Opiate and opioid withdrawal: Coping strategies and medication

[Fresco]

think there is something in this vitamin c theory

Oh no it works, trust me!! The trick is to get the amount of Vit. C right. For heavy opiate use it can be as high 2 to 4 grams every hour. For mild codeine and kratom use it was only about 1 gram every 2 hrs or so for me.

And once again, you have to buy the calcium ascorbate form. NOT the ascorbic acid form, that one gives you diarrhea.

I've also noticed its best to take Vit. C with just a tiny bit of food to help stomach absorption. For example a few bites of a banana and a bit of milk works wonders

 

[mydrugbuddy]

^^^^ what about vitamin c in the form of fresh fruit, like i have a few tangerines or kiwi fruit or somethiong before every meal ? Anyway ive fallen off the wagon for the moment anyway, i just dont have the mental or physical strength to do it at the moment. I keep getting ill all the time too, catching bugs of some sort or other practically every time i go out. I sound like fucking Moriisey or something "Im so sick and tired".

Apparently the relapse rate following the acute physical wds for bupe is extremely high i was reading the other night, as its such a long drawn out mentally and physically draining thing. The time of year is certainly completely against me also, as getting exercise is meant to be a key component in recovery, who the fuck wants to exercise in arctic winds, pissing freezing rain, etc.

I think i may well switch to kratom for 1-3 months to mask the bupe wds. In that time my body should have adjusted to life without bupe, the weather will be more suitable for getting exercise, and withdrawing from kratom is said to be far easier than withdrawing from bupe.

I have managed to stop smoking/stop vapeing ecigs. That is going to help Im sure. I'll be just that little bit healthier and more resilient. Once i recover from this current bug i may not do the kratom thing, i may just try again to stop bupe, with out switching to a milder opiate receptor agonist. I also need to get my appointments at my clinic co-ordinated better, the last few times ive tried stopping bupe i havent even had the energy to phone them and make an appointment to get some support and encouragement, and its been weeks between appointments at the times that i have needed them the most.

 

[Sammy G]

So you're back on subs full-time, MDB?

 

[mydrugbuddy]

hopefully only temporarily. Real life demands keep getting in the way, i was meant to have a job interview today but am too ill to attend cos of this bug, bupe makes an excellent bug remedy lol, they have rearranged the interview for monday, and then it'll soon be christmas, where it would be impossible for me to drive 150 miles/3 hours to my dads house, i wouldnt have the energy to do it, and would feel completelty miserable and anti social anyway.

I will have some time from 27th of dec - 6 jan (if i get offered this job) to try again. By then i will have been about 1 week back on bupe, i am taking 0.6 mg verey 24 or 48 hours depending how i feel, this will obviously have set my recovery back, just how far back i will have to wait and see. I feel like ive let you down, which i dont quite understnd why i feel like that, probably because youve been trying to support and encourage me, this is looking like its gonna be the most mentally and physically challenging thing ive ever done in my life.

 

[Sammy G]

Sorry you feel as if you've let me down! Though I can understand how you might feel like that.

It really will be a difficult challenge, but you've done most of it already. I hope you realise that there's no such thing as a painless detox by now.

I take it you've bought more subs then?

 

[mydrugbuddy]

yeah, not a huge amount, but enough to get myself re-addicted if i was daft enough. Its so strange, after doing all the hard work, getting down to 0, getting over the acute physically ill stage, it was just the endless seeming nature of the recovery, that made me feel like i just wanted to start the whole cycle all over again. I believe this is quite common. I really dont want to do that though.

I know a painless detox doent exist but everything ive read suggests that kratom w/ds are much milder. So my thinking is to maybe use kratom to get over the worst of the bupe recovery, whether it takes 2 weeks, 2 months, or god knows how long. Kratom w/ds shouldnt be as severe or as drawn out. I didnt realise that the relapse rate for bupe due entirely to the length of the PAWS syndrome is extremely high. This makes it an extremely unfit for purpose drug. Had i got on a managed taper and got it over and done with quickly in 4 weeks or something, it would have been physiclly harder initially, but the PAWS thing at the end wouldnt have been so long. Its a bit late to find that out now though really.

 

[Sammy G]

Yeah, it's a bit late now.

It sucks to be there, and there were times I'd gladly have lain down on the train tracks rather than suffer any more (I even had my spot and time chosen), but it really does come to an end. You keep referring to PAWS, but you weren't even out of acute withdrawal really. If there is any PAWS with buprenorphine (at least at your level of use), it's not much longer than a few weeks at most. And during those few weeks you're so thankful for the physical symptoms having abated that PAWS is the last thing on your mind.

It's up to you whether to pursue this kratom idea, but do you really think it's wise to do so, seeing that you only got carried away with subs because of the 'mild' withdrawals' you'd read about?

Would it not just be better to bite the bullet with buprenorphine rather than get yourself hooked on yet another substance?

Like I say, your choice.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

i hadnt thought of that, because the cold sweats, unsettled stomach, general malaise stopped after about a week i assumed i was over the acute physical bit. As my energy levels were so low after that i assumed it was PAWS not still the acute physical stage. Somehow that makes it feel more achievable, because the acute physical stage only lasts a finite amount of time, PAWS can last weeks, months, or years. You're right that in the 'grand scheme of things' my bupe habit was relatively short lived and low dosed. I suddenly feel slightly more optimistic and positive, thank you. Im still not expecting it to be a walk in the park but will give it another shot.

 

[CMAZ68]

I'm new too, trying to find my way here. Has anyone used fentlyn patch or methadone pills to assit with oxycodone short release 60 mg per day for wd? Which one, how did it help? Not sure how much or how it works, any advice is appreciated. I'm unable to start my own question so I have to bump into comments so I can get help. I am talking short term use 4-5 days max. I know the dangers of both but what helped you the most. Tried ct and not happening, please understand. The doc uses tramaodol to wean, not sure if that would help either. Any good advise. I'm trying to avoid wd for the most part.

 

[amanitadine]

MDB- the acute phase of bupe WD's lasts 2 weeks to a month or so, depending on you, your tenure, dose, etc. I was on it for a long time and tapered down to .5 mg and then went right to Kratom, intending to use it for a month or two to get over the worst of the sub WD's. Over two years later I had to kick the Kratom....and it wasn't pretty. For such a seemingly benign plant it can be strangely addictive and the withdrawals were much worse than I anticipated. Like a mix of opioid withdrawals and anti depressant withdrawals....and it the AD part took well over a month to begin sorting itself out. Granted, I was taking 40-50g a day for two years, but Kratom is no joke. I would have rather kicked heroin....at least that is straightforward. All the alkaloids in Kratom and their mixed action make it a bitch. Just tread cautiously. I'd stick with the low dose bupe, and just start exercising as soon as you can. I know, easier said than done, but it helps more than anything.

The etizolam isn't helping with motivation/energy either. I was up to 60 mg a day and tapered down to 6 and got stuck, short half life and all...making it a nightmare. Had to visit a doc and explain what it was, and switch to diazepam, and am now 6 or 7 months into an Ashton taper. I did have a long history with benzos too.....terrible drugs!

I'm glad the Vit C works for you Fresco but I don't see it. The body can only absorb 200 mg or so per hour.....so these mega doses are getting pissed out. And the study cited looked rather flawed....you give junkies a big pile of white powder several times a day and the power of suggestion will work its magic. I'd like to see a better control, and actual measurements rather than a subjective scale of "how are you feeling?". It just seems like quackery....coming from a quack himself

 

[Fresco]

^^^^ what about vitamin c in the form of fresh fruit, like i have a few tangerines or kiwi fruit or somethiong before every meal ?

One orange only contains about 70mg of Vitamin C. You'd have to consume 14 to 28 oranges an hour. Thats crazy, dont do that because the acidity of that many oranges will probably burn a hole in your stomach.

Much easier to just buy pills, and pills work much better as well. Also make sure you have lots of food in the house, your appetite will go through the roof first 3 days

 

[mydrugbuddy]

amanaitidine at last ive found someone who was on a bigger dose of etiz than me, i thought i was the only one to have got to 30 or 35mg per day, once your tolerance starts blowing out there's no stopping it is there, and you just need ever increasingly crazy doses. I did get down to 6 or 7 mg a few months ago, but with bupe reductions i let my etiz get out of control again. It seems at first when you are on these mega doses you can reduce them really quickly without any noticeable effect. Ive reduced from 24mg to 17 mg in about a week. Gonna knock another mg off tonight. I think when i get down to 10mg or so, or just depending on how i feel I'll start taking the reductions much more gradually. I know that fucking up and rushing a benzo taper can have completely devastating effects.

Thanks for the warning about Kratom. I had no idea it did all that. I thought it just mildly tickled a few opi receptors, and was thinking of dosing in the region of 1 or 2 teaspoons per day, but ive seen it happen with many different substances the way a small, apparently harmless habit can just balloon totally out of control.

Fresco ive kind of lost all interest in food over the last few months/ year or so. I think that giving up smoking / vapeing will help in that regard, it allways has done when ive given up in the past. Its absolute bullshit these people that tell you its easier to give up opiates than it is to give up cigarettes/nicotine. The physical nicotine addiction is broken within 2 days, and within those first 2 days the cravings are only fleeting. Compare that with the weeks of misery of coming off bupe. I dont know about the mega doses of vitamin c thing, i just think a general improvement in my diet, continuing to reduce etizolam, staying off the nicotine will all help me feel better.

I suppose if i was really commited to the exercise thing i could go to a gym and start using one of those treadmills or rowing machines or something. The whole concept has allways seemed fucking ridiculous to me, if you want to go for a walk or a run, it would make sense to do it outdoors, preferably somehwere pleasant. But with at least another 2 months of shit weather the idea of a gym suddenly makes sense. Allthough i would normally agree with Billy Connolly who says "there is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes for the weather" i dont feel anywhere near as hardy whilst going through bupe w/ds and the thought of outdoors exercise in bitterly cold winds or rain is a complete non starter. I think building up enough stamina for at least 1 hour of brisk walking or cycling every day would be far better than vegetating on the couch all day.

 

[Sammy G]

I'm new too, trying to find my way here. Has anyone used fentlyn patch or methadone pills to assit with oxycodone short release 60 mg per day for wd? Which one, how did it help? Not sure how much or how it works, any advice is appreciated. I'm unable to start my own question so I have to bump into comments so I can get help. I am talking short term use 4-5 days max. I know the dangers of both but what helped you the most. Tried ct and not happening, please understand. The doc uses tramaodol to wean, not sure if that would help either. Any good advise. I'm trying to avoid wd for the most part.

Methadone and fentanyl are both bad ideas IMO.

Tramadol will certainly help ease withdrawals, however it also has its own horrific withdrawal syndrome if you take it for too long.

Here's one thread which discusses using tramadol to prevent opiate withdrawals.

Best of luck!

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Basically there's no easy way out is there ?

I wish i was strong enough to do what some people do and just do straight cold turkey, spend 4 or 5 days in bed , sweating, puking, and the rest, and then gradually get your strength back.

 

[Sammy G]

No, there is no easy way out unfortunately.

On the plus side though, buprenorphine withdrawal doesn't require days in bed, though admittedly it's protracted and miserable.

I managed to work through most of my w/d. Maybe having work to focus on was a good thing, though at the time it didn't really seem that way!

 

[mydrugbuddy]

yeah having my college course to attend helped take my mind off things. Dont think i could cope with a full time job during w/ds though. I guess it depends how demanding, or how chilled out your job is.

 

[knock]

Hmm yeah I certainly wasn't recommending you get a 50g a day kratom habit and I would exercise some caution. That would be quite expensive (£8 a day or so plus yoghurt/juice if you're using them (I just had 5g kratom in Tropicana Apple and Raspberry juice, was actually not bad at all, needs a lot of stirring though)) never mind withdrawals.

The reason I am so carefree about suggesting or going along with you taking kratom is that I have had no problem sticking to around 5g a day since I started taking it, which must be over a year ago. I don't know why my dose hasn't escalated, but I've not become a poppy tea fiend either. I don't get much of a buzz off my 5g kratom nowadays though, so I suppose I'm all set up for withdrawals. And I have just double dosed today, but it's been a long fucking day it's not stopped yet...

 

[mydrugbuddy]

one of the good things about having been through a phenazepam fugue was that i ordered various substances during that period and stashed them in various places and then totally forgot i had them. Yesterday i found a fairly substantial tub of red vein borneo powder that i had no recollection of ordering or owning. There is no point taking it atm though as the bupe will just block it from having any effect anyway. I was thinking of a 1 or 2 teaspoons a day sort of dose, nothing like a 50g a day dose, as my tolerance has lowered massively. But Sam has given me pause for thought about that idea, and i may be better off just trying to quit bupe again, hopefully being a bit better prepared 2nd time round.

I remember at one point i used the water from the 2nd extraction from poppy pods as the base for my next dose, and added about 4 heaped tablespoonfulls of powder to it. Even with tolerance that dose was ridicoulously strong and i was hallucinating fluorescent floaters and things, i think if i tried such a dose these days it would probably kill me. Someone gave me a bollocking for even mentioning the dose i had taken, given how excessive it was even with a tolerance. So i repeat for the sake of HR that such a strong dose is just madness. I think i just wanted to see just how far i could take it.

 

[Fresco]

Fresco ive kind of lost all interest in food over the last few months/ year or so. I think that giving up smoking / vapeing will help in that regard, it allways has done when ive given up in the past. Its absolute bullshit these people that tell you its easier to give up opiates than it is to give up cigarettes/nicotine. The physical nicotine addiction is broken within 2 days, and within those first 2 days the cravings are only fleeting

Oh I hear you dude, I used to smoke in high school and quitting cigs was a peace of cake.

Now opiates is a whole different ballgame altogether, and I was only addicted to codeine and oxys, I never even got into heroin. I shiver at the thought of heroin withdrawal, trust me (and thats just from reading these forums and comparing them to oxy pills)

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Im not sure if one of my keyworkers is a bit confused or mixed up, but she got me a bit concerened today about the dangers of multiple quit attempts and how hard it is on your body. Christ Im not disputing how hard it is, but its not actually dangerous in the same way that benzo cessation can be is it ?

Ive currently fallen off the wagon, but am trying to keep my dose as low as possible, and want to keep the duration of this relapse as short as possible, inevitably my body and brain is hungry for more and more. I imagine whatever dose i took i would still want more. I know the higher i let my dose get and the longer i take it for im gonna be making more and more difficult for myself to reduce and stop all over again. What goes up must indeed come down.

I had previously got down to doses that were too low for any kind of high, and were just weening me off the physical dependency before i finally, all be it, briefly, stopped. Im currently craving the high all over again. This really needs at least 1mg which i did yesterday, im not dependant on that dose though but it wouldnt take long for that to happen. I seem to need at least 0.6mg to feel well and have plenty of energy, allthough i keep falling ill, my immune system must be fucked, i seem to have caught every bug thats going over the last month or so. Ive currently got some kind of flu bug again, i must say that bupe is a fucking wonderfull flu remedy. It just totally overpowers it. I keep loosing track of time, i have no idea how long ive been taking it for since the relapse, i think its been intermittent for about a week. I may try and stop again tomorrow, I'll still have the half life of todays and yesterdays dose, and within a couple of days I'll know what shape im in.

Dont know what the point of all that was or even if there was one. Having re-read it i think the point was if i stop today, i may not get myself re-addcited, allthough i will almost certainly have to pick up the withdrawal symptoms from where i left off, or more likely ive set myself back at least a week or so in terms of physical adjustment.