Opioids OD warning signs?

[andrek159206]

this is the point my friend, do I hope to feel like it or do I go after more oxy? I know it could be worse in the future.

 

[d896629]

I always hear these stories of people dying with the needle still in their arm. Does this mean their systems literally shut down after injecting??

I don’t do heroin but I pop percs. I always get worried several hours later that if I give into the drowsiness that I might not wake up. Is there a window of time after taking the pill that you’re in the clear from dying from it? Like can an OD onset be delayed and happen 3 hours later? 6 hours? 8 hours?

would be good to know for my own anxiety that after a certain window, I can relax and know I’m not gonna die.

You would have to pop a tremendous amount of Percs to die from them...I'd be much more concerned about APAP/Acetaminophen poisoning than oxycodone overdose from using Percs beyond 10 per day [that limit is only in place due to the Acetaminophen content - unless you are doing a cold-water filtration to remove the Acetaminophen from the Percocet pills, and drinking the filtered solution].

My suggestion would be to grab a couple of 4mg Narcan/Naloxone nasal sprays to keep on hand. They give them out free at pharmacies where I live, but I'm not sure if that is the case in your location. Although I should warn you that using Narcan will put you in precipitated withdrawal if you are opiate/opioid dependent, and may produce some discomfort even if you are not dependent. I would also recommend calling a friend and letting them know what you are doing, and to contact you within so many hours to check on you. That helps tremendously for peace of mind for me. We should all be so fortunate to have friends or loved ones who would do that for us.

In the case of Percocets, if you found yourself nodding off to a point that you were worried [again, with Percocets, this really shouldn't be a thing, but technically IS possible, and you can never be too careful, IMO], you could always self-administer the Narcan nasal spray, and deal with the potential precipitated withdrawal, but with the peace of mind that at least you won't die.

I'm not sure what would be a good way to deal with any potential precipitated withdrawal in that hypothetical scenario...possibly using a low-dose benzo - JUST enough to not be in extreme pain, if you get crippling precipitated withdrawal from the Narcan/Naloxone, but NOT enough to be sedated. If you did sedate yourself from a benzo after using Narcan to get you out of an opioid overdose, my concern/fear would be that once the Narcan wears off [which it would relatively quickly - within an hour or two, I would think], that you would have two depressants in your system. And if you are not vigilant enough to self-administer another Narcan nasal spray after the first one wears off, you would be dealing with two central nervous system depressants, which could potentially lead to overdose, as benzos and opiates potentiate one another.

I'm actually not sure what people are supposed to do in the event of precipitated withdrawal [to alleviate the pain it causes]. So please research that before following my thoughts above, as they are only what I suspect may be the correct course of action to [1] get yourself out of a Percocet overdose, and [2] get yourself out of the pain/discomfort of precipitated withdrawal from doing so.

While I do NOT know if a low-dose benzo would be safe or responsible in the above hypothetical scenario, I HIGHLY recommend getting your hands on a Narcan nasal spray. They are incredible easy to self-administer, and provide great peace of mind. I would actually recommend getting 2-5 of them, so that you know in the absolute worst-case scenario, that you can stave off an overdose for hours.

Technically, Narcan could have saved the life of actor Chris Farley. Although I'm unclear as to what sort of pain he would be in if he was both in precipitated withdrawal while also using grams and grams of cocaine. That in itself could have killed him. The only thing I could think of would be both Narcan and a benzodiazepine in his situation...but these are very scary hypotheticals for me to ponder.

Be safe - and please pick up a Narcan/Naloxone nasal spray [or two...or 3+] if you can. They provide me with tremendous peace of mind. Generally enough for me to completely reduce my anxiety regarding overdose. Don't use more opiates than you would normally just because you have Narcan on hand though - just use your normal amount, and keep the Narcan within arm's reach in the event you find yourself nodding off more powerfully than you would like to.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

i have a lot of tolerance of clonazepam and take safe for times, i just missing the oxycodone feeling, because i'm out of prescription, my drug combos are very dangerous i know, but i know my doses.

If you have a tolerance to clonazepam, you should be okay mixing it with tramadol. Mixing klonopin with tramadol will actually lower your chances of having a seizure. But IMO, benzos can really dull down the euphoria and stimulation from opioids, while possibly potentiating dangerous levels of sedation.

If you have no opioid tolerance at the moment, you should be able to get by with 100-150mg of tramadol. Tramadol can also take up to 3 hours to reach full effect, so be careful and patient.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

this is the point my friend, do I hope to feel like it or do I go after more oxy? I know it could be worse in the future.

It's all the same. If you want to continue using you have to accept that there will be consequences and you don't know where your using will lead. Even people with chronic pain go through the same physical changes that opiates induce. There's no way to cheat the withdrawals and financial misery/anguish

Kratom is the only "opiate" I'd say isn't evil. It has a withdrawal that's quite nasty.. but it doesn't feel like the high wants to consume you.

 

[Shady's Fox]

 

[Zeke1977]

It's all the same. If you want to continue using you have to accept that there will be consequences and you don't know where your using will lead. Even people with chronic pain go through the same physical changes that opiates induce. There's no way to cheat the withdrawals and financial misery/anguish

Kratom is the only "opiate" I'd say isn't evil. It has a withdrawal that's quite nasty.. but it doesn't feel like the high wants to consume you.

Pills are far more expensive than H but I’m scared of taking H so I stick to pills.
sometimes it doesn’t seem to matter how much I take, I don’t feel it or I just get nauseous, other times I only need a little to feel great, then there are the times I feel the effects do too much, I even tried to OD once and still woke up the next day, just fine.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Pills are far more expensive than H but I’m scared of taking H so I stick to pills.
sometimes it doesn’t seem to matter how much I take, I don’t feel it or I just get nauseous, other times I only need a little to feel great, then there are the times I feel the effects do too much, I even tried to OD once and still woke up the next day, just fine.

Yeah, it helps to accept oxy for what it is. It will never be the pure heroin "whoah" that makes you sit in a chair and want to do nothing besides nod out.

Don't get me wrong, oxy is a really great feeling. It's just not worth the house load of money lol. I really enjoy life better being mostly clean and indulging here and there. Constantly dodging opioid withdrawal is exhausting. If heroin had cleanly measured doses... or milligram count? I'd probably be doing it too honestly.

 

[cowboycurtis]

I’ve never done oxy other than a few Percocet many years ago. I don’t think I even felt it though. I’ve heard it has an energetic quality to it. Does it not really make you nod? What’s it like compared to IV heroin?

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I’ve never done oxy other than a few Percocet many years ago. I don’t think I even felt it though. I’ve heard it has an energetic quality to it. Does it not really make you nod? What’s it like compared to IV heroin?

IV heroin is the queen of all drugs, let's be real lol. IV heroin is "the perfect drug" at first because most users don't crave anything at all (besides more heroin). I'm guessing that IV heroin with good product is the best feeling in the world arguably. So good that users can't stop IV'ing heroin even after the high is barely there after 3-4 years of use.

Oxy is jam packed with euphoria and a stimulant-type high. Heroin makes folks nod out and become slugs. Oxy in my opinion is both a stimulant and a euphoriant. In high doses one will nod--but I never did nod. It seems some people nod from opioids while others are energized. Either way, if you had opiate tolerance previously before trying oxy I'm not surprised (there are much stronger opiates than oxy which make painkillers underwhelming). Oxy high isn't meant to be pressed to the limits like heroin. I find that oxycodone has a sweetspot. If you surpass that dose trying to become ultra-euphoric.. something is lost in the body's translation and it becomes dysphoria with trouble breathing. I've found high dose oxy to have barely much more euphoria than lower to moderate doses. I'm guessing heroin is a little bit different in that regard. You can push it to the OD limit and still feel amazing on heroin.

Heroin is around 3x the strength of oxy (super watered down statement, I know). But you can get way higher for less product. We know the other risks involved of IV heroin use... but I definitely would state that oxycodone is a much more manageable addiction--despite the absurd cost of maintaining it--than heroin. With fent now infecting virtually all of the USA's heroin, the overdose risk is absurdly high for even users with extreme tolerance in my opinion.

Problem with oxy is that no one can afford it lol. You'd have to be objectively wealthy to maintain the addiction beyond 2 years (or have an unlimited script by being a super model or actor or something).

 

[cowboycurtis]

Ya I was actually in WD when I ate those and I don’t think it even got me well. I was only smoking heroin back then. I think I ate like 100 mg too, maybe 50 if they were 5’s. I’m part of a minority these days that never really did pills before getting into heroin. It just kind of happened.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Ya I was actually in WD when I ate those and I don’t think it even got me well. I was only smoking heroin back then. I think I ate like 100 mg too, maybe 50 if they were 5’s. I’m part of a minority these days that never really did pills before getting into heroin. It just kind of happened.

"Back then" the heroin was probably great because it had minimal fent content. Someone adjusted to heroin would need very high doses of oxy to counteract their withdrawal.

I know you can snort heroin but watching someone go through someone making the switch from oxy to heroin was insane... heroin high and the low just looks god awful. I know people do horrible things to get high off of oxy, but heroin seems to make people turn into something so far away from who they were. I haven't seen that from oxy with users.

Basically, oxycodone lacks the additional highways of pleasure that heroin has. Oxy high can in my opinion be just as good, but heroin typically makes oxy seem boring. It just depends if you want to take recreational drug use to that level lol. heroin is more than a lifestyle for many addicts. They literally can't stop even if it kills them. Lastly, the price of oxy is what prevents a great number of addicts from turning into monsters. Once you've blown all your money on stupid pills and are no longer high, you've got no choice but to be sober lol!

If anyone reading this is currently addicted to oxy, I recommend never trying heroin. No matter how bad your opioid addiction gets, you can always ensure that your relapses don't kill you by the milligram count. As long as you learn the dangerous interactions (never benzos like xanax/klonopin combined with painkillers, or alcohol, etc). you'll live. There's way too many ghosts out there from fent anlogues nowadays. People think that heroin is just another opiate like oxy. Very few people can manage their own oxy use, and way less can manage their heroin use. You might think that you can temporarily use heroin and "try it," but the reality is that the high is too powerful for the general population to control. I mean heroin's reputation proceeds itself.

 

[Bomb319]

I IVed heroin, hydromorphone, oxycodone, coke and other things for 5-6 years and never ONCE ODed - not even enough to make me nauseated or otherwise uncomfortable. This is despite having several different H dealers with highly variable quality. No, I'm not saying this to somehow brag or question the experience of others, just that you too can be safe as long as you follow these VERY IMPORTANT steps of which most have already been said:

1. KNOW YOUR TOLERANCE. That's probably the most critical. If you haven't used in weeks and have been through withdrawal, your tolerance will likely be close to that of a totally opioid naive person. On a related note, merely using your normal product with a normal dose can actually cause overdose if you use it in an unfamiliar setting, or in circumstances different from the usual ones.

2. Have somebody with you to make sure you're OK and who can call emergency services for you if necessary. It's always best not to use alone, although I did for years. You just need to be smart about it and prepared. There are apps where you can enter information in right before you use, and then have to confirm with it a few minutes afterwards. If it prompts you to do so and gets no response, it sends you another critical notice to respond after a minute or two. If it STILL receives no update, it will automatically call 911 or local paramedics and give them your location. AMAZING idea...In wish they had this (or if they did, that I knew about it) back when I was using.

3. Take only a tiny bit at first if unsure of your tolerance or potency of the product

4. Become very familiar with your body/brain and try to identify subtle warning signs that you've used too much. Are you slightly nauseated? Unable to think clearly at all? Stuff like that.

 

[Bomb319]

"Back then" the heroin was probably great because it had minimal fent content. Someone adjusted to heroin would need very high doses of oxy to counteract their withdrawal.

I know you can snort heroin but watching someone go through someone making the switch from oxy to heroin was insane... heroin high and the low just looks god awful. I know people do horrible things to get high off of oxy, but heroin seems to make people turn into something so far away from who they were. I haven't seen that from oxy with users.

Basically, oxycodone lacks the additional highways of pleasure that heroin has. Oxy high can in my opinion be just as good, but heroin typically makes oxy seem boring. It just depends if you want to take recreational drug use to that level lol. heroin is more than a lifestyle for many addicts. They literally can't stop even if it kills them. Lastly, the price of oxy is what prevents a great number of addicts from turning into monsters. Once you've blown all your money on stupid pills and are no longer high, you've got no choice but to be sober lol!

If anyone reading this is currently addicted to oxy, I recommend never trying heroin. No matter how bad your opioid addiction gets, you can always ensure that your relapses don't kill you by the milligram count. As long as you learn the dangerous interactions (never benzos like xanax/klonopin combined with painkillers, or alcohol, etc). you'll live. There's way too many ghosts out there from fent anlogues nowadays. People think that heroin is just another opiate like oxy. Very few people can manage their own oxy use, and way less can manage their heroin use. You might think that you can temporarily use heroin and "try it," but the reality is that the high is too powerful for the general population to control. I mean heroin's reputation proceeds itself.

"heroin is more than a lifestyle for many addicts. They literally can't stop even if it kills them."
"I know people do horrible things to get high off of oxy, but heroin seems to make people turn into something so far away from who they were. I haven't seen that from oxy with users."


Sorry, but I don't really agree with this. It's certainly true that heroin can be all-encompassing and take over your life, but if you're banging Dilaudids, it's not going to be much better (if at all). I loved H, but I also loved pills. Shooting any strong opiate will cause you to do anything to get more of it.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

"heroin is more than a lifestyle for many addicts. They literally can't stop even if it kills them."
"I know people do horrible things to get high off of oxy, but heroin seems to make people turn into something so far away from who they were. I haven't seen that from oxy with users."


Sorry, but I don't really agree with this. It's certainly true that heroin can be all-encompassing and take over your life, but if you're banging Dilaudids, it's not going to be much better (if at all). I loved H, but I also loved pills. Shooting any strong opiate will cause you to do anything to get more of it.

That's true. I suppose I was referring to mostly oxy/percocet/morphine tablets.

I'm sure something like Dilauded blows oxy out of the water, lol. Wish I knew. In all my days of a druggie I've never found anything besides oxy/percocet/morphine tablets. Dilauded/hydromorphone is quite harder to find these days.... if that's even a bad thing

However I wanted to ask a funny question, lol. Is it weird to administer Narcan on yourself? In case you suspect you've OD'd? Or would it just be ridiculous and constantly cursing yourself with angry naps from paranoia of OD'ing?

 

[Bomb319]

That's true. I suppose I was referring to mostly oxy/percocet/morphine tablets.

I'm sure something like Dilauded blows oxy out of the water, lol. Wish I knew. In all my days of a druggie I've never found anything besides oxy/percocet/morphine tablets. Dilauded/hydromorphone is quite harder to find these days.... if that's even a bad thing

However I wanted to ask a funny question, lol. Is it weird to administer Narcan on yourself? In case you suspect you've OD'd? Or would it just be ridiculous and constantly cursing yourself with angry naps from paranoia of OD'ing?

Trust me, you don't. I know that's the advice everyone gives who's been there, and you probably won't take it (certainly not a criticism, it's just human nature), but I started out with Percs as well. It took me years to get to that point. Looking back, I can honestly say that the Percs were much better overall. I don't just mean because of the negative consequences, I mean the actual high itself. All shooting does is give you an overwhelming need to do it more, which of course can't be satisfied. As soon as the needle is in your arm, you're already planning how to get the money to get more. If it's your last of your stash, this is much worse.

 

[cowboycurtis]

"heroin is more than a lifestyle for many addicts. They literally can't stop even if it kills them."
"I know people do horrible things to get high off of oxy, but heroin seems to make people turn into something so far away from who they were. I haven't seen that from oxy with users."


Sorry, but I don't really agree with this. It's certainly true that heroin can be all-encompassing and take over your life, but if you're banging Dilaudids, it's not going to be much better (if at all). I loved H, but I also loved pills. Shooting any strong opiate will cause you to do anything to get more of it.

While I mostly agree with you, I have to point out the fact that heroin is illegal. I know it’s technically legal in some parts of Europe for medical necessities, but it’s rather rare and it is by and far an illegal street drug just about anywhere in the world. That brings a dangerous, often criminal element to heroin that does not necessarily have to exist with pills, regardless of potency. Certainly any opioid could bring about severe desperation, but when you’re already associated with the criminal lifestyle, directly or indirectly, I think you’re more prone to commit the more shocking things people do for money. I don’t think one is necessarily any worse or better than the other one.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Trust me, you don't. I know that's the advice everyone gives who's been there, and you probably won't take it (certainly not a criticism, it's just human nature), but I started out with Percs as well. It took me years to get to that point. Looking back, I can honestly say that the Percs were much better overall. I don't just mean because of the negative consequences, I mean the actual high itself. All shooting does is give you an overwhelming need to do it more, which of course can't be satisfied. As soon as the needle is in your arm, you're already planning how to get the money to get more. If it's your last of your stash, this is much worse.

I've been through a lot myself. I'm sure I'm lucky I didn't encounter diauded.. I can function well on opioids because of the thebaine content (stim morphine). However, dilauded might be a little too "wet" and incredible

Unless you were referring to a general you. My life motto was always no meth or heroin. It still got wicked dark at some points though, lol. I suppose you can't enjoy opiates without losing something. Trade for a trade!

 

[Bomb319]

While I mostly agree with you, I have to point out the fact that heroin is illegal. I know it’s technically legal in some parts of Europe for medical necessities, but it’s rather rare and it is by and far an illegal street drug just about anywhere in the world. That brings a dangerous, often criminal element to heroin that does not necessarily have to exist with pills, regardless of potency. Certainly any opioid could bring about severe desperation, but when you’re already associated with the criminal lifestyle, directly or indirectly, I think you’re more prone to commit the more shocking things people do for money. I don’t think one is necessarily any worse or better than the other one.

That's certainly true. I was just thinking of it from an addiction point of view, but there absolutely can be more risks with H. Although with me, several of my dealers were able to get both at different times. The absolute worst thing was having to walk straight into the worst part of town trying to find someone new. That may be a big part of my continued abstinence, actually. The only thing worse is having to do it in severe WD.

 

[SimplyTrinity]

My mate OD'd in my bed while laying next to me. I was watching a movie and he nodded off. then he started snoring badly and having gaps between his breathing, i started elbowing him to stop snoring but no response. Then i slapped him and no response, Then i pored ice cold water over his face and still nothing apart from the snoring and gasping for air. Thats when i knew this ws bad and phoned the paramedics. They got there just in time to give him a shot and as soon as they did he woke up and flipped out, getting all crazy and manic. They then had to strap him down and then took him to the hospital. Guess what im trying to say is that if you don't have someone with you or monitoring you then the outcome can be on the negative side if you know what i mean. I was still giving my mate cpr while i was waiting for the paramedics just to keep his breathing going. Seeing someone od is a scary thing and seeing them die from it is even worse. Think i got a bit off topic but just be careful and like mentioned don't mix drugs if you not a seasoned vet or have a high tolerance to the meds being used. BUt im sure you will be okay. Just take it slower next time and by that i mean drop your dosages. Plus dosages are important for us to give us some background of you and your use to give a little bit more advise.

But please be safe and also the half life is 2-3hrs, i think if you have made it past that mark you will be fine provided nothing else was added

Also really sorry you and your buddy had to go through that. Curious if you’d be willing to share a little more detail about that specific situation. Specifically, what drug did your friend take and how long after he took them did he nod off?

I’m so scared of respiratory depresssion on oxy, that I’ll basically manually fight off the nodding off feeling which will result in my staying awake until 4am (when I took my last oxy at 9pm) in order to comfortably fall asleep when I feel like enough is now out of my system. It’s kind of irrational but I actually used to do the same thing in college when I was drunk. I was irrationally scared of drowning in my puke if I went to sleep drunk, so I’d always force myself to stay awake until I sobered up, then finally go to sleep.

sounds like most people here agree once your outside the window of the half life of oxy, the risk of dying from respiratory depression goes significantly down (assuming no other drugs or alcohol), so I’ll even play it safer and allow myself to relax once I hit 1.5x the half life.

Only thing now is I’ve introduced 10mg daily of fluoxetine (Prozac) which I just started 2 weeks ago, so technically there’s a new variable.

 

[SimplyTrinity]

You would have to pop a tremendous amount of Percs to die from them...I'd be much more concerned about APAP/Acetaminophen poisoning than oxycodone overdose from using Percs beyond 10 per day [that limit is only in place due to the Acetaminophen content - unless you are doing a cold-water filtration to remove the Acetaminophen from the Percocet pills, and drinking the filtered solution].

My suggestion would be to grab a couple of 4mg Narcan/Naloxone nasal sprays to keep on hand. They give them out free at pharmacies where I live, but I'm not sure if that is the case in your location. Although I should warn you that using Narcan will put you in precipitated withdrawal if you are opiate/opioid dependent, and may produce some discomfort even if you are not dependent. I would also recommend calling a friend and letting them know what you are doing, and to contact you within so many hours to check on you. That helps tremendously for peace of mind for me. We should all be so fortunate to have friends or loved ones who would do that for us.

In the case of Percocets, if you found yourself nodding off to a point that you were worried [again, with Percocets, this really shouldn't be a thing, but technically IS possible, and you can never be too careful, IMO], you could always self-administer the Narcan nasal spray, and deal with the potential precipitated withdrawal, but with the peace of mind that at least you won't die.

I'm not sure what would be a good way to deal with any potential precipitated withdrawal in that hypothetical scenario...possibly using a low-dose benzo - JUST enough to not be in extreme pain, if you get crippling precipitated withdrawal from the Narcan/Naloxone, but NOT enough to be sedated. If you did sedate yourself from a benzo after using Narcan to get you out of an opioid overdose, my concern/fear would be that once the Narcan wears off [which it would relatively quickly - within an hour or two, I would think], that you would have two depressants in your system. And if you are not vigilant enough to self-administer another Narcan nasal spray after the first one wears off, you would be dealing with two central nervous system depressants, which could potentially lead to overdose, as benzos and opiates potentiate one another.

I'm actually not sure what people are supposed to do in the event of precipitated withdrawal [to alleviate the pain it causes]. So please research that before following my thoughts above, as they are only what I suspect may be the correct course of action to [1] get yourself out of a Percocet overdose, and [2] get yourself out of the pain/discomfort of precipitated withdrawal from doing so.

While I do NOT know if a low-dose benzo would be safe or responsible in the above hypothetical scenario, I HIGHLY recommend getting your hands on a Narcan nasal spray. They are incredible easy to self-administer, and provide great peace of mind. I would actually recommend getting 2-5 of them, so that you know in the absolute worst-case scenario, that you can stave off an overdose for hours.

Technically, Narcan could have saved the life of actor Chris Farley. Although I'm unclear as to what sort of pain he would be in if he was both in precipitated withdrawal while also using grams and grams of cocaine. That in itself could have killed him. The only thing I could think of would be both Narcan and a benzodiazepine in his situation...but these are very scary hypotheticals for me to ponder.

Be safe - and please pick up a Narcan/Naloxone nasal spray [or two...or 3+] if you can. They provide me with tremendous peace of mind. Generally enough for me to completely reduce my anxiety regarding overdose. Don't use more opiates than you would normally just because you have Narcan on hand though - just use your normal amount, and keep the Narcan within arm's reach in the event you find yourself nodding off more powerfully than you would like to.

Great advice in here! I actually learned about Narcam earlier this year when I had a scary moment (which, in retrospect was more likely an anxiety attack than early stages of an OD). I felt like I was getting breathing issues after taking 15mg of oxy and just felt weird. My anxiety made it much worse and I basically just had to wait it out. Having Narcam in my pantry definitely gives me peace of mind, like you say. I’ve also instructed my wife that while I’m taking pain meds (basically always) if I ever nod off and can’t be woken up, that she should administer it. Smart idea to get a few of them... I’m going to fill one next time at my pharmacy.
Quick question though, which you sort of address but want to ask explicitly - I had the misconception that if you were alert enough to self-administer Narcam, then you probably weren’t actually at dangerous levels of your drug in the first place. Or, to put it differently, that if you were ODing or within the early stages of an OD, it would already be too late to self-administer Narcam. But if that’s not the case, and you could “catch yourself” feeling off and potentially headed to an OD, and save yourself with Narcam then that already gives me some peace of mind.