Opioids Opiods don't affect me?

[shadowstryker]

So telling people that you can't overdose on heroin if you smoke it is good advice? I'm not trying to pick on you dude. Hell, I like you man but you are being very careless with other people lives. One day you will be older and you will know the other side of addiction and you will have lived through the dangers of overdosing and I promise you will be much more cautious in your advice.

Okay look, maybe I took it as a little too personal, but you're definitely being too harsh. I never told anyone you can't od smoking heroin. I found the thread, my exact words were:

stop when you feel that you've had enough, it's pretty hard to OD from smoking heroin, you're more likely to pass out before ODing (it's possible, just very hard).

And from my experience as well as what I've been told numerous times on this forum that is true.

 

[Keif' Richards]

So telling people that you can't overdose on heroin if you smoke it is good advice? I'm not trying to pick on you dude. Hell, I like you man but you are being very careless with other people lives. One day you will be older and you will know the other side of addiction and you will have lived through the dangers of overdosing and I promise you will be much more cautious in your advice.

gmlifer, I don't wish to start an online flame war with you, but please, quiet yourself. Your commentary on addiction potential is both unwanted and irrelevant. How are you helping OP use safely? This is Bluelight. People come here to discuss drug use. There is a forum, "The Dark Side" that provides useful and supportive information regarding the process of getting and staying clean. These posts would be appropriate there.

OP clearly has a naturally high tolerance. It is not unheard of. I, too don't get off on any less than 40mg of Oxycodone. It was like that from day one for me. If someone is taking 15mg of the drug and experiencing little effect, it's straight up, logical advice, to suggest a higher dosage. You have to assume that people are going to use and some will use dangerously, so we have to do our best to inform the users of the safest way.

Gmlifer, you really shouldn't be calling people out for having "mental problems". If you're angry with shadowstryker, be an adult and talk it out. Name calling and negative banter aren't necessary and in fact, interfere with the flow of information, which is most defintely against the philosophy of Harm Reduction.

 

[tacodude]

If shadow striker would actually talk honestly with respect not only to the person he is talking to, but himself. Shadow has contestantly expressed his morbid thinking as hopes to die while making plans, following through with them, and only to come on here and bullshit how sorry he felt while rationalizing his suicidal ideation constantly looking for approval only to give out extremely harmful advice based on his own use that is beyond careless as he has hoped to die for months at this point if not longer. He has mental health issues and needs help.... Whether it's just basic depression and anxiety or something more serious is up to a professional to diagnose, but only if shadow gives any professional the opportunity by being honest about his feelings.

 

[gmlifer]

gmlifer, I don't wish to start an online flame war with you, but please, quiet yourself. Your commentary on addiction potential is both unwanted and irrelevant. How are you helping OP use safely? This is Bluelight. People come here to discuss drug use. There is a forum, "The Dark Side" that provides useful and supportive information regarding the process of getting and staying clean. These posts would be appropriate there.

OP clearly has a naturally high tolerance. It is not unheard of. I, too don't get off on any less than 40mg of Oxycodone. It was like that from day one for me. If someone is taking 15mg of the drug and experiencing little effect, it's straight up, logical advice, to suggest a higher dosage. You have to assume that people are going to use and some will use dangerously, so we have to do our best to inform the users of the safest way.

Gmlifer, you really shouldn't be calling people out for having "mental problems". If you're angry with shadowstryker, be an adult and talk it out. Name calling and negative banter aren't necessary and in fact, interfere with the flow of information, which is most defintely against the philosophy of Harm Reduction.

The paragraph below is directly from the forum guidelines. How can you guys tell anyone what this site is about if you didn't even read to second paragraph of the rules?


SAFETY FIRST! Beyond all other goals, Other Drugs is a harm reduction form. Please keep this in mind when posting. We are not here to help get you as high as possible. We will not allow posts or threads promoting or glorifying dangerous drug use practices including intravenous drug use. We are here to promote safe, smart, and responsible drug use. We are not here to glorify drug use in any way shape or form. Any threads or posts that are counterproductive to that goal will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be warned and subsequently infracted

 

[Keif' Richards]

^By that logic, nobody should ever use a recreational drug and hence, Bluelight should not exist. How are you not aware of the thread you're pulling on here? It will destroy the whole sweater if you continue to pull. If someone says "I've blow all my veins, I'm thinking about injecting into my Femoral..." is it productive of "safe" to answer his question with a lecture on the dangers and peril of Opioid dependence/use? Or shall we do our best to help this person?

I appreciate you taking the time to find and post the forum guidelines. I think you'll agree with me when I say the word "Glorify" carries a pretty strong meaning. To raise up; to make seem cool; to make seem right; however you define the word, I don't think you'll find any instance of glorification by myself or anybody else in this particular thread, but I do agree, when people glorify dangerous drug practices, it is counterproductive to HR and not in the spirit of the forum.

"We are here to promote safe, smart and responsible drug use."

 

[shadowstryker]

If shadow striker would actually talk honestly with respect not only to the person he is talking to, but himself. Shadow has contestantly expressed his morbid thinking as hopes to die while making plans, following through with them, and only to come on here and bullshit how sorry he felt while rationalizing his suicidal ideation constantly looking for approval only to give out extremely harmful advice based on his own use that is beyond careless as he has hoped to die for months at this point if not longer. He has mental health issues and needs help.... Whether it's just basic depression and anxiety or something more serious is up to a professional to diagnose, but only if shadow gives any professional the opportunity by being honest about his feelings.

I don't understand how my advice is careless. As the other poster said, OP obviously has a high natural tolerance and its logical to say that he should try a higher dose. If a patient goes to a pain doctor saying his medication isn't doing anything for him what does the doctor do? He raises the dosage. As for the other thread, my post also was not careless. I told the OP in that thread that it is hard to OD smoking heroin yet very possible and to watch out. Where is the disrespect? Or, I'm sorry, just because I almost died I'm no longer allowed to advise people and answer their questions? I'm sorry that you don't like the truth, but the truth hurts sometimes. I refuse to make a post in every single thread saying the OP needs to stop opiates immediately. That's not what they're asking. If there's a thread titled "should i stop my opiate use" then feel free to post that there, but this is not the thread for that.

 

[LesFleursDuMal]

Yep, better shut down Bluelight.

To the OP, I'll say this much: When you are feeling pain, opiates do their job. When you are not in pain, opiates still do their job. It sounds like you've only ever taken them when you needed to relieve pain and this is the reason for you not feeling "high" I've been in the hospital for surgery and been given IV drugs which normally would make me feel high but in that circumstance only relieved my pain, made me vomit, etc. If it is your goal to get high take opiates in a non pain-relief setting and make sure you don't dose too much. Taking too much will make you feel high but also cause the drug to have less effect. The same goes for dosing too close together. Take some time after the last time you had it to try it again, and maybe it will work. Be safe, as always.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Since you are getting pain relieving effects from the pills opiates obviously affect you. Everyone is different and everyone metabolizes drugs at a different rate. Me, for example, I was taking 30-40mg oxy at first. You're probably just not taking enough.

This is the quote that has everyone up in arms? "You're probably not taking enough to experience full effects, here is my personal experience." Am I missing something? Why is everyon so pissed about this comment? I don't give a shit whether Shadowstryker is a paranoid schizophrenic who thinks he is a piece of bisected, buttered toast, you guys have no right to bash him in such a way.

Tacodude, gmlifer you really should stop and think about what you're saying. You're out of line. Nobody provoked you into saying these potentially hurtful things. If you're pissed off about something, work it out in a constructive way please. Don't bring you're hurt feelings or discontent to Bluelight. Either be a productive member of the forum or piss off. Stop trying to turn Bluelight into the new and improved D.A.R.E program, or Nancy Reagan presents "Bluelight".

We all are aware of the dangers and misery that coincide with chronic Opioid use. You are not some Prophet sent by God with a message for the people.

 

[gmlifer]

It's funny how both of you missed the part that said "we are not here to get you as high as possible."

Neither one of us are out of line. Shadow is a cool dude that likes to push the limits of his drug use and in doing so thinks everyone posting on bluelight can and should do the same. If we all just encourage people to use more and more without letting people know the dangers of addiction and just how dangerous what they are taking can be then where is the HARM REDUCTION value in that?

If anything the two of you are out of line in that aspect. Somehow shadow thinks because he's been in to hard drugs for all of a few months that it's no big deal yet he has already been forced in to rehab. When you see someone come in here that is naive to opiates you have an opportunity to save someone the heart ache that addiction brings and neither one of you seem to see how important that can be. The shrine here is full of people that took advice like yours when they were first starting out.

 

[gmlifer]

I don't understand how my advice is careless. As the other poster said, OP obviously has a high natural tolerance and its logical to say that he should try a higher dose. If a patient goes to a pain doctor saying his medication isn't doing anything for him what does the doctor do? He raises the dosage. As for the other thread, my post also was not careless. I told the OP in that thread that it is hard to OD smoking heroin yet very possible and to watch out. Where is the disrespect? Or, I'm sorry, just

because I almost died I'm no longer allowed to advise people and answer their questions? I'm sorry that you don't like the truth, but the truth hurts sometimes. I refuse to make a post in every single thread saying the OP needs to stop opiates immediately. That's not what they're asking. If there's a thread titled "should i stop my opiate use" then feel free to post that there, but this is not the thread for that.

Now you're just exaggerating what we are saying. Nobody is saying don't take the medication but we are also not going to tell them to take 6 or 7 pills at a time. Your basically telling them that it's perfectly safe to take upwards of 2 grams of acetaminophen at one time. You're also saying "just take more" but not mentioning anything about respiratory depression or signs of overdose. Very careless in your advice.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Jesus Christ man you're a broken record. Are we getting them "as high as possible" or are we advising them of the rational next step up in dosage? I get it, drugs are dangerous and nobody should use them, right? This is solid advice, this I cannot deny. Unfortunately we're on Bluelight and these people are using drugs.

You're information is sound. I'm not calling you wrong, but we need to accept the fact that people are going to use drugs. They are using drugs. It is too late to convince them not to.

Shall we try to advise them how to move forward in relative safety, or shall we greet them all with a lecture?

And by the way, you're out of line for telling a fellow BL'er that he has "mental problems", not for spreading your message of abstinence.

The FDA set the safe 24-hour dose limit of acetaminophen at 4,000 mg per adult, but some doctors say that it should be capped at 3,250 per day.

So, case in point, chronic use of high-dose Acetaminophen is obviously discouraged due to the potential for liver damage, but in more acute scenarious, the above-posted amounts are within reason. Following my deviated septim surgery, I was prescribed 2,400mg of Acetaminphen per day on top of my Opioids. The real danger comes into play when people use APAP combination products chronically. I could've taken this dose for up to four weeks according to my doctor. My PCP agreed and said the same is true for most other NSAID's. If someone takes 2 grams of APAP daily for years, then there is definitely the potential for negative effects on the liver, but that's not what we're discussing here.

So, I'm sorry gmlifer, I don't want to cause you further aggravation or disappointment, but it is indeed safe to take 2,000mg or 2g of Acetaminophen at once.However, I will inform the FDA and the medical community at large of your dissenting opinion. This information kind of proves that your opinions are just that; opinions. Semi-factual, but not backed up by any legitimate source. You spreading misinformation could cause people to not take their prescribed pain medication due to an imaginary danger and thus, will impact their quality of life by raising their pain level unnecessarily.

References

http://www.health.harvard.edu/pain/acetaminophen-safety-be-cautious-but-not-afraid - Harvard Medical School

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm310469.htm - United States Food and Drug Administration Official Website

 

[shadowstryker]

Now you're just exaggerating what we are saying. Nobody is saying don't take the medication but we are also not going to tell them to take 6 or 7 pills at a time. Your basically telling them that it's perfectly safe to take upwards of 2 grams of acetaminophen at one time. You're also saying "just take more" but not mentioning anything about respiratory depression or signs of overdose. Very careless in your advice.

I gave an explanation of why he isn't feeling high, an example of someone who experienced the same thing, and how to fix it. If you want to add in that he should do. A CWE then inform him about it rather than resorting to insulting me.

Jesus Christ man you're a broken record. Are we getting them "as high as possible" or are we advising them of the rational next step up in dosage?

 

[gmlifer]

Keif' your information on Tylenol is based on per day not all at one time. I'm not sure how you associated the two. 2 grams of Tylenol at one time is not safe and if take 2 grams at a time over a period of time depending on your own personal health you could have major problems.

I didn't find this board because I didn't take drugs guys. I've done plenty over two decades and I've done more than enough research on them for my own personal safety to know what your recommending may be fine for some people but could also be dangerous for others. Why push the point. Why steer someone in a direction that could potentially cause harm?

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Guys, you should just stop this discussion, it's leading nowhere!

What the OP needs to know:
1. You could do a CWE (cold water extraction ) so you don't have to take the nasty acetaminophen, info can be found here http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/548643-Cold-Water-Extraction-Mega-Thread-amp-FAQ-v2-0
2. If your pain is reduced, the opioid is working. People act different and maybe oxycodone just isn't euphoric for you.
3. You could take more, but that comes with the risk of respiratory depression and thus death if you take too much, so slowly titrate yourself up by increasing in 5mg (better 2.5mg,if possible) steps . Something around 30-40mg instant release could be to much for an opioid naive person, so have someone around just in case.
4. Opioid addiction is no joke, so think twice before going down this road

 

[tacodude]

Look I'll just clear up my comment as this is getting to be too much arguing. The only reason I comment on shadows situation is he needs professional help for one and not too be enabled as he is here. That does not mean answer his questions based on Jan reduction leaving him clueless on managing risks associated with usage. It means constantly reminding someone who goes around spouting usage recommendations based upon his own careless "get high even if it kills me," attitude. Someone in his position needs to get help, which irks me when he acknowledged it and promised to find help only to continue trying to get high no matter the damage it does to his life including those around him who love him enough to not let him commit suicide and forced him into a stabalized situation, which he won't accept and continues on dreaming of slamming dope without a care if it kills him. He needs help and that's that

 

[shadowstryker]

Look I'll just clear up my comment as this is getting to be too much arguing. The only reason I comment on shadows situation is he needs professional help for one and not too be enabled as he is here. That does not mean answer his questions based on Jan reduction leaving him clueless on managing risks associated with usage. It means constantly reminding someone who goes around spouting usage recommendations based upon his own careless "get high even if it kills me," attitude. Someone in his position needs to get help, which irks me when he acknowledged it and promised to find help only to continue trying to get high no matter the damage it does to his life including those around him who love him enough to not let him commit suicide and forced him into a stabalized situation, which he won't accept and continues on dreaming of slamming dope without a care if it kills him. He needs help and that's that

Feel free to pm me as this thread isn't the place to discuss this, but I will say that I did try to get help as i promised. I did see a therapist and it didn't help me. Rehab didn't help me. Outpatient program isn't helping and I've even attended AA meetings of my own free will without luck. I tried, it didn't work. Not much more to say.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Keif' your information on Tylenol is based on per day not all at one time. I'm not sure how you associated the two. 2 grams of Tylenol at one time is not safe and if take 2 grams at a time over a period of time depending on your own personal health you could have major problems.

I didn't find this board because I didn't take drugs guys. I've done plenty over two decades and I've done more than enough research on them for my own personal safety to know what your recommending may be fine for some people but could also be dangerous for others. Why push the point. Why steer someone in a direction that could potentially cause harm?

~4g maximum per day would equal ~2g at once, twice or maybe split into 3 doses daily? So what, slightly less than 2g is safe?

 

[Erikmen]

Opioids can be pretty fun. Not if you're addicted to them, though

Exactly.

 

[gmlifer]

~4g maximum per day would equal ~2g at once, twice or maybe split into 3 doses daily? So what, slightly less than 2g is safe?

There are extreme cases both ways. There have been reports of liver toxicity at 1,200mg a day all the way to 15g a day. I'm sure a healthy liver in a healthy person could take 2g at a time for a pretty good while but if there are any underlying issues there could be problems at the 2g dose.

 

[tacodude]

Feel free to pm me as this thread isn't the place to discuss this, but I will say that I did try to get help as i promised. I did see a therapist and it didn't help me. Rehab didn't help me. Outpatient program isn't helping and I've even attended AA meetings of my own free will without luck. I tried, it didn't work. Not much more to say.

You need to give them more than a month..... Results won't happen especially if you work against them because you still want to use whatever you want and get high even against recommendation. I would PM you, but what's the point when you'll just tell me you will never change because you still want to use and get "high." I want you to get help bro, but it won't happen the way your acting s