Heroin Occasional and controlled heroin use

[johanneschimpo]

What tips would you have for MONSTA et al to help them keep to controlled use, without ever getting a habit?

None. Within my circle of friends, I was one of the first too see the downside of it all (w/d, $, family, etc). However, it wasn't possible to get it through to anyone who was still in the honeymoon phase. They all had to fuck something up for themselves, or at least get really sick first, then they would listen to what I had to say (or more likely, find out for themselves). After that point, however, people I know stopped using entirely, or as this threads about, learn a little self-control, and be able to use occasionally without physical dependence.

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

I am somehow able to control my heroin use now but am still very scared it could get out of hand.

 

[ayjay]

^fear is a protective factor!

I would agree with other posters here such as fastandbulbous and johanneschimpo that most people who use heroin recreationally will be dependant users to some level at some point. BUT I don't think this is an inherent property of the drug, or an inevitable consequence of using heroin in the existing social context.

From the point of view of the individual who does use heroin, but is not dependant (and has never been) - such as MildKandy and MONSTA, the question is "What can I do to minimise the chance of getting a habit?" There are some answers to this question, but also I believe a lot more work to be done. Places like Bluelight are ideally situated to thrash out some of this.

You can make rules about when you use, and how you use.

You can list some objective measures to help you realise when you are heading for trouble.

You can plan for what you will do if you realise you are heading for trouble.

You can plan for how you will deal with situations when the people around you are having a taste, but you aren't.

You can think about the good things about using heroin too - you are at more risk of getting a habit if heroin fulfils an important role in your life. There might be other ways to fulfil that role.

The easiest way to not get a heroin habit is not to use heroin - but hey; life wasn't meant to be easy!

 

[ebola?]

>>From what little I know of taking sociology classes, equivocation is the name of the game>>

Being a sociologist, I'd be kinda interested in an elaboration.

ebola

 

[ayjay]

^Yeah - me too. Surely someone has some specific examples of how they control their heroin/opioid use?

 

[Visu04atBLUE]

for some time I thought I could control MY H use...
It got out of the hand very quickly...
although I never hit rock bottom because of lack of money, fear of the drug, subutex and help from my parents and friends!

I guess it all depends - if u concider the the H high the most fun thing to do, got no other hobbies or interests, got nothing to lose, then its easy to fall into the trap of addiction...

I'm getting off subutex nowadays, I had a chance to use for free a couple of days ago but I didn't...
I don't want to ever go back into the way my life was when I was using...

time tought me to to respect this drug, its stronger than any man, and for those of u that think that u are stronger than H, u ain't dead yet are u? you still got time to hit rock bottom...
all it takes is some tragedy like somebody said.

 

[who mE?]

Personally, I was unable to avoid daily opioid use, however I WAS able to prevent my dose from ever escalating beyond what is reasonable for somebody with no tolerance. I will qualify that with the fact that I was never actually motivated to avoid physical dependance, as the benefits I got outweighed the negatives (and today they still do, which is why I'm still using buprenorphine). I also must say I never used heroin, only oxycodone, hydrocodone, fentanyl, morphine, dihydrocodine, and codeine.

A major reason why I haven't quit sooner (and am still maintained on buprenorphine) was that I could not psychologically handle the physical pain, insomnia and inability to be productive.

I believe that nobody who has been through opioid dependance would repeat your (very-popular) statement that withdrawal is 1% physical and 99% psychological. Although I do understand exactly what those who make this statement mean.

The axiom that addiction is 99% psychologcal implies that addiction can be cured with primarily psychological treatment.
This perspective disregards the HUGE role that physical pain plays in one's own psychological well-being. In my opinion, the vast majority of addiction-medicine specialists do not understand this simple fact, which many practitioners who treat Chronic Pain patients have learned this through years of first-hand observation.

Pain is so powerful of a motivator, that the psychological approach will fail unless it is supplimented with physical treatment for the extremely severe suffering and physical agony of ending a physical dependance. Empirical evidence shows that the relapse rate from "Cold-Turkey" detox methods is rarely less than 90%.

To explain my perspective, I refer you to the essay "The Role of Pain in Freedom" by Jim Hogshire, which I believe expresses how pain is simultaneously psychological.

I recommend that anybody seeking a doctor to prescribe them buprenorphine find one who specializes in the treatment Chronic Pain.

 

[ayjay]

More feedback!

I believe that nobody who has been through opioid dependance would repeat your (very-popular) statement that withdrawal is 1% physical and 99% psychological.

Who said this? Not me!

I'm still after some specific feedback from the occasional/controlled crowd.

For me - managing heroin use is a piece of piss, but that's because:
1. Barely anyone I know still uses - it just doesn't come up as an option that often
2. I don't have much time in my life at the moment for intoxication - got kids, job etc - although I love getting wasted when the opportunity arises
3. Heroin isn't my favourite drug anyway
4. I don't suffer from chronic pain
and so on. I've probably taken heroin about half a dozen times in the last 8 years.

What I would like to see fleshed out here is how people might manage heroin use when they really like it, when it's around all the time, when they use more than, say, monthly.

 

[psychedelicious]

The study's design is inherently flawed...

Voluntary response sampling guarantees bias, especially when illegalities are involved. This study would be valid perhaps if the population of interest was reduced to regular and occasional heroin users who both have access to the internet and are willing to anonymously announce that they use heroin. The population should be reduced even further to include only users of heroin who not only fulfill the above requirements, but also have used heroin in the past 6 months. Excluding all of the users of heroin who haven't used in half a year is most likely excluding most of the users of heroin who are not addicted.

How did the researchers ensure that the 123 subjects who responded to the online study were responding truthfully?

I know that I would most likely not respond to any survey which claims to be anonymous (or even truely is anonymous without doubt) if admitting to illicit substance use was a prerequisite of the survey. If I had a stable job and family at stake, I certainly would not jeapardize these things for the sake of an online pro-heroin survey.

Argh.



Edit: This is not to say that regular or occasional heroin use without addiction is not possible, but that this study's conclusions are invalid. They may not be wrong, but the generalizations made are far too broad.

 

[mycotoxin]

Doesn't look like it has been published in a peer-reviewed format anywhere... I wonder why? Their subjective use of terminology would get ravaged in any addiction journal I know off...

Someone pass the science...

Well, theres always a clever dick on these boards that thinks they know everything. You can't discredit this just because it doesn't use the correct scientific terminology. I am evidence of this all being true/possible.....I've been using for the best part of ten years on and off with few problems arising from my usage.
And one more thing; if you're trying to seem more clever than everyone else you might want to check your 'school-boy' spelling mistakes "..I know off" ???
I think you mean "..I know of".......Sorry to point this out (its a bit pathetic, I know!) but you brought this on yourself.
I'm actually a biologist but I can still admit that just because something cannot be proven by science it doesn't mean that it isn't possible. Theres much in this world (and beyond!) that cannot be explained yet, mainly due to our lack of understanding and appreciation as human beings.
Anyway, I'll end this by saying that recreational/controlled heroin use IS POSSIBLE. FACT. However, that doesn't mean I am suggesting that people try it. Some have more will power than others and some people are just too damn stupid and irresponsible to be messing around with H.
Until we know exactly how the human brain works this sort of thing ie.addiction will never be fully understood.
Sorry to jump on you like this,mate. Its nothing personal, just an opinion.
Regards,
'Myco'

 

[mycotoxin]

for some time I thought I could control MY H use...
It got out of the hand very quickly...
although I never hit rock bottom because of lack of money, fear of the drug, subutex and help from my parents and friends!

I guess it all depends - if u concider the the H high the most fun thing to do, got no other hobbies or interests, got nothing to lose, then its easy to fall into the trap of addiction...

I'm getting off subutex nowadays, I had a chance to use for free a couple of days ago but I didn't...
I don't want to ever go back into the way my life was when I was using...

time tought me to to respect this drug, its stronger than any man, and for those of u that think that u are stronger than H, u ain't dead yet are u? you still got time to hit rock bottom...
all it takes is some tragedy like somebody said.

This kind of talk is bad and I wish people would get out of this mind-set.
Heroin IS NOT a person. Its not 'out to get you'. Its not 'evil'. Its a product of nature that human beings realised they could use and abuse. The problems with addiction do not come from the drug, they come from the person.
I also hate this perception that heroin 'makes you rob people'. IT DOES NOT. The person makes that decision due to thier personal circumstances. I personally think that the type of heroin user that steals to fund their habit would probably be stealing anyway for another reason. We have to look at the cause of addiction in each individual. Its less about biology and more about sociology. Addiction is the result of our society not the result of nature.
I myself am unemployed at the moment and cannot afford to buy any drugs but I'm not out stealing old ladies hand-bags, I just don't use.
Kind regards,
'Myco'

 

[mycotoxin]

Who said this? Not me!

I'm still after some specific feedback from the occasional/controlled crowd.

For me - managing heroin use is a piece of piss, but that's because:
1. Barely anyone I know still uses - it just doesn't come up as an option that often
2. I don't have much time in my life at the moment for intoxication - got kids, job etc - although I love getting wasted when the opportunity arises
3. Heroin isn't my favourite drug anyway
4. I don't suffer from chronic pain
and so on. I've probably taken heroin about half a dozen times in the last 8 years.

What I would like to see fleshed out here is how people might manage heroin use when they really like it, when it's around all the time, when they use more than, say, monthly.

Hi!
I myself have been using for nearly ten years on and off and I graduated from university with a good quality degree and lead a relatively normal life. Im healthy, have healthy relationships with family and friends and have no criminal record.
I go through stages of different levels of use depending on how busy I am but on average I would say I use once a fortnight, sometimes once a week (about half a gram at a time). I have been through periods of using alot more often than that but once I realised that it was happening too often I would step back from it a little..Sometimes quiting for months.
Scoring, for me, is a simple phonecall and bus journey away so its not difficult for me to get hold of.
If you ask me its all about educating yourself and not believing what you hear in the papers or on the tv. Find out for yourself and do some research instead of being spoon-fed by 'the man'. Knowledge is power.
One love.
'Myco'

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Given that pretty much every single heroin addict has started out by duping themselves into thinking they were the one in a thousand person that could handle their smack without getting addicted, it seems a bit unwise to present yourself or people who can actually do it successfully. People want to try heroin, and seeing others who can do it recreationally rather than habitually will just these people who many have weaker minds than they think they have into giving it a try.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Given that pretty much every single heroin addict has started out by duping themselves into thinking they were the one in a thousand person that could handle their smack without getting addicted, it seems a bit unwise to present yourself or people who can actually do it successfully. People want to try heroin, and seeing others who can do it recreationally rather than habitually will just these people who many have weaker minds than they think they have into giving it a try.

Your perespective on heroin is very slanted. I'm not trying to belittle it or claim that it's not a powerful drug or that it's not extremely easy to get addicted to it (I have an addictive personality, so I would never try it), but claiming that it's 1 in 1,000 who don't get addicted is not only completely absurd but defies all of the actual statistics published about this - it is my understanding that 70-80% of people who use heroin don't become addicted. Yes, that's right - shock horror - MOST heroin users don't become addicts.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Your perespective on heroin is very slanted. I'm not trying to belittle it or claim that it's not a powerful drug or that it's not extremely easy to get addicted to it (I have an addictive personality, so I would never try it), but claiming that it's 1 in 1,000 who don't get addicted is not only completely absurd but defies all of the actual statistics published about this - it is my understanding that 70-80% of people who use heroin don't become addicted. Yes, that's right - shock horror - MOST heroin users don't become addicts.

You are right, around 23% of people who use heroin in America become properly dependent. I was more of referring to people who fall into a hole, but nevertheless I agree with your point. My figure wasn't trying to be official or anything, I just pulled it from the air based on personal experience. I'm not sure if the situation is different in the UK, and I can't find a figure. The closest figures I can find are that 0.2-0.3% of the entire population of the UK has tried heroin or crack (120,000-180,000), and that there are currently 280,000 problem drug users in the UK. These problem users clearly encompass normal cocaine use though. But I think it illustrates the difference over the pond.

In the UK the perception drug users and the general population take on heroin seems to be a bit different, over in America I have seen statistics that suggest a far higher amount of people use drugs of all kinds, especially heroin. I mean, most stats suggest around 2.4% of all American 12th Graders have ever tried heroin. The figures for 13 year olds are over 1%. In the UK whenever a 13 year old heroin user is found the papers go mad, if 1% of 13 year olds were using they'd be going mad. I don't know, maybe it just isn't a 'losers' drug in America?

 

[Cloudy]

I've been using opiates/opioids for the past 8 years with my addiction. I've been using oxy and hydrocodone primarily for those 8 years but have also been using heroin, tramadol, hydromorphone, codeine, opium, and kratom.

I've managed to keep my use low by limiting my access to those who sell, or can acquire opiates. Most of the time I can not get opiates when I want them. Its kinda like some psychedelics, I wont seem them come around on a steady basis, but will pick them up when they do. Money is also an issue as I'm also a full time student, so I don't have to much choice unless I want to drop out of college. Most of my friends don't touch 'hard' drugs, and only few touch them occasionally. So, really I'm the only one in my group of friends who indulges semi frequently.

 

[burn out]

I've been using heroin about twice a week for a few months, partially due to chronic pain associated with benzo withdrawal and partially because I like using drugs. I realize this is not a very long time to have been using but so far I have not had any problems arise from my use except the lost $.

I don't really fear dependence that much, if it happens someday I'll just suffer through withdrawal. Suffering is all my life consists of anyway (due to benzo withdrawal) opiate withdrawal sounds quite short lived in comparison.

 

[Legerity]

Any substance can potentially be used moderately or heavily. Some people may be more prone to use certain substances excessively, but this depends on the individual. Some are not particularly drawn to opiates.

Although I suppose those who are drawn to attempt to use heroin moderately must at least somewhat enjoy the effects, which puts them in a higher risk category for dependence compared to somebody who does not really like opiates in the first place.

IMO studying moderate users is a very good way of examining the factors involved in addiction, as opposed to looking at heavy users vs. non-users, for example.

 

[ebola?]

At this point, the discussion would have a better home in OD.

ebola

 

[NeuroPsyence]

It is really impossible for anyone to understand opiate addiction without having been through it. The same can be said of psychedelics...unless you have been there you just don't know.

It is certainly easier for most people to understand opioid addiction than psychedelic addiction because the reinforcing mechanisms of opioid dependence are not shared with psychedelics (at least of the serotonergic variety). I think that a person has to be exceptionally prone to psychological dependence and habit-forming behavior (and also have a consistent supply, of course) to truly become addicted to psychedelics.

That being said, there are people out there who claim that their dependence to serotonergic psychedelics is physical in nature, and I can't dispute that having not been there myself (although I am a very frequent user of psychedelics, so I can't help but think that if physical dependence does occur with prolonged use, I likely would have encountered it to some extent myself). Receptor downregulation does occur, of course, and this is what is mostly reponsible for feeling jaded and scattered upon discontinuation after long periods of daily use.

Psychedelic addiction is by no means as tough of a dependence to break as opioid addiction, if or no other reason that one does not experience the horrible symptoms that are associated with opioid withdrawal when withdrawing from psychedelics. Certainly an easier class of drug to maintain responsible patterns of use.

On topic: there are definitely people out there who have a good handle on responsibly managing their heroin use. I know a few myself. The trick, I have been told, is in setting strict limits on the frequency and quantity of one's consumption. Unfortunately, most users do lapse into addiction and dependence eventually, and my guess is that it would be difficult to find an adequately-sized group of long-term occasional users to study.