Opioids O-Desmethyltramadol

[muvolution]

I don't think it is water-soluble. I tried IV several times, and it just doesn't dissolve.

 

[Albion]

I don't think it is water-soluble. I tried IV several times, and it just doesn't dissolve.

Tried adding lemon?

 

[yoyo50]

Didn't get on with this, just made me sick alot with little to no effects.

 

[foolsgold]

first 3 times i had i loved it once i got roa right sniffing it makes your sight go daft . last gram was shit just made me ill

 

[knock]

I don't think it is water-soluble. I tried IV several times, and it just doesn't dissolve.

I dissolve some in plain (filtered) water every two or three nights (for plugging). 50mg will dissolve into 2-3ml no probs. I stir it... If I want to use less water, warm water works. Actually I pop it in the microwave for no more than 1 second as a matter of course. Warm water makes plugging unnoticeable.

True, it's less soluble than some chemicals but it's definitely soluble.

 

[muvolution]

I had bad luck, perhaps the benzyl alcohol as preservative in the bacteriostatic water? I can't really speculate... next time I will try some Vitamin C or citric acid (isn't that what they use in Europe) I will also try simple sterile water.

I wish I had eaten it... feels like a decent Oral BA, and i got a great buzz off 100mg. Def ordering more on payday.

 

[realxsalo]

apparently this stuff is over

 

[knock]

apparently this stuff is over

Care to expand on that? Without breaking any rules, of course.

 

[Albion]

Yeah, that's quite a statement to put out there. Any juicy news articles to blame?

 

[Kronos]

I don't think it is water-soluble. I tried IV several times, and it just doesn't dissolve.

I've iv'd it a few times and had no problem dissolving it in water

apparently this stuff is over

Not something you should be discussing on a public forum mate, but yeah theres some truth to it (for the time being). Plenty real stuff about though. god i could use some right now, this is probably my favorite opi! Pity my self controls shite so shouldnt go there ha.

 

[GeisterxFahrer]

I would not want to risk the seizure possibility with using O-desmethyltramadol, and besides; Tramadol itself molecularly similar to venlafaxine (Effexor) and has similar SNRI effects. I would just stick with a better opioid. I never got what was so great about Tramadol. I was prescribed it all the time a few years ago. it was just eh to me. To each their own though.

 

[knock]

I would not want to risk the seizure possibility with using O-desmethyltramadol, and besides; Tramadol itself molecularly similar to venlafaxine (Effexor) and has similar SNRI effects. I would just stick with a better opioid. I never got what was so great about Tramadol. I was prescribed it all the time a few years ago. it was just eh to me. To each their own though.

Seizure risk is reportedly negligible with O-Desmethyltramadol. It's not tramadol.

 

[scottishdnb]

What is the best route of administration for O-Desmethyltramadol? How much do I need to adjust dosage between insufflated and oral doses?

 

[muvolution]

if you check out my thread on BA, it looks like insufflated is 80 - 100% more effective than swallowed.

 

[negrogesic]

I was asked to give my input (^^^sorry about the delay; I must not have seen your PM), and despite nukes valid point about the inability to determine bioavailability through subjective reports (particularly given the questionable purity/legitimacy of RC's), I will provide my personal experiences as objectively as possible (an oxymoron of sorts, I know).

To preface, I have used, abused and self-assayed opioids extensively, encompassing virtually all classes of opioids, including rare and exotic opioids (for example, ketobemidone, dihydroetorphine, levorphanol, numerous fentanyls, etc, etc). I am also a moderately experienced clinician (speciality; anesthesiology, subspec; cardiothoracic anesthesiology - fellowship in progress), and given my field of work, am intimately familiar with the use of opioids in a clinical setting. That being said, I am not condoning the use of illicit opioids as a medical professional, nor am I suggesting that my personal experiences with tramadol M1 are in any way more or less valid than those experienced by others. Any information provided (by me or anyone else) should not be used as a benchmark for the purposes of dosage, but only as a heavily discounted point of reference.

My tolerance, it should be noted, is naturally high. The following experiences with tramadol M1 were carried out in the abcense of any on-going opioid use.

I am making some slight changes to the format given..

Tramadol, M1 (O-desmethyltramadol), in milligrams [sample obtained was of high purity and quality]

{Min - Max}

Oral | Intranasal | Rectal | IV/IM/SC |

40 - 700 20 - 80 N/A. 10 - 250 (IV only)


{Dose required for 'moderate' opioid intox}

I.e, significant miosis, moderate sedation (up to partial 'nod', not deep), euphoria/analgesia,
disorienting or other perceptual distrubances, dizziness, modest gait-ataxia, dysarthria, etc

Oral | Intranasal. |IV. |

~250 Not achieved; greater than 80 (poss suggesting a decent BA) ~50-90mg

{Heavy Intoxication}

Nearly total narcosis; sporadic and uncontrolled 'noding' (loss of consciousness), profound sedation,
merging in and out of a dream-like state, profound analgesia and euphoria, strong 'rush' (IV),
confusion/delirium, severe gait ataxia, pinpointed pupils, sub-anesthetic/overdose, dangerous

Oral | |IV|

500~700mg+ (not as heavy as desired) ~100-250mg (repeat intravenous dosing at 100mg per shot caused rapid tolerance increase)


Preferred dose and ROA: ~100mg IV per shot, re-administered every ~3-4hrs, or doses of 200-250mg once or twice for an evening

Please note, my intent was to achieve a state of profound intoxication, which is something quite different from what the average inexperienced or non-IV opioid user would want. In fact, the doses I find recreational would make such opioid users sick, uncomfortable, and could result in fatal overdose.


In regards to a drug that very roughly resembles tramadol M1 (in terms of qualitative and even, in a sense, quantitative properties) is meperidine. However, it is important to oncee again to note that no worthwhile quantitative estimation as to the drugs bioavailability can be made from the collective subjective reports of rather different individuals, using a compound that is being used for different end-goals, and one that is undoubtedly of questionable purity, quality and even identity/legitimacy .

 

[knock]

I've noticed over the last couple of months that lower doses have little, if any, sedative effect. If I plug, say, 35mg I end up dashing about doing housework and little jobs that I've been putting off, but dosing above about 50mg and while there is stimulation at the start it definitely ends up sedating. The low-dose stimulation is very pleasant and productive and comes with elevated mood.

Also interesting that despite regular use I do not seem to have built up much of a tolerance at all. I have tried to have at least one day off between doses although occasionally I've dosed three days running. Typically I am using smaller doses than I was when I started with this drug, and enjoying the low-dose warm, happy, "relaxed" stimulation.

 

[Albion]

I'd have to agree with you about reigning in the dosages and just enjoying this drug on a much milder level. Obviously I have issues with vomiting in large doses, but I find that a lower dose taken orally, and topped up throughout the day puts me in a very cosy place indeed! Pretty much anything becomes mildly interesting at worst and positively fascinating at best on o-dt. It's got that opiate 'mildly-amused-all-the-time' warmth to it.

Did you find yourself feeling quite rough the day after your three day binge? I have to say that even after one day of use, I feel slightly under the weather the following day. Surely W/Ds don't kick in that easily.

 

[Skyline_GTR]

Also interesting that despite regular use I do not seem to have built up much of a tolerance at all. I have tried to have at least one day off between doses although occasionally I've dosed three days running. Typically I am using smaller doses than I was when I started with this drug, and enjoying the low-dose warm, happy, "relaxed" stimulation.

I have to agree with this.. I've been what I think is walking the WD line and just staying on the right side.. It's pretty much alternative nights for me now - bottle of wine one night, 60mg-80mg oral ODT the other (I figure dropping from 70 units alcohol per week to 30-40 is an overall good step anyway)... dose hasnt escalated and on the odd occasion when I skip two days on the ODT, I don't feel any mild WD's. That said it is "walking that line".. occasionaly on a sunday as a hangover cure I'll dose from the morning and re-dose in the evening - this is the only time when I get a Tuesday mild withdrawal feeling, runny nose, feel mildly bad, also if I take ODT two days consecutively, I can get the same very mild WDs on the third day. This stuff is nice, but if you want to dose regularly then you have to walk the line, leaning just on the right side. I think 3 days on the trot, or dosing outside of just an evening context would push me over to the wrong side of that line. Key thing is not to escalate your dose and dose only with the frequency that faciltates that goal.

 

[knock]

I'd have to agree with you about reigning in the dosages and just enjoying this drug on a much milder level. Obviously I have issues with vomiting in large doses, but I find that a lower dose taken orally, and topped up throughout the day puts me in a very cosy place indeed! Pretty much anything becomes mildly interesting at worst and positively fascinating at best on o-dt. It's got that opiate 'mildly-amused-all-the-time' warmth to it.

Did you find yourself feeling quite rough the day after your three day binge? I have to say that even after one day of use, I feel slightly under the weather the following day. Surely W/Ds don't kick in that easily.

Your use sounds a bit different to mine - you don't mention doses but in terms of redoses and start time. I very rarely take any drugs before evening. The main exception is AMT due to the long come-up and duration, which I might take in the afternoon; but AMT is once a month, or even two months. The other exception is if an all-nighter carries on into the next day, which these days is less often than it once was - once a month or so.

Typically I will dose o-dt in the evening on Monday, Wednesday, Friday and maybe Saturday or Sunday. During the week I will dose once only, say 35mg at 7pm. On the weekend I may up the dose to 50mg and have a redose (If I dose on a Sunday, it's one dose only). Also at the weekend I will combine it with maybe 35-45mg MXE and maybe some ketamine (of which I have dwindled stocks ) On a Saturday I might just take a bigger dose of MXE with, or followed by, some ket or if I'm meeting people it will be MDMA and maybe ket and/or MPA. Of course I am usually drinking some booze, but usually much less than if I was otherwise sober. Haven't had a hangover for while thanks to the range of drugs in my drugbox. If I've been on stimulants then 1 or 2mg Etizolam will be used at the end of the night.

A three day o-dt binge for me consists of dosing up to 100mg on all of Friday, Saturday and Sunday evenings (or something like that). So I think for many people that would be a quiet weekend; but I am quite determined that my drug use will be relatively problem free. Also I'm working at the moment which tends to impose some (welcome!) restrictions. If I wasn't working I can see how things might be different, but I would try to fill my time with more variety rather than more of the same.

The worst W/Ds I've felt after too many o-dt days on-the-trot is the spread of my restless leg syndrome into the rest of my body, this just makes me even more fidgety than I already am. I haven't noticed any other negative effects. When I am on o-dt, I am relieved from the restless legs, but to be honest any drug helps a bit, including alcohol and MXE; o-dt is the best though.

[edit: forgot to say, I like the o-dt abbreviation! fairly unambiguous.]

 

[knock]

I have to agree with this.. I've been what I think is walking the WD line and just staying on the right side.. It's pretty much alternative nights for me now - bottle of wine one night, 60mg-80mg oral ODT the other (I figure dropping from 70 units alcohol per week to 30-40 is an overall good step anyway)... dose hasnt escalated and on the odd occasion when I skip two days on the ODT, I don't feel any mild WD's. That said it is "walking that line".. occasionaly on a sunday as a hangover cure I'll dose from the morning and re-dose in the evening - this is the only time when I get a Tuesday mild withdrawal feeling, runny nose, feel mildly bad, also if I take ODT two days consecutively, I can get the same very mild WDs on the third day. This stuff is nice, but if you want to dose regularly then you have to walk the line, leaning just on the right side. I think 3 days on the trot, or dosing outside of just an evening context would push me over to the wrong side of that line. Key thing is not to escalate your dose and dose only with the frequency that faciltates that goal.

Sounds like you're doing something quite similar to me, I have cut down hugely on my drink intake now there are some decent non-stimulant RCs available to me. I still drink most nights, but much less, and even less when I'm otherwised altered, maybe 2/3 of a bottle of wine or two or three whiskies on booze-only nights and one or two glasses of either when I'm otherwise altered. Feel much healthier - used to go to bed with a scary dull ache in my abdomen every fucking night, not felt that for a few months! Still have the occasional binge, but I've kind of lost interest in getting properly drunk.