☮ Social ☮ PD Social Tripping Thread: aLL aBoArD tHe MoThErShiP 👽🛸

[Mr. Krinkle]

CT just to make a point. Remember the old sit coms on TV some years back? You may or may not. (Gilligan's Island comes to mind, I Dream of Jeanie etc...) But one of the notions is some of them is people putting curses on people or people having a little doll of that person. A voodoo doll. And of course if a person stuck a pin in the doll the person would feel a pinch. Or if fire is put on the dolls feet the person feels the heat. I mean it is comedy for a reason in those shows. Basically the notion is nothing can harm a person once they realize their internal power. Nothing. Sort of like how the magnetic waves surrounding the Earth protect it from so much. So I will say this because I agree with @perpetualdawn. You are getting synchronicities here wanting you to stick around and keep participating. Telling you to live. So put that out of your mind. 2024 needs CT at his best. Grudges only hurt the people holding them so if someone has one against you frig em. So even if someone did hold a grudge it is on them. So I leave it with you to keep posting and any voice or anything that does not nurture you but harm is to be released if it comes to you. It becomes a habit getting a grip on them. Already know you have the strength. I always tell crazy thoughts to get lost. Like this:

twilight zone 1985 sherman hemsley - Google Zoeken

that kinda sounds like schizophrenia to me

 

[unodelacosa]

that kinda sounds like schizophrenia to me

That reminds me of one of my favorite poems:

Roses are red,​

Violets are blue,​

I'm a schizophrenic,​

and so am I.​

​

And I know, before anyone says it, that schizophrenia is not the same thing as multiple personality disorder, but what can I tell you? I'm a Bill Murray fan.

I wonder if people who hear voices in their heads sometimes get good advice or words of encouragement from these voices, or is it always some negative terrible shit like, “The government is after you” or like, “You should kill the babysitter” or “They can all hear your thoughts and they're laughing at how ridiculous you are” or whatever? Does a voice ever say something like, “Come on, you'd be perfect for that new management position. You should update your resume and send an email to HR about it, ASAP!” Or: “Maybe what you need is a vacation to get a breather and reassess some things,” you know? Like: “Don't let that get you down, Steve; get back on your feet and try again.” You know, encouragement. It doesn't matter that your name isn't Steve, the point is: do you think this happens, but we just don't know, bc that person doesn't realize how to distinguish between having drive/career ambition and “positive-thinking schizophrenia”, so to speak?

 

[ItsAFunThing]

Well, it just happened. My first 112 call. Ate some shrooms and it felt like the worst possible poisoning and I guess I panicked and decided that hardcore embarrassment is better than being dead from some spore toxins or whatever else was in the 2 year old shroom stash. Got an iv shot of something to prevent nausea and that was it.
Good thing we have free healthcare but I bet the ambulance docs will have a giggle at how some dumbass ate shrooms and freaked out hard enough to call an ambulance and wasted their time.
I think Ill just do some yoga next time I have nothing to do instead of doing mushrooms without an appropriate ritual.

 

[ItsAFunThing]

Real embarrassing and I can't sleep at all despite it being almost 5 am and me being on melatonin and phenibut. Time to scroll BL I guess..

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

 

[JackARoe]

Oh cool, that works… me? I smoke weed, lol

Hey thanks for the banter Uno. Haha busted, posting while high. Maybe there is no other way to post on BL.

It's like that one best seller a decade or two ago called "The Secret" which proposed the secret to success was to envision your own success. While that might be a true and a component of a person motivating themselves into passion for success, I think there's a crucial thing missing from that equation: taking action. Visualizing success is not the only thing necessary for success, and while that sounds obvious I think what holds so many people back from success is because they don't muster up the gumption to take a chance on something and take action to strive quickly-but-steadily toward the goals they want in this world. Life is fleeting, friends. Ars longa, vita brevis.

Yes I remember that movie. A neighbor had recommended it years back. However I stood between being insulted to seeing the old wisdom of visualizing and it's importance. I think the movie dumbed down visualization. I mean we all visualize a lot of things we may want. I'd venture to say desire starts with a vision. And we follow those desires. We pick where we work, who we marry, where we live. All desires and all visualized to some degree first. But yes, something is missing here with The Secret. I suspect we feel the same about it. The notion that the movie put out to visualize a porsche in your garage seemed to me that these are the type of people that should not have that power if it exists.

that kinda sounds like schizophrenia to me

And because I was high it is more like diarrhea of the mouth of a high person. (I know you can all take it! ) Maybe it comes down to listening to the voices or not. But now the voice says let's get high.... (and I usually listen!)

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

And because I was high it is more like diarrhea of the mouth of a high person. (I know you can all take it! ) Maybe it comes down to listening to the voices or not. But now the voice says let's get high.... (and I usually listen!)

i wasn't saying you were sounding schiz

 

[JackARoe]

i wasn't saying you were sounding schiz

But I resemble that remark.

I agree, though voices in the head are a tough topic. I mean we all get crazy thoughts at times. But there’s a big difference between someone that has schizophrenia and someone that does not. I still have not figured it out. I’m not sure the medical field has either.

 

[Kaleida]

@iom

Woo, alright, I'm finally caught up on your responses. I still have to read your posts about your trials in between, I decided to stick with a single train of thought at first. Again I greatly appreciate you letting me take some time off, I do think it helped me a lot. Winter has often been an iffy time for me and over the past few years I've become very focused on making sure I'm taking care of my mental health, and I was just feeling a bit concerned about how some things were going there. I think I'm about ready to come back now, and in any case I didn't want to push off responding to you any longer. So here we go....

I disagree that these things would be "figured out" if not for prohibition. Don't get me wrong, prohibition is a terrible hindrance, but many other things come into play. The xenophobia against altered states of consciousness would still be there without prohibition, for example, but also the pharmacology is fundamentally difficult. There are insufficient resources (i.e. funds) to move this stuff forward faster, which is not just because of social taboo.

Look at what MAPS has done---and not done. Now, barring mismanagement of funds or other sort of dysfunction that I don't know about (which is all too common among NGOs these days), MAPS is pretty much doing as much as they can with the money they have. It's enough to get MDMA approved for PTSD, and maybe eventually psilocybin approved for depression, "treatment resistant" in both cases. This is a big deal and is leading to many exciting knock-on effects, but it's also minuscule relative to work required to really understand how these drugs actually work and what all they are actually capable of.

Of course some of this can perhaps be elucidated informally by people like us. This kind of data is anecdotal without some kind of experimental structure, but while anecdotal data tends to be unreliable, it may also be the best source of crucial insights, which can lead to formal experiments that are better designed and have a higher success rate.

I don't know, prohibition has been going on for so long that I do feel like we could have figured out quite a bit by now if we had been able to be actively researching psychedelics legally this whole time. I'm not convinced the xenophobia ever would have gotten or stayed as strong if there was no legal stigma against them or anything either. I tend to think idealistically when it comes to imagining a future (or present I suppose) where people are actually accepting of drugs though - not unrealistically, I think, but also to a degree that what I want would definitely not be just around the corner with one or two changes. It's probably fair to say that when I was saying if prohibition didn't exist, I was really thinking more along the lines of if people already fully accepted drugs in general.

I don't really have anything I would call solid plans about how to handle this stuff moving forward because that's not the kind of area I focus myself into seriously, I'm just tired and pissed about how stupid and unaccepting people are about drugs. I do genuinely think we could be much further down the road in our understanding of them if people would just lighten up already. I don't really think of any specific end goals other than the drugs being legal to use though. I am happy that people are figuring out good ways to use them, I just want us to keep being able to do that.

Interesting. I have to say though, there are gazillion variables here. Have you ever taken an extended leave from cannabis (at least a few months), and did you notice a return of these problems? Either way, I'm pretty sure there are some stoners with those kinds of health problems, so it probably doesn't work for everyone in that way.

I wouldn't assume it works for everyone, but there is actually a good amount of science these days going into how and why it does seem to work for many. It's not like I tried to tackle it like a diet and worked out for it and am ready to hype it up to everyone now, though. I just got lucky it worked out that way and am excited to see actual evidence that it's a real thing.

I don't think there are that many variables, really. Smoking cannabis was basically the only factor that changed in my life at the time. I have little doubt that that was a core influencing factor for what happened to me at the time. It has been like fifteen years since then though, and no I've barely ever stopped smoking cannabis for any extended period of time. I did once go for six months without it, but I made no attempt to monitor diabetes symptoms or anything in myself. I will say though that I don't think it's as simple as because it helps means stopping will make you go back to normal though. For instance, it's a known problem (although this works in the opposite direction, but I think it makes my point nonetheless) that some pharmaceuticals like antipsychotics can cause weight gain while taking them which doesn't just go away once you stop taking them. I personally have been prescribed olanzapine for psychotic symptoms before and a very serious consideration for me which is why I don't ever take it unless I seem like I seriously need it in that moment is because it is known to cause more serious weight gain and potentially even diabetes than other antipsychotics. I don't want to be saddled with long-lasting problems for a short-term solution, and in the same sort of way, I'm not convinced that the benefits I've received from cannabis like this would necessarily have to revert just because I stopped using it. It's an interesting topic of discussion though, and I'm not saying I understand how it would work, just wanted to point that out about drug effects not necessarily being that simple and straightforward in general.

For what it's worth there are other more pressing problems that generally stop me from abstaining from cannabis. I think I might've mentioned this before, but I tend to get frequent nightmares when I'm not smoking cannabis, and also had them regularly before ever using it in the first place, whereas I get basically none ever when I am using it regularly. That definitely makes a difference to me.... I also feel that it just helps my mood and such a lot. I am trying to seriously cut back my use of it in the near future though. I'm still living with my parents currently who are huge stoners and never don't have cannabis in the house, but once I get my own place again I think I'm just not going to buy any for a long time except for when I specifically need it for one specific upcoming event, like tripping on a weekend or something. We'll see how that goes if I manage to pull it off and if anything changes.

I'm increasingly coming around to this view myself, especially given my recent experiences. I've noticed that even when an experience has been rather "meh" or even crappy feeling, I've still gotten an impressively euphoric after-glow. At the same time, I'm not ready to dismiss the psychological process either. I think it's pretty obvious that psychedelics amplify psychological phenomena for better or worse. Is this purely an accident of nature? I don't think so, but how can I know for certain? I'll try to find out if I can. I will try not to take anything for granted either. I always try to remind myself not to be disappointed by unexpected and/or undesired outcomes because I really shouldn't hope for anything except to be enlightened as to nature's mysteries. Because when I am, I feel like the luckiest person alive.

I agree.

 

[Kaleida]

Thank you! This is the clarification I was looking for. I believe our experiences here differ. In addition to experiencing a "clean and smooth and wonderful" feeling afterwards, I also experiences feelings that resemble or reflect those of the trip itself. However, I generally find these feelings to be quite controllable and don't feel inebriated, as long as I stay sober.

Now if I smoke cannabis, it greatly amplifies these feelings and the cognitive intensity can be very significant. I like this effect very much because it's a lot like tripping on the thing I previously took, but it means that smoking weed isn't necessarily casual either unless I'm very careful guage my tolerance and mind the dosage.

I don't know how many people experience this from weed to the extent I do, but if you are a heavy cannabis smoker, this could be a major reason why your trips seem to keep going in the days after.

This is very likely an influencing factor. It didn't really used to matter much to me because I loved spending as much time as possible in the psychedelic state anyway and also had a job where I could easily set my own hours and would just not go anywhere if I felt too fucked up and such. These days I'm more attentive to stuff like that though. Also I just actually like sobriety at times now. I'm still trying to figure out all of my feelings related to it though, going back to how I'm just in a different place than I used to be with psychedelics in general these days.

This is the first I've heard of this metabolic transformation, but it doesn't seem far fetched. I should note that MAOI + oral 5-Meo-DMT use is pretty widespread including in indigenous practices, and I've read a fair number of trip reports on it. It seems I'm not alone but only a small minority of people experience what I did. On the other hand, a lot more people find bufotenine to be objectionable, don't they? That would suggest there is at least more to the story here.

I just think I react unpredictably to tryptamines and have to use more care than most. For me now, given my age and health status, that means I probably won't touch any 5-Meo tryptamines again. Like even if something like 5-Meo-DMT is safe for me, I don't think I could have a comfortable trip given my fear of physical problems. I also know that under-dosing rather sucks. In fact, I did smoke 1 mg or so once and just felt terrible---very dizzy, nauseous, buzzy (in a bad way), with intense head pressure, a headache, and a weird feeling in my lungs and throat from the smoke. Do I really want to find out how it feels to smoke more though?

I will say, arguably probably the strongest trip I ever had (in at least some measures) was from smoking 15 mg of 5-MeO-EiPT, and at the time I was worried that it almost killed me. Not because of any direct effects of the trip itself on the day of dosing, because that was actually quite smooth, but in the following days I was so profoundly affected by the trip that I forgot to eat or sleep or go to the bathroom for the most part, and it culminated in an event a few days later where I (sorry for being graphic) actually spontaneously projectile shit while taking a shower (thank god it was in the shower, at least...) and at that point suddenly realized I needed to get myself somewhere where other people also were as quickly as possible to make sure I'm actually taking care of myself and also not experiencing any sort of weird lingering physical reactions while I recover from the trip, which I did.

There's definitely something sketchy-feeling about 5-methoxytryptamines compared to other psychedelics to me. The reason I was smoking it in the first place is because they all feel fairly awful for me most of the time when taking them orally. I also actually think that even their subjective and "psychedelic" effects are noticeably different from other serotonergic psychedelics though. They just seem like very different drugs overall to me all things considered. (Obviously there are still significant overlaps between them and other psychedelics too, but still.) So, I get wanting to stay away from them. I avoided them myself on reputation alone for a long time before finally giving them a shot too.

I'm not sure I need them much more myself but I do still want to try 5-MeO-DMT one day. Hopefully while I'm still young and fit though.

That said, I do think I'm going to try smoking DMT some day. In oral form, it could terrify me like nothing else, making me fear not that my body was going to die but that my soul itself was going to be lost forever, yet somehow I came away with the understanding that this was a psychic terror that arose from the profound ego destruction and not the actual condition of my body like with 5-Meo-DMT.

If you can handle taking it orally I bet you can handle smoking it just fine. I feel weird bringing it up usually because of how popular smoking DMT has become, but to me it usually kind of feels ultimately like nothing. A trip with strong visuals that go by too fast to enjoy and not enough time to have any meaningful thoughts or work through anything because of it. I rarely see anything resembling the reputation it has for producing breakthroughs though, and even when I do, it just seems like another nice visual display without much value. On top of that I often find it hard to get comfortable with because of how quickly it comes on and how it makes me feel, which is not uncomfortable like some psychedelics in terms of muscle tension and stuff, but can just make me feel kind of slimy and alien and isn't really what I'd call fun. I'm much more interested in trying it orally myself at this point, although I'm also open to the idea that maybe DMT just isn't for me.

Generally what I tell people is that the main message I get from smoking DMT is "Stop trying to smoke DMT." My last time I tried was around a year ago and it still hadn't changed though I was hoping all the things I'd gone through in recent years might have contributed to a different headspace for me. Not really. Not trying to dunk on DMT though, I've just been kind of frustrated by it. Certain aspects of the trip remind me a lot of mushrooms in ways that I like, and I'm hoping taking it orally might bring out that side of it that I'm interested in more for me.

I think I had 4-HO-MIPT twice and 4-Aco-MIPT once. They felt quite similar, but the content of the three trips were all very different too. Both substances set in quicker orally than anything else I've had. To be clear, I'm usually at least alert within a few minutes even on phenethylamines, but with the 4-Aco-MIPT, I was feeling a strong come up by 5 minutes and was basically (+++) by 20 minutes. That trip was one of the most beautiful of my life by the way, flirting with a (++++) off of 14 mg fumerate.

That quick onset is the case for me with most synthetic 4-substituted tryptamines (and to a lesser extent mushrooms). I have a love-hate relationship with it. I like the way it hits so hard and fast but I also feel like most of my trips that involve me feeling like I wasted my time in retrospect were specifically from being hit so hard by a 4-substituted tryptamine that I just became too discombobulated to treat the trip in the way I would prefer until the peak effects passed. Most of my 4-substituted tryptamine experimentation was in my relatively earlier days of psychedelic use though, maybe I'd be better about it these days....

I do think 4-HO-MiPT is really nice, I think maybe it just wasn't quite what I was looking for for pushing deeper with back when I was really using it. I had some impressively strong experiences with it when pushing the dosage though. 50 mg gave me easily some of my strongest visuals and feelings of sensory overload ever, the kind of thing where you feel like you have to breathe voluntarily because of how acutely aware you are of every sensation and anything you look at feels like zooming in to a microscopic level of detail and still seeing patterns that are so densely packed that even at that zoomed in level the level of detail is similar to what most psychedelics give you at normal levels of perception just on the walls and stuff. It was intense. That one was a little too intense for me to do much with it other than be amazed though.

I also had DiPT-like auditory distortion that time, intriguingly. I remember when I finally got past that intense phase, I walked out into the living room and my roommate was watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer and her voice was unexpectedly deep and I cracked up walking out there as soon as I heard it. Hilarious.

I'm glad you enjoyed your experiences with the MiPTs. I've known a lot of people who had a lot of good things to say about them. They're probably some of the first ones I would recommend to others who are new to it too.

When you get around to it, be careful with it. Psychologically speaking, it is brutally powerful. I would say to prepare for total ego obliteration, but you can't really prepare for that. There's no transition to breathe through, nothing like that. Just BAM! The DMT vortex pulls you in and suddenly you know nothing about who you are, what you are doing, and why it's so damn hard to stay attached to your body. A sitter is a good idea, but he/she should understand it is no ordinary trip. In my first experience, my sitter who was quite experienced with acid was totally unprepared for supervising me on a high oral dose of DMT.

I appreciate the warning. It's something I intend to try eventually although I have no idea when such an opportunity will arise at this point. I did have some DMT and harmalas and also moclobemide ready to go for it in my old stash, but that opportunity is gone now. One day hopefully.

I try not to expect much from a psychedelic before taking it, even ones I've taken before, but I do have some weird expectations for what oral DMT might be like for me that I just can't help but have based on my many smoking experiences and also experiences through various routes with many other similar molecules. My psychedelic trips tend to be very down-to-Earth compared to what I'm used to hearing about from a lot of other people. Like, I won't be surprised if I'm a lot more likely to see strictly human entities on it than any aliens or geometric spirits or anything. I just hope it's therapeutic in some way though. I feel like that's my main goal with things these days.

Oh, that's too bad! I never experienced discomfort in my ears like that from DIPT. I suspect what you experienced wasn't actually physical, unless your blood pressure was screwed up or something. Hearing changes can strongly influence how you feel in other ways. For example, anechoic chambers cause many people to become very uncomfortable. Symptoms can include head pressure, vertigo, malaise, and nausea. This information may not be helpful to you, but it's something to keep in mind if you ever try DIPT again.

I've taken it up to 100 mg, which involved a surprisingly strong but brief tryptamine come-up followed by a rather modest feeling of alteration together with intense auditory effects. We put on "Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back" because I wondered what Darth Vader would sound like. Turns out that Darth Vader just sounded like Darth Vader, but the other men sounded like Darth Vader too. Princess Leia meanwhile sounded like a dude. This was all tremendously amusing. The coolest audio hallucination though was my lady's microwave which was rather old and kind of noisy to begin with. That microwave sounded like it was literally trying to summon Satan. I even envisioned an evil red light emanating from the kitchen. It was the spookiest sound I've ever heard.

Yeah, it sucked. I doubt I'll take it again but I appreciate the input. I did already get to experience a fun trip on it once on 30 mg and I think that was enough for me. I spent most of it amazed by how different my favorite music sounded from normal, and I remember watching Friends and finding the opening song hilarious. That's about all that stuck with me though, I think. It was quite fascinating although notably distinct from the effects I normally care about getting from drugs anyway.

Thank you! If all I can get is HCl and don't want to do any chemistry, then rectal seems like the way to go.

Good luck if you try it.

 

[Kaleida]

It absolutely depends on the oil, and it depends on the dose. My general concern is that you usually need much larger doses (say > 1000 mg) than you'd need from "research chemicals" (mostly < 100 mg), and for any given oil, there's a good chance you'll encounter acute (i.e. one-time-use) toxicity before you hit psychoactivity. This toxicity might include the liver, in which damage may not be evident unless it's substantial and even then may be delayed 24 hours or more. I would not assume nutmeg to be at all representative of the safety of the others.

I may be wrong here, but I believe seeking psychoactivity from essential oils (except maybe nutmeg, which has plenty of reports) is a much riskier business than for most "research chemicals". IIRC Shulgin expressed curiosity in essential oils himself but shied away from experimenting with them because of risk of toxicity from the high doses required. I understand you've done a lot more research on these things than I have, so I may be overly cautious and lack awareness of important details. I just hope you know what you're getting into and are well prepared to deal with whatever issues may arise. Best of luck!

Well, for what it's worth I have no interest in using any oils that I haven't already known multiple other people to use before. The only ones I've ever really been curious about are ones that I became curious about because I kept reading reports of other people using them repeatedly and getting great effects out of them. I don't recall any of them ever mentioning any apparent health problems from their use.

Research chemicals are not the metric of my experimentalism. When I was younger I did stupid stuff like taking 1000 mg of diphenhydramine too, which I consider to be a much higher risk than working with psychedelic research chemicals personally. I wouldn't recommend doing that, although I have been happy to have had that experience to draw from many times in my life, and it was interesting when it was happening. I still try to do safer stuff than that these days though. Back then I wasn't particularly concerned about living, which is not the case these days.

And thanks. I'll almost certainly use nutmeg essential oil again at some point, because I already have and I really liked it and don't have any problems to speak of with it yet. I still wouldn't take it often but I would like to experience it again. The rest is kind of up in the air. Like I said my leftover obsession with tripping from my younger days far outweighs my actually remaining desire to try new things. These days I think a lot less about trying everything out there and a lot more about making sure I have at least one tool per type of effect I want to get out of an experience. As long as I have something to make me feel a certain type of way I want to feel, I think that ends up being a lot more meaningful to me than just expanding my repertoire of possible trips.

As an aside, I got to synthesize safrole in an organic chemistry lab, and it smells so sweet and delicious.

That sounds awesome. I bet it's nice, it's supposedly what used to make root beer appealing.

Apologies here. I tried to nest the quotes here for better context, but couldn't get it to work.

I think you misunderstood me, but that's ok. I meant what I wrote in the hypothetical sense of if/when you ever do decide to trip on a serotonergic psychedelic again. My words "given the current situation" probably obscured my intent. Either way, I only meant it as a suggestion largely based on what I would do, which may not be consistent with your interest after all. I very much appreciate you clarifying your position and will try to be more sensitive to it in the future.

No worries. I'm just kind of in a weird place with psychedelics myself right now. I understand and appreciate that you're just trying to look out for me.

I was speaking in terms of policies that are being seriously considered today. The current path toward legalization in the U.S. involves FDA approval and tightly restricted prescription-only availability. Without additional policy changes, criminal penalties would remain for non-prescription use. I think this technically qualifies as legalization, even if it's not the "full" legalization we want.

In addition to medical-based legalization (which is still in the process of being implemented) in Colorado there is also decrminalization which removes criminal penalties (at the state level) for non-prescription possession and use of many psychedelic plants. I think this is a very big deal. Now "regular" people can use psychedelics without needing to go through the health care system and come up with the money (or have the "right" insurance).

I just want things to be available in the way you're talking about with decriminalization except also with full federal legalization. You say the "current path toward legalization" but I don't really see it that way. There are no rules in the real world. Things can be done differently than they have been before at any time. I wholly reject the idea that anything has to be done a specific way. I don't have much positive expectation for what people will actually do, though.

Basically what I was getting at before is that if there's still a system where anyone can arrest you for it under any circumstances, that's unacceptable in my eyes. As someone who's never had trouble getting my hands on drugs, obtaining the drugs without having to go through healthcare or something has never been an important issue for me. I'm much more concerned about being not being politically scapegoated with drugs being used as an excuse to arrest people and stuff like that. That's my main concern as far as legalization goes. Although obviously I think they should just be legal anyway even not considering that.

I think "full legalization" needs to be qualified. Is it legalized like food? Like tobacco? Like alcohol? Like Prozac? Like ketamine? Like datura? Or do we do something totally different from all of these? I lean toward a totally different approach, but I don't know what that ought to look like. With decriminalization, the messy details can be decided upon after more experience is gained. If decriminalizaton is successful in Colorado and others places that implement it, it will bring wider legalization closer to reality. In the meantime, people who live where psychedelics are decriminalized can use them in private as individuals or in private groups with little fear of criminal penalties. That's a really big deal with significant and hopefully positive consequences!

I hope so too.

But like I said, to me legal means you can't be arrested for it. It does not imply any further situation beyond that. The discussion beyond that point is not what I would consider a discussion about legalization, but rather about things like regulation. I have opinions about that too but I don't consider any of them to be as important as taking arresting people for using drugs off the table. And while I realize that's literally the meaning of decriminalization, on a state level specifically only, that's not what it actually attains. Hopefully it will get us there eventually, but like I said I'm just mad we have to wait and go through all this in the first place. I'm just tired of dealing with people about it.

Hmm, weird. I mean, mescaline is unmistakably a phenethylamine---worlds apart from any tryptamine I've had. (I haven't had 4-HO-MET though.) If you do get around to trying mescaline, I hope I'm around to learn whether you would still make this comparison.

I've always considered 4-HO-MET to be very phenethylamine-like for a tryptamine, for what it's worth. I used to often call it "the 2C-B of the 4-substituted tryptamines." I don't think I've ever taken another tryptamine, or frankly really any psychedelic for that matter, that put me in the exact same sort of headspace that it does. Your mescaline trip description you gave does sound remarkably similar to what I've experienced on it, though.

I'll definitely let you know how it goes when I get around to it, if you are here.

Sorry that it's taken me so long to finish my replies to you! The holiday week provided many distractions, and I had much less time for activities like writing. On top of that, I've had a multi-day migraine headache all weekend---the worst I've had since I started taking psychedelics again. Hopefully it will be all gone tomorrow, and I can do my next 2C-B trial. I'll post my last reply tomorrow if I'm not too tired.

It's all good, I really don't require a fast response anyway even if I wasn't taking a break myself. I used to try to tackle several long internet conversations at once all the time and would end up abandoning a lot of them because it just built up to be too much to handle at the pace I was trying to converse at. I'd rather be able to take conversations to their conclusion even if it takes longer to get there. I appreciate you responding eventually when you can.

 

[Kaleida]

As hinted at in an earlier post of mine, when I smoke cannabis within some days of weeks of a recent serotonergic psychedelic drug experience, I tend to experience a kind of simulated replay of the effects. I never understood how this was possible, and was kind of skeptical about it with myself. Once in a while the effect was so strong as to catch me off guard. A couple times when smoking someone else's weed, I had to talk myself down in my head that the weed wasn't laced. (I don't think it was---I was just seeing crazy shit and having paranoid thoughts!)

Yeah, it's wild how it works like that. It usually doesn't affect me to the point that I was worried about it, although one time while young I took 20 blotters of LSD and the next day went over to a friend's house and smoked a blunt, and I nearly passed out from the intensity of it all coming back to me. I mostly don't remember what it was like before I was aware that it worked that way though.

Anyway, only recently have I learned about the 5ht2a/CB1 heterodimers, and I have to wonder if they play a role in my experiences with post-trip cannabis. When I was young, I also tended to experience cannabis of providing a simulated replay of not just psychedelics but other drugs I might have recently taken. Perhaps this is enabled via heterodimers involving CB1 and other receptor types? Another question I have, but have not dug enough to figure out whether it's answered is how dynamic the expression of these heterodimers are. Like, are there just a bunch of things with 5ht2a+CB1s receptors hanging around all the time? Or is their expression highly subject to environmental changes?

I don't have enough knowledge to answer that with confidence but I think it's subject to environmental changes and such like you said. To my knowledge the expression of heterodimers is very dynamic and can be changed a lot by at least things like drug experiences, as for instance I remember reading that THC causes an upregulation of 5-HT2A-D2 heterodimers.

I'll tell you that some of the most shocking experiences I've ever had were not from cannabis bringing back the effects of drugs, but from cannabis bringing back the effects of non-drug highs. One time, I stayed up all night playing an old game called Phantasy Star Online, which when I was younger I was very obsessed with to the point of calling it my favorite game for many years and it being the kind of game I could easily play days in a row with little desire to eat or sleep or anything, definitely the kind of thing that felt like it was probably getting the dopamine flowing and stuff. The game was filled with reward, like rare items that my brain would easily hone into. So once, I was playing that all night long, then in the morning (without sleep in between to be clear) took a shower and took some big bong hits before getting in. When I was in the shower, suddenly I started hearing the video game music playing again clear as day, and I started visually hallucinating imagery from the game on the walls around me, with a particular focus on the green arrows that tell you an item has dropped nearby specifically pointing to the red item box that represents rare items, just appearing out of nowhere all around me in the shower. It only lasted a short while before just fading away though. Still, it seemed undeniably clear to me that the game seemed to have gotten me as high as a drug often could for someone, and then once I smoked cannabis after that "high" was over, the cannabis brought it back as if it was still going on like it can with a trip and other drugs. Crazy stuff.

Many years later I also once won a five-figure jackpot on a slot machine with a less-than-$1 bet (seriously). At the time I had already been trying to compare the high of gambling to the high of drugs because I felt that they were unusually similar for a non-drug high. I had been thinking that the gambling feeling kind of reminded me of 2C-x drugs, although more so just the high and not the full trip, but the casino atmosphere was kind of trippy itself in a similar way I thought. When I won that jackpot, I thought it felt more like a DOx high, and legitimately kept me feeling an extremely profound high and peace for several days afterward. Not long after that, I smoked some cannabis one day and suddenly out of nowhere had visual and auditory hallucinations of the slot machine game appearing in front of me for just a quick flash, and then it was gone.

So yeah, cannabis can definitely bring a lot of things back. I don't know how it works, but I have read that supposedly the CB1 receptor is the most abundant G protein-coupled receptor in the brain. I tend to imagine it must just have its fingers all the pies, and I would imagine that the heterodimers could probably contribute to that too.

On another note, last week I tried a cannabis edible for the first time in over a decade. It was only 10 mg. I don't think I liked it much. I'm a very regular but light smoker, and I wanted to test out its potential in casual/public environments. For what it's worth, it did not resemble LSD to me at all, nor has any past cannabis edible experience of mine. It definitely kept me high without having to smoke anything, which is a big plus, but the effects were much less casual and more overtly psychedelic. It's weird because I probably could have tolerated 20 mg just fine, but even at 10 mg, I just felt too edgy to want to be in most public places. In the past, I usually ate food made from lower grade weed, so I think I'll have to try different formulas to maybe find something mellower.

For what it's worth, I treat my cannabis edible experiences like a psychedelic and do them alone at home, which I think based on my experience of trying it elsewhere is likely very important for me getting the most psychedelic experience possible out of them (as, in my experience, it is for serotonergic psychedelics as well), and 10 mg would also be too low of a dosage for me to actually get that LSD-like kind of trip out of it. 20 mg is usually my minimum and that's mostly just for "getting high" as it were, although I do still find that dosage to be notably trippier than a smoking high and to sometimes (rarely and less intensely) include visuals. 30 mg seems to be about the dosage where I'm more likely to start getting realistic mind's eye visions, with 40 mg making that more likely and sometimes causing minor geometric visuals (complex actually but faint) with eyes open, while 50 mg has been required for me to completely break through into a full psychedelic trip-like feeling so far. I should note too that this is all very recent with me very purposefully having the intention of treating it this way; I've taken as much as around like 200 mg at once before while doing things like going to the airport and taking a flight so being distracted the whole time and it was much less trippy, although it was still notably more trippy than smoking cannabis ever is for me. That was many years ago and was notably before my more severe mental health episodes, which... to make a long story short, I do feel opened me up to some stuff I wasn't opened up to beforehand.

For what it's worth I think I'd say it's been closer to ETH-LAD than LSD for me so far, although there have been some notably LSD-like moments too. There have also, unsurprisingly, been some elements of those same trips that were what I would call at least psychedelic adjacent, clearly similar enough and occurring at the same time as the more directly lysergamide-like effects for me that if it was, say, the 1960s I'm sure I would have no problem whatsoever just calling them psychedelic without any need for extra clarification, but for what it's worth they're not actually things I've experienced identically on any serotonergic psychedelics. For instance, one time I took 30 mg of THC and as it was peaking jumped on my bed, which was decently comfy on its own, but as soon as I did it was like a bubble burst in my mind's eye and I could clearly perceive myself as lying on an incredibly furry and delicate pink blanket (which was not on my actual bed nor anything like that) and it was so realistic to me that when I moved my hand around on the actual blanket on the bed it felt as though I was rubbing that furry pink blanket instead, like it was bliss both in and of itself and also the lucid realization of how sturdy of a hallucination it was. Conceptually, it was definitely a lot more like a serotonergic psychedelic than really any other type of drug I can think to immediately compare it to, but I've never actually had that specifically happen to me on a serotonergic psychedelic, or even anything almost exactly like it that I can immediately recall. On the other hand, on one of my 50 mg THC trips I did have a specific geometric visual effect that was very obviously to me literally exactly the same thing I experienced once on a powerful 5 blotter LSD trip many years prior, to the point that I was just like "Holy shit, this is exactly like LSD!"

I assume I'm probably sensitive to it though. I seem to be sensitive to tripping on most things these days.

Good luck with your future attempts to try to get something out of it yourself.

This part has been very difficult for me to respond to because I have so many thoughts, and I can't really write them all down. I'm also constantly thinking about these things. In person, I could probably talk for many hours. I completely relate to and sympathize with what you've said here. I definitely agree that it's important to avoid allowing theoretical preconceptions to contaminate future experiences. This is much easier said than done, and I know I'm guilty of this as most of us are.

My recent experiences with 2C-B really highlight this. A long time ago, I always wanted to try 2C-B but could only find 2C-I for several years. I regarded 2C-I to be a "slightly more potent, longer lasting, more stimulating version of 2C-B", based on the chemical analogy and subjective reports. I became very familiar with 2C-I, and I looked forward to trying its mellower, short-duration cousin. In the early days, I also got to experiment with 2C-C, which I likened to a "extra mellow" version of 2C-I, but I don't feel I got to know it well despite 3 or 4 times with it. In any case, when I finally tried 2C-B, I was very disappointed. Instead of finding a superior version of 2C-I, I found an inferior one. (See what I did there?)

Only now, 1.5 decades later, I've revisited 2C-B and discovered that its effect is much less 2C-I than I'd assumed. I'm not sure it much resembles 2C-C either, but my memories of that are distant. If I didn't know better already, I wouldn't guess they were chemically very close. By evaluating 2C-B on its own terms rather than trying to compare it to 2C-I, I can now identify qualities that are unique and pleasing about it. While 2C-B is certainly not going to be my favorite, I think that in the future I will probably use it more than 2C-I.

Yep, I can relate to that a lot. I find it's weirdly easy to assume that we're going to like certain psychedelics more than others in ways that don't really match up to how those drugs actually work. When I was first researching tryptamines I remember thinking the least of all about the ones with ethyl tails, but those ended up being the ones that tended to often blow my mind and leave lasting impressions the most, whereas I remember looking forward to 4-HO-MiPT for instance a lot but then mostly thinking I liked it for a lighter experience in the end. It's definitely best to just let things be what they are, not that it's easy.

I liked 2C-I a lot too but I ultimately felt that it seemed kind of shallow for what I wanted. I haven't used 2C-B as much as I would like but I think I would want it more than 2C-I these days too. 2C-C has been my favorite of them so far, the visuals it gave me were absolutely stunning and the body high was pretty phenomenal too. I will say I mostly think of it as for fun though, and particularly for that reason I feel antsy when it wears off so quickly. My one gripe with it.

So I guess I need to be more careful reaching conclusions by chemical analogy. Maybe 4-HO-DET can be like mescaline even though it's a tryptamine and is chemically similar to psilocin. I mean, I've always felt that of the ones I've tried, phenethylamines and tryptamines feel quite distinct as categories. And LSD seems to me a bit more phen than trypt but still very distinct. Sometimes I wonder though. It's a shame that the time courses of phens vs. LSD vs. trypts are so different (and easily identified, IMO) because it would be interesting to try to blindly test myself in my ability to discern what I've taken.

For what it's worth, I think it's worth considering that as complex as 5-HT2A receptors are relatively speaking, there are still many more psychedelic drugs than there are 5-HT2A receptor-related pathways (as far as I'm aware of us knowing about, anyway). I don't think it's odd at all that after trying so many of them many trends will start to appear between them, even between chemically-unrelated molecules. I can't remember where this was written anymore, but I believe I recall reading years ago that Alexander Shulgin eventually started having similar thoughts, that psychedelics as a whole were similar even when they didn't share chemical families and despite how different two given drugs can be from one another. Personally, I have frequently made comparisons between psychedelic molecules of different families; for instance, I found EPT closer to 2C-C than EPT is to DMT or 2C-C is to DOC. I also did read a description of some mescaline visuals once that reminded me not of most other psychedelics I've tried but did remind me a lot of things I've experienced on 4-HO-DET and 4-AcO-DET, which themselves I also find distinct from most other psychedelics I've tried. That's another thing that makes me eager to try mescaline too actually, because I feel like that's one of the core interesting types of trips I've gotten that I wouldn't expect to be able to get from just sticking to things like mushrooms and LSD now that my stash is gone, so I'm hoping mescaline might be able to bring me back to that (although I'm not going to complain if it doesn't, it's just a thought).

Personally, I actually don't find LSD particularly reminiscent of phenethylamines, and rather would much more readily compare it to many synthetic tryptamines I've taken. The MPTs in particular that I've used, 4-HO-MPT and MPT, I find to feel extremely reminiscent of LSD, almost just like LSD fused with psilocin or DMT, respectively. However, I personally don't find this surprising, given that MPT is almost identical in chemical structure to LSA.

Spoiler: An old graphic I made for reference.

That's not to say that I don't find some phenethylamines notably comparable to LSD, too. DOB and DOPR for instance both stand out as having certain similarities to it for me, although still being notably distinct overall too. I also agree somewhat with the general consensus that 2C-E might be one of the most similar ones to it, although I think I'd actually be quicker to compare it to the likes of 4-HO-MPT than to LSD itself so far.

I will say, one of the ways I've personally adapted to trying to not jump to conclusions about my experiences with psychedelics - and I'm not trying to say this must be true for anyone else, just that it's very much something I actively and consciously dealt with as part of my own journey - is that I had to realize that I was absolutely obsessed with trying to compare different psychedelics to LSD, which traditionally was by far my favorite, in a way that I feel fundamentally suggests that LSD is like a super unique psychedelic and I was always trying to seek out things as similar to that uniqueness as possible, when in reality, what I feel I've realized after trying a large number of different psychedelics is, I actually find *most* psychedelics kind of similar to LSD, in comparison to, say, something like psilocin, which I actually find to be more of an outlier. That is to say, these days I actually think of LSD as more like a commonplace type of psychedelic, and just one that I happen to like a lot, but not one that stands out for its uniqueness of something. I think that mushroom trip I just had recently was actually a lot more distinct from most psychedelic experiences I've had than LSD is compared to most other psychedelics I've tried.

So, this is mainly just to say that I've put a lot of thought into cross-class psychedelic comparisons, and I do think there's something there. I think psychedelics are simultaneously complex enough that it's worth paying attention to the differences between different molecules, but simultaneously similar enough that it's more than possible to compare different molecules even with very different molecular structures, even things as distinct as like tryptamines vs phenethylamines. That leads into what I was talking about with trying to focus more these days on the specific kinds of effects I get out of a drug.... Like, these days things I tend to ask myself are more like, "Will it makes me laugh? Will it make me cry? Will it make me orgasm? Will it teach me something?" I find that these benchmarks seem to help me decide what tools are important to seek out and have in my life more than just having every psychedelic possible, which again I had reached a point of mostly not even using anyway since I just had so many and most of them didn't call out to me as much as a smaller subset of them. But again too this is just my own journey, I'm just sharing it to provide some perspective. And again I also get how this is a very different thing than seeking out a drug for something like anti-inflammatory effects, I think of that as a totally different ballgame.

The last thing I'll say here is that I have rather suddenly found myself more interested in the pharmacology than I would have been because I'm interested in the physiological healing aspects. The interesting thing is that I think it would be easier to study 5ht2a in the peripheral body than in the brain, and such studies might lead to very interesting insights. These insights may in turn facilitate understanding of the brain being that many mechanisms may work analogously (e.g. inflammation causing both physical and psychic pain).

That's totally understandable and I agree completely.

Something that would be very helpful to science is to discover one or more naturally occurring ligands that are 5ht2a (and/or 5ht2b/c) selective because monitoring such a ligand in physiological processes might give deeper insight into what those receptors are actually for. I'm seeing strong indications that these receptors are very important for modulating all manner of bodily processes, and therefore, it may be expected that monkeying with them using psychedelics may be producing a wide variety of interesting outcomes, even ignoring what's going on in the brain.

Most intriguing is how much 5ht2a seems to be involved in wound response including immune modulation, inflammation, and tissue regeneration. There's so much going on there, that it should be taken very seriously. That is to say that various psychedelics appear capable of exerting strong effects directly on the body and which may very directly impact physiological health. These effects could be positive, negative, or both. I'll just emphasize again that 5ht2a is multi-fuctional, and psychedelics have a balance of effects qualitatively distinct from each other and from serotonin. The history of indigenous use of certain psychedelic plants certainly suggests that most of the benefits of using these plants are positive. Regardless, these things should be investigated for as many psychedelic drugs as reasonably possible, both to improve knowledge of safe use and to learn more about how to potentially accelerate healing of the body.

Synthetic psychedelics actually scare me a lot because of the potential negative effects of 5-HT2B receptor agonism. As weird as this seems, I have seen what I consider to be decent scientific evidence that LSD, psilocin, and mescaline might be uniquely weak 5-HT2B receptor agonists among the available psychedelics, with synthetic tryptamines, lysergamides, and phenethylamines alike on average all tending to have much higher 5-HT2B receptor agonist activities than these three "classical" drugs. Given that phenethylamines (like MDMA) and lysergamides (like cabergoline) have been associated with 5-HT2B receptor-associated heart valve problems, I feel that some concern about what otherwise safe-seeming psychedelics might be doing to our bodies. It is true that most drugs associated with heart problems from 5-HT2B receptor activation are taken every day in high dosages which seems to be an important part of what causes the damage to build up and is obviously different from how most people use most psychedelics, but still I find it concerning. Alexander Shulgin himself did have to have a heart valve surgery late in life of the kind that to my knowledge would be the kind we could expect to be related to the kind of heart valve damage caused by chronic 5-HT2B receptor agonism. That being said, it happened late in his life in old age, and he had an amazing life with lots of obviously therapeutic psychedelic and empathogen experiences leading up to that point, so... is it a fair trade? Perhaps, at least if you ask me (since it would obviously be an individual matter). But still, if I can easily avoid that kind of damage knowingly and still get the things I need, it seems desirable.

So yeah, I think about this kind of thing a lot. I've often felt, not only physiologically but also psychologically, that even what we consider "safe" use of psychedelics may be fairly recklessly inducing all kinds of bodily processes that we don't really grasp the nature of but just blindly jump headfirst into anyway. Like even things like what we call ego death, are they just crazy shit caused by drugs that passes once the drugs leave our system, or are they inherent brain functions with permanent consequences that we're forcing to happen at times they didn't evolve for without concern for what the many complex biological implications of things like that may be? It's something I've thought about in particular since my psychotic episodes.... I think there's quite a lot going on with these drugs and our biology that we may be assuming are simpler than they actually are, even when we consciously think we're already assuming them to be quite complex. I think it's a double-edged sword for sure although one that's still probably worth wielding for the sake of science.

 

[Kaleida]

I'm glad you had a good mushroom trip! I actually had a lot of excellent mushroom trips, despite the fact that I reliably rank shrooms below many other psychedelics. I enjoyed them a lot at low doses in small groups of friends. Even at small doses, I feel like the ego effects are strong, and I like the ego softening a lot. I just have to avoid taking too much or I'll "go fetal", lol.

Thanks. It was actually a very, very, very good trip for me. Extremely insightful and therapeutic for me.

I only took two grams but found the effects similar to smoking DMT in some notable ways. It seems like they may be pretty potent mushrooms, which is great because I've still got some more left over. I was intending to use that as a first-trial dosage but I think next time I might take only a single gram and see what that does for me rather than moving up first.

I also used to rank mushrooms below most other things personally, despite always liking and getting things out of my experiences with them. That was back in the days when I was obsessed with LSD and finding other things that were like it. Now, I have to say, I liked this trip so much that I feel like it might have skyrocketed at least close to the top of the list of psychedelics I'd actually be interested in using again now, although I'm still not sure when I would actually want to use it again, but nonetheless. A lot has changed for me in the over-a-decade since the last time I took mushrooms, like a whole lot. I'm actually finding it hard to not say that this might have been the or one of my most satisfying psychedelic trips of all time, at least in some specific ways that kind of caught me by surprise but really stand out. It really helped me put in perspective a lot of what I've been through lately and what it means for what psychedelics I like the most and get the most out of these days, which is actually what I was hoping it would do. (I had been specifically wanting to seek them out as an exception to my general lessened interest in tripping in lately, similar to wanting to try mescaline and 5-MeO-DMT for the first time and to take LSD again after so many years.) It's definitely given me a whole lot to think about. It's part of why I'm more excited to try oral DMT again too, since I do think DMT is one of the most clearly similar psychedelics to psilocin for me personally and I can relate this trip I had to ones I've had smoking DMT in the past too, and particularly in ways that seem to help me bring some old observations from DMT trips full circle where said observations used to seem kind of meaningless to me.

(I love psychedelics....)

Also yeah, I took five grams of mushrooms once many years ago and was so out of it I couldn't remember how to put my robe on to go to the bathroom in my college dorm so I wouldn't have to walk past my drug-free suitemates naked, lol. Mushrooms are ridiculous. I'm glad I didn't need that much to really get something good out of them this time.

I am feeling very good lately. I actually felt like my health was setback a bit during the holiday, perhaps because of some combination of eating too much free fructose and likely being exposed to a lot of ambient SARS2 and other crap, which may have not been infectious to me but likely has had my immune system overly active in my gut and brain. Then there was the emotional turmoil of familial relationship issues on one side and stress involving a visit from the other. Then there was the horrible 3 day migraine. All things considered, I didn't feel too bad, but I definitely didn't feel like I was "in remission", especially with the migraine hitting me like it did.

I'm glad to hear that you're feeling well now. And that you're beyond your recent stresses. I had my own and they sucked. I hope you continue to feel better as we continue on into the new year.

On New Years Day my head was finally clear and I took 7.5 mg 2C-B. I posted a short report to the B&D thread. I'm now contemplating the timing and substance for my next experiment. I've been thinking a lot about mescaline cacti lately. I hear the calling strongly, but the weather forecast doesn't look to be very friendly to a desert plant spirit any time soon. Maybe it will forgive me. I do intend to titrate it like the others so I can assess its mental as well as physiological effects (as best I can) at the lower doses. Cacti may be the best option (other than psilocybin) for other people to use to treat themselves medicinally, so I definitely think it's worth exploring thoroughly.

I'll read about your trials soon, I just need to stop and eat lunch and make sure I'm not forgetting about anything else I need to get done today. I look forward to what you've had to say in them and will have to say with any future experiments!

Anyway, I hope your week is going well!

Thanks, you too. Mine's going alright.

I appreciate the responses once again as well.

 

[Kaleida]

Well, it just happened. My first 112 call. Ate some shrooms and it felt like the worst possible poisoning and I guess I panicked and decided that hardcore embarrassment is better than being dead from some spore toxins or whatever else was in the 2 year old shroom stash. Got an iv shot of something to prevent nausea and that was it.
Good thing we have free healthcare but I bet the ambulance docs will have a giggle at how some dumbass ate shrooms and freaked out hard enough to call an ambulance and wasted their time.
I think Ill just do some yoga next time I have nothing to do instead of doing mushrooms without an appropriate ritual.

Trip sitters can sometimes be useful. I've had a friend on mushrooms broken down and panicking absolutely begging me to take him to the hospital. Nope. You bought your ticket, you're taking the ride.

That being said I literally never have a trip sitter.

I've been to the ER twice for cannabis-related panic attacks. It happens.

Try to avoid letting it happen again though because they rarely treat you with respect and at worst may treat you as a criminal.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

I'm so so with DMT, but when I did it peaking on 2 hits of LSD, it was phenomenal

I highly recommend it

 

[Kaleida]

I'm so so with DMT, but when I did it peaking on 2 hits of LSD, it was phenomenal

I highly recommend it

I've heard this before. I may have to give it a shot. I'm definitely still interested in oral DMT on its own but getting pretty tired of mediocre smoked experiences.

 

[Freeotrope]

Just took 12mg of 2C-B dissolved in a glass of water. I'm curious to explore low dose psychedelics with meditation.

Funny thing is I've been putting this off for days because anxiety around mild nausea! I've done all sorts of uncomfortable things, done ayahuasca and things like TMA-2 which have more nausea and suddenly I'm scarred of a little nausea. Funny how things can change, or how I can get used to comforts. Who knows, maybe its something else I'm scared of, but I think its really just the nausea.


Edit: I could feel it coming on within 15 minutes, seems fast even with it dissolved in water. Over the years I notice the come up earlier, I think its because I'm much more sensitive to my body/energy sensations. But even the changes to saliva happen earlier, maybe some pavlovian conditioning?

I realized what the nausea fear was about. The last substance I took was MDMA, 120mg renally. I ended up vomiting really badly over and over again, even looked like there was some blood in the vomit. That was so unexpected and uncomfortable.

 

[Kaleida]

Just took 12mg of 2C-B dissolved in a glass of water. I'm curious to explore low dose psychedelics with meditation.

Funny thing is I've been putting this off for days because anxiety around mild nausea! I've done all sorts of uncomfortable things, done ayahuasca and things like TMA-2 which have more nausea and suddenly I'm scarred of a little nausea. Funny how things can change, or how I can get used to comforts. Who knows, maybe its something else I'm scared of, but I think its really just the nausea.

It's hard to want to get back into something because of shit like this when you've been away for a while. It's so easy to only remember the good parts. The nausea on my recent mushroom trip seemed crucial to it actually turning out to be one of the most remarkable trips I've had in a really long time though. If you didn't like it so much before you wouldn't remember it as being as great as it was. Hope it's a good one this time too.

 

[Freeotrope]

-

It's hard to want to get back into something because of shit like this when you've been away for a while. It's so easy to only remember the good parts. The nausea on my recent mushroom trip seemed crucial to it actually turning out to be one of the most remarkable trips I've had in a really long time though. If you didn't like it so much before you wouldn't remember it as being as great as it was. Hope it's a good one this time too.

Thanks, as its comming on its like an old familiar friend, its mild but the recognition of the friend and how much its given me over the years fills me with trust and gratitude, and beautiful to have a human on the net who understands

 

[Kaleida]

Thanks, as its comming on its like an old familiar friend, its mild but the recognition of the friend and how much its given me over the years fills me with trust and gratitude, and beautiful to have a human on the net who understands

I know that feeling well. Glad to hear it's going well.