but then when it kicks in fully and starts going, you're fine.
It's the other way around with acid. During the come-up I get ecstasy like euphoria and feel at peace for the first hour or so. then as it goes on, it starts fucking with my head more and more and I usually start getting mild to moderate fear halfway through. Then the latter portions I'm battling psychosis and trying to regain my ego.
Coming up on mushrooms is always the worst. Your stomach feels like shit and your heart starts racing... it always seems like it's going to be some +++ trip you were totally unprepared for. but then when it kicks in fully and starts going, you're fine.
It's the other way around with acid. During the come-up I get ecstasy like euphoria and feel at peace for the first hour or so. then as it goes on, it starts fucking with my head more and more and I usually start getting mild to moderate fear halfway through. Then the latter portions I'm battling psychosis and trying to regain my ego.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
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I've found that setting plays a big part in my fear on mushrooms during the comeup. For some reason, mushrooms make me have to pay super attention to finding a perfect setting. If I am dosing big on mushrooms (or any 4-sub-T) I MUST have a very peaceful and private setting (ie NO chance of being interrupted). Otherwise my anxiety is increased and I spend the coming up period looking out for people and think I am doing something bad or am a bad person for taking a psychedelic in the woods.
BongFish
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I used to eat a lot of mushrooms when I was younger because it was the only psych I could get my hands on at the time. Some amazing trips but always quite 'difficult', not sure if this is because I was 17 or because shrooms are difficult by nature. I voted yes.
thujone
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heh... i was up at the cottage a few days ago with a non-tripper friend who i thought would be good company... not really. the weather was perfect and i just sat out on a rock and enjoyed the visuals. apparently there were billions of mosquitos but i didn't even notice them even though they normally irk the fuck outta me... can't even find bites on me though there was certainly an abundance of flying shit. definitely my calmest trip so far even though i was having such a hard time talking, but I did eat a decent potent pot brownie an hour before i chewed the mush. wasn't sure how it would set each other off but i was definitely a happy tripper for a while there the shrooms were mexican cubensis and i ate an eighth. i'm not normally too excitable since i love LSD but mush is definitely far less edgy.
I'd say surroundings have a lot to do with it... I always feel happiest and calmest on trips when I can sit on a rock somewhere and stare out at expanses of nature
the shrooms were mexican cubensis and i ate an eighth. i'm not normally too excitable since i love LSD but mush is definitely far less edgy.I'd say surroundings have a lot to do with it... I always feel happiest and calmest on trips when I can sit on a rock somewhere and stare out at expanses of nature
squerll
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I would say yes on the come up. For me environment makes all the difference. I only eat shoorms in a nice peaceful environment no city tripping. When I'm in the woods the come up is a little anxiety self couscous thoughts and paranoia but as soon as I reach a point I get the best calm feeling I have ever had. Once I get over the come up and I'm in a good environment I get a timeless sense of self that is deeper and more special then any substance I have ever had. When I'm in the city or a nosiey caotic environment the anxiety never leaves and turns into confused anxiety. They just make me so sensitive to my environment. I have had a few lighter trips with friend at parties and such that were not to bad with a few beers but it's unpredictable a little to high and the anxiety, paranoia and confusion kicks in.