Opiate and opioid withdrawal: Coping strategies and medication

[mydrugbuddy]

I dont want to speak to soon, but i think i may possibly have done it, in the most unconventional and ill advised way, but i havent had any bupe for 2 days. I took 4mg a couple of days ago simply because it was there and once the thought "take it" got into my head, the urge was irresistible. However, before that 4mg splurge i had been on 0.1 mg for a few weeks. Maybe the fading remnants of that 4mg was all that i needed to get off it, and Id done all the hard work by getting down to 0.1, and there was nothing left to do.

I was still high yesterday I had so much energy and motivation, Id forgotten what that was like. got nearly all the muddles in my living room sorted out. They were too much to tackle before. Opened a load of letters id been ignoring, one is a 2 week old final reminder from EON. I adapted my CV and wrote a tailored letter for a job in a store in town, and cycled in to hand it to them, havent even heard back from that FFS. Started completing an online application form. Contacted my old group leader on facebook for a reference and hes ignoring me. Oops, didnt think he be a cunt like that. Still, i must admit, i wouldnt have recommended me by the end, but the previous 12 years hadnt been bad ! HR will give me a reference. One of my senior colleagues will to (i havent asked him yet lol, i hope he will) and one of my friends has a fuckin grand sounding job title and ive known him since i was 14 or something.

Anyway i couldnt get out of bed till 2pm today, I dont know if im out of the woods or not with bupe yet. Time will tell. I suspect ive cracked it in a typically random, bizzare, not the way you're supposed to do it, type of way.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Still had no more bupe, im feeling better, not worse, somehow the low dose bupe must have been draining me of energy and motivation. Its been almost 3 days since I last had any, so it must be allmost all out of my system by now. By tomorrow it must surely all have gone, and I''l know if im truly out of the woods or not.

Assuming all will be ok, then that only leaves modafinil, etizolam & sleeping pills to sort out. 8( If i carry on feeling OK without bupe I'll start by cutting out coffee, thats a nice easy place to start, and it may reduce my cravings for etiz. Tring to work out where to start on my etiz reduction.

 

[Swarm]

The way I cut down my etiz was to rotate with pyrazolam. I would take etiz one day, then pyraz the next and so on. I went from 15 etiz a day down to 5 in a couple of months. Since pyrazolam are sold in 0.5 mg doses despite already having lower potency than etiz, don't feel too strange about wolfing down about 20 pyraz a day in the early stages.

Alternatively to pyrazolam, diclazepam is another good option. I got my first batch through the other day though and the nausea is proving a bit of a stumbling block so far.

Nice one getting off the bupe.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Cheers. I took loads of etiz and cannabinoids yesterday as the bupe wds were getting me down, it's amazing how much they help. I really should only have a couple more days of that at the most. Im sleeping very long hours and cant wake up in the mornings so am gonna trim some more off my bed time dose first, then i'll see what i can do about the early evening, mid evening, and late evening doses. 8(

 

[amnesiaseizure]

How bad were those 8-10 days ?

I'm going for the long drawn out slight discomfort/no energy long term taper. Ive allmost completed it now, the last few steps have definately been the hardest. Will be down to 0.05 on Tuesday, and i plan to jump off that as soon as i feel ok on it.

Kicking smack is a piece of piss.iv done it at at least 10 times now lol.just mop up the shit,tidy up the puke and piss and pray to god for an end

That ain't "kicking smack", that's stopping and starting. You sound like a smartarse with that type of comment.

 

[ashe]

Weed bro,some fresh Natural Sativa will get you bouncing back.

 

[monstanoodle]

the short, sharp, shock method. Is it true it gets harder every time you do that ? Thats what Keith Richard's said in his autobiography.

It most certainly gets harder every time! I've withdrawn from H dozens of times years ago, methadone, buprenorphine, scores of other opioids.....haven't touched such in a couple of years, but recently kicking a two year 50g a day Kratom habit felt like the hardest of all! And that's fucking Kratom for christs sake! I'd hate to see what a heavy duty IV H habit would feel like now....ugh.

This is only a guess, but it's possible that it's harder every time you try to stop using after the 1st / 2nd / 3rd time because your µ-receptors become more and more down-regulated each time and take longer to reduce their down-regulation aka. "re-regulate"?
Tis a complete guesstimate from a (probably not very) self-educated and self-experimented soul, so please feel free to completely ignore me! :D

Withdrawal Help Stuffs
Loperamide will definitely help with the physical side-effects of withdrawal - Especially the shits :D

Vitamins in general (I have heard from other members and - now thanks to wantoffopies [cheers for that link mate ] read about large doses of Vit-C helping) are going to help - especially because eating is going to be hard due to nausea - and if you can keep small amounts of liquids down then Berocca are great for that.
If you do get Multi-Vit tablets, then make sure that you get the ones with Iron added to the mix, or Iron supplements instead. It can help with the fatigue and weak feeling, and with RLS to some extent.

But not as much as Magnesium!!!
Tonnes of people find Magnesium a great help for RLS and fuuuuuck we all know how mad that drives us!!!

Benzos ofcourse provide massive relief for multiple symptoms, but also ofcourse come with their obvious drawbacks (booooo!)
Diazepam seems one of the best when it comes to helping out the most, but as others have said Etizolam seems to be great for others. It's never done much at all for me unfortunately
If you just want to knock yourself out for a good period then a large dose of Temazepam (40mg + depending on your tolerance) will do the trick nicely %)
I've not had the pleasure of trying Clonazepam but it sounds like it could be a very good all-rounder too. Though I read this which I don't particularly understand:
**NSFW'd for space-saving**

NSFW:

Abstract

Chronic administration of the benzodiazepine, clonazepam, increased the number of [3H]-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT1) binding sites in the frontal cortex of the rat. The increase reflected a change in the maximum density of binding sites (Bmax) with no change in ligand affinity (Kd). Increased binding occurred after continued exposure (10 days) to large (5.0 mg/kg) doses of clonazepam. The changes in [3H]5-HT binding were regional in that they occurred in membranes from the frontal cortex but not the brainstem. The effects were also at least partially selective for 5-HT receptors since the binding of the β-adrenergic radioligand, [3H]dihydroalprenolol, was not affected by clonazepam. A second benzodiazepine, diazepam, did not affect the binding of [3H]5-HT at doses of 30 mg/kg per day. The latter data suggest that the effects of benzodiazepines on serotonin 5-HT1 receptors are unique to clonazepam.

Linky Sourcey + A discussion thread about it here

... Make of that what you will...

Another thing that can't hurt would be to add Valerian & Hops tablets into the mix to potentiate GABAa effects, add more GABA into your system and, apparently, one of the constituted chemicals of Valerian is a "inverse agonist for Adenosine A1 receptor sites" which, again, can't hurt
It'd be grand to be able to get your hands on a chemical in Hops called Dimethylvinyl Carbinol / 2-methyl-2-butanol (2M2B) as it apparently "produces euphoria, sedative, hypnotic, and anticonvulsant effects similar to ethanol through ingestion or inhalation.[9] It is active in doses of 2,000-4,000 mg, making it 20 times more potent than ethanol.[10][11] Its hypnotic potency is between chloral hydrate and paraldehyde[12] and between benzodiazepines and ethanol." (nomnomnommynom ).

Ginger is a fantastic Antiemetic which you could (if you can) ingest as a Tea or you could get Powdered Ginger and make little bombs in rizlas, which I use for nausea when I take shrooms. Or you could go down the Promethazine route if it'd be easier or if it's more effective for you.

Welp, I think that'll do for now! Happy quitting everyone! ~{^.^}~

 

[matt<3ketamine]

Met with my case worker today about my referral for subutex and it went quite well, hoping to get out of this shit before I get really bad for it, it's getting back into being a functioning member of society again is gonna be my main problem and she also said this too, anyone any advice regarding this?
Been given lots of material to look at with switch schemes to get people with our types of problems back to being employed and having a routine, I find it quite interesting but I'm aiming to be away from the uk late next year so won't need a solid job, just a rehabilitation back into life outside of my own little world
So thankful I have family and close friends supporting me, couldn't be doing it without them, I know so many don't have this support when they really need it most and wish this type of support was more common than most peoples attitude towards these substances especially, anyway best of luck everyone else, I'll hopefully report back with some good news

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Interesting theory about the opiate receptors Monsta. Presumably only extended periods of daily use would cause that to happen, and say one day of using some opi or other every month or so wouldnt do that ?

Im over the worst of the physically ill sysmptoms. Just feel lethargic and flat one week after quitting (there was a relapse 2 days ago) but stayed off it after that. I think i was unrealistically expecting to feel a huge sense of pride and achievment, but that didnt happen. Working on getting my etiz and sleeping pill consumptiuon down now, as i increased them a lot during the bupe w/ds, with the idea of sleeping through as much of it as possible. Probably not a recommended idea, as i may have some trouble getting these lowered. One step at a time though eh.

Good luck Matt. You're lucky you have friends and famuly that support you during this. I never told mine, for several reasons, they wouldnt understand, they would panic and worry, they would make things worse !! Ive had proffessional help, and i have finally achieved what has been my primary goal for most of this year - to get off fucking opiates. Its really weird that i feel fuck all, considering that is the case.

 

[blue1995]

I am in PAWS from coming of suboxone 2 1/2 months ago, and sometimes throw myself back into acute w/ds by taking subutex or pain pills when things start to get hairy. Didn't read all the posts here on this thread as I don't have time/am too fucking lazy so I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned the benefits of gabapentin to people suffering from opiate w/d?

Gabapentin, brand name Neurontin, is an anti-seizure drug and that is sometimes used to help patients with depression and other malaise. It is quite helpful for opiate w/d, as well. I learned that on this site somewhere, got a couple from a friend when I was pretty bad into the w/d symptoms, and it helped immensely. I can't stress enough what a useful tool gabapentin has been in my anti-withdrawl arsenal.

Went to the dr. and told him openly about my struggle, and he was quick to prescribe gabapentin, as requested, at 300mg 3X daily. I just filled the script two days ago and have avoided most all, and the worst, symptoms since filling it. I am taking more than prescribed, however, I find 600mg 3X a day more helpful and have even popped a few inbetween. I don't think the dr. will have a problem increasing the dose next time, as this drug is non-narcotic and is commonly prescribed at the larger doses I'm taking now. Anyway, I've still had watery eyes at times but that's been the worst of it. Sleeping has not been a problem - gabapentin has somewhat of a sedative effect and I've had no problem keeping my regular schedule, although I was so snug I slept through my alarm for a while this morning.

Thanks for loads of other useful info. I'm going to try magnesium and some of the herbs recommended here next time I get to the drug store. I'm on a mission to never go through the horror of w//d again, and so far it's working out, b/c of things I've learned here on bluelight. I've used Kratom and lomotil as well, which are also helpful, and both have a superthread on this site. The search engine will lead to more info about using gabapentin for opiate w/d, if interested.

 

[amanitadine]

Exactly correct on the down regulation Monsta....know it all too well :/ I have had periods of over a year completely opioid free and then used for 3 days and had acute withdrawals again. Took much longer than that in the early days! The brain remembers....fucker. I sure don't!

Yes Blue, Gabapentin is a godsend. It can almost eliminate withdrawals and give a manic yet sedated high...but only for a day or two for me. Gotta space your sessions! I'll use 3000 mg by staggered dosing and get a wonderful day in the midst of withdrawal but then wait at least 2-3 days, preferably longer, to repeat such. But even in smaller doses daily it helps a great deal. Fucking tolerance to it builds fast! Maybe I've just been on it too long....

Good luck to y'all. It sucks. It took me 15 years of mucking about to finally get a grip....and that grip is still tenuous!

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Blue1995, i believe pegabalin has a simillar dependency profile to benzos, it might not be quite so bad, but just something to watch out for if you didnt already know and dont want to pick up another dependency. Yeah and amanitadine you are so right about pregabalin tolerance, it seems to double if you take it on consecutive days, but it does offer relief.

Ive found etizolam and cannabinoids help a lot too.

Still in PAWS about 10 weeks after finishing ? Fuckin hell thats tough, and there's me whinging about holding out for just one week.

I managed 5 or 6 days before the thought of taking the little bit of poppy powder i had left popped into my head. Once it did, there was no resistance. Anyway that seems to be wearing off completelty by today, but i am definately not right back at square one, but it has set me back slightly. I'm gradually/haphazardly getting there, one way or another. Ive found that the occasional relapse/extra doses gave me a bit of mental respite, when the going got too tough, i can only stand it for so long, and these relapses gave me the energy to get things done that needed doing. Its almost certainly not a recommened method, but its helped me to muddle through.

Basically having any surplus opiates other than what i needed for my taper was too much to resist. And I had a few relapses during my taper, but now I've only got a few 0.2 mg pills left, and there's no point in taking little bits of them at this stage, it just stretches out the misery, and i am now in the mood to ride the rest of this shit out, and stop this habit dead for at least a few weeks.

Its taken the best part of a year to have almost have done it. I have done it really, i just need to hang in a few more days as the worst of the physical wds is definatelty over, at one point i barely had the energy to move.

My etizolam consumption quadrupled during my bupe taper, so i have a lot of work to bring that back down, plus i am also taking 4 strong sleeping pills. Ive reduced my nightime etiz dose by 4mg in 4 days, gonna see how much more i can keep trimming off that. I was obviously taking too much, the main reason was that the days were so long and slow and i just wanted to sleep through as much of the wds as much as possible.

The amount of sedatives ive been taking though certainly isnt healthy, and so far the etiz reductions have been easy. Im currently on 20 mg (seperate doses, not all at once). I know this is far more than i need and even what my body/gabba down regulation has adjusted to, so the etiz taper is gonna continue rapidly downwards until i hit the point where i cannot get to sleep, I'll then hold it there until i adjust. And then reduce the sedatives bit by bit too.

In one way its a luxurious environment to quit in, as in i dont have a job atm, ive finsished my college course, and dont even have to sign on any more, as my fund has run out. I have no more distractions and things that just add to clutter and muddles and complications. In one way having that part time college course to attend during my taper, and do the work for was very beneficial, as it gave me an outside focus, and turned out to be very helpfull to meet a load of non-judgemental bright young things, and not one cunt amongst them. That was immensly helpfull.

Some readers will probably guess that im on stims due to the length of this post. Indeed i am, had an ethyphenidate bomb earlier. Gonna have to beware this doesnt become too regular and should probably try to avoid it for as long as possible.

 

[dopemaster]

I got a few things I could add from my own experiences. If you are shitting fluid than you piss its good to drink a protein supplement. I get the type you just add to water and drink. Its chocolate flavored. Also helps you get something on your stomach. I personally have trouble eating.

My doctor game me promethazine for stomach issues and it also help with the runny nose. Its a strong antihistamine, but it works great for stomach problems.

Another drug he gave me was methocarbamol which helped with the leg cramps. Robaxin is another name for it. He gave me clonodine too, but that was already mentioned. Clonodine sure does help.

Weed helps me as well.

I personally use a small amount of suboxone even if to just make it so I can eat, rehydrate, and give my asshole a break. I used one strip in the middle of what was a CT taper off a ridiculous amount of morphine. I find sub tapers are best run short as possible or not even as a taper, but just as a way to make thing bearable enough to eat and maybe get a couple hours of sleep.

I cannot sleep in withdrawal. Neurontin helps me a bit with that. It sure zones me the fuck out and that seems to help as well. Also Ambien does pretty much the same thing for me.

Benzos also tend to help.

I am not saying replace your habit with a new one or suggesting you ingest these substances, even more so if you are foreign to them. I am just relating my experiences and take from it what you will.

 

[blue1995]

DOPEM - Why oh why are you putting up with a shitty situation when there is loperamide to be had OTC? As you probably know it is an opiate, too, only somehow it only affects in the gut, and it will bind you up good until you're through the worst. I still shit normally even at very high doses, which I've found are also good for other w/d symptoms. Sweet Jesus! Your poor flaming rectum

 

[dopemaster]

I don't care for lope. I only had those issues with heroin and morphine. But anyways the protein supplement stopped the shits.

I don't like to maintain on something tbph.

I try to make as clean of a break from opies as possible if I have to kick.

 

[blue1995]

Understandable.

 

[monstanoodle]

I am in PAWS from coming of suboxone 2 1/2 months ago, and sometimes throw myself back into acute w/ds by taking subutex or pain pills when things start to get hairy. Didn't read all the posts here on this thread as I don't have time/am too fucking lazy so I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned the benefits of gabapentin to people suffering from opiate w/d?

Gabapentin, brand name Neurontin, is an anti-seizure drug and that is sometimes used to help patients with depression and other malaise. It is quite helpful for opiate w/d, as well. I learned that on this site somewhere, got a couple from a friend when I was pretty bad into the w/d symptoms, and it helped immensely. I can't stress enough what a useful tool gabapentin has been in my anti-withdrawl arsenal.

Went to the dr. and told him openly about my struggle, and he was quick to prescribe gabapentin, as requested, at 300mg 3X daily. I just filled the script two days ago and have avoided most all, and the worst, symptoms since filling it. I am taking more than prescribed, however, I find 600mg 3X a day more helpful and have even popped a few inbetween. I don't think the dr. will have a problem increasing the dose next time, as this drug is non-narcotic and is commonly prescribed at the larger doses I'm taking now. Anyway, I've still had watery eyes at times but that's been the worst of it. Sleeping has not been a problem - gabapentin has somewhat of a sedative effect and I've had no problem keeping my regular schedule, although I was so snug I slept through my alarm for a while this morning.

Thanks for loads of other useful info. I'm going to try magnesium and some of the herbs recommended here next time I get to the drug store. I'm on a mission to never go through the horror of w//d again, and so far it's working out, b/c of things I've learned here on bluelight. I've used Kratom and lomotil as well, which are also helpful, and both have a superthread on this site. The search engine will lead to more info about using gabapentin for opiate w/d, if interested.

I'm really glad that Gabapentin has helped you lots, and it makes me feel less worried about asking for a higher dose
I mean you get reports of people taking over 1g in a dose and feeling fine.
So yes, I'll make an appt. with my GP and see what she says.

I hope that Magnesium helps lots (it's said to do wonders without question) and that throwing Valerian and Hops into the mix does something positive

Exactly correct on the down regulation Monsta....know it all too well :/ I have had periods of over a year completely opioid free and then used for 3 days and had acute withdrawals again. Took much longer than that in the early days! The brain remembers....fucker. I sure don't!

Yes Blue, Gabapentin is a godsend. It can almost eliminate withdrawals and give a manic yet sedated high...but only for a day or two for me. Gotta space your sessions! I'll use 3000 mg by staggered dosing and get a wonderful day in the midst of withdrawal but then wait at least 2-3 days, preferably longer, to repeat such. But even in smaller doses daily it helps a great deal. Fucking tolerance to it builds fast! Maybe I've just been on it too long....

Good luck to y'all. It sucks. It took me 15 years of mucking about to finally get a grip....and that grip is still tenuous!

Ahhh good stuff - I'm very glad that my self-educated guess on the matter was correct

I'm glad that Gabapentin gives you a "high" of somewhat but I get no positive psychological aspects from it. Different strokes n all that %)
And I fully agree with the tolerance of Gabapentin and Pregabalin - Their tolerance rises and falls at such a quick rate, so I usually take a "larger" dose if my muscles are playing up or whatnot.
So it's not just you amanitadine as it seems that they both have silly tolerances and silly reductions in said tolerance.

Blue1995, i believe pegabalin has a simillar dependency profile to benzos, it might not be quite so bad, but just something to watch out for if you didnt already know and dont want to pick up another dependency. Yeah and amanitadine you are so right about pregabalin tolerance, it seems to double if you take it on consecutive days, but it does offer relief.

Yes there's likely GABA-related withdrawals from Pregabalin and Gabapentin if taken for too long.
The staggered dosing sounds like a good idea, I may take that up amanitadine It sounds like a grand idea!

Good look all! ~~

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Anyone know if taking stims somehow interferes with the 'healing process' once you've stopped taking opis ? I can see that obviously if you cannot eat or sleep at night that thats obviously gonna set your bodys natural recovery back, but how about just a first thing booster of a mildish stim like ethyl, it definately boosts my eneregy and mood and overrides these fucking chills. For these reasons it is hard to resist, but if it is gonna delay my opi recovery then im gonna have to.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I have absolutely no idea what is going on with my bupe w/ds. Yesterday i was all but ready to give up giving up, and try again towards the end of winter, as i thought theres no way im going to be able to do this during the winter, with both the physical and psychological sides to it.

Ive been off daily use for a few weeks now, but have been having just one 'break/relapse/treat' every week or so when the listlessness gets too much to bear all the fucking time. Im sure thats not a recommended way and is probably dragging my recovery out. But i had a relapse 2 days ago, yesterday i felt rough for the first few hours, but today, i have no idea why but i feel absolutely fine.

 

[Sammy G]

It can come and go, MDB. Especially if you're continuing to use subs (very bad idea) and throwing other drug use into the mix.

That said, you've done exceptionally well to make it this far. Have you considered buying some codeine / DHC for those times when you really feel like giving in? Buprenorphine really isn't the best thing for you right now.