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☮ Social ☮ PD Social Tripping Thread: aLL aBoArD tHe MoThErShiP 👽🛸

4 years since this pandemic started pretty much, lockdown seems like a while ago now.

during the first round of lockdowns i was taking copious amounts of acid. every 5 days, tolerance sky rocketed to huge amounts that 3 tabs started feeling like i took one tab, near the end of the spree i was eating 8 tabs every trip with visuals only on par with 2 tabs with zero acid headspace.

can't believe its now 2024.

now days i probably will only get the chance to do acid every couple years. Miss tripping alot.
 
Hello again @kaleida! I must confess, I'm quite overwhelmed by the volume of content to respond to, and this has discouraged me from doing things in bits and pieces, which would help me make progress. I'm going to try to respond to most of your earlier posts to me, but I'm going to skip some stuff and move other things to separate threads. With separate threads, I think it will be much easier for me to respond more quickly to things that are easy to respond to, and I'll feel more comfortable elaborating more if I need to.

Let me just start by bringing up the conversations of decriminalization, legalization, and their effects on psychedelic scientific research. I've really gotten hung up on responding to this collection of topics because there is so much I feel inclined to say and much I've already written even, but it may just be way over the top. I mean, I totally "get" your sentiment toward these things @kaleida. I feel essentially the same way. It's just that I'm also aware of and inclined to think about the many ugly details, which go way beyond the drug policies themselves. Economics, culture, and politics are all very important roles. No, it's not just about "convincing people" that a different way is better. That's just one part of it.

Anyway, I don't know if anyone (including you) is interested in an in-depth conversation along these lines. If so, let me know and we can start a new thread on the subject. Otherwise I'm going to let this topic go.

Now I'll respond on the subject of cannabis use and your health.

I wouldn't assume [cannabis] works for everyone [to reverse onset of diabetes], but there is actually a good amount of science these days going into how and why it does seem to work for many. It's not like I tried to tackle it like a diet and worked out for it and am ready to hype it up to everyone now, though. I just got lucky it worked out that way and am excited to see actual evidence that it's a real thing.

Well if it did work for you, that is pretty interesting. And you make a very good point about how 6 months of abstinence may not be enough time for whatever benefits to lapse. I say this partly because I think this has been true for me with regard to the benefits I get from serotonergic psychedelics.

For what it's worth there are other more pressing problems that generally stop me from abstaining from cannabis. I think I might've mentioned this before, but I tend to get frequent nightmares when I'm not smoking cannabis, and also had them regularly before ever using it in the first place, whereas I get basically none ever when I am using it regularly. That definitely makes a difference to me.... I also feel that it just helps my mood and such a lot. I am trying to seriously cut back my use of it in the near future though. I'm still living with my parents currently who are huge stoners and never don't have cannabis in the house, but once I get my own place again I think I'm just not going to buy any for a long time except for when I specifically need it for one specific upcoming event, like tripping on a weekend or something. We'll see how that goes if I manage to pull it off and if anything changes.

Nightmares! My wife has used cannabis to suppress that problem. It's worse during her cannabis withdraw but they persist well after the withdraw clears. I don't really have nightmares, but cannabis suppresses almost all of my dream activity. It's too bad that I like cannabis so much because withdraw is actually kind of fun. I have amazing dreams then.

Anyway, I'm pretty much at least a little high all the time now, but I don't really consume a lot. Admittedly, right now I'm feeling a bit guilty having just finished off 1/4 oz in about 3 weeks. My wife was helping, but I smoked most of it. Now that I'm tripping regularly, I'm enjoying smoking cannabis a lot more too. I'm also not really obligated to be completely sober throughout the day, and I think the weed might help a bit with the Long COVID.

Until the last few years though, I usually only smoked in the evenings and on the occasional weekend day. I liked how I could take 2 or 3 hits and get blasted for a couple hours. That was enough to feel almost like I was tripping every day, even if I spent almost all the day working or studying hard.

One thing about smoking less overall is that tolerance can become too low, in that side-effects like tachycardia can get worse and it can be more difficult to titrate to the desired intoxication level.
 
There's definitely something sketchy-feeling about 5-methoxytryptamines compared to other psychedelics to me. The reason I was smoking it in the first place is because they all feel fairly awful for me most of the time when taking them orally.

I wonder if this difference with ROA is because of metabolic transformations like you mentioned or if it has to do with bypassing the GI system? I would guess that 5-methoxy things feel sketchier because they are closer to actual serotonin and maybe do more of the things serotonin does.

If you can handle taking it orally I bet you can handle smoking it just fine. I feel weird bringing it up usually because of how popular smoking DMT has become, but to me it usually kind of feels ultimately like nothing.

Oh yeah! Mushrooms have a bit of "alien" in their body feel, but with ayahuasca the feeling is much stronger and much weirder even. I imagine smoking and getting "shpongled" in matter of seconds is a bit unnerving indeed.

A trip with strong visuals that go by too fast to enjoy and not enough time to have any meaningful thoughts or work through anything because of it.

Well, my problem with aya is that unless the dose hits the sweet spot (which cannot be done reliably), it is too overpowering to have meaningful thoughts or work through anything either. So smoking DMT may not do much for me either.

Maybe that's why I'm contemplating rectal. IM would probably be good too if I did needles. I want to be able to get the dose just right so that I get that magnificent cosmic connection but my ego doesn't get blown to pieces, and ideally I'd like to say in that state for more than just a few minutes.

If you pursue the oral route, keep in mind that there is no "clean" oral DMT trip because the MAOI is active on its own. I had a friend who was hyper-sensitive to something in the B. caapi vine. She said she never threw up on anything, so we did not prepare for what happened. She drank the vine preparation and waited 30 minutes, but she did not consume any DMT because by then, the vine had her puking like mad on the floor. (She couldn't manage a trip to the bathroom.) After the first puking session, she was drawn into an intense dream-like visionary state, and she remained in that space (with a few additional puking sessions) for something like 7 hours. It inspired major changes in her life, despite no DMT involved.

For "normal" people, B. caapi is not usually so powerful at doses sufficient for MAOI, but it definitely contributes something. Native practice argues that the vine is the true visionary substance and the DMT merely "adds light" or amplification to it. I personally find the effect of B. caapi alone to be warm and pleasant, and I don't get nausea with MAOI amounts. You might try experimenting with it alone before adding any DMT. Though, if you want a visionary trip from it, you'll probably have to endure some purging.

Either way, I felt aya to be quite different from mushrooms. To the extent there were similarities, I felt like mushrooms were kind of like the kids toy version.

That quick onset is the case for me with most synthetic 4-substituted tryptamines (and to a lesser extent mushrooms). I have a love-hate relationship with it. I like the way it hits so hard and fast but I also feel like most of my trips that involve me feeling like I wasted my time in retrospect were specifically from being hit so hard by a 4-substituted tryptamine that I just became too discombobulated to treat the trip in the way I would prefer until the peak effects passed. Most of my 4-substituted tryptamine experimentation was in my relatively earlier days of psychedelic use though, maybe I'd be better about it these days....

I don't necessarily mind a fast oral onset if I know to expect it. I also don't think it causes discombobulation, even though a lot of tryptamines like psilocin exhibit both of these properties. Much depends on the dose of course.

I do think 4-HO-MiPT is really nice, I think maybe it just wasn't quite what I was looking for for pushing deeper with back when I was really using it. I had some impressively strong experiences with it when pushing the dosage though. 50 mg gave me easily some of my strongest visuals and feelings of sensory overload ever, the kind of thing where you feel like you have to breathe voluntarily because of how acutely aware you are of every sensation and anything you look at feels like zooming in to a microscopic level of detail and still seeing patterns that are so densely packed that even at that zoomed in level the level of detail is similar to what most psychedelics give you at normal levels of perception just on the walls and stuff. It was intense. That one was a little too intense for me to do much with it other than be amazed though.

I don't recall the size of my larger dose on 4-HO-MIPT. Maybe it was 20 mg? Anyway, that was enough for me to be twirling around the room while emitting colorful spirally fractals from my hands, which could be zoomed and traversed in all their infinite glory. I was at the beginning of my Ph.D. research and was hoping the trip could inspire some novel insights into where to look, but instead I just got massively humbled by all the spiraling fractals. I did not get the inspiration I was hoping for, but the trip was quite fun and ended very energetically and euphorically.

My first time with it was perhaps on 14 mg also (?). I think most of the short trip involved some fantastic sex, and by fantastic, I also mean that I was immersed in a fantasy that my partner and I were mythical creatures---like some of Brian Froud's faeries or something---and we were participating in this wild faerie orgy.

I appreciate the warning. It's something I intend to try eventually although I have no idea when such an opportunity will arise at this point. I did have some DMT and harmalas and also moclobemide ready to go for it in my old stash, but that opportunity is gone now. One day hopefully.

I try not to expect much from a psychedelic before taking it, even ones I've taken before, but I do have some weird expectations for what oral DMT might be like for me that I just can't help but have based on my many smoking experiences and also experiences through various routes with many other similar molecules.

I've kind of responded to this already above. The MAOI definitely colors things a lot. Moclobemide might be the most transparent, but I don't know. I've only used B. caapi, and I think it has nice effects on its own or with mescaline. Indeed, I'm not sure I'll do it with DMT again because it's just too overpowering. I used to think I "needed my ass kicked" once in a while, but maybe because I've grown up a lot since then, I just don't feel I need that anymore.

Well, for what it's worth I have no interest in using any oils that I haven't already known multiple other people to use before.

[...]

I recently noticed that Shulgin actually tried nutmeg, so I guess there's that.

I've always considered 4-HO-MET to be very phenethylamine-like for a tryptamine, for what it's worth. I used to often call it "the 2C-B of the 4-substituted tryptamines." I don't think I've ever taken another tryptamine, or frankly really any psychedelic for that matter, that put me in the exact same sort of headspace that it does. Your mescaline trip description you gave does sound remarkably similar to what I've experienced on it, though.

Well now I am a bit curious, but I have no idea how I'll ever be able to try 4-HO-MET for myself. Oh well, I have more than enough stuff to play with already.

This is where my responses end for now. I'll follow up with more when I get to it.
 
my first k in 14 days today. Did 2.2g feeling very third dimensional laying here right now.
 
@iom, I'll get to all of your responses to me as soon as I can. Obviously I don't have to tell you it's a lot to get to too, I just need some more time to find the right opportunity and mindset. I do hope you've been doing well in the meantime though and look forward to talking again soon. ❤️
 
I am in the midst of a whirlwind of changes as the psychedelics work through me and more recently my wife. I am exhausted yet full of courage and vigor.

Oh, and I am thinking about ayahuasca---not DMT but just the vine itself. I think I may need to become acquainted with it on its own terms, being that I've always combined it with DMT, 5-Meo-DMT, or mescaline.

I have two types on me. I have a "white" variety, which I was using with the mescaline, and I have some of these "cielo"/"sky"/"yellow" ayahuasca cuttings, some of which are 3" diameter. They are amazing just to look at and hold in the hands. I've never tried this batch. I haven't decided which one to work with yet.

Oh, and while digging through some 20+ year old notes, I found a bunch of trip reports on ayahuasca and also 5-Meo-DMT (!) that I wrote up but never posted anywhere. I had forgotten all about these texts. Wow! It all takes me back.

Edit: Oh, and I found a write-up of my first mushroom trip!

Edit2: OMG! It's my first ever trip, which was on ayahuasca. It's narrated at 5-10 minute intervals until things got super-intense. This is an absolute gem. Like 95% of these details I'd forgotten. I will have to edit it beforehand, but I'm going to have to post this. Hell, just reading this makes me feel like I'm there again.
 
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Xorkoth is fine. I speak to him often. He is busy with work and taking a break from BL.
I reached out to him to see if he was okay and never heard back. Thanks for the update.

Did something happen to Xoroth ? Never see him around anymore .
He took a new position at work, I believe, with extra responsibilities and time commitments, but additionally, I think he might have taken the tragic recent passing of long-time Bluelighter, Cosmic Charlie (may he rest in peace), not so well. It's a shame because I miss them both now, but I trust we'll see him again before too long.
 
Alright, I'm about to start tackling these responses (here and elsewhere) @iom. Please forgive me if anything I type is a little... weird. I haven't typed anything yet and I'm not saying it'll definitely happen, I've just been through a lot lately mentally.... Just putting that out there. I just have a good chance to respond today and don't want to put it off any longer if I can avoid it. Maybe typing these posts will help ground me again.

Hello again @kaleida! I must confess, I'm quite overwhelmed by the volume of content to respond to, and this has discouraged me from doing things in bits and pieces, which would help me make progress. I'm going to try to respond to most of your earlier posts to me, but I'm going to skip some stuff and move other things to separate threads. With separate threads, I think it will be much easier for me to respond more quickly to things that are easy to respond to, and I'll feel more comfortable elaborating more if I need to.

Sounds good. I have a bad habit of just letting online conversations build up infinitely, but I'm easy and will work with whatever way you want to continue the discussions. If it makes things easier then I'm all for that.

Let me just start by bringing up the conversations of decriminalization, legalization, and their effects on psychedelic scientific research. I've really gotten hung up on responding to this collection of topics because there is so much I feel inclined to say and much I've already written even, but it may just be way over the top. I mean, I totally "get" your sentiment toward these things @kaleida. I feel essentially the same way. It's just that I'm also aware of and inclined to think about the many ugly details, which go way beyond the drug policies themselves. Economics, culture, and politics are all very important roles. No, it's not just about "convincing people" that a different way is better. That's just one part of it.

Anyway, I don't know if anyone (including you) is interested in an in-depth conversation along these lines. If so, let me know and we can start a new thread on the subject. Otherwise I'm going to let this topic go.

It is something I have interest in, like I said before I think maybe I just need to adjust to a new mindset of discussing it since none of that really mattered where I used to live and I was just kind of venting most of the time. To be frank I can't promise I'd find the time to contribute to such a thread much right now, although I think it's a nice idea to have more of these kinds of discussions in general. Outwardly I'm kind of just in a phase of enjoying the legality I finally do have access to for now while trying to focus on other areas of life, I don't think about drugs much other than while posting here unlike how I used to be. I would like to become more conscious of the actual issues surrounding drug legalization though.

I'll leave it there for now. I don't really feel like I'm in a great place to make a call on what my mindset is going to be in the upcoming months yet....

Well if it did work for you, that is pretty interesting. And you make a very good point about how 6 months of abstinence may not be enough time for whatever benefits to lapse. I say this partly because I think this has been true for me with regard to the benefits I get from serotonergic psychedelics.

I'm glad to hear that your experiments are still going well in that regard too. And yeah, at the very least it's something that will always stick out in my memory for myself with respect to cannabis. I'd love to see the research being done in this area continue to be fleshed out to the point that it's something health professionals feel empowered to talk about confidently.

Nightmares! My wife has used cannabis to suppress that problem. It's worse during her cannabis withdraw but they persist well after the withdraw clears. I don't really have nightmares, but cannabis suppresses almost all of my dream activity. It's too bad that I like cannabis so much because withdraw is actually kind of fun. I have amazing dreams then.

This may or may not work for you, but I'll give you the same advice I give everyone who says this kind of thing to me: use a period of cannabis abstinence to practice getting good at lucid dreaming, or at least doing the things that lucid dream practitioners do, like keeping a dream journal for the sake of increasing your dream memory by trying to increase the amount of detail you can remember to write down each time.

I say this because when I was new to cannabis long ago, I also generally just felt like my dreams were suppressed by it, and then I took a six month break (longest I ever took from it, due to panic attacks). In that time period I taught myself to lucid dream and got good at remembering my dreams, and now, ever since then despite being over a decade ago at the point, I'm still able to remember my dreams much better when using cannabis than I was before, even when I smoke myself to sleep at night, and I still occasionally have lucid dreams without even trying or thinking about them anymore too. Being able to smoke regularly and also have interesting and wacky dreams is great. I'll concede that it's possible that this is a thing for me for the same reason(s) I have vivid dreams and maybe the nightmares in the first place though, maybe mine are just strong enough to still break through the cannabis somewhat with practice. But this did all work for me at least.

Yeah, what you describe for your wife is how it works for me. In the past month when I was going a bit crazy I almost stopped using cannabis entirely just because I was too sucked into my own headspace and I had a dream where my parents tried to murder me for being a witch, or a slut, one of those two.... It's not a fun thing to have to deal with. I'm going to have to bite the bullet though at some point for my plan to mostly stop smoking when I move out on my own though. Fingers crossed it won't be too bad.

Anyway, I'm pretty much at least a little high all the time now, but I don't really consume a lot. Admittedly, right now I'm feeling a bit guilty having just finished off 1/4 oz in about 3 weeks. My wife was helping, but I smoked most of it. Now that I'm tripping regularly, I'm enjoying smoking cannabis a lot more too. I'm also not really obligated to be completely sober throughout the day, and I think the weed might help a bit with the Long COVID.

I wouldn't be surprised if it does genuinely help with that. It's a wonderful substance.

I feel that though. It's so easy to go through so much cannabis is so little time. Definitely a big part of why I want to basically just not have a habit of using it at all when I have to start funding it all myself.

Until the last few years though, I usually only smoked in the evenings and on the occasional weekend day. I liked how I could take 2 or 3 hits and get blasted for a couple hours. That was enough to feel almost like I was tripping every day, even if I spent almost all the day working or studying hard.

One thing about smoking less overall is that tolerance can become too low, in that side-effects like tachycardia can get worse and it can be more difficult to titrate to the desired intoxication level.

I agree with both of these points. I really do like cannabis with low tolerance other than the anxiety potential, although sometimes that turns out to be very intense in a sort of meaningful way too. It always feels weird referring to cannabis as a psychedelic because I'm not trying to say it does everything that things like LSD and mushrooms do, but in the ways that it does feel like a psychedelic drug to me, it often feels like it could easily be called my favorite. It's just so enjoyable and fun and interesting without being overbearing for me. Especially edibles, which are definitely one of my new obsessions after moving to a legal state, but not only them. It's really no surprise to me that it's such a popular substance, and the less frequently I use it the more I tend to actually appreciate it, not that I don't enjoy using it frequently too at times.
 
I wonder if this difference with ROA is because of metabolic transformations like you mentioned or if it has to do with bypassing the GI system? I would guess that 5-methoxy things feel sketchier because they are closer to actual serotonin and maybe do more of the things serotonin does.

I definitely think either or both could be the case. I think it's also worth noting that bufotenine (5-HO-DMT) seems to have much, much poorer blood-brain barrier penetrability than 5-MeO-DMT, suggesting to me that any 5-HO tryptamines might be a lot more likely to hang around in the body and cause serotonin-like effects than their 5-MeO counterparts. In any case, I definitely do recommend smoking them to you or anyone that wants to try them, although with the warning that it does seem to really activate some of their intensity for me too. In a good but potentially quite... memorably powerful sort of way....

Oh yeah! Mushrooms have a bit of "alien" in their body feel, but with ayahuasca the feeling is much stronger and much weirder even. I imagine smoking and getting "shpongled" in matter of seconds is a bit unnerving indeed.

Yeah, that's definitely what I'm talking about. I find psilocin and DMT to feel very similar to one another in my body (and other ways), but with psilocin it really doesn't bother me much, whereas with DMT I'm always just like, this feels so weird and uncomfortable.... I'm hoping that taking it orally one day might be the thing that allows me to learn to adjust to it better. With smoking it it definitely does just feel like it comes on so fast that it's hard for me to get over it and enjoy anything.

Well, my problem with aya is that unless the dose hits the sweet spot (which cannot be done reliably), it is too overpowering to have meaningful thoughts or work through anything either. So smoking DMT may not do much for me either.

That's interesting to hear. Maybe it's just a DMT thing in general. It does seem like most of its reputation comes from people who are taking it just to be amazed by what it has to show them. That's just not really how I like to trip most of the time. Maybe I just need to adjust my headspace about it though.

Maybe that's why I'm contemplating rectal. IM would probably be good too if I did needles. I want to be able to get the dose just right so that I get that magnificent cosmic connection but my ego doesn't get blown to pieces, and ideally I'd like to say in that state for more than just a few minutes.

Good luck with rectal if you try it. I don't know what to expect about the duration or anything with that.... I did try IM DMT one time. It felt like getting a lower dosage of smoking it though, there wasn't really much to speak of. The duration was alright but definitely still a lot more like smoking it than like taking anything else orally would be. I feel like I'd probably want it to be longer if it had been really memorable.

If you pursue the oral route, keep in mind that there is no "clean" oral DMT trip because the MAOI is active on its own. I had a friend who was hyper-sensitive to something in the B. caapi vine. She said she never threw up on anything, so we did not prepare for what happened. She drank the vine preparation and waited 30 minutes, but she did not consume any DMT because by then, the vine had her puking like mad on the floor. (She couldn't manage a trip to the bathroom.) After the first puking session, she was drawn into an intense dream-like visionary state, and she remained in that space (with a few additional puking sessions) for something like 7 hours. It inspired major changes in her life, despite no DMT involved.

For "normal" people, B. caapi is not usually so powerful at doses sufficient for MAOI, but it definitely contributes something. Native practice argues that the vine is the true visionary substance and the DMT merely "adds light" or amplification to it. I personally find the effect of B. caapi alone to be warm and pleasant, and I don't get nausea with MAOI amounts. You might try experimenting with it alone before adding any DMT. Though, if you want a visionary trip from it, you'll probably have to endure some purging.

Either way, I felt aya to be quite different from mushrooms. To the extent there were similarities, I felt like mushrooms were kind of like the kids toy version.

I did have some moclobemide on me before, but I got rid of it along with the rest of my stash when I moved just to be safe. I might try to get some again because I do really like getting the 5-HT2A receptor agonist effects as purely as possible, but I'm not opposed to going for the whole ayahuasca brew too. The harmalas even just by themselves have seemed interesting to me before too. Your friend's report definitely only adds to that (other than all the puking, lol).

I could see mushrooms seeming like the lighter version of ayahuasca from some perspective because I could already see that being the case with mushrooms vs smoked DMT too. Despite that though mushrooms have still seemed far more useful and enjoyable to me so far. Perhaps oral DMT will change that perspective, which I would be quite open to. I have some ideas about how I think a more completely satisfying DMT trip would go for me based on some past experiences I have. I think it could be... quite interesting. Actually I have some strange expectations for it. I've been thinking about it again lately with the things I've been going through over the past month. I really would like to get more out of DMT, it's just not something I've managed to take all the way yet. I kind of want to work with it in the same way I did recently with salvia that finally allowed me to feel like I had taken that "all the way" though, I think I might finally be in a good place to try to get the most out of it like that. But we'll see.

I doubt I'll have the chance to take it either way any time soon, but we'll see how life goes.

I don't recall the size of my larger dose on 4-HO-MIPT. Maybe it was 20 mg? Anyway, that was enough for me to be twirling around the room while emitting colorful spirally fractals from my hands, which could be zoomed and traversed in all their infinite glory. I was at the beginning of my Ph.D. research and was hoping the trip could inspire some novel insights into where to look, but instead I just got massively humbled by all the spiraling fractals. I did not get the inspiration I was hoping for, but the trip was quite fun and ended very energetically and euphorically.

This is how most 4-HO-MiPT trips go for me. It's usually the tryptamine I think of first when it comes to just having a recreational good time. I probably mostly wouldn't pick it if I was aiming to have deep philosophical thoughts, although I do find it to be impressively "deep" in certain ways particularly related to how it brings out my imagination and visionary fantasy properties. I mostly just think of it as somewhere between really fun and impressive though. I did find it to feel particularly meaningful in a group setting, more so than I think I probably would for most tryptamines.

My first time with it was perhaps on 14 mg also (?). I think most of the short trip involved some fantastic sex, and by fantastic, I also mean that I was immersed in a fantasy that my partner and I were mythical creatures---like some of Brian Froud's faeries or something---and we were participating in this wild faerie orgy.

This might sound odd, but I think you would like my psychosis, lol.

I've kind of responded to this already above. The MAOI definitely colors things a lot. Moclobemide might be the most transparent, but I don't know. I've only used B. caapi, and I think it has nice effects on its own or with mescaline. Indeed, I'm not sure I'll do it with DMT again because it's just too overpowering. I used to think I "needed my ass kicked" once in a while, but maybe because I've grown up a lot since then, I just don't feel I need that anymore.

I forgot I had mentioned the moclobemide stuff already.... Yeah, I took it on its own once and there were no really noticeable subjective effects, certainly nothing like I've heard of with harmalas. I've known other people to combine it with oral DMT before too and say it works well.

Yeah I feel that about not needing to push too hard with most things anymore, although I still kind of want to get DMT to get me "all the way there" in some way. There's definitely something to be said about less being more sometimes too though. I'm not particularly concerned with making it happen at this point in time, but I hope one day I get what I'm really wanting out of it.

I recently noticed that Shulgin actually tried nutmeg, so I guess there's that.

Nutmeg itself (not the essential oil) has been used by a lot of people for a long time. I once listened to an audio where I believe (it's been a while) Timothy Leary described using nutmeg as his first introduction to the world of psychedelia when he was young and using it to get smashed before school. I'm really not worried at all about nutmeg in particular, I wouldn't recommend going way overboard or using it all the time but I don't think it's unsafe to use just in general. There does definitely seem to be a wide variability in how much people get out of it though. I freaking loved the essential oil, although it also wasn't the most meaningful experience or anything, just really memorable and really fun.

Well now I am a bit curious, but I have no idea how I'll ever be able to try 4-HO-MET for myself. Oh well, I have more than enough stuff to play with already.

It has my recommendation if you do ever get to try it. I've had some very memorable experiences on it, although I didn't consider them the most deeply profound or anything, but definitely not superficial either, very unique. You've given me a lot of hope that mescaline might be a fitting enough substitute for getting that kind of experience without it though anyway. I'm definitely looking forward to making that evaluation one day.

This is where my responses end for now. I'll follow up with more when I get to it.

Take all the time you need as usual. :)
 
Sorry to be absent for so long. I'm working on another long reply for @kaleida, but it's not quite ready yet.

I still haven't tripped since I took 2C-B with my wife over 3 weeks ago. We had a lot of work to do together to integrate that trip, which involved many hours of intense interaction over the next week or so. We were exhausted by the end of it, but our relationship seems to have been rebooted. A great many built-up tensions and resentments have been untangled, and we feel much more comfortable with each other again.

Anyway, despite having gone past 3 weeks without a trip and the fact that most post-trip after-effects seem to have faded, my health has continued to gradually improve. A key way that I assess the state of my chronic disease is to observe how my body responds to various forms of stress. These stresses include physical activity, exposure to allergens, exposure to sunlight, exposure to temperature extremes, consumption of various irritant foods, food quantity (any more than I'm used to), sleep loss or inconsistency, emotional stress, etc. Any of these things, if strong enough, can trigger a whole basket of inflammatory symptoms. Multiple simultaneous triggers can make things much worse. So when I assess my health, I'm not just assessing how I feel from day-to-day but how I feel relative to the stress I've been under. This is key. All of the aforementioned things still trigger me, but it usually takes more extreme circumstances to do so. Furthermore, I assess how quickly I "bounce back", and I am noting that even when I am triggered, I'm bouncing back much faster. For example, if I get exposed to more sun than I'm used to, then I reliably get a red bumpy rash (regardless of whether I got sun burnt) in the area, usually in the exposed area but sometimes also in random unexposed parts of the body. At the same time, I tend to get other symptoms I call "sun sickness". I get a heavy brain fog and sleepiness but can paradoxically have insomnia. With Long COVID I got new intermittent symptoms that could also be triggered or accentuated by sun exposure.

So earlier this week I did a bunch of yard work and got more sun than I'm used to. So I got a lot of sun, performed a lot of physical activity, and exposed myself to potential allergens (leaf dust). This was also the day after the time change, and I'd been eating a lot over the weekend. In the bad Long COVID days, that would have probably left me feeling like shit and put me on the couch for a few days with probably a week needed to feel fully recovered. Now? I got the anticipated skin rash and some transient hints of brain fog / fatigue but hardly anything there. Two days later, the rash is no longer itchy or inflamed and is rapidly fading, and I felt great all day---full of energy and upbeat mood, even after the heavier exercise I did (again). So not only was my reaction to the stress mild but I mostly "bounced back" within like 24 hours.

Something that might be helping me a lot is my recent experiments with tetrahydroharmine. I have taken it three times, at 25 mg, 50 mg, and then 100 mg in succession and 3 days apart. The primary effects at 25 mg and 50 mg felt pretty similar---mostly a mood lift but also some color and music enhancement. At 100 mg, these effects were more pronounced and there was also visual "weirdness" that was hard to pin down. Like I often looked at text on a screen or a sign at a distance, and I could somehow read it effortlessly even though it looked like a blurry jumble. It feels like it facilitates intense concentration and/or day dreaming. Under its influence, it seems easier to shut out distractions and focus very deeply on the subject at hand. I think many people would appreciate this quality. Even at 100 mg though, it's still quite subtle. The other thing is that it lasts so long and has such distinct after-effects that I can't really specify a duration for it. The primary effects begin to fade after 8 hours or so, but effect of different kinds continue for days afterwards. Curiously, I experienced stronger after-effects at 25 mg and milder after-effects at 100 mg. I strongly suspect this had to do with the dosing sequence and not the actual doses. If I'd started with 100 mg, I expect the after-effects would have been stronger than they were with 25 mg.

Let me try to explain. THH is said to be a "weak SSRI". On what basis this is claimed, I don't know. My guess is that it has to do with its affinity for the serotonin reuptake transporter (SRT) and nothing more. That's to say it may not even be an SSRI but may do other things via the SRT including possibly increasing genetic expression of SRT. This is rather opposite to what most pharmaceutical SSRIs do, and in fact, THH might be closer to an "anti-SSRI" than an SSRI. So I'm inclined to assume that the early after-effects are due to increasing density of SRT, which leads to a deficiency of serotonin in the synapse. After a little while (a few days?) though, the various serotonin receptors begin to become up-regulated in response to their under-stimulation, and the system moves toward a new steady state with more SRT present but also more 5HTR present too. This might help reduce tolerance to psychedelics, but I don't know. It may depend on the circumstances.

Anyway, my subjective experience of the after-effects of THH seem quite consistent with this kind of process. In the primary effect, there is perhaps some slight enhancement of serotonin activity, either via SRT blocking, very mild MAOI effect, and/or direct activation, but another effect is to increase SRT expresion, and this maybe starts to kick in after a few hours but may take a full day or two to completely manifest. Hence, the experience gradually shifts to one of decreased serotonin activity, but this shift may depend not just on the dose but on how much SRT was already expressed. If SRT expression was already highly enhanced from previous dosage, then the increase in SRT expression may be smaller and after-effects weaker. This is my best guess as to why my 100 mg trial seemed to have fewer after-effects than my 25 mg trial. I'm now at day 4 after the 100 mg, and I had an excellent day, so it may take me about 4 days for my serotonin sensitivity to recover from the increase in SRT. One reason this may help my health is that the increase in SRT and receptor sensitivity might move the system to a more robust and flexible state, one that is more capable of absorbing shocks so to speak. SRTs are essential for the body to actually store serotonin for any length of time. SRTs on platelets take serotonin from the blood into storage. More SRTs mean potentially more serotonin being stored for a time it's actually needed. Chronic pharmaceutical SSRI use may cause chronic depletion of serotonin stores, lead to a highly unstable and fragile state in which serotonin is necessarily either absent from the synapse or present in excess.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to further THH experiments. A handful of vocal proponents recommend taking it with certain psychedelics such as mescaline. Some anecdotal evidence also suggests is potentiates DMT, possibly by preventing SRTs from pulling DMT out of the synapse as though it were serotonin. It occurs naturally as a major constituent of ayahuasca vine together with the MAOI harmine. Harmine orally activates and potentiates DMT through its MAOI action. Harmine may also increase THH absorption. THH in turn has significant oneirogenic effects, which appear to manifest regardless of whether the subject is awake or not, and which are enhanced by DMT. So in a high quality ayahuasca brew, one has these three components in balance working together synergistically. Maybe harmaline factors in too, but most brews have very little harmaline.

I hope you all are having a good week.
 
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