Bupe ok so is the naltraxone really needed in suboxone or just there to scare people

[HYDRO_CHRONIC]

So I tried to get subutex.and my doctor is a bit of a outspoken asshole.all your getting is suboxone.people want subutex so they can shoot it since there is no blocker.....

To wich I said-the bupe is the blocker.it has a higher affinity for the receptor than the naltaxone so why are you telling me this you offer two forms but refuse to write anything but suboxone.the bupe is what causes precipitated wd etc

He just stared at me like I just let the secret out and said we can talk about it next time. So is he getting kickbacks from writing nothing but suboxone.i tend to get headaches of I take the whole 16mg and he said that's internet bullshit!!!?

I'm finding a new doctor

 

[Phil.McKeer]

The naltrexone does absolutely nothing, you are right. Which also leads me to believe the whole headache thing is placebo effect, but that's a different convo altogether (if it does nothing, then it does nothing, right?).

But yeah, sucks he won't give you 'tex. I'd just stick with what I can get. You don't have to take 16mg aside from your first dose. I'm sure you can do just as well off 8mg or even 4mg if you just give it a shot (pun not intended). Maybe try 4mg x2 per day?

 

[HYDRO_CHRONIC]

I just know I get aches at the base of my skull.and other people who know nothing about any of this stuff complain about the same thing.so it has me wondering.yea sometimes I dont take much at all.vut when cravings are kicking my ass I take more.I've made 30 8mg subs last 3 months before...i want a new doc for other reasons.basically the price shouldn't go UP imo after the first visit.but this place was easy to get in.and I dont like know it all that expect me to not know anything and feed me bullshit

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Yeah I know what you mean with that attitude doctors can have where you're not supposed to know anything and they know it all. And yeah, price definitely should not increase unless they gave a fair warning beforehand. They assume you used to buy dope, enough that you needed subs, so you must be able to afford it.

Sucks man.

 

[roxi2873]

I said the same thing to a nurse at a sub clinic a while ago and she said I had no idea what I was talking about. She honestly didn't know that it was true. I think sometimes they just believe their own bullshit so they feel better about what they're doing. I ended up not going there because I tested positive for like 4 drugs and they demanded I go to a detox place before I go there. I said no because I'm not going to suffer through a week of withdrawal in a detox place with no Suboxone and then come here after I've already gone through the worst of the withdrawal. The only thing I was dependant on was heroin, everything else that showed up was from a one day binge.

 

[SKR]

Hydro He's a grade-A fuck wit. No guarantee's the next 5 Doctors wont have the same disability. Unfortunately for Dr Dumbass is that he is the one that's believed the marketing hype, the 'science', the propaganda and internet Bullshit (the 'Doctors are the greatest' websites he visits).

Cos the proof is all over this site that the Buprenorphine is dominant and the naloxone cannot compete, at best it gives some folks headaches. My sub Dr reckons out of many hundreds of clients he's only come across one patient who had allergic reactions but she had the same issues with Subutex so the Bupe is what she had issues with....but he also cannot be anywhere near certain that she wasn't doing other shit at home that caused her to have issues.

 

[Prescottdave]

So I tried to get subutex.and my doctor is a bit of a outspoken asshole.all your getting is suboxone.people want subutex so they can shoot it since there is no blocker.....

To wich I said-the bupe is the blocker.it has a higher affinity for the receptor than the naltaxone so why are you telling me this you offer two forms but refuse to write anything but suboxone.the bupe is what causes precipitated wd etc

He just stared at me like I just let the secret out and said we can talk about it next time. So is he getting kickbacks from writing nothing but suboxone.i tend to get headaches of I take the whole 16mg and he said that's internet bullshit!!!?

I'm finding a new doctor

Let your doctor know there is a rampant level of IV Suboxone film and tab use within jails and prison across the U.S. Millions of addicts are reporting the naloxone is ineffective in preventing abuse of the medication through an IV route. If he would like to know why point him toward the NAABT page on precipitated WD. You can even find a number of peer reviewed studies on the NIH that discuss this blatant fact. If you do honestly get headaches from your Sub document it, write a letter to him and possible file a compliant. Thats if you honestly get bad headaches from the naloxone and he is not willing to switch. You can always take less sub as taking lots of plain old bupe can cause headaches. Otherwise if your just trying to get subutex it makes no difference and I have come to like the films over tex. The films absorb much quicker and better. As well they can be cut down to 100 mcg strips for tapering. People in prison love the strips as they can be melted onto paper and smuggled in. Let him know that last tidbit to.

 

[Prescottdave]

It's naloxone in suboxone folks not naltrexone.

 

[Keif' Richards]

It's always been my understanding that the reason for pairing Naloxone w/ Buprenorphine was for the purpose of gaining an edge in the pharmaceutical market. I don't know if this is technically "evergreening" as they call it, but it's pretty much an effort to deceive the medical community and its patients into buying a non-generic Buprenorphine product. The stated reason as we all know is the dubious suggestion that Naloxone makes the product less abusable.

It's like Adderall. Amphetamines have been around for a little less than 150 years, yet Shire acquired a patent for the drug by making some basically erroneous changes to the make-up of the drug. It's not Dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine) and it's not 50/50 Racemic Amphetamine, it's somewhere in between. Not exactly a groundbreaking medical discovery, but it was somehow enough to win them a patent which helped them corner the market for ADHD medications for over a decade.

The pharmaceutical industry, just like the medical industry in general in the United States is dirty. It's based upon money and politics, not what is best for the patient.

I would say that the industry has done a fine job in convincing people of the need for Naloxone in Suboxone. No one at my clinic or on the street has a Blue's Clue regarding what the Naloxone in the drug does or doesn't do. Many pay triple or quadruple the price for Buprenorphine w/out Naloxone thinking it can be abused moreso than the combination product.

As far as the Doctor goes OP, I find it to be both depressing and terrifying that a bunch of Junkie's with an internet connection are more knowledgable than someone with almost a decade of specialized medical training. Last time I saw my primary care Doctor I had to explain to her what the term Bioavailability meant. SERIOUSLY

 

[solidsnake77]

I was in a treatment with Suboxone 7 months, now I'm in withdrawal it's my day 4 clean, with help of kratom (it's miraculous, by the way). The first 2 months was fine, but after that weird side effects, like strongs headaches like a big pression in my brain (and worst if I smoke pot or drink alcohol, even a beer), dizzyness, numbness, confusion... I told to the doctor if prescribe me Subutex, I never used the IV only was in opiates of prescription like oxy, fenta, morph.. and always said no, even said me that any of their patients in Suboxone had headache, like if I was lying or something...


Suboxone is a weird stuff for me, and I'm glad of leave this crap behind.

 

[ErgicMergic]

It's always been my understanding that the reason for pairing Naloxone w/ Buprenorphine was for the purpose of gaining an edge in the pharmaceutical market. I don't know if this is technically "evergreening" as they call it, but it's pretty much an effort to deceive the medical community and its patients into buying a non-generic Buprenorphine product. The stated reason as we all know is the dubious suggestion that Naloxone makes the product less abusable.

This x 100

 

[HYDRO_CHRONIC]

Yes naloxone

 

[bEnZo bUdDyY]

I cant belived this is still being asked ... And its Suboxone/naloxone


Now on another completely different subject, idk if any one else reads but if you are prescribed suboxone you get a lot of pamphlets but the main suboxone one folded up like a map of a state.
That one if you read you will see that all the trials they did on the subjects the suboxone was an a ethanol drinkable alcohol solution just like 6partseven's bupe alcohol method. Its crazy then they market it in pills, and film strips... I put my dosage in alcohol solution everytime i dose my suboxone.

Its a ten-fold increase in BA

From like 30-45% too 70-75%

Try and see for your self if you havent already. Also cimetidine about an hour before dosing adds a big effect about 600-800mgs of cimetidine, go to your local kroger. Kmart. Walgreen. Cvs. Anywhere like those stores you can find generic tagamet in michigan for about o say 5-6$ for 30 200mgs.

But becareful with this medication, dont make a habit out of it. Not good for your insides...

Let me kno.

Any questions ill be up for a couple more hours....

 

[tightlywound]

my doctor will only prescribe suboxone/zubsolv/bunavail too, bupe/naloxone basically, never subutex.
I hate to sound ignorant but I'm just speaking from experience ...maybe I'm the minority they make suboxone for ...because I can IV or SL basically any amount of bupe/naloxone, from 1-16mg and feel NOTHING, not the slightest inkling of anything, ever. but if I IV subutex I can get quite a noticeable buzz for a few hours depending on the amount.
definitely not placebo effect, the first time I shot subutex I was expecting it to feel just like my zubsolv, that is, 100% imperceptible in every way, especially because the subutex I had at the time was a lower dose than my dose of zubsolv. I just stumbled upon the chance to get a single subutex just exactly the day I was on my last zubsolv and the pharmacy was out of stock and I'd have to be w/o it a day at least (a totally common occurrence ...I save all my cottons now to tide me over from getting sick when the pharmacy inevitably fucks up. anyway.), so I was like "the universe is smiling on me and does not want me to w/d, hooray." surprise surprise when I actually caught a little buzz, granted no euphoria, but DEFINITELY a buzz.
another time I was in the psych hospital for a week and they only give subutex in there so I hoarded 4-8mg of my 12mg dose most days, shared some w/ a fellow junkie who came in sick and was refused pharmacuetical detox, and ended up w/ about 16mg when I got out. did it all in one shot and was straight up NODDING (though still no euphoria) for a good couple hours and residually buzzed for another one or two maybe. and I IV 8-10mg bupe/naloxone every day and have for years, have done as much as about 16mg in one shot and as little as ~1mg; I have never ONCE experience ANY perceptible feeling of any sort from bupe/naloxone. but enough subutex gets me good and buzzed.

just saying.

 

[Keif' Richards]

What is really sad, is that I've never, I mean never encountered an MD at a clinic or outside of a clinic who knew anything about the Naloxone in Suboxone. Why is it there; what does it do; binding affinities? They know nothing and most will tell you without a doubt, that the Naloxone in the product is what makes it unabusable. So, big pharma was able to completely brainwash the entire industry of addiction medicine without blinking a fucking eye.

If it weren't for Bluelight, sometimes I feel like us users would be living in a proverbial stone age.

 

[Prescottdave]

my doctor will only prescribe suboxone/zubsolv/bunavail too, bupe/naloxone basically, never subutex.
I hate to sound ignorant but I'm just speaking from experience ...maybe I'm the minority they make suboxone for ...because I can IV or SL basically any amount of bupe/naloxone, from 1-16mg and feel NOTHING, not the slightest inkling of anything, ever. but if I IV subutex I can get quite a noticeable buzz for a few hours depending on the amount.
definitely not placebo effect, the first time I shot subutex I was expecting it to feel just like my zubsolv, that is, 100% imperceptible in every way, especially because the subutex I had at the time was a lower dose than my dose of zubsolv. I just stumbled upon the chance to get a single subutex just exactly the day I was on my last zubsolv and the pharmacy was out of stock and I'd have to be w/o it a day at least (a totally common occurrence ...I save all my cottons now to tide me over from getting sick when the pharmacy inevitably fucks up. anyway.), so I was like "the universe is smiling on me and does not want me to w/d, hooray." surprise surprise when I actually caught a little buzz, granted no euphoria, but DEFINITELY a buzz.
another time I was in the psych hospital for a week and they only give subutex in there so I hoarded 4-8mg of my 12mg dose most days, shared some w/ a fellow junkie who came in sick and was refused pharmacuetical detox, and ended up w/ about 16mg when I got out. did it all in one shot and was straight up NODDING (though still no euphoria) for a good couple hours and residually buzzed for another one or two maybe. and I IV 8-10mg bupe/naloxone every day and have for years, have done as much as about 16mg in one shot and as little as ~1mg; I have never ONCE experience ANY perceptible feeling of any sort from bupe/naloxone. but enough subutex gets me good and buzzed.

just saying.

Your what results from years of big pharma lying to doctors about Suboxone. Remember what the pharmaceutical reps told us about oxycontin back in the day? Or you are an outlier of the majority. We are seeing most people with a low to moderate tolerance can easily abuse both Suboxone and pure buprenorphine and get the exact same results time after time. Doing 16 mg of bupe in the form of subutex and then nodding has nothing to do with the lack of naloxone and more to do with the fact that bupe is 30-80 times more potent then morphine.

 

[Elis D]

Naltrexone is pretty much exactly the same as Naloxone, they are both full opiod antagonists.
So we all pretty much agree that Naloxone is inert but I can tell you for a that I'm 100% certain it is as for the past 5-7 years I've been having Naltrexone implants with yearly top ups as they last about 9-12 months and completely got rid of my opioid addiction and killed MOST of the cravings and I've been an opiate addict for the past 25yrs. After about 3-4yrs of being opiate free i really wanted to feel that opiate high again so I started using Buprenorphine patches along with Subutex, Suboxone and tamgesic as bupe is the only opioid you can use on top of Naltrexone as being a partial agonist it kicks Naltrexone of the mu-receptor and gets you high then when it wears of the Naltrexone being released from my implants move it's way back onto the receptor.
So for some stupid reason which is probably supposed to scare us they stupidly put Naloxone in Suboxone. Now I have fully relapsed and am on 32mgs of Suboxone and i haven't had a top up of Naltrexone in 6 months since my last ones ran out.
I get a nice high off my daily dose and if I wait till I'm feeling a little shity can get a nice little buzz off IVing Suboxone or bupe in general. I never feel a rush whatsoever of injecting Suboxone or Subutex but 20 or so minutes later feel the nice little buzz but if i mix up a bupe patch (not recommended as you are injecting a lot of adhesive along with the bupe) i definitely feel a little rush straight away and 20 or so minutes later I nod hard and the same thing as with tamgesic although ATM considering I'm on 32mg a day I don't go on the blink for as long as i used to probably due to the ceiling effect which also in my opinion is probably somewhere between 32mg and in the 40s.
I also don't know why we are still talking about this but it was nice to chuck my 32mgs (2 cents) worth in!

 

[Elis D]

I cant belived this is still being asked ... And its Suboxone/naloxone


Now on another completely different subject, idk if any one else reads but if you are prescribed suboxone you get a lot of pamphlets but the main suboxone one folded up like a map of a state.
That one if you read you will see that all the trials they did on the subjects the suboxone was an a ethanol drinkable alcohol solution just like 6partseven's bupe alcohol method. Its crazy then they market it in pills, and film strips... I put my dosage in alcohol solution everytime i dose my suboxone.

Its a ten-fold increase in BA

From like 30-45% too 70-75%

Try and see for your self if you havent already. Also cimetidine about an hour before dosing adds a big effect about 600-800mgs of cimetidine, go to your local kroger. Kmart. Walgreen. Cvs. Anywhere like those stores you can find generic tagamet in michigan for about o say 5-6$ for 30 200mgs.

But becareful with this medication, dont make a habit out of it. Not good for your insides...

Let me kno.

Any questions ill be up for a couple more hours....

Exactly how do you use alcohol with your dose, do you just put your Suboxone in your mouth then have a sip of alcohol or...??

 

[adder]

Its a ten-fold increase in BA

From like 30-45% too 70-75%

That's not a tenfold increase but a ~twofold increase. Anyway, I wanted to share my experience with using alcoholic solution. At first when I got good results with alcoholic solution, I was sure it's alcohol that does some magic like dilating your veins under your tongue. But now I don't think ethanol is necessary for the bioavailability to increase, what's more, I often can't see any difference between dosing a pill and dosing a solution (aqueous or alcoholic). Physically the difference is that when you dose it in a solution, say in 0.5ml of liquid, it's as if you had the pill dissolved right from the beginning in minimal amount of saliva, when you put a pill under your tongue, the key is how fast it dissolves and how much saliva you have under your tongue, ideally you want as little saliva for as long as possible. So if the amount of saliva increases fast after you put a pill under your tongue, you will likely get less absorbed because the concentration of bupe will be low. Another important factor in my opinion is thickness of your saliva, the more thick it is, the less is absorbed, if it's really thick, it feels like much much less is absorbed. So generally, you don't need alcoholic solution at all, it should work just as good with aqueous solution and if you have little saliva produced during pill dissolution, then you don't need to dissolve your pills before taking them, it's just a waste of time and some bupe in my opinion.

 

[Elis D]

That's not a tenfold increase but a ~twofold increase. Anyway, I wanted to share my experience with using alcoholic solution. At first when I got good results with alcoholic solution, I was sure it's alcohol that does some magic like dilating your veins under your tongue. But now I don't think ethanol is necessary for the bioavailability to increase, what's more, I often can't see any difference between dosing a pill and dosing a solution (aqueous or alcoholic). Physically the difference is that when you dose it in a solution, say in 0.5ml of liquid, it's as if you had the pill dissolved right from the beginning in minimal amount of saliva, when you put a pill under your tongue, the key is how fast it dissolves and how much saliva you have under your tongue, ideally you want as little saliva for as long as possible. So if the amount of saliva increases fast after you put a pill under your tongue, you will likely get less absorbed because the concentration of bupe will be low. Another important factor in my opinion is thickness of your saliva, the more thick it is, the less is absorbed, if it's really thick, it feels like much much less is absorbed. So generally, you don't need alcoholic solution at all, it should work just as good with aqueous solution and if you have little saliva produced during pill dissolution, then you don't need to dissolve your pills before taking them, it's just a waste of time and some bupe in my opinion.

I tend to agree with pretty much everything you have written, although off topic i find this interesting but it's just pretty much commen sense yeah! I did used to think sometimes that my dose worked better on some day's compared to others and just put it down to my body ie, the amount of sleep I've had and how I'm just feeling in general, however i still think this plays a big roll it was the fact that i used to sometimes take the smallest sip off water after I had taken my dose (Suboxone films) to help absorb it but really i was just making intoa watered down solution. I totally believe this stands to reason. Now I just wet my mouth and then keep it pretty much as dry as possible. I wet my mouth cause I have my dose pretty much as soon as I wake up and usually thaks to quetiapine my lips are stuck to my teeth when I wake up so you need a littlte bit of moisture.
Whats funny is the how uneducated and nieve sone chemists are, I've dosed at a lot of different chemists over the years and in lots of different states (AU) and at one chemist when I first started going there she used to pass me a cupp of water after i put the films in my mouth but i always said no thanks and was on my way but after a while i asked why she would hand me a cup of watet after my dose a d she said so i could wash it down meaning swallow it, I shit you not.